FI basics...

[JuMBoBeaTS]

arrite... wat's up everyone? ive been reading up on FI applications and im still wondering about the common day to day things that can occur in these setups... i have a bunch of questions... i'll try to be specific... but if it doesnt say which set up, that means im askin for both... here we go...


1. would i have to use a higher octane gas?
2. in a turbo application, everyone says to build up internals, build up what specifically??
3. what maintenance things do u have to do?
4. am i more prone to detonation? (what is detonation? im kinda iffy on the definition i observed)
5. what else should i get? fuel rail? what size? fuel regulator? new ignition? timers? boost gauges? (please keep in mind, this is a daily driver)
6. ive heard that turbos, in a sense, negates the effect of vtec... is there a way to prevent that?
7. i hear alot about compression... its known that hondas already have a high compression ratio... should i lower that ratio to get bigger HP/TQ gains in an FI setup? how would i lower compression?
8. what gets replaced? like in turbo, the whole header gets replaced with one with a turbo spool...
9. what shouldnt i get if i planned to FI? (direct bolt-ons)
10. would i still pass emissions? (NJ)

thanx for ure input...

[Tominos]

for any type of forced induction, 91+ octane is recommended. build up internals, meaning the first to go would be pistons and rods. make sure to get forged pistons and rods. just regular maintenance items, more often. stronger ignition, etc. detonation is the ignition of the compressed mixture of gas and air in the cylinder without a spark. at the very minimum you should have an air fuel ratio gauge and boost gauge, a strong ignition would be a plus, but not absolutely necessary on low boost levels. turbo replaces exhaust manifold with turbo manifold. if planning to go fi, don't get intake, headers, exhaust(you should have bigger exhaust for turbo). if you get an emissions legal turbo kit, you'd pass emissions, otherwise, not.

[JuMBoBeaTS]

how often should i clean my turbo? what do you do when u do turbo maintenance??

whats the most boost i can run on stock internals? how much HP gain?

i know that turbo is all about tuning... and the proper setup would allow me to keep the normal wear and tear... can u give me a specific example?? (d16y8 engine)

what are brands to look into for turbo? supercharger?

[higgimonster]

there is a lot more to detonation then the description given above.
Normally when your fuel compusts in the cylinder there is a flame front that propogates throughout the cylinder. this is like a wave, in fornt of which are unburned fuel/air molecules. Behind is combusted gasses. This flame front burns slowly and controlled to avoid damage to the engine. When the temperatures get so hot/pressurized in the cylinder that the unburnt fuel explodes before the flame front reaches them and cause a ping, or knock. This is detonation. It is casued by the following:
Lean fuel mixture
Fuel octane too low
Improper ignition timing
Lugging
Carbon deposits
Excessive milling of heads or block, which will increase compression ratio

Pre-ignition is what was described earlier. It is caused by:
Carbon deposits that remain incandescent
Spark plugs too hot a heat range
Spark plugs not firmly seated against gasket
Detonation or the condition leading to it
Sharp edges in combustion chamber
Valves operating at higher than normal temperature because of excessive guide clearance or improper seal with valve seats.
Overheating
Ignition crossfiring. Induced voltage in spark plug wires that run parallel to each other for long distances

And is when the gases ignite without a spark. Not necessarily uncontrollable, just not at the right time.

[Polygon]

1. Would I have to use a higher octane gas?

Yes and no. If you lower you compression ratio, then yes, you will get detonation. Your car will perform better on 91 anyhow if you install a turbo.

2. In a turbo application, everyone says to build up internals, build up what specifically??

They mean rebuild the engine with forged internals, such as replacing the crank, pistons, head gasket, connecting rods, sleeves, the list can go on.

3. What maintenance things do you have to do?

Be religious about changing your oil every 3000 miles along with the oil filter. Oil is your turbo's life blood. Also I would suggest using synthetic oil, it is much better for turbo applications. Lastly be sure to let the turbo cool before shutting off the engine. You can do this by installing a turbo timer or by simply letting the car idle for about 30 seconds before shutting it off. If you have been driving it really hard, drive around for about five minutes then let it idle for about 30 seconds before you shut it off. Just remember that turbo’s run hot, the impeller spins at 100,000+ RPMs. If you take your car out at night and just get hard on it then open the hood and look at it, the turbo will be glowing red hot.

4. Am I more prone to detonation? (What is detonation? I’m kinda’ iffy on the definition I observed).

Yes, if you lower your compression ratio or if you run lean. Rather than say it again I will quote higgi:

"Normally when your fuel combusts in the cylinder there is a flame front that propagates throughout the cylinder. This is like a wave, in front of which are unburned fuel/air molecules. Behind is combusted gasses. This flame front burns slowly and controlled to avoid damage to the engine. When the temperatures get so hot/pressurized in the cylinder that the unburnt fuel explodes before the flame front reaches them and cause a ping, or knock."

Detonation is VERY bad as it can blow holes in the top of your pistons.

5. What else should I get? Fuel rail? What size? Fuel regulator? New ignition? Timers? Boost gauges? (Please keep in mind, this is a daily driver).

You might have to replace the entire fuel system depending how much boost you plan to run. Your fuel system might not be able to keep up and you might run lean, or too much air and too little fuel, which can cause detonation. You will want a boost gauge to make sure you don’t over boost as well. Also you will have to replace the entire exhaust system.

6. I’ve heard that turbos, in a sense, negates the effect of vtec... is there a way to prevent that?

I have yet to hear about this. Vtec is variable timing and lift; the turbo should not affect that.

7. I hear a lot about compression... its known that Hondas already have a high compression ratio... should I lower that ratio to get bigger HP/TQ gains in an FI setup? How would I lower compression?

Well that is partly true and partly not true. The higher your compression the more power you will get. The problem is that you might blow your engine if the compression is too high and you run a lot of boost. I do know people that run 28PSI with a compression of 10:1. It is all a matter of tuning. You may or may not have to lower your compression. My car was running at 8:1 and I was getting great numbers, I say better be safe than sorry. And that car running at 28PSI and 10:1 was a CRX that runs 10s in the 1/4 mile; it also needs to have its engine rebuilt after so many runs. As for lowering or raising the compression, you do that by replacing the pistons with higher or lower compression ones. Some people put spacers between the block and head, this I don’t recommend, and it is jerry rigging, it is a cheap way to do something. You would be better off doing it right. Also you can lower your stroke, change the head, there are a few different ways, but the best is changing the pistons.

8. What gets replaced? Like in turbo, the whole header gets replaced with one with a turbo spool...

Your entire exhaust system will need to be replaced. The headers will be replaced by a down pipe, though I have heard of headers on turbo setups though I have yet to see them. There will also be some wiring, oil lines, and cooling lines added if you plan to run an intercooler.

9. What shouldn’t I get if I planned to FI? (Direct bolt-ons)

I don't know of much that you should avoid.

10. Would I still pass emissions? (NJ)

Of course, as long as you keep your cat installed and you have tuned the car properly.

[Dased530]

:bandit: ok so after so many runs you have to build up your engine again??? so what if you only drive it here and there and just run like 8 psi on the street and take it to the track like 3 times a year and raise the boost to like 18 psi ??? IT's a big ass invesment is it worth it though? I thought about turbo charging my teg.... but i don't want to build up internals again once a year,...

[Polygon]

No, only if you are setting it up to be running 10s or faster in the 1/4 and are doing for a drag setup. If you plan to make it a street car then it should be just as reliable as it is now, just keep an eye on the head gasket, turbo cars are more prone to blow those than N/A cars. The head gasket can go anywhere between 75,000 and 140,000 miles, it just depends on how you drive it.

[CrazyFukr]

dont mean to sound like a fucktard, but what is FI ?

[Polygon]

Hehe, forced induction, or turbocharging/superchraging/N2O.

[Hitter85]

You know the saying for Hondas......"Hondas are like tampons, every pussy needs one." LoL

[iceiso]

Originally posted by CrazyFukr
dont mean to sound like a fucktard, but what is FI ?

lol, i was thinking the same thing, until i realized that the I wasn't a 1. i was like, he wants to be a formula 1 car? hell yeah, you'll need higher octane gas. lol.

[Self]

Originally posted by Hitter85
You know the saying for Hondas......"Hondas are like tampons, every pussy needs one." LoL

Worthless post. Try and keep your unconstructive, pointless comments to yourself, please

[CrazyFukr]

"There's no replacement for displacement...No, not even a turbo."

I saw a Mazda RX-7 that did a 5.2 @ 293 at our local track in Sacramento, California. And as we know, the RX-7's rotary engine is 1.3L, only car with lower displacement is like a 75 civic that is a 1.2L.

In most cases you are right, but there is the race occurence that a bad ass low displacement car will pop up.

[Self]

Originally posted by CrazyFukr
"There's no replacement for displacement...No, not even a turbo."

I saw a Mazda RX-7 that did a 5.2 @ 293 at our local track in Sacramento, California. And as we know, the RX-7's rotary engine is 1.3L, only car with lower displacement is like a 75 civic that is a 1.2L.

In most cases you are right, but there is the race occurence that a bad ass low displacement car will pop up.

Really? wow...I constantly see low 4 second passes at 320+ mph by 500cubic inch motors. Turn on the tv to NHRA top fuel or funny car race and you will too Can't really argue this one, I don't think. No replacement for displacement...No, not even a turbo.

[CaboWabo]

this is very useful fact for me but im a complete car newbie who wants to learn more =P. Anyways would it be possible to just install a turbo kit under a STOCK 97+ honda prelude without lowering that compression you mention and work well with it? Also why do i need a air fuel gauge if i want to add a turbokit? I wonder the most is if i have a stocked prelude can i just install the turbokit and everything will be fine... thanks for the help