Which is a faster car?

[HiFlow5 0]

I'm sorry, stock for stock a auto will always be second! The converters are too tight for any type of performance, they can't get a decent launch like dumping a clutch can, the shifts are lazy without a shift kit, and unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.

[GTStang]

Originally Posted by HiFlow5 0

I'm sorry, stock for stock a auto will always be second! The converters are too tight for any type of performance, they can't get a decent launch like dumping a clutch can, the shifts are lazy without a shift kit, and unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.

[FormulaLT1]

Originally Posted by HiFlow5 0

I'm sorry, stock for stock a auto will always be second! The converters are too tight for any type of performance, they can't get a decent launch like dumping a clutch can, the shifts are lazy without a shift kit, and unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.

While I will agree this is the case on Mustangs, It is not the case on every car with a auto Tranny.

[HiFlow5 0]

I'm not too sure of that. Take any car, same exact make and model. One with the auto option, other with the manual option as the only differences. I'm just about sure the manual has the advantage everytime, for a multiple of reasons.

[FormulaLT1]

I will make a vid of my car showing shift point and while I do have a Torque convertor and shift kit. My shift points are not altered from what the tranny did originally which was bring the car up to redline before engaging the next gear in WOT situations and I know of plenty of stock cars stick vs Auto races with same type of car where the auto walked the stick and while I do agree at some point eventually a stick no matter what car will end up winning I don't believe all cars stick has advantage hands down. As for launching if you hold an auto in place with the brake while gently applying pressure to gas pedal to raise your rpm's for a launch while being careful not to break the wheels loose you will jump on the manuals everytime cause if the manual just drops the clutch he's going to spin and if he drops too low your already ahead

[FormulaLT1]

Originally Posted by HiFlow5 0

unless your manual shifting your auto, chances are the auto is shifting at too low an rpm to race anyway.

I made the Vid if you want to see it give me your email.

[GTStang]

Originally Posted by FormulaLT1

I will make a vid of my car showing shift point and while I do have a Torque convertor and shift kit. My shift points are not altered from what the tranny did originally which was bring the car up to redline before engaging the next gear in WOT situations and I know of plenty of stock cars stick vs Auto races with same type of car where the auto walked the stick and while I do agree at some point eventually a stick no matter what car will end up winning I don't believe all cars stick has advantage hands down. As for launching if you hold an auto in place with the brake while gently applying pressure to gas pedal to raise your rpm's for a launch while being careful not to break the wheels loose you will jump on the manuals everytime cause if the manual just drops the clutch he's going to spin and if he drops too low your already ahead

The shift points may not be altered but the speed and firmness of the shifts have and if they haven't then I would be screaming for my money back.

[FormulaLT1]

I did test drives on alot of Camaro & Firebird (most of them are auto's) and while my take off and shift firmness are not in question because ofcourse they are better, my point about not having to manually shift your car to get it to rev high is the point I'm trying to make. But stock 4L60-e's in general are programmed to shift firmer during spirited driving.

[HiFlow5 0]

As for launching if you hold an auto in place with the brake while gently applying pressure to gas pedal to raise your rpm's for a launch while being careful not to break the wheels loose you will jump on the manuals everytime

You also have to remember that stock autos have very tight torque converters, so power braking is good to a point till it stalls out and wants to grab, usually at a very low rpm.

[DkShadow]

My auto shifts right at 6000rpms. Doesnt miss a beat unless I let off the gas.

[DkShadow]

Originally Posted by HiFlow5 0

You also have to remember that stock autos have very tight torque converters, so power braking is good to a point till it stalls out and wants to grab, usually at a very low rpm.

I usually find it better just launching off idle.

[HiFlow5 0]

Originally Posted by DkShadow

I usually find it better just launching off idle.

Yeah, flashing the converter usually is better and will net a higher stall speed, even on a stock converter.

[FormulaLT1]

Originally Posted by HiFlow5 0

You also have to remember that stock autos have very tight torque converters, so power braking is good to a point till it stalls out and wants to grab, usually at a very low rpm.

Good point but your also talking about cars with lots of low end torque so if I take off full throttle after anything above say 2000 -2500 Rpm's I'm going to be spinning all day same thing with a 6 speed

[FormulaLT1]

Originally Posted by DkShadow

I usually find it better just launching off idle.

Really depends on what gears you have which one works better

[DVS LT1]

Automatic Firebirds and TransAms were known back in the day to be just a bit faster in the quarter than the six speeds. Most (if not all I think) had a performance shift button that served to increase the shift RPM's, provide firmer shifts, and allow for quicker downshifts. In this case I think it was usually a 4-speed 3.23 option (MAYBE 2.73) vs. a 6-speed 3.42.

Yet I'd agree with HiFlow that with most cars the manual can be driven faster than its auto twin. It all has to do with gearing. But if you could figure out a gear arrangement that would see a factory 4 speed and 6 speed shift at the same engine RPM's and Mph (for the first 4 gears anyways), the auto would beat most of the people. Only an M6 dude who really knows what he's doing would be able to outshift the auto.

Sometimes a taller gear can be an advantage (obviously if YOU can't drive stick! ) because in a 1/4mile you typically have 1 less shift than the manual car. The auto is not only wasting less time shifting, but the manual driver has more opportunities to screw up. I've seen it happen so often (usually at a Mustang's expense - OK sorry guys ) where I take off at a green light with another guy on my way to more or less a 2-gear 1/4mile, and it just baffles the other driver to the point where they start messing up shifts looking for gears they don't even have.

Then again, a very tall geared automatic is in shit if its up against a very short geared manual car. In the case of the factory 4 & 6 speed Firebirds, it wasn't a huge difference - pretty much even. But you try pitting a 300HP 2.73 LT1 up against a 260HP 3.73 or 4.11 GT and it will matter a heck of a lot more because the GT will not only be making more torque than with the stock gears, but even the not-so-greatest manual driver will be able to get that car moving easier because the power is on a silver platter.

If those GT's came with the 3.55 axle option like the Mach1 and it was up against a 2.73 LT1, a good driver would be able to take the older F-Body.