Wouldn't It Be Great

[Popeye2]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

To Israel and the Palestinian Authority. Yo, boys. Work out a peace deal
now. Just note that Camp David is closed. Maybe all of you can go to Russia for negotiations. They have some great palaces there. Big tables, too.

Hey Flatrater, Thanx ! nicely written !

BTW, we can talk about soccer, as long as it's not in the same sentence as the word "SPORT" JMO !

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

ANY kind of state sponsorship?

This issue is not quite so simple. State sponsored health care and post secondary education benefits society as a whole as well as the individual. Therefore society should pay a reasonable portion of it.

Education: More and better educated people produces a more competitive, productive and effieicient work force. That nations economy is more competitive and is able to compete better in a global economy. This means more money, more jobs, more prosperity - and more tax dollars to help pay for that post secondary education.

Why should society pay for it? You obviously know why its needed, and I'm not suggesting that it not be suported. I am saying that the government should not collect taxes for them. It should not dictate the curriculum that they teach. Most people who graduate are generous to their alma matter. Leave more money in their pockets, and you might be surprised at how much more the schools take in.

There are many nations around the world whose primary resource is the education and skill of their workforce. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan come to mind. They have few natural resources but very prosporous economies, in part due to the efforts of the state to educate the workforce.

Its all true. However, you may notice that the US is still far and away the most successful economy in the world.

Finally, better educated people are less likely to turn to a life of crime, since more economic options are available to them. As your country has a significantly higher crime rate per capita than any other industrialised nation, perhaps this is something that more Americans should consider.

You don't get any arguement from me on the importance of an education. The arguement is where the funding comes from. When an organization gets tax revenues, they are also getting some price controls. Price controls drive up costs - all the time.

Health: Well, you must be healthy and have insurance or you would not feel this way.

What would you do if you lost your health insurance, and had a dabilitaing and expensive disease. Would you sell your house? Okay, after your house is gone, your savings are gone, yopur relatives are not able to lend/give you money, what would you do. Die homeless in the street.

This is not far fetched. Millions of Americans have no health insurance, and are just one big medical bill away from being destitute.

There is a big difference between not having health insurance and not receiving health care. Your right that there are millions without insurance - are there millions dieing penniless in the streets? Of course there isn't. Health care is not a right. Its a service. Its one that people should consider very important. So important in fact, that they work hard to either afford it or get a job that provides it.

I do not suffer lazy fools who skip through life so they can suck off those of us who work our asses off. Their choices led them to where they are. I support charity work that helps those that are looking for it, but no handouts to freeloaders.

Society suffers too, if millions cannot get decent medical care. Parts of the workforce die prematurely or cannot work due to disability. People sell homes and businesses to pay the medical bills, and end up being welfare cases. Or they die and their workforce skills are lost to society forever.

Lets see if I can get this old saying right. If, ifs and buts where candy and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day. Playing the what if game can lead to any conclusion you want to make. The reality is that people don't plan or prepare for their own well being. Its not societies job to pick up their slack.

Since the state benefits, the state should pay, not necessarily all the bills but a reasonable portion.

This is what we elect governments to do. The alternative is no government at all; total anarchy.

There is no "reasonable portion". Either you pay for what goods you get or you don't.

I don't suggest that there is no government. Immigration, national defense, justice system, environmental policy are just a few places where its needed. It does not belong in the pocket books of the country though. Things like social security need to go. HUD needs to go. The IRS needs to go (no income taxes - only use taxes).

I agree with you to a certain extent. However, just because there is possibility for future abuse of government policies does not mean those policies should be excluded altogether.

It is flawed to assume a government will take a policy to extremes. Virtually all reasonable, democratic governments recognise reasonable limits in their policies.

If they exceed these limits (by, say, a wasteful expensive invasion of another soverign nation) they will not be re-elected.

Not likely. The way 99% of politicians stay in power is that they promise to spend more money on their constituants. They never say where they're going to get the money but they make the promises. The Big Dig in Boston is 15 BILLION dollars over budget (started at 4 billion so its way the hell over). Why is there no uproar in Boston? Because Kennedy worked an amendment into a bill that he knew that would pass so that the country as a whole picked up the slack. Shit like that happens all the time. Has he been bounced? Obviously not. Unless I move to Massachusetts, there is nothing I can do about it either.


I am not a communisit or socialist. I do not believe its societies responsibility to take care of everyone from the cradle to the grave. I feel its my responsibility to take care of me, my family and anyone else that I feel needs my help. I do not want the government dictating who gets what and how much. I do not want the government taking money from my income - burdening me on the work that I'm doing. The federal, state and local governments take in over 3 TRILLION dollars in tax money right now. I do not think they need another half TRILLION more to ruin health care.