Ford Needing New Motor

[sassygrrl32aa]

This is about my 2001 ford taurus with 174,000 miles.
I'd like to know what signs there are of engine failure or if there are any at all. One mechanic said a bad cylinder can come one all at once as a misfire but keep running fine other than that. My car was running fine until this.

I take my car into the dealership because the check engine light was on. They said it was the coil pack and did a tuneup while there. I drive the car off the lot, go about thirty miles from home. As far as I can see it's driving fine. I get to my destination and notice a misfire(like it's skipping), finally the engine light comes back on before I get home. I take it back to the dealership the next day. Several days go by and I don't hear from them so I finally go when I need to get something out out of it. They tell me it needs a new engine. The service advisor tells me the oil rings and pistons are shot and it's 60% low on one cylinder and 40% low on another cylinder. Compression, that is. I talk to the tech who tested the car and he tells me it's 80 psi across the board except that one cylinder(cylinder 2) which is misfiring. It's lower, don't remember how much.
I give them my warranty information. I wait another few days and call them again and the service advisor tells me he's still waiting on the warranty company so I call and find out no one has called about the claim so either this advisor doesn't know what he's doing or he out and out lied.
When I go back to take the car they can't find my keys. I'm going back again tomorrow to get car.
Either way, I paid over $700 for the repairs and if they had told me the engine needed replacing beforehand I could have saved myself the money. They should have tested the compression while the spark plugs were out(at least that's what I've been told).


I had one incident the week before while climbing a steep mountainous grade doing about 70 mph and in cruise. Suddenly the rpm's shot way up and I lost power a few moments later. The CEL was flashing. I got the car to the side of the road and it was idling roughly. I turned it off and back on again and it was fine and went up the mountain fine and no cel light.. A few days later the engine light came on but it was still running okay. That's when I took it in.
Honestly, I thought it was a fuel injector because about a year ago it did almost the same exact thing on this steep hill and that's what it was.


I've always done the maintenance, flushes, fuel injector cleaning every 30,000 miles like they recommend and the oil changes every 5000 miles like they recommend with synthetic blend oil.
I feel like the car should have done more.


As soon as I can I'm taking it to another shop.
It's hard for me to believe that a Ford dealership is that haphazard. It's under new ownership now(never had a problem before new owner) and all the techs that were there before have left.

Confused and would like to make sense of this. I just got back from a long trip in the car, no problems and the miles are mostly highway. Tech said it didn't matter. One other thing, the service advisor said because the spark plugs were getting old that that led to the engine failure.

Oh, the last time out it was low about a quart of oil, 6000 miles. I drove it 3000 and it lost maybe a half quart. I know it's using some but a half quart to quart doesn't seem excessive. And there is oil pan gasket seepage(they call it, this was another dealership, been told a couple of times about it).

When I asked about the cylinder leakdown test the advisor said it was done but he couldn't remember the stats but he was sure it was bad. They saved one of my old spark plugs but didn't show me until I came back with the CEL on and said they were surprised it was running at all. I was surprised, not only had it been running, it had been running good.
They said if I wanted to keep driving it I could probably get 225,000 miles or more out of it just tolerating the misfire. Unfortunately, it will not pass inspection with the cel on. That many miles out of a car with that many engine problems? Doesn't make sense to me but I know really nothing about a car.

Besides compression and leakdown tests what other tests are done when engine failure is suspected?

Thanks in advance....













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[shorod]

I really hesitate to respond to threads like this one, but don't want you to feel ignored. Basically, you're asking us to possibly second-guess someone who should be a professional based on second- and possibly third- hand information posted by someone who admittedly knows "nothing about a car." That's dangerous territory. I will say though, for claiming to not know anything about a car, you do a good job of talking the talk.

I will say that if a car goes in to the shop for what seems to be an obvious misfire, if the spark plugs and/or spark plug wires appear old and due to be replaced, I cannot imagine any shop performing a compression test or cylinder leak down test unless they have reason to suspect more serious damage. This could be indicated by an abnormally clean spark plug from one or more cylinders, or possibly a spark plug with a slightly green tint, or a spark plug that is wet with fuel or heavily carboned up. Unless something abnormal shows up, it's unreasonable to think the shop would perform additional tests before performing a tune up. And since it sounds like the car was running well after the tune up, again I don't really see fault in what the shop did at that time.

Now, according to the information you provided, the subsequent diagnosis is suspect. First off, 80 psi of compression seems quite low for what the shop seemingly considered okay compression. I'd be more prone to suspect they didn't have one of their spark plug wire connectors securely connected, causing the misfire after you were part way home. But, to further test the engine out, there are a few tests in addition to the compression and/or leak down tests that could be performed. First, if it has low compression, that compression has to be going somewhere. They could test for combustion gasses in the cooling system. This is a pretty simple, quite common test that doesn't actually require expensive diagnostic equipment but will indicate possible head gasket damage. The compression could also be due to rings that are not sealing well against the cylinder(s). This would often result in either burning oil (possible blue exhaust or using oil with no apparent leak) or gas flowing past the rings and contaminating the oil. In the latter case you should be able to smell the gasoline-rich oil unless you do a lot of highway driving. You may also notice an over-full condition on the oil dipstick. You could also have a loss of compression due to valves that are not properly sealing. The cylinder leak down test would identify this as an air hiss either in the exhaust or in the intake system when the tester is connected and cylinder is at top dead center.

-Rod

[sassygrrl32aa]

Hello and thanks for the reply. I took the car to another shop yesterday for a second opinion. I noticed it didn't misfire when cold. CEL remained solid though and drove fine. And this is my number one gripe because I can't get it to pass inspection with that darned light on. Now all is left is to drive it until it quits.

I'm ansy partly because I have to take an 800 mile trip soon and this is what I'm going to have to drive. I'm not overly concerned about driving 70 miles(one way) to work since I have triple A but 800 is different.

They finally called my warranty company and only told the adjuster about the cylinder 2 misfire and said it was 40 psi on that cylinder and the motor was worn out. Warranty company wouldn't accept that.

He didn't tell the adjuster any of what he told me but he may have forgotten since he waited almost two weeks to call.

I check the oil regularly and it isn't overly full or overly low. THe tech said my usage is normal for a car it's age and mileage. Other than the misfire it drove fine. Power was fine, no smoke, etc.

The misfire(skipping) is mostly annoying. I would only know if it gets much worse is to drive it much farther.

Again, Thanks for the reply.

[shorod]

Did the second shop you took the car to yesterday give you an opinion, or confirm the low compression? Cylinder #2 is not an easy one to get to (middle rear), but a shop should be able to do it. I'm sure they'll charge you some labor for it though which I assume you expect. It would be a bit unusual for compression to drop only when the engine is warm. If the shop is unable to duplicate the low compression, suggest they swap the spark plug from #2 cylinder with one from maybe cylinder #5. And, if the #2 plug wire is comparable in length to another cylinder, suggest they swap those around. If you really want to get to the bottom of this you could have them swap fuel injectors, but that's quite a bit more work See if the misfire code follows the spark plug, plug wire, injector if you go that far, or remains on cylinder #2.

-Rod

[sassygrrl32aa]

Thanks for the replying again.

The new shop called me. Today they are going to do the leakdown test and wanted to take off the valve cover and also examine the rocker arms, etc. The price for that wasn't too steep so I decided to go with it.
He did a compression test and all the cylinders were fine except for cylinder 2 which was at 40 psi like Ford said.

He thinks it needs a valve job but wants to do more research before making a final decision. If it does, part of what he's charging today will go toward the repair and they can call the warranty company again with more information than worn out motor.

They couldn't tell me what my exact cost would be but I know it will be over a $1000 for that repair(for me out of pocket) if the warranty company won't cover it.

Like a dummy I honestly thought my transmission would go long before I ever needed engine repair.

So much for, if you care of them, they will last. Parts wear out regardless. I love Ford but will defiinitely consider other options when buying another car. I want something that make it to 200,000 before doing major engine work.

The shop is going to get back to me this afternoon with their findings.

[sassygrrl32aa]

Well,, it's official. It needs a valve job. Now I'm just waiting for the warranty company to get back to them.