Taranaki, this thread is for you!

[ASTAutoSales]

I have been aiming to ask you this question in other threads but anticipating your responsei decided it my need its own.

Why is it that you completely go against anything the US is for. You feel the need to verbally attack its policies, beliefs, plans, religion, citizens, etc.....

is there some underlying story from your childhood you want to keep ffrom surfacing by blinding your memory from these thoughts or do you actually believe that the United States is hell on Earth and our president is the devil?

Feel free to verbally attack me as you do any other red blooded american making a statement but i want to know what makes your clock tick.

P.S. by definition and reputation i AM a redneck so throw something else out there as your first insult

Also, i dont have any bad feelings toward you and i am not trying to start i war here but i just dont know why you absolutley hate the US

[-Josh-]

I dont think he hates the U.S., just it's current state of affairs, as do a lot of people around the globe and in our own country.

[TexasF355F1]

*peeks in, reads and now avoiding thread like the plague*

[Flatrater]

Maybe this should of been addressed via PM. I won't lock the topic since I am sure Naki will want to answer you.

[ASTAutoSales]

i figured it would be a lengthy and time consuming PM on both parts and also would like input from others to see if i am out of line or they agree with me.
I have never had an educated discussion with any person that disagrees with anything to do with the US. I have had many but they were close minded and immature.

[taranaki]

Sorry buddy, you have picked up the stick by completely the wrong end.I've already spelled it out in letters ten feet high, but I'll do it again for you.

I don't hate America.I dont hate the things that you have listed.Most of what happens inside the USis of little or no consequense to me.

I hate war, and I particularly hate war for financial and strategic advantage dressed up as some mixture as brave self-defence and a desire to see freedom in other parts of the world.It's a lie,and the chief liar is the thing that I despise most.

Yes sir, as far as I am concerned, your president is a lying cunt who's not fit to kiss my boots.If he were to be assassinated today, I would breathe a sigh of relief for America and the world.Not since Hitler has one man succeeded in dividing the world so effectively,and all for the same reasons....the unshakeable belief that his view is right, and only his view is right.

If Bush were to die, America would be free.You may not like my opinion, but there it is.America is a great nation being dragged backwards by a liar.

[ASTAutoSales]

ok, that i agree with. bush should be avoided like the plaque. if you know anything about american politics, Hillary Clinton (Presidents wife, And Condelezza Rice are getting things started to run for the presidency in 08. But i do completely disagree with you where you stated how our military are more of a coward then terorists. 75% of our military is under the age of 23 and they believe in our country and their stance on certain subjects. within the country bush has the lowest rating since the depression and it drops by the day. our military as a whole does not belive in bush as they do belive in our country. thats why they are willing to sacrifice their life so another country may one day enjoy the freedoms we do such as calling our president anything we want. show me one iraqi who would hold a sign showing Saddam Hussein with devil horns. and show me one that would have done that 6 months ago.

[lazysmurff]

correction buddy, condi rice will never be president, and while Mrs. clinton may very well be, i certainly hope not.

and just to jump in on a convo that i really should have no part in...

it has nothing to do with our military. they are doing their job. its something they signed up to do. the president is their commander and chief, and whether they agree with him or not, they volunteered to do his bidding.

this does have to do with that president and his administration, which has continually done things that disgrace the very things they claim they stand for (freedom, independance, conservativism etc). its shameful. every foreign exchange student at my school is simply aghast that we would reelect someone with the worst presidential record in history. but we did, and frankly, im ashamed.

to wrap it up, cuz otherwise ill ramble on and on, im going to use the wisdom of a bumber sticker:

"i dont have to like Bush to love America"

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by taranaki

I hate war, and I particularly hate war for financial and strategic advantage dressed up as some mixture as brave self-defence and a desire to see freedom in other parts of the world.

I don't think there is one of us that likes war but do you agree that sometimes war is the only choice? I'm not talking about Iraq either if it was right or wrong. If I were Bush I would of had Sadam assassinated because it would of been better than movie the army half way around the world but that's not the point. Anyway, in WW2 the U.S. tried to stay out and the longer they stayed out the worst things got. Finally they were attacked and once they entered the war things were able to turn around and be fixed.

Originally Posted by taranaki

Yes sir, as far as I am concerned, your president is a lying cunt who's not fit to kiss my boots.If he were to be assassinated today, I would breathe a sigh of relief for America and the world.

Isn't that a little out of line? You may not like him but wishing for anybody to die is a little un-called for. What if Iraq had never of happened, would you want him dead then? He did make a mistake in Iraq that didn't make a whole lot of people happy, but is he really the spawn of satan as you say?

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by ASTAutoSales

ok, that i agree with. bush should be avoided like the plaque. if you know anything about american politics, Hillary Clinton (Presidents wife, And Condelezza Rice are getting things started to run for the presidency in 08. But i do completely disagree with you where you stated how our military are more of a coward then terorists. 75% of our military is under the age of 23 and they believe in our country and their stance on certain subjects. within the country bush has the lowest rating since the depression and it drops by the day. our military as a whole does not belive in bush as they do belive in our country. thats why they are willing to sacrifice their life so another country may one day enjoy the freedoms we do such as calling our president anything we want. show me one iraqi who would hold a sign showing Saddam Hussein with devil horns. and show me one that would have done that 6 months ago.

I love the way that some people can turn a statement on its head, ignore specific qualifiers and come out with completely the wrong interpretation of thingsWhy do people insist on expanding things beyond what is said?
If I say that I hate Bush, you ask me why I hate America.
If I say that bombing requires less bravery than flying a plane into a building, it becomes............you stated how our military are more of a coward then terorists.

If you wish to engage me in debate,please read what I have written, and try to understand it.Don't be like some of the idiots here who think that they know my position and make up their own arguments on the basis of false assumptions.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

I don't think there is one of us that likes war but do you agree that sometimes war is the only choice? I'm not talking about Iraq either if it was right or wrong. If I were Bush I would of had Sadam assassinated because it would of been better than movie the army half way around the world but that's not the point. Anyway, in WW2 the U.S. tried to stay out and the longer they stayed out the worst things got. Finally they were attacked and once they entered the war things were able to turn around and be fixed.

Your version of WW2 is somewhat twisted.The U.S. took the position that armed neutrality was the politically safe and financially advantageous way to proceed.The Government of the day didn't give a damn if the ir allies got screwed, as long as they didn't have to fight.It wouldn't have mattered if Hitler had exterminated every Jew,gypsy,and cripple in Europe, as long as he didn't interfere with the American lifestyle.

There is a time when war is the only choice.That time is when the enemy comes looking for you,or someone that you care about.Iraq never came looking for the US, neither did they have the intent or the capability.They just happen to have strategically significant oil reserves, and a leader who Bush says 'tried to kill my Daddy'.

Isn't that a little out of line? You may not like him but wishing for anybody to die is a little un-called for. What if Iraq had never of happened, would you want him dead then? He did make a mistake in Iraq that didn't make a whole lot of people happy, but is he really the spawn of satan as you say?

If Bush can send 1400 Marines to die, and slaughter countless thousands of Iraqis,knowing fullwell that the world does not believe his claims about WMD to be true, the world is better off with him being dragged through the streets behind a truck.He's scum.Iraq happened because Bush wanted it to.There were two presidents before him who could have used exactly the same strategy to steal Iraq, but fortunately they both had the good sense and the humanity not to try.

[TankMMC]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

I don't think there is one of us that likes war but do you agree that sometimes war is the only choice? I'm not talking about Iraq either if it was right or wrong. If I were Bush I would of had Sadam assassinated because it would of been better than movie the army half way around the world but that's not the point. Anyway, in WW2 the U.S. tried to stay out and the longer they stayed out the worst things got. Finally they were attacked and once they entered the war things were able to turn around and be fixed.

Isn't assasination a quintessential act of terrorism?

Not to mention the fact that assasination of Saddam would have accomplished absolutely nothing. Just like assasinating Bush won't make America "free". The "leaders" such as Saddam (and Bush) are public figures who represent the interests of hundreds, and act in their interests. If the puppet is removed another would be put in place. The entire structure has to be rooted out and even then it takes several decades for a full change of government...

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Your version of WW2 is somewhat twisted.

How so?

Originally Posted by taranaki

The U.S. took the position that armed neutrality was the politically safe and financially advantageous way to proceed.The Government of the day didn't give a damn if the ir allies got screwed, as long as they didn't have to fight.It wouldn't have mattered if Hitler had exterminated every Jew,gypsy,and cripple in Europe, as long as he didn't interfere with the American lifestyle.

Bingo! The U.S. government or the people didn't want anything to do with Europe because it wasn't affecting them. Hitler was Europe's, and Europe's alone problem to us and that turned out to come around and bite us in the butt.

Originally Posted by taranaki

There is a time when war is the only choice.That time is when the enemy comes looking for you,or someone that you care about.

Well if somebody bombs you and you're neutral and another country declares war on you because of that I say that's a good reason to go to war.

[lazysmurff]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

How so?

not necessariy twisted...but overly simplified. and the analogy to iraq is about as ridiculous as any analogy of bush and hitler.

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Bingo! The U.S. government or the people didn't want anything to do with Europe because it wasn't affecting them. Hitler was Europe's, and Europe's alone problem to us and that turned out to come around and bite us in the butt.

it was japan that attacked us, no? sorry, i know what you're getting at, but i had to take the stab. our official position was to not get involved until attacked. so when we found out japan was going to attack us, we didnt do a whole lot about it, and let it happen so we could go to war. we were just biding our time, not actually trying to sit the war out. dont think politicians are that niave...if they were, they wouldnt be politicians

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Well if somebody bombs you and you're neutral and another country declares war on you because of that I say that's a good reason to go to war.

i think he would too...im pretty sure getting bombed counts as the enemy coming after you.

[Tehvisseeus]

Originally Posted by taranaki

If Bush can send 1400 Marines to die, and slaughter countless thousands of Iraqis,knowing fullwell that the world does not believe his claims about WMD to be true, the world is better off with him being dragged through the streets behind a truck.He's scum

Umm as far as I know the entire world believed Saddam had weapons. Of course I was really young back then so I could be wrong.