B16 vs D16

What motor would you go with? what motor do you think is better? give Valid reasons this should be a very good debate on here

D series will bolt to your tranny and use your motor mounts, axles,etc..., so its cheap IMO.....in the long run it wont be as fast as a b series swap... but it can be damn quick ....


gunnmen01

Overall, as much as I don't like to admit it, I think a b16 is better than a d16. Two cams make for better tuning, and there is just more aftermarket support for a b16 than a d16, not to mention a better base HP to work from. As for which one I would rather have, I'd go with a d16 because it's more of a challenge to squeeze HP from, especially all-motor. I know I'm swapping in a b16 right now, so it doesn't make much sense that I would take a d16 over a b16, but I'm just using the b16 so I can have a fast car while I build up a d16.

Why does it have to be b16? Why not any other b-series motor? Of course i would chose the b-series over the d any day. B-series is just simply better. I dont care if alot of ppl have b16s. It doesn't matter who have it, what matters is what u've done with it. I would spend a lil extra money on a b-series cause i know they have more potential then d.

You're pretty much just looking for an argument here, aren't you? :rolleyes:

Think about it man.. One of the engines are made for getting a car around to the grocery store, being good on gas, and being "peppy".. The other is made for going fast right out of the box. Really close ratio tranny, DOHC, VTEC, LOTS AND LOTS of aftermarket support.. Shit, you could build a 13 second monster B series motor using nothing but stock Honda parts.

One has 108hp, one has 160.
You're comparing apples to oranges man.. Not everyone can afford a B16 though, so they're stuck modding D16s... Thats just the way it is.

Same goes to all d16z6 or y8.

dont forget the zc is a D series......, argument nah just a debate its better than lookin at the same old boring posts everyday wouldent you agree? im just tryin to livin it up some, and dont even bring up the money issue not everyone is blessed with money....thats a whole diff story i will argue about that cuz not everyone has things handed to them on a silver platter

Originally posted by civicHBsi91
dont forget the zc is a D series.

zc has lil bit more potential then other d-series motor but still aint all that compared to b-series. Its hard to get a zc goin that fast also.

this debate is retarded. you can ask sohc non vtec vs. dohc vtec. thats apples and oranges. the 2 engines are completely different tuning wise, money wise, and difficulty of installation.

you should be asking about d vs d or b vs b.

ahh you guys suck

http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/images/badassbuddy_com-yousuck.gif

it's not our fault you asked a retarded question :silly2:

Originally posted by civicHBsi91
and dont even bring up the money issue not everyone is blessed with money....thats a whole diff story i will argue about that cuz not everyone has things handed to them on a silver platter

Don't assume that all people who have nice things do either.. I work fuckin' hard for my shit.

I think that a ZC would have more potential than a D16 too, but there is a huge lack in aftermarket support for them.. Thats why I originally had a ZC because I believed in the potential, but I ditched it because I got frustrated trying to find parts for a build.

I believe that with Honda motors DOHC is the way to go if you want to mod them. (especially NA) Thats why I've had a ZC and now I have the B16. I agree that a lot of people just grab B16s because of the "ooh ahh" factor of saying that they have VTEC... When I had the ZC I was the exact same way as you, a hater. But once you get behind the wheel and the car just takes right off at 5500rpm with a smooth scream all the way past 8000 there is no way not to love the B16.

no question is a retarded question theres proably tons of other people wondering the same but afriad to ask.....and its not like im honda illiterate i know whats up, i was just asking opinions so.....i geuss then your opinion is retarded :rolleyes:

dont get me wrong i work my ass off for what i have.......and i also was into b series for along time and im not hating i just think that D series arent just economic engines, i like a challenge and when i do beat B series guys i will get respect and i will post track times of what i make my D into.....its just a matter of time

b18c ownz joo :D . j/k, nah, its a valid question. a lot of ppl enjoy tuning the SOHC motors an having more of a challenge, but then others enjoy having more power an a DOHC VTEC motor. i'd go w/ the B16, simply because of the larger after market support. yes, its more expensive, but u would have a lot easier time finding parts for it. plus...if u get really bored w/ it, u can jus find a ls bottom an drop the B16's head on top. :D

theres becoming more and more aftermarket support for d series engines, i dont see why thats an issue really

well I am almost positive I will be having fun with my ZC, I have to get my transmission rebuilt (looking for an LSD right now) ... maybe a ZC with an LSD.

But I will have some fun with my DOHC Black top ZC.

I will be tearing into the block soon to replace the Headgasket... I'll probably have a few other goddies for it too.

I have a buddie of mine that if i can get a hold of a spare head will P&P it and give it a 5deg valve job for free ( school ).

maybe some reshaped LS rods, Ballanced and pitted
New pistons... maybe a Turbo next year... who knows

cams are definatly in the future, HKS cam gears, Centerforce stage-2, ACT Flywheel 12.5lbs one.

eventualy go and port the intake manifold.

I was looking into a B16 swap unfortuatly cannot justify the price for an extra 20hp. when I can fix/upgrade what I have for alot less money

K-Drum

Neither... B18C5 all the way. Nicer torque curve all around.

Hell, for all the usefullness of this thread I though I might as well throw this in :devil:

Originally posted by Kunundrum


I was looking into a B16 swap unfortuatly cannot justify the price for an extra 20hp. when I can fix/upgrade what I have for alot less money



thats what i'm talking about. except when i was looking for an engine i was looking at both zc and z6 sohc vtec. i could not find a zc cheaper than a z6. then i found the y8 with 12,000mi for $500. there was no way i was going to find a zc only 2 yrs old with that few of miles.

now you wanna talk zc vs sohc vtec and who will win? http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/images/badassbuddy_com-scuffle.gif it's a good battle. sohc vtec has it with the quickness but a dual cam zc has it in the long run. those 2 engines in hatches is the kind of race that comes down to the driver :smoker:

i say stick with the SOHC and build it. put a tubo in it.

it's rare in these parts of the states (Indiana) to see a fast SOHC. That's why we are going to build one.

we are planning on 12s. it can be done. don't waist time and money on an overated b16 or zc.

just my .02

Originally posted by hotgrlzracin
don't waist time and money on an overated b16 or zc.



You must be smokin some good shit. Hit it twice and pass that shit over here!:smoker2: :rolleyes:

overated b16 I LOVE YOU! :D ;)

i don't know about you guys, but i love Boobies! Who agrees with me?

Originally posted by Setanta
Neither... B18C5 all the way. Nicer torque curve all around.

Hell, for all the usefullness of this thread I though I might as well throw this in :devil:

too high of compression to do anything w/ that motor really. if u put in some low compression pistons, an reinforce everything, then the extra 2k u put into that one is pretty much a waste? why not get the b18c1.

Originally posted by RedRacerCivic
i don't know about you guys, but i love Boobies! Who agrees with me?

i agree with you :D

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00


too high of compression to do anything w/ that motor really. if u put in some low compression pistons, an reinforce everything, then the extra 2k u put into that one is pretty much a waste? why not get the b18c1.


First off its a good motor to go all motor. You can also turbo it at that compression but u gotta find someone to tune it real good. I wouldn't mind getting me a type r motor but i'd rather get the short block and slap the b16 head it. "poor mans" type r:)

:bonghitte

alright peeps i am not here to :argue: ....

just to put in my thoughts.

all i am saying is i would rather see someone put time and money into something that MOST ppl think is a waste of time and money. the majority of ppl wouldn't build a SOHC just for the simple fact that most think it can't be fast. but it can be done.

my reason for saying a b16 is overated has a lot to do with the fact that ppl jack the prices up on these things. i understand they are hard to come by and what not but just add some time and money into the SOHC w/ a turbo and you could have just as fast of a car for about the same or less money.

this is all my opinion and ain't nothing that i am saying law. so take it how you want. do what you want. it's ya money and ya time.

when we get the tubo SOHC done i will post pics and time slips.

thanks

SR20DE


Oh wait, wrong thread, sorry...

i would like an sr20de.

Originally posted by mellowboy


You must be smokin some good shit. Hit it twice and pass that shit over here!:smoker2: :rolleyes:

OH MY GAWD! wheeeeeee! mellowboy has found another girl laughing at b's while building off a d.

"don't be scuuuuured, it's only d series"

http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/images/badassbuddy_com-talktrash.gif

My si motor runs like a fucking beast!!!..I beat so many cars wit my si..I beat a mustang!!! on the jump!!

Originally posted by 91BLKsi
My si motor runs like a fucking beast!!!..I beat so many cars wit my si..I beat a mustang!!! on the jump!!

:rolleyes:

D series all the way! when i get done with my z6 it will be able to beat modded b16's all day long :-D and since i dont currently have a civic, that will give me alot of time to work on it until i am the proud owner of a 90-91 Si

melt..i will beat your 4 door anyday..i will give you a block head start

Originally posted by 91BLKsi
My si motor runs like a fucking beast!!!..I beat so many cars wit my si..I beat a mustang!!! on the jump!!

would that be a Civic Si, or Prelude Si engine? And does on the jump mean rolling start? (ricer fly-by: when someone with a much more powerful car driving at the speed limit is passed by a car with no where near the potential doing 20 plus over. Rice then claims victory. :D)

civicHBsi91, didn't I already prove to you that the DOHC set-up of the B series will always be more potent than the D-series SOHC set-up (excluding ZC), or did you ignore what I said.

This thread should really be about who likes a challenge, and who likes to go faster with less effort, because that is what it's really all about. If you put in a B series, you don't have to do as much to get it to go fast, but think of all the time you have to spend milking a D-series for the same amount of HP.

civicHBsi91 is starting to sound jealous of the B to me.

Originally posted by civic1784


would that be a Civic Si, or Prelude Si engine? And does on the jump mean rolling start? (ricer fly-by: when someone with a much more powerful car driving at the speed limit is passed by a car with no where near the potential doing 20 plus over. Rice then claims victory. :D)

civicHBsi91, didn't I already prove to you that the DOHC set-up of the B series will always be more potent than the D-series SOHC set-up (excluding ZC), or did you ignore what I said.

This thread should really be about who likes a challenge, and who likes to go faster with less effort, because that is what it's really all about. If you put in a B series, you don't have to do as much to get it to go fast, but think of all the time you have to spend milking a D-series for the same amount of HP.

civicHBsi91 is starting to sound jealous of the B to me.


You did good on proving that b-series is better!:)

B series is better, but D series is more fun.:D

kris SR20DE Make that a SR28DETT and there my friend is an engine!:D

B=Quicker outta box
D=Better challenge, have no way to rely on VTEC (all motor)

Originally posted by tehferret
Make that a SR28DETT and there my friend is an engine!:D

Theres no such engine.

hehe 7M-GTE

well if u guys want a challenge then put somthing really different in ya civics :)


a while back some guys where gonig on about getting RWD coversion done ... now that would be different :)

this argument over D and B series will go on forever....

just look at the HP as stock... B series has it no probs at all :)

hehe and just to put some new flavor into this thread :)

my old engine (before my mods) sadly now in little tiny bits in a garage in south wales :)

never forget that engines need oil..

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
B=Quicker outta box
D=Better challenge, have no way to rely on VTEC (all motor)

:rolleyes: you can rely on vtec. oh wait...let me guess, only the b series have reliable vtec? :bloated:

i'm not even going to waste my breath. it does not take that much to make a d series quicker than a b. it sure as hell takes less money. but no b series owner wants to admitt a d seires spent less money and has more HP.....you guys can sit here and argue but there is no way any of the b series owners will say different.

i have a dyno sheet. daily driven zc with 10psi. 178.1 whp. set-up costs $2000. show me any b series dyno sheet that shows 178whp that was put together for $2500 (i'll even give you an extra 5 bills). i dare ya.

setanta need not apply. i'm not talking stock b16a1 in an EF9 SiR
:devil: must be an engine that has been swapped in.

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


:show me any b series dyno sheet that shows 178whp that was put together for $2500 (i'll even give you an extra 5 bills). i dare ya.

in.

I'm pretty sure b-series could produce more. Throw in a drag gen 4 turbo kit which they add 120 hp. Not to the wheels but still it'll pack more than 178 at the wheels.

he put that zc + turbo in before i put my y8 in a yr ago. i talk to him everyday. he hasn't had 1 break down. so :flipa: it not being reliablehttp://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/Photos/photos/New_Folder/zcdyno.jpg

edit: i fixed the image :jump:

Originally posted by mellowboy


I'm pretty sure b-series could produce more. Throw in a drag gen 4 turbo kit which they add 120 hp. Not to the wheels but still it'll pack more than 178 at the wheels.

gen 4 turbo kit? i said....show me any b series (any set up) that will produce 178+ to the wheels for under $2500. i highly doubt a turbo kit that adds 120 whp is in the budget :silly2:

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


gen 4 turbo kit? i said....show me any b series (any set up) that will produce 178+ to the wheels for under $2500. i highly doubt a turbo kit that adds 120 whp is in the budget :silly2:

Well 120 hp but not to the wheels. My friend has drag gen 3 in his integra gsr that made 197 to the wheels. He got it dyno'ed at the tech skool. I'll see if he has the dyno sheet. The gen 3 adds 100 hp so just imagine the drag gen 4? The kit only cost 3 g's.

Originally posted by mellowboy

The kit only cost 3 g's.

ROTFL...the kit is over budget before you even get the motor.

sorry you are the weakest link.....good bye!


:D

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


ROTFL...the kit is over budget before you even get the motor.

sorry you are the weakest link.....good bye!


:D

you gonna make a big deal over 500 bucks?

okok... how about if ya had unlimited funds hehe..


this thread is gonna go on forever


:bandit:

Originally posted by mellowboy


you gonna make a big deal over 500 bucks?

yes i am. you're missing it. the $2500 has to include the engine. so it's a hella lot more than $500 now isn't it? that 178whp zc is $2000 for complete set-up.....engine and ALL.

let me spell it out for you....

you show me a dyno sheet for any b series engine + whatever set-up with 178whp for the total dollar amount spent of $2500 or less

MKS2, we're not talking unlimited funds. this whole debate of d16 vs b16 is ghey. like i said before....2 different $$ factors, 2 different tuning factors, and 2 different installation factors.

however, people keep saying b series is easier because it has 130whp out of the box. it is not easier. you have to use different motor mounts, tranny, shift linkage, and so on. how can that be easier than an engine that bolts right in? especially when that engine can have 178whp for the same amount of money or less.

this debate = stupid. however, i figured i would stir the pot a little and throw out a challange for all the b series people.

This really has nothing to do with the series at all. Notice that in all of my arguments, I made sure to exclude the ZC, and made it clear the the engines would be tuned equally. I hope that people clearly understand that this argument is entirely SOHC vs. DOHC. I'm really happy for you if your SOHC D-series can spank a bone stock DOHC B-series, but if you did the same modifications to the B-series, despite the cost difference, the DOHC B-series will beat a SOHC D-series. True, the factor of a lesser cost can be attractive, however, it is no ground for claiming a superior engine.

LadyNRedSi, when you try to support the D-series cause, you are using the DOHC ZC (presumably DOHC - unlike Melt's SOHC), and a turbo application of it. Although it is a D-series, it has the twin cam setup, allowing them to extract more power from the turbocharger, because of the seperate cam profiles and the ability to adjust valve overlap, which is critical in a turbo setup. Please find another example, this time with the more common SOHC D-series engine, and I can almost guarantee that the gains will be much less impressive.

This debate has nothing to do with the series, but entirely the cam set-up. It also has to do with who wants gains easier, and who likes a challenge. And, to satisfy all you budget racers, it has to do with cost.

Does anyone even read my posts besides mellowboy?:licker:

Originally posted by tehferret
Make that a SR28DETT and there my friend is an engine!:D

Never heard of those:p

By any chance do you mean the RB26DETT? That is a nice engine.

Originally posted by civic1784
This really has nothing to do with the series at all. Notice that in all of my arguments, I made sure to exclude the ZC, and made it clear the the engines would be tuned equally. I hope that people clearly understand that this argument is entirely SOHC vs. DOHC. I'm really happy for you if your SOHC D-series can spank a bone stock DOHC B-series, but if you did the same modifications to the B-series, despite the cost difference, the DOHC B-series will beat a SOHC D-series. True, the factor of a lesser cost can be attractive, however, it is no ground for claiming a superior engine.

LadyNRedSi, when you try to support the D-series cause, you are using the DOHC ZC (presumably DOHC - unlike Melt's SOHC), and a turbo application of it. Although it is a D-series, it has the twin cam setup, allowing them to extract more power from the turbocharger, because of the seperate cam profiles and the ability to adjust valve overlap, which is critical in a turbo setup. Please find another example, this time with the more common SOHC D-series engine, and I can almost guarantee that the gains will be much less impressive.

This debate has nothing to do with the series, but entirely the cam set-up. It also has to do with who wants gains easier, and who likes a challenge. And, to satisfy all you budget racers, it has to do with cost.

Does anyone even read my posts besides mellowboy?:licker:

My lord i'm at your service!;)

you did the same modifications to the B-series, despite the cost difference, the DOHC B-series will beat a SOHC D-series.

that statement should've ended this thread about 500 posts ago.

you cannot argue with that.

i used dohc vtec because i had the dyno slip for it. the same can be used for sohc vtec.

i did read your post. apparently you did not read mine. i said

MKS2, we're not talking unlimited funds. this whole debate of d16 vs b16 is ghey. like i said before....2 different $$ factors, 2 different tuning factors, and 2 different installation factors.

however, people keep saying b series is easier because it has 130whp out of the box. it is not easier. you have to use different motor mounts, tranny, shift linkage, and so on. how can that be easier than an engine that bolts right in? especially when that engine can have 178whp for the same amount of money or less.

this debate = stupid. however, i figured i would stir the pot a little and throw out a challange for all the b series people

apperantly you DID NOT READ. that was for the b series poeple saying it was an easy 130whp out of the box. it is not an easy swap. more horses can be put out to the wheel for the same amount of money and the same amount of effort.

you want to talk unlimited money. that is a whole different story. if i had $20,000 to sink into an engine like seth papadakis then yea, i would have a b16 too.

so, if you care to throw up a dyno sheet of any b series (just as i did for anything that falls under the "d" catagory) that can put out high whp for under $2500 then i am talking to you.....

if not then you are chasing your tail. duh, of cousre unlimited money = faster b series.

this is the same about import vs domestic but on a smaller level more power vs less power and you guys will argue imports, its like what im saying B vs D, even the domestic guys probably debate about BB and SB *big block, small block* sure the B series is a great motor nice power but i think they are over rated they can be beaten and it will happen more and more, while everyone with a B swap is broke the D series guys will be modding and modding and modding and by the time you get a turbo kit on that B or whatever you wanna do they will be evenly matched....time/money.....unless your rich or mommy and daddy pay for everything or anything, and saying a D cant go all motor and beat things.....its possible it has been done....bisimoto 10 sec all motor D15, sure not many people have done it but more and more people are modding their original motors and companies see this, theres alot of new parts coming out for the D series motor in the near future, the D has potential........work with it

on the first page i said

this debate is retarded. you can ask sohc non vtec vs. dohc vtec. thats apples and oranges. the 2 engines are completely different tuning wise, money wise, and difficulty of installation.

you should be asking about d vs d or b vs b.

i said this was stupid from the start. sohc no vtec vs. doch vtec.....:thinkerg:

i know! i'm gonna go box mike tyson.....think i'll K.O. his azz?

http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/images/badassbuddy_com-specialoly.gif

lmao, i throw a challange out there....and all the b series people can say is "well, if the b16 had the same mods". oh but pitting a stock b series is fair against a stock d? having the same mods is easy. i threw out the challange of making the b the same hp as a d for the same $$$$ spent. but it's all good. i can already see nobody is going to step up to the challenge of posting up a dyno sheet. it's just easier to argue shoulda, coulda, woulda......

lucky i live in the UK and u can get b16s as stock engines :)

well at least i think u can oh well :)

Originally posted by MKS2
lucky i live in the UK and u can get b16s as stock engines :)

well at least i think u can oh well :)

:devil: i got you covered on that too! go back and read. i said NOT including b16's that come stock in the SiR. has to be a b series that is swapped in. :devil: