World Opinion

[Dorikin]

It seems as if the people opposed to war on this board are the non-american residents....

[jon@af]

Well, I dont know about that completely. Im not for the war but I will support the troops as long as they are over there. That might seem kinda weird but that's ok, it makes sense to me.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by ILike2DriveCars
Well, I dont know about that completely. Im not for the war but I will support the troops as long as they are over there. That might seem kinda weird but that's ok, it makes sense to me.

It sounds like a cop-out to me .Bush is relying on people accepting it as a 'done deal'.When he has taken control of Iraq and found that the claims of chemical weapons and all the other hoopla were nowhere near accurate,he's relying on people to accept it because it's a done deal

This war is IMMORAL.It breaches the U.N.charter,it won't result in a stable Iraq, and it is being fought for the benefit of the oil industry.

I will never accept that George Bush has served his country well.The sooner he goes,the safer the world is.

[1985_BMW318i]

and it is being fought for the benefit of the oil industry.

Naki where is your proof that this is for the benifit of the Oil industry?

[taranaki]

Originally posted by 1985_BMW318i

Naki where is your proof that this is for the benifit of the Oil industry?

You can't be serious,surely.Once the "axis of the killing[oops,willing]" has finished trashing Iraq, the money from Iraq's oil industry will be spent on rebuilding the infrastructure that has been repeatedly attacked since 1991.Iraq will need steel mills, chemical plants,water treatment facilities, power stations and all the other essential services the George's boys have taken out.The contracts for these jobs are already on the table...A very lucrative contract for the management of the port of Basra has been awarded to an overseas company already.

Three guesses which country will be getting paid to run Basra.

[Prelewd]

Where again is the proof? I'm not challenging anything, just wondering where the proof is..

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Prelewd
Where again is the proof? I'm not challenging anything, just wondering where the proof is..

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...ebuild28.shtml

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2003/s818790.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Mar27.html

from the third article

The latest contract was awarded under a waiver the Bush administration granted in January, allowing government agencies to handpick companies for Iraqi reconstruction contracts.

in other words,screw the traditional tender process,it's going to anAmerican company.

[Prelewd]

Using your very own tactics, let's just call it all propoganda. There is no doubt that these companies have been awareded the contracts, but can you prove to me why they were? Can you also prove that Bush is definetly doing this because he wants oil?

[T4 Primera]

Originally posted by Prelewd
Can you also prove that Bush is definetly doing this because he wants oil?

It's probably going to be one of those things that is unprovable. How can anyone prove what a person is thinking. All we can prove is that they have the motive and the opportunity. Failing the uncovering of documents signed by the people in question that this was their intention, all we are left with is to see what happens if the coalition forces succeed. Even then it canot be proven beyond reasonable doubt that this was their intention. All we can say is that there existed a very strong motivation and opportunity.

I trust you have read the links explaining the oil situation that I've posted in other threads? If not then here they are again.
.American Petroleum Institute (industry lobby group apparently)
Oil in Iraq: The Heart of the Crisis (article)
Iraq: The Struggle for Oil (article)

To add to Taranaki's stuff on infrastructure/rebuilding contracts etc is the most lucrative of all - the oil. The oil contract usually work as a shared profit arrangement between the owner of the resources and the petroleum company who develops oilfields and sells the oil.

example:
Lets say the Iraqi's decide they want say $5/barrel for oil taken from their country. The petroleum company explores, develops and sells the oil for maybe $20/barrel. It will likely cost the contractor $1.50/barrel to produce oil in Iraq, so after paying for that and the "rent" of $5/barrel they sell it and make a profit of $14.50/barrel on the world market. Iraqi oil is estimated to be worth around $3trillion in clear profit to the petroleum companies who eventually get access to the resources.

Those of us who do not believe that Saddam supplies weapons to terrorists and is a threat to US, UK and world security are left with only oil as the primary motivation for invading Iraq. To say that it is for human rights and freedom etc. opens up questions of why intervention has not taken place in many other dictatorships around the world.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Prelewd
Using your very own tactics, let's just call it all propoganda.

using my own tactics again,why would two American sources and an Australian source publish anti-American propaganda?What alternative reason has anybody for opposing this war?

and just for the hell of it,why should I prove it's about oil?the important thing is that nobody can prove that the 'official' line isn't just a crock.

[Stefanel1]

>ILike2DriveCars : "Well, I dont know about that completely. Im not for the war but I will support the troops as long as they are over there. That might seem kinda weird but that's ok, it makes sense to me."


doesn't sound weird : I'm French and not for this war which doens't seem necessary, but between American and Iraqis, we're with the Americans who are European's friends, even if we don't agree with them.

[T4 Primera]

Stefanel1

When you say "we" who are you referring to? Do you represent the French people?

[jon@af]

Originally posted by T4 Primera
Stefanel1

When you say "we" who are you referring to? Do you represent the French people?

By saying "we" he could be talking about friends he has that feel the same way as himself, or his family or people he knows around his community. "we" is not just subject to the French people only.

[Stefanel1]

It's a general "we" : concerning the big part of French, Germans, and other countries opposed to this war.
I mean that, even if there are some disagreements, American and French (and I'm sure taht's not different for other European or Australasian countries, less clear for African countries) are still friends !

[tomlong]

using my own tactics again,why would two American sources and an Australian source publish anti-American propaganda

It is not anti-american propaganda it is anti-war propaganda. Why are they posting it you ask. Well I have had other conversations with you where you have stated that our media only shows and says what the government tells them to(censorship). I have continuously stated that our media takes objective views from both sides and we are all not brainwashed as you think. I frankly dont care if the large majority of New Zealands tiny populous is against this war. You can believe what you like about our president that is your right. Myself being an American citizen can tell you that the majority of our large populous support what we are doing. You can sit on your island believing whatever you like it just takes us back to the well used phrase ignorance is bliss until it creeps up and takes out your kneecaps. You say that Iraq and the terrorists it harbors represent no threat to the U.S. or any countries outside the middle east. What did Bali do to deserve the terrorist attack? You will be asking yourself many of these questions when terror strikes your country. You have also stated in other posts that all americans are republicans. This is by far correct. You act as if you know so much about how our president does his job. The truth of the matter is that our presidents approval ratings are higher than almost any president ever. These ratings are decided by the 280 million people who live in our country. You complain about U.S. companies working to rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure. Well if there was another country out there that knew how to run an economy half as well as our companies maybe somebody else would be doing it. How many billion dollar companies are in New Zealand? My guess would be very few.