political prisoners in Guantanamo Bay face secret 'trial',execution

[freakray]

Originally posted by taranaki


Guantanamo Bay and the filthy politics surrounding it are becoming an embarrasing stain on the record of a country which presents itself as a guardian of freedom and democracy.There can be no justification for the continued detention of prisoners of war,and there can be no justification for holding any alleged offenders of any other category under these conditions.If America wants to invade countries on the pretext of human rights abuses,then Uncle Sam needs to clean up in his own back yard first.

Yeah Naki, but you know what it will come down to, when all is said and done the USA will issue a statement to the effect of "the USA has never held anyone illegally on American soil" because they are holding them on 'foreign' soil.

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

its a good trick that isn't it

[phalanx]

First off sub-human terrorist mfer shouldnt have any rights, we should be able to harvest their organs and give them to people who need them. IMO.

Second, Al quada is a terrorists org, and the Taliban were an illegitamate regime recognized by only 2 countries. Also they didnt where any identifiying logos which could be seen from a distance and they didnt carry arms openly and in plain view, and they didn't . And we are unfortunely treating them well, they have 8x8 cells...bigger then a regular jail cell here in the states. They are getting fed 2700 calories per day, the red cross is allowed to inspect conditions. There getting pretty much all the protection and treatment which the geneva convention requires except one, under the geneva convention we wouldnt be able to interogate them, and by interogating them we may be able to get them to crack and reveal upcoming plots. I beleive the FBI said something like 100 attacks were prevented within the last year, I wonder how many of those were prevented by interogating the gitmo residents.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by phalanx
First off sub-human terrorist mfer shouldnt have any rights, we should be able to harvest their organs and give them to people who need them. IMO.

Second, Al quada is a terrorists org, and the Taliban were an illegitamate regime recognized by only 2 countries. Also they didnt where any identifiying logos which could be seen from a distance and they didnt carry arms openly and in plain view, and they didn't . And we are unfortunely treating them well, they have 8x8 cells...bigger then a regular jail cell here in the states. They are getting fed 2700 calories per day, the red cross is allowed to inspect conditions. There getting pretty much all the protection and treatment which the geneva convention requires except one, under the geneva convention we wouldnt be able to interogate them, and by interogating them we may be able to get them to crack and reveal upcoming plots. I beleive the FBI said something like 100 attacks were prevented within the last year, I wonder how many of those were prevented by interogating the gitmo residents.

Great.Another fruit loop.Rumsfeld loves folk like you,who are happy to accept without question the word of the military.Until these prisoners have been tried by a proper judge and jury trial,they are illegal captives.If an overseas government were to detain U.S. citizens in this manner,we would refer to them as hostages.

The behaviour of the U.S. government in refusing to recognise these people as prisoners of war and treat them in accordance with the Geneva Convetion proves that Bush is no better than some of the third-rate dictators who preside over tinpot states.The U.S. is claiming a moral victory for ousting Saddam on one hand,yet treating its prisoners no better than Saddam would.

It's time to stop kidding yourself about Iraq.There are no WMD's,the U.S. is not offering Iraqis a better life,and Saddam and Osama are still at large.

Bush is a failure,and a warmonger.Ditch him,and you make the world a better place.

[freakray]

Originally posted by phalanx
.....under the geneva convention we wouldnt be able to interogate them, and by interogating them we may be able to get them to crack and reveal upcoming plots.

Ironically, much like our government, you manage to ignore the fact that the people being held in Guatanamo Bay were taken as prisoners of war, since the war in Afghanistan is over, sure that would now make them illegal detainees?

Art 3. In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following
provisions:
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
(2) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict

From: http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/0/6fef85...8?OpenDocument

They are dividing them based upon race, since they were quick enough to separate the American 'detainee' from his fellow 'detainees'

Actually, upon further reading of the document which my link above will take you to, said document being the Geneva Convention's actual outline on prisoners of war, it is scary to see how much of said document is conveniently being ignored.....

[phalanx]

Originally posted by taranaki


Great.Another fruit loop.Rumsfeld loves folk like you,who are happy to accept without question the word of the military.Until these prisoners have been tried by a proper judge and jury trial,they are illegal captives.If an overseas government were to detain U.S. citizens in this manner,we would refer to them as hostages.

The behaviour of the U.S. government in refusing to recognise these people as prisoners of war and treat them in accordance with the Geneva Convetion proves that Bush is no better than some of the third-rate dictators who preside over tinpot states.The U.S. is claiming a moral victory for ousting Saddam on one hand,yet treating its prisoners no better than Saddam would.

It's time to stop kidding yourself about Iraq.There are no WMD's,the U.S. is not offering Iraqis a better life,and Saddam and Osama are still at large.

Bush is a failure,and a warmonger.Ditch him,and you make the world a better place.

Nope, I read the facts and formed my own opinion. If a US citizen were to commit a terrorist act, they should be killed. I am extremely disappointed in the decision to allow John Walker a trial, he is a traitor to this country and gave up his rights when he join the taliban. Bush should go and personal shoot the SOB in the head. Im getting sick of you "froot loop" terrorist supporters. Like I said in my previous post we are treating them well. Of course as far as Im concerned we should harvest all their organs and give them to people who need them.

As for Iraq, I dont remember bringing that up in that post but, you wanna dance.....well lets dance. WMD, lets see every intelligence agency in the world said he had them. It took years before we found hidden WMD in kazakhstan when the USSR fell apart. And we have a ton of desert in Iraq were they could of buried them. Or like some of the captured Iraqi scientists are saying, they did in fact destroy all the WMD last year, but were ordered to hide equipment in order to quickly remanufacture them as soon as the US was off its back. Furthermore, the Saddam regime kept great records, he even recorded everyone he killed and how he killed them. He keeps records on what weapons come from what country (FYI: mostly France and Russia) He kept records on his wmd throught the 80s-90s....he stopped keeping records all of a sudden? All he had to do was prove that he destroyed his wmd, and he didnt produce anything that proved it. THe inspectors were there not to hunt but to verify Saddams claims. The burden was on Saddam to produce proof he destroyed WMD, no one elses.

The US is trying offering the Iraqi a better life, unfortunely Saddam loyalist keep attacking infrustructor and the Iraqis get pissed at the US for not providing them with power. They sneak up in a crowd and shoot at the US soldiers, who fire back into the crowd, there using tactics to turn the people of Iraq against us.....and according to a recent poll by a Baghdad newspaper the while they hope the US troops would leave as soon as possible they understand that they need to be there. Furthermore, we are setting up councils around the country in different towns and Paul Bremmer is expected to announce the 25 member ruling council of Iraq next week. Governments can't form overnight...at least not a democratic one. It takes many months to set one up and many many years to get everything in order. Think about Japan and Germany.

Folks we are not fighting a traditional enemy. We are fighting a terrorist org who has members all over the globe. They want to destroy everyones way of life...even fellow muslims and for everyone to convert to their own f*cked up verson of Islam, they knowingly order the killing of innocent civilains. We dont have a chance in hell of winning against theses terrorist mfers if we give them rights. Extreme measures call for extreme actions, we are facing one of the greatest threats to freedom we have ever seen. We have to make everyone of those terrorist so scared, so horrified by what we do to them that they will never commit a terrorist act again.

[taranaki]

Thank you for that summary of every fucked up right wing excuse for this war that has been posted on this site since day 1 of the fighting.Got anything a bit better,abit fresher,or a bit more credible?The redneck approach has been pulled to bits so often it's getting embarrassing.Your post has very little in the way of facts,and some of your opinions are contemptible.

THERE ARE NO WMD's. get over it.

" Bush should go and personal shoot the SOB in the head.
Point one,that's the kind of behaviour that you ousted Saddam for.Point two,I very much doubt that anyone in the White House administration would let that crazy old deserter pick up a loaded gun.

"Like I said in my previous post we are treating them well."

Been there have you?If not,STFU.I'll form my own opinions based on press and human rights reports.If you choose to believe the rosy platitudes of the defence forces,you are seriously deficient in judgement.

"Extreme measures call for extreme actions, we are facing one of the greatest threats to freedom we have ever seen. We have to make everyone of those terrorist so scared, so horrified by what we do to them that they will never commit a terrorist act again."
Make your mind up- you just claimed that they were being treated well.

Please ,come up with a plausible and fresh opinion if you are planning to visit regularly.Your simplistic approach to foreign affairs is the kind of redneck nonsense that the terrorists are rallying against.You have nothing in your argument that could ever frighten a suicide bomber,so why don't you stop the pompous posturing,and go think up a better plan?

[phalanx]

Originally posted by taranaki
Thank you for that summary of every fucked up right wing excuse for this war that has been posted on this site since day 1 of the fighting.Got anything a bit better,abit fresher,or a bit more credible?The redneck approach has been pulled to bits so often it's getting embarrassing.Your post has very little in the way of facts,and some of your opinions are contemptible.

***rightwing, nope hardly, my views place me as a centrist.

THERE ARE NO WMD's. get over it.

****yeah ok, so ever intelligence agency in the world was wrong Its been only been a few months, and hes had 12 yrs to hide them. Give it some time. I bet that I could hide a few barrels of VX on my little 80*100 property, let weapons inspectors know that VX is somewhere on my property and they would take months to find it.

" Bush should go and personal shoot the SOB in the head.
Point one,that's the kind of behaviour that you ousted Saddam for.Point two,I very much doubt that anyone in the White House administration would let that crazy old deserter pick up a loaded gun.

"Like I said in my previous post we are treating them well."

Been there have you?If not,STFU.I'll form my own opinions based on press and human rights reports.If you choose to believe the rosy platitudes of the defence forces,you are seriously deficient in judgement.

***human rights groups have there own political agendas. They are all run by the left. I read a report with the title Gitmo Prisoners being tortured. I got curious and read the article but the article only said we "could" be torturing them because we didnt classify them as POW, pretty misleading, eh? Terrorists dont respect human rights why should we respect the lifes of terrorists.

"Extreme measures call for extreme actions, we are facing one of the greatest threats to freedom we have ever seen. We have to make everyone of those terrorist so scared, so horrified by what we do to them that they will never commit a terrorist act again."
Make your mind up- you just claimed that they were being treated well.

***Learn how to read, yes the US is treating them well, its I who want to take extreme measures on theses terrorists. IMO the Bush admin isnt being tough enough and is bending a bit to the pressure of socialist europe.


Please ,come up with a plausible and fresh opinion if you are planning to visit regularly.Your simplistic approach to foreign affairs is the kind of redneck nonsense that the terrorists are rallying against.You have nothing in your argument that could ever frighten a suicide bomber,so why don't you stop the pompous posturing,and go think up a better plan?

A better plan? What the looney ultra left plan of trying to appease the terrorists?

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

explain the looney left plan if you will

[taranaki]

Originally posted by phalanx



A better plan? ?

Any plan is better than your idea of a 'plan'.This is not Hollywood,this is real life.Perhaps if a few less people were running around like Rambo,and a bit more thought was put into the action,the American forces wouldn't be facing another embarrassing withdrawal similar to Vietnam.
You may well think that Bush is doing a good job,but at the moment,he's responsible for the deaths of an average of 9 American servicemen a week in Iraq.Do you honestly believe that the Iraqis are just going to give up and hand over their country to foreign control or a U.S. 'stooge' governing body?Fuck off and get real!All this talk of liberation is bullshit.The Iraqis don't want you in their country,and the more troops you pour in,the more targets they have.

Bush should step down and let a better man do the job.He's royally fucked up this campaign,and his constant lies and rhetoric bear a startling resemblance to those of the Iraqi information minister.If he wasn't in the position he was in,Bush would be a joke.As it stands,he's a liability.

And until one of the boys in Iraq comes up with a handful of chemical rounds,the 'intelligence services' got it wrong.There's obviously sound reasoning for military intelligence to err on the side of caution,and say that such weapons exist,but since nobody has found any,and none were deployed,it's time to face facts.They don't exist.Anybody with a rudimentary knowledge of organisms such as anthrax will tell you that they have a limited shelf life.If you are suggesting that Saddam buried his chemical weapons 12 years ago,they'd be benign slime by now.

[freakray]

Originally posted by phalanx


Bush should go and personal shoot the SOB in the head. Im getting sick of you "froot loop" terrorist supporters. Like I said in my previous post we are treating them well. Of course as far as Im concerned we should harvest all their organs and give them to people who need them.

It's great, Bush's propoganda machine has brainwashed another innocent American mind.....
Why is it that you Bush supporters consider anyone anti his illogical invasion of a weaker country a 'terrorist supporter'?

Originally posted by phalanx

The US is trying offering the Iraqi a better life.....

I am sure the Iraqi people consider living under curfews imposed by the US armed forces and living under the shadow of armed US troops a better life......

Originally posted by phalanx

Folks we are not fighting a traditional enemy. We are fighting a terrorist org who has members all over the globe.

Well, if they are all over the globe, what the hell are we doing in Irag?
No wait, I can here the reason right now, "there's oil under that there sand"

I'm not left wing by any measure, but do you know how pathetic the Bush supporters sound when they keep trying to justify his war in Iraq with the same drunken rhetoric that he fed them before the war?

You need to find some new reasons, the old ones aren't cutting it anymore.....

[Graphik Styles]

phalanx there is no evidence supporting the fact that their are WMD in Iraq...........and as everyone has said everythign you said has allready been posted on this site.......and as taranaki said it has been torn apart.................................sure i may not post alot but i watch this forum closely......and i my opinion is that Bush royally fucked up and has nuttin to say bout ti anymoe............