351 heads on a 289 (or 302)

[Mercracer]

Originally Posted by rerun

does anyone know what exactly has to be done to get a 351W heads to fit on a 289 or 302? I know that the bolt holes have to be made smaller, is there anything else?

As was mentioned, you can just bolt on a 351W head to a 289/302. You can use the stepped bolts or washers, but Ford themselves did not use them on the 96 Explorer motors which used GT-40 heads. All GT-40 (not P) heads had 1/2" bolt holes. The only special step is to make sure that the head and block steam holes match and if not, drill a small hole. This is an issue when mixing different year (early and late) heads and blocks.
My question to you is....."Why bother?
The early 351W head was only nominally better when bolted onto a 289/302 than what the factory heads were. The 351W has larger valves and a larger intake port, but the stock 289 head aven with the smaller valve actually could outflow a 351W head because of the smog bump in the 351 head. By the time you recondition a set of 351W heads, you could have just bought a set of GT-40(P) heads. Either style of GT-40 head will spank any other factory 351W head and put it to shame because of the excellent flow on both the exhaust and intake. These can be found for between $300 and $500 and often times can be just cleaned up and bolted down. They come with hardened seats from the factory. They were used on Ford Explorers, so they are plentiful and easy to find. The GT-40 head was used in 96 only on the Explorer, but it was also used on the Lightning pickup and Mustang Cobra (93-95) The P head was used from 97 up on the 5.0 Powered Explorer.

[Mercracer]

Originally Posted by GTStang

Next 351C heads will most definetly bolt to a 289/302(Boss 302). Although the heads requires some maching. Also the intake manifold is solved through one a Boss 302 intake manifold cause a Boss 302 head and a Cleveland are the same casting. Second most common now is intake manifold spacers. Or third maching of a 351C intake manifold. No one bothers to do any of these much n e more because of the plethura of small block Ford aftermarket heads available and can be done cheaper overall.

I have never heard of machining a 351C intake to fit a 302 block. I am not saying that it is absolutely impossible, but that would be a lot of cost time and effort to fit a dry intake to a wet intake engine, and the huge missmatch would still require some type of plates to be added.
Regarding the spacers, the only spacers I am aware of anyone marketing were to fit 351C heads on a 289/302 block using a standard 302 intake.
Neither of these would make sense since original Boss 302 intakes are still able to be found (I recently bought one on E-Bay for $150) and Bush Performance (producer of the intakes previously made by B&A) in addition to Price Motorsports both make intakes for this application as well as others.
Remember, it takes a Victor Jr. head to outperform a factory Cleveland 4V head even with the bad rap they get for the poor mixture velocity through the oversized ports.

[GTStang]

The 4V design is ok but the heads that were produced back in the day are overated and only worth the money people desire for the to a restorer. Cleveland 4V are shitty heads on the street the don't make enough torque. If I want a full race head I can but a windsor head that will outperform a 4V or a Cleveland 4V race head that will kill the factory ones all for a similiar price.
So although a Cleveland 4V might outperform in the upper RPM range it is sluggish in the low to mid-range area. So it makes a crappy street/strip head. Just like a Vic jr is a shitty street/strip head.

[Mercracer]

Originally Posted by GTStang

If I want a full race head I can but a windsor head that will outperform a 4V or a Cleveland 4V race head that will kill the factory ones all for a similiar price.
So although a Cleveland 4V might outperform in the upper RPM range it is sluggish in the low to mid-range area. So it makes a crappy street/strip head. Just like a Vic jr is a shitty street/strip head.

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Sorry this is so long, but the Cleveland 4V heads have been getting a bad rap lately by people who either never ran them or have forgotten how quick the serious cars were that ran them in the day.
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I suppose if your definition of a good street/strip head includes good fuel economy and a 600RPM idle, and you are afraid to drive around a street car with biger than 3.73 gears, then you have a point.
If you have a street car that you occasionally drive to the strip or are happy with bracket racing a 12/13 second car, then you have a point.
My family car (Grand Marquis) came from the factory with 3.55 gears and dual exhaust. My cruising car has 4.10's. One of our street/strip cars currently has 4.33's and is going to get 4.56's this year. It is all in what your goals are and what your cooooshy ride expectations are for your street/strip car.
No one in their right mind would run Cleveland heads or Vic Jr heads without a loose converter, more gear or both. I ran my 91 Mustang year round including Wisconsin winters with 4.10 gears and a 4200RPM stall converter.
I have a low 11 second and I hang around guys with 9 & 10 second street/strip cars. Worrying about less torque from idle to 3500RPM's is not in the game plan.
Price is where your best point is made, although any race aftermarket Cleveland head is twice as expensive as a race Windsor head, and 3X the cost of a budget factory 4V Cleveland head. You have to run a piston designed for the canted valves when you bolt on any Cleveland head. You have to run a piston with large reliefs when you run a Vic
Jr head. The intakes are more expensive for a Clevor application. Headers are much more expensive for a Cleveland head in an application that did not originally use them. The accessory brackets do not directly bolt onto a Cleveland head from a Windsor design head.
You can run 10's with a 302 and GT-40 heads on a power adder on a factory short block. You can run 11's with a 302 and a set of mild aftermarket aluminum heads on a factory short block.
To sum up my point and to add a bit more, the Cleveland heads look cooler on an engine. They are not the cheapest head to run, and are not for the faint of heart. They work much better on a 351 than a 302.
But, if you want to run them and are willing to spend the extra effort and money, they can get the job done rather well.
There is a reason that they are banned from nearly every heads up class in the NMRA, FFW, and the World Ford Challenge.

[GTStang]

Street/Strip is a rather vague term I admit but if you drive ya car on the weekends here and there. Try to stay off the highway and the longest trip you make is to ya local dragstrip.... You've gone more to the strip part of the term. Having a motor that can spin to the moon and needs to be dropped a 3,000+ rpm's to show what it can do is not my idea of a fun street car. I can run high 10's have good power below 3,000rpm's run 3.73s in my car. So I wasn't stuck at bracket racing 13's. Bottom line is there is more than one way to do things. I just feel 4V Clevelands aren't for the masses.

[Mercracer]

Originally Posted by GTStang

Bottom line is there is more than one way to do things. I just feel 4V Clevelands aren't for the masses.

I agree with that. The availability is relatively low compared to other heads which will get the job done.
I merely responded to the statement of Cleveland 4V's being shitty heads on the street.