Gay? Whats it all about?

[Parmenides3]

Thus far, one thing sorely lacking from this thread has been a respect for human persons who may suffer from a homosexual orientation. When I was in high school, I had many teachers who were homosexual, and all but one of them were thoroughly miserable. They weren't miserable because others oppressed them, or because others made no effort to extend compassion towards them. Actually, in my high school, they were the empowered faction (which is one reason why, on the whole, I hated my school...not that homosexual persons were present in the faculty, but that the faculty was far more interested in politics than in education). They were miserable because they could not achieve what they wanted in life, which was real, substantial harmony with another human person. A homosexual orientation can arise from a number of causes, and why a particular cause affects a particular person is a complete mystery. I have even ministered to people who are not homosexual but who live an active homosexual life because they feel accepted among gays. Orientation relates to emotions, and emotions are not a matter of responsibility. Feelings come and go, and no one is judged for their feelings. But to pick up on another response in this thread, actions are a matter of responsibility. A person suffering from a homosexual orientation must not act out their feelings, any more that a heterosexual person should act out the selfish inclinations within them. Whatever the cause may be, a homosexual orientation "lacks an intrinsic finality," which means that it has no purposefulness to it. It is frustrated in its inability to achieve a goal because it has no goal, it leads no where. A homosexual person is called to perpetual sexual continence, because the sexual feelings they experience are not ordered to the harmony of complementary persons nor to the procreation of human life. When I address a homosexual, I am not permitted a smug air of superiority, just because I do not share that particular struggle. But my celibacy is a sign to both heterosexuals and homosexuals alike that abstinence does not result in death. For married persons, single persons, and persons who must remain single because their orientation does not correspond to the complementarity of the sexes, my celibacy is a sign that there is a more romantic way to live than simply acting out what one feels.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Parmenides3

Thus far, one thing sorely lacking from this thread has been a respect for human persons who may suffer from a homosexual orientation.

Pardon me,but nobody 'suffers' from homosexuality.It's not a disease.I don't feel the urge to sympathise with anyone on the basis of their choices in sexuality.As far as I can tell,the nerve endings in the sex organs can be stimulated in any number of ways.What is NOT normal is making a concious decision to avoid stimulating them altogether.

[Parmenides3]

Ok, so we disagree. Fair enough.

I think someone can be happy in perpetual abstinence, partly because I have freely made the committment to do so, and I enjoy my life thoroughly.

You suggest that people who are not engaging in sex regularly or at all are living unnatural lives.Here's an argument you might enjoy responding to.

I define "chastity" as subjecting our romantic passions to reason. Sometimes we have to take what we feel and subject it to what we think. In this, we live authentically human lives. It seems to be the case that in the history of every romantic relationship that there are times when engaging in intercourse is more or less reasonable. Couples who want to grow in love for each other often find it necessary to do something about the selfishness that creeps so easily into a relationship. One of the most effective ways to drive selfishness out of a relationship is to refrain from sex for a while.

A couple who disciplines their love in this way discovers a rich development in the quality of their love. The passions they feel become channelled into the stuff of their daily lives. The smallest chores and gestures of kindness take on enormous meaning and beauty; and the "have to do" list becomes the "ways to show and build love" list. Many couples find themselves in health problems which rule out intercourse (diabetes, heart problems, etc.). It's pretty much the universal case that age or infirmity or loss of interest will interrupt a couple's physical relationship eventually. Hopefully, all the while, everything else the two people do is being transformed into an even greater love. It is very common for couples whose physical relationship is interrupted while they are still young to enjoy an enviable quality of love.

If this is the case for an ordinary couple, then what might it mean for someone who freely chooses to remain celibate for the sake of serving others? The idea behind celibacy (and there of plenty of people who are celibate by choice, irrespective of any religious interest) is that I have more hours to give to others, and I'm keenly interested in the well being of others because I have freely made that concern my whole life. Celibacy is a way of loving others.

By the way, I spent part of my morning listening carefully to yet another wonderful person struggling with feelings of homosexual attraction. You might say this person is confused and should follow what they feel, no matter what they feel. This person spoke of a struggle.

I have to say, I think it's a good thing that there is a place in this excellent automotive forum to discuss other things that are important.

Peace be with you. Parmenides3

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Parmenides3

Couples who want to grow in love for each other often find it necessary to do something about the selfishness that creeps so easily into a relationship. One of the most effective ways to drive selfishness out of a relationship is to refrain from sex for a while.

In other relationships,the decision to 'refrain from sex for a while' is in no way mutual.It becomes a symptom of selfishness on the part of both partners,rather than a cure for it.

As to the idea of struggling over feelings of homosexual attraction,I'd venture that if people stopped telling each other that certain feelings are forbidden,and that they should feel guilty about them,it would be much easier for those who face the possibility that they are in a minority group to examine their feelings dispassionately and decide for themselves what is best for them.

[Parmenides3]

Yes, the use of abstinence as a tool of selfishness is a bad thing. Again, I was describing a particular observed reality of something that works for couples I have known.

As for what begets happiness in human beings, you seem to anchor everything in the individual person and their preferences. I suggest that there is something real and universal about humanity which precedes our preferences, and is not a matter of one group telling another group what to value.

As always, you have my respect, even as we disagree. Parmenides3

[taranaki]

Your coherent train of thought is refreshing.You have my respect as a worthy debating adversary.

[DevoutWankelist]

Well, I dont know if this info has been posted yet, because there is now way im reading all 6 pages after just having seen it. So... I saw a program on the Discovery channel that examined why people were homosexual, and they came to the following conclusion, according to them people are not so by choice, but by maldevelopment, when the infant is devoloping in utero, the brain for a male or a female develop in different ways, and the what causes someone to be a homosexual in life is when for some reason their body and mind do not develop as one of the same sex. So while a homosexual man is physically male, he is mentally a female. So I find it kind of hard to not accept people on homosexual relationships. ie. Two gay men in a relationship are really two women in the bodies of men who are attracted physically to men due tue their nature.

[il_3abee6]

there was another program on the discovery channel about homosexuals maybe it was the same 1 u were watching.......... but there r 2 ways some 1 can be homosexual 1) the way u sed 2) the thingsa child is exposed to while the brain is developing theyre both the same thing they just happen at different stages