B16 vs D16

Originally posted by mellowboy


I'm sorry but thats not enough to beat a b16.

Did you even read my whole post? Or did you just selectivly pick that part out to TRY to cap on me? What I said was i will BEAT A B16 THAT HAS I/H/E. Go read the WHOLE post and TRY and tell me you think I was sayin I can beet a B16 4th gen with a ZC I/H/E in a 4th gen... I pretty sure most of us know you cant make 30 HP with I/H/E no matter how hard you try.

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
I would have to agree with you that its all about making something out of nothing... Which is why I am using a D series motor in my buildup ;) For the kind of money Im droping in this ZC I could have already bought a whole B16 Changeover with mounts. But Im gonna smoke B16's (With I/H/E) After I finish my buildup then when I add the nitrous I will smoke turbo B16's at 3/4's the cost... So what up with that?

Ok I may have been a little harsh on that last comment, I can see how you would get confused... Most people dont consider I/H/E a "BUILDUP" thats considered "BASICS" for anyone TRYING to go fast.
Like I said thoe dude, please excuse the previouse post.:flash:

Originally posted by civic1784
I have more where that came from, but unfortunately, those set-ups are a little bit pricier, but once this debate is settled, if anyone wants to see some nice dyno runs of some LS/VTECs, then I've got the hook up. :p

I did mean to put stock in quotation marks though, seeing that the engine itself is a hybrid.

**Edit** Mellowboy, my follower, you got to back that up with proof. Simply put, for the 5hp increase of those three components, that doesn't get someone near the 160hp of a stock B16A. We aren't talking about a K20 that gets a 20hp increase from and intake (which is crazy, btw), and the numbers just won't add up. Maybe if you up your compression to like 11.2 maybe.

Hehe! Try 11 16:1 ;) With I/H/E Camshafts, gears, and ZEX wet kit ;) well see what a B16 with I/H/E has to say to that! There is a Stripped CRX around with this exact setup, when I am done.... We shall see :D

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
why all the excuses? we're not saying "ooo...well u have a turbo an ours is N/A" the ls/vtec is a legit motor, an it can be done under 2500, or tell my frien w/ his ls/vtec diff maybe? i mean...first u say its not met, then when we more then meet it, u say make excuses of why it doesn't work. it IS under 2500, and if u didn't want it up to 2500, then u should have said so from the beginning. face it, overall, the b series motors can be faster with the same amount of money. wut about the nitrous on the b16? does that not work either? this is pointless to even try if ur gonna come up w/ lame comebacks for everything we post. its over, ur challenge was met.

Nitrous + Vtec = BOOM!!! And the engine pieces fly everywere! You ever seen a VTEC Nos monster? I didnt think so... And if you did, it didnt have the stock cams ;)

Originally posted by civic1784
You didn't post a dyno of your 2 year old D16. You posted a dyno of a ZC, and last time I checked, the last time they were stock in any car was in '92 in Japan. The way you are bashing on the B-series for nitrous and all, I am starting to think you are very closed minded and potentially ignorant to the fact that the B-series is just an all around better motor. Sorry it's price can be a little more than you want to spend, but in general, its a better engine.

Besides, if I wanted to, I could piece together a turbo kit well within the price range. Are you so steadfast to defend your precious D-series because it is what you own and you don't want to be offended, or is it just that you think it is a superior engine?

It is by no means superior, and I'm not trying to flame, but you must understand that things can be done cheaply, and as far as a swap being challenging - Hell no. Its about 4 hours of moving an engine around, hooking up wiring, vacuum tubing, and assorted odds and ends. It's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

You may still be waiting for other dynos, but I am still waiting for the dyno of a SOHC D-series. Please, don't keep us waiting.

:eek:

Check again dude... ZC were made all the way up till 1998! Im full of shit? Mines a 94 dumbass ;) Oh and I AM defending the D sereis motors because they ARE superior! The only thing the B series (Some of them) has on a D series (Some of them again) Is Dohc, a little better flowing heads that can be fixed with a p&p and Vtec. Vtec sucks ass! Is Vtec worht me spending $1000 more on a B16 then a ZC? FUCK NO! Vtec engines have this tendency to EXPLODE when built improperly ;) Such as tosing a nitrous bottle on or just slaping a turbo on with doing internals... So my question to you B series people is 30 HP worth $1000? If you say yes your a fucking idiot! Im sorry but its true! Your a trendy fucker and we caught yer ass being a trendy dipshit cause FOR $600 I can get 75hp wet nitrous system... What can I do with another $400? Well I CANT be a britney spear/backstreet boys/B series fan because every one els is doin it! I sure as hell can get some Rods to handle the 75 shot of nos and STILL have a motor that lasts longer than yours ;) RPM = Ruins Peoples Motors. Get it? So every time you want to Vtec out your puttin just a little more stress on the engine till it snaps!

Sorry to bring Nitrous into the picture ami but I had to :devil:

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
have i even mentioned my engine. nope. oh yea, that was YOU.Actually you have.Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
hmmm, so my 2 year old d16 is old? ROTFL!Looks to like you have a D-series. I am certain that I have not mentioned the kind of engine that I have. If I have, then what is it?Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
no, i'm not taking NOS as an answer. i can stick NOS on a d series too. that is ghey.

what i find really funny is how PERSONAL you all are taking this. :spit:
for the 50th time.....this thread was ghey from post 1. it is no fair to compare a b16 to a d16 hp wise like it isn't fair to compare $$$ wise d vs b. I still can't understand why you think nitrous is "ghey". It is a valid modification. Sure, you can do it to a D-series engine as well, but you can jet atleast 25hp more in a B-series over a D-series before you need to upgrade the internals. Who is taking this personal by the way? No one's feelings are being hurt here, and if they are, then those that are being hurt are hypersensitive and need to relax anyway. If this post is so "ghey" and unfair, then why are you still trying to support the D-series. What happened to the person that started this thread? It was their question to begin with, they ought to be able to share their input as well.Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
guess what......news flash......I LIKE D SERIES.....who would of guessed????

guess what.....stock b vs stock d = unfair

guess what....hooking up a d is cheaper

CAN I MAKE IT ANY MORE CLEAR?

now if you want to keep saying i like d series. and if you want to keep saying a d is cheaper to work on....and the b has more hp to start...then feel free, but it's no secret or news. Since when does it matter that you like the D-series. What you like has nothing to do with which motor is better. I like the ZC, but does that mean I think an entire series is better? If comparing stock vs. stock is unfair, then how can you claim comparing modified vs. stock is fair? Its true, it is no secret that the B-series starts out with more horse power. That is obvious.

The ability to improve the B-series better (and ZC) really all comes down to that second camshaft. Can anyone negate that?

I can! Its all about the Power To Pocket ratio! Maybe some of us bust our balls tring to put together a nice little engine and dont get money from momy and dady. Some of us even have BILLS! Grow up guys...

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
Hehe! Try 11 16:1 ;)On pump gas? Riiiight... :DOriginally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
Check again dude... ZC were made all the way up till 1998! Im full of shit? Mines a 94 dumbass ;) How do you figure? What vehicle. Everywhere I have looked, the last time I see ZC is in the 92 JDM CRX Si (del Sol). What vehicle had the ZC in '98?

Was it really necessary to make 5 posts in a row? Can you just address everything in one post?

Originally posted by set 90DX/ZC
I can! Its all about the Power To Pocket ratio! Maybe some of us bust our balls tring to put together a nice little engine and dont get money from momy and dady. Some of us even have BILLS! Grow up guys...I'm sorry Seth, but what does you income have to do with a camshaft? People who get money from their parents to mod their cars are fortunate, but for the rest of us, yes, there are bills to pay, but that has nothing to do with how the engine is setup. Can you successfully argue that the second camshaft is not an important factor in tuning?

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC



Like I said thoe dude, please excuse the previouse post.:flash:


Dont worry about it man *unloads his gun*
;)

Originally posted by civic1784
I'm sorry Seth, but what does you income have to do with a camshaft? People who get money from their parents to mod their cars are fortunate, but for the rest of us, yes, there are bills to pay, but that has nothing to do with how the engine is setup. Can you successfully argue that the second camshaft is not an important factor in tuning?

Well runing a 11 16:1 ratio on pump gas is not a problem for NON vtec motors ;) Its all about that Vtec now isnt it? Are you gonna sit there and tell me that I am gonna have a motherfucker of a time tuning this thing? I'll laugh at your ass! Larry widmer of EnDyn told me IN PERSON that there wouldnt even be a problem running those in a ZC on 91 octane fuel... He said He realy would worry about it untill 13 0:1 with the ZC because of its shorter stroke... Think about it, Vtec B16 hits 8000RPM redline NON VTEC ZC hits 7200RPM's.... Anyway just to answer that hilariousness... And ferhtermore alot of that shit has to do with the shape and Squelch area's on the piston and in the cylinder/head... You gotta read up on shit if you wanna argue with me dude...
And they use ZC's in japan all the way up till 98 in the base model civic's (Basicaly the equivelent to a DX here)
It was nessessary to make 5 posts because of the ridiculoseness! Its not like all my posts are 5 words ya know! I dont think I could have gotten away with typing all this shit in one reply... Pluss no one would read all that shit unless I spread it out!
As for income having to do with camshafts... Have you looked atthe price of Vtec camshafts latley? OUTRAGEOUSE! I can get the HKS NEW Billet ones for the ZC cheaper then most of those Vtec ones.... Pluss if you only have one camshaft (Unlike me) then you only have to buy 1! As for budget having to do with engine setups... for $6000 I can get 480 to the wheels ;) with all the bells and wistles that go with it! Oh thats out of an A6 so Im assuming for that same 6K I can get at least 500 WHP.... Show me a B series that makes 500 WHP for 6k or under without the use of Nitrous, and I'll give you the HOLLY SHIT THATS BAD DUDE prize! By the way, we are talking 4th gen civics and swpa price is included. I dont wanna see and supercharged hemmi's iether fucker :D

I dont wanna see and supercharged hemmi's iether fucker

I was gonna say because you can build a small block 350 to have 500 horsepower with $1,000 :flipa:

Thatle cost more than $1000 ;) I got other projects besides my civic... Maybe one day I will post pics. Dont hate because of the 67 mustang fastback GT...
I think you were thinkin about the 357 that made almost 400 HP that came in the earlier Vets late 60's... I know someone who has a 68 Vet with one of those engine built to all hell + nos... He's pushin around 1000 Hp with a 200 HP shot... Never dyno'ed, thats an easy estimate :devil: But the car itself is buitifull!

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
Well runing a 11 16:1 ratio on pump gas is not a problem for NON vtec motors ;) Its all about that Vtec now isnt it? Are you gonna sit there and tell me that I am gonna have a motherfucker of a time tuning this thing? I'll laugh at your ass! Larry widmer of EnDyn told me IN PERSON that there wouldnt even be a problem running those in a ZC on 91 octane fuel... He said He realy would worry about it untill 13 0:1 with the

And they use ZC's in japan all the way up till 98 in the base model civic's (Basicaly the equivelent to a DX here)

It was nessessary to make 5 posts because of the ridiculoseness! Its not like all my posts are 5 words ya know! I dont think I could have gotten away with typing all this shit in one reply... Pluss no one would read all that shit unless I spread it out!

As for income having to do with camshafts... Have you looked atthe price of Vtec camshafts latley?

Show me a B series that makes 500 WHP for 6k or under without the use of Nitrous, and I'll give you the HOLLY SHIT THATS BAD DUDE prize! By the way, we are talking 4th gen civics and swpa price is included.

I dont wanna see and supercharged hemmi's iether fucker :D Okay, lets see, 16:1 on pump gas. Erick Aguilar, who currently holds the All-Motor record runs a compression ratio of 14:1. He runs on race gas. I would seriously like to see a car that runs 16:1 compression on regular pump gas that does not detonate. Also, in a simple comparison: 13.0<16.0.

Hit enter between your points, and it spaces things out, and they are easier to read.

Once again, the benefit of the second camshaft is for tuning. I am not talking about buying new ones when I am talking about the benefits. It is not related to how broke you are.

I'll look.

Since we are debating about Honda motors, why on earth would I look for a Hemi, "fucker"?

http://www.importreview.com/dyno/turbo/LS1.gif

:eek:

B16A (http://www.importreview.com/dyno/turbo/B16AT.html)

Close, not quite 500hp, though. Only 452hp. :p

Ok... 11 16:1 CR is not 16:1... I dont know were the fuck you learned to read or if you dislexic or some shit? I got two camshafts in my ZC anyway... Its a D series. Whats your point with tuning? Do you even have a point? And whats that syno got to do with anything? You think he spent less than $6000 on that? ROFL!

Why do you think everytime I mention engines with two camshafts, I always mention the ZC when I talk about these engines. Your point? As tensions run high...

Let me ask you: Does a SOHC engine respond to modifications better than a DOHC engine, and is that second camshaft superfluous to tuning?

Answer that question before talking about how much performance cams cost, because performance cams have nothing to do with the question.

And by the way, show me a chart of engines and the Japanese Civics that they apply to, I have only seen SOHC D15B's in the standard models of the Civic, and not any ZCs.

And also, I put that up to show that there are engines that can do that, I do not know what they spent though, and didn't claim to know. I don't think they spent a ridiculous amount however.

ROFL! If they didnt spend a ridiculouse amount then why does it say so on the dyno?

Anyway YOU still havent told me how you got 16:1 from 11 16:1... I think you are just cutting out the bits and pieces that YOU want to post, or at least anything to defend YOUR B series motors... When realy I can do better cheaper, longer and harder than you can with your "B".... I meen I can go town to oakland get a crack whore fuck the shit out of her, bust a nut and spend $20... Now you wanna be all fancy shmancy you can take this hot chick to the movies get her to dress up all nice and HOPE you get some pussy after you spend like $100! Shit if I dont like the crack whore i throw her out and go find a new one in ten minutes... ;) I hope this analogy helps you see thing diff...

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
ROFL! If they didnt spend a ridiculouse amount then why does it say so on the dyno?

Anyway YOU still havent told me how you got 16:1 from 11 16:1... I think you are just cutting out the bits and pieces that YOU want to post, or at least anything to defend YOUR B series motors... When realy I can do better cheaper, longer and harder than you can with your "B".... I meen I can go town to oakland get a crack whore fuck the shit out of her, bust a nut and spend $20... Now you wanna be all fancy shmancy you can take this hot chick to the movies get her to dress up all nice and HOPE you get some pussy after you spend like $100! Shit if I dont like the crack whore i throw her out and go find a new one in ten minutes... ;) I hope this analogy helps you see thing diff... Are you 12 years old? And where on the dyno does it say that they spent an outrageous amount of cash? Have you answered the question yet? No. Because the answer is that a DOHC will always be more responsive to modifications than to a SOHC.

Let me speak in your language. Lets say you get that crackwhore, have your fun, and hump the shit out of her raw. I'll take the higher class girl out for a night on the town, and have a good time. Then, I'll take her back to my place, and play Rico Suave on the pussy. Two weeks later, she'll always be come back to me, while it will burn every time you piss from all the STD's you'll get along the way, until you're dick turns black and falls off. Who's better off now?

And when have I ever said I have a B-series? I really want to know where all of you are getting this. What kind of engine do I have?

What the hell is the 11 for anyway? The numbers on each side of the ":" are the numbers that make up the ratio.

Seth, you're making this a lot of fun actually.:D

wow, so much info and steam here....... interesting thread.....

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
Check again dude... ZC were made all the way up till 1998! Im full of shit? Mines a 94 dumbass ;) Oh and I AM defending the D sereis motors because they ARE superior! The only thing the B series (Some of them) has on a D series (Some of them again) Is Dohc

RPM = Ruins Peoples Motors.Wait a moment, you claim have a '94 ZC, but in another thread, you have a D16A6...
Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
What the fuck! Know one knows anything about these engines here or what? Its a D16A6... I just need to know what would happen IF I hooked up the injector backasswards! How interesting. Also, what SOHC B-series is there?

Also, if RPM ruins people's motors, then how would you extract any power from a 2L low RPM motor? Also, it ruins people's motors, why do Honda engines last so long?

damn...he own3d joo :D . i agree...high rpm doesn't hurt ur motor. u really think that rev'n to 8k hurts the motor? its the only way to get power from a measly 1.8L motor.

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
damn...he own3d joo :D . i agree...high rpm doesn't hurt ur motor. u really think that rev'n to 8k hurts the motor? its the only way to get power from a measly 1.8L motor. Just a funny pic to go along with what you said...

Originally posted by civic1784
How interesting. Also, what SOHC B-series is there?

Also, if RPM ruins people's motors, then how would you extract any power from a 2L low RPM motor? Also, it ruins people's motors, why do Honda engines last so long?

Thats right dumbass! I got two motors! One in the front of my car and one out back ;) Dont believe me? ask greg 88CiViC_DX as in the mod... He seen it.

Some of them as in the D series being DOHC.... You can twist my words all you want dude... I will still piss on your retarded posts ;) Im not butthurt, why are you?

Well the D16A6 in my car has lasted about 10 years and its still happy :D Thats cause untill I came along no one reved the piss out of it all the time or raced it... You get a B series VTEC engine to last 10 years of service (Dont come at me with that B16A1 shit those are only used for 35000 miles) I will just shit a brick! There is no fuckin way dude! Name me one VTEC motor that hasnt had a REBUILD in 10 years... I know the 350 in the GT in my back yard runs great... same motor since 1967... It has a low redline about 5K... Its not were the power is at in the power band... It has alot more to do with the physical properties of metal called metal fatuege... See when you take two pieces of metal and rub them together @ 5000 rpms they are less likley to heat/fatuege/ware then they would @ 8000 rpms. Are you gonna tell me Im wrong? Answer this question. I see your in boston colledge so you should be able to figure this one out. By the way, when you hit 8000 Rpm's how fast are those pistons movin? A B16A1.... Do the math then come tell me its just fine to redline ;)

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
damn...he own3d joo :D . i agree...high rpm doesn't hurt ur motor. u really think that rev'n to 8k hurts the motor? its the only way to get power from a measly 1.8L motor.

How long you had your car? You just drive around for a few months and rev the piss out of it then come back and tell me that stupid shit! You kindergadeners have oubviousley never taken a physics class :rolleyes: I doubt you are even out of high school yet. LOL... RPM = friction and high loads on cylinder walls that have a tendency to vibrate under high loads... Anyone here have a posted block? I would be impressed with just a properly done block gaurd...
And if reving the piss out your engine is the only way you know to get power from it, go over to the ricers bench and shut the fuck up. This isnt YOUR argument here. You thought you smelled some good home style pussy didnt ya? Came a runnin over to get your little dick all up in someone elses argument! I'll rip you uneducated ass the fuck back son.

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
Some of them as in the D series being DOHC.... You can twist my words all you want dude... I will still piss on your retarded posts ;) Im very butthurt, why aren't you?I am just going on what you type. My ass is fine actually.

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
It has alot more to do with the physical properties of metal called metal fatuege... See when you take two pieces of metal and rub them together @ 5000 rpms they are less likley to heat/fatuege/ware then they would @ 8000 rpms. Are you gonna tell me Im wrong? Answer this question. I see your in boston colledge so you should be able to figure this one out. By the way, when you hit 8000 Rpm's how fast are those pistons movin? A B16A1.... Do the math then come tell me its just fine to redline ;) Well, first of all, it is spelled fatigue. (and its Boston *College*) And what you are actually thinking of is friction. In a longer stroke motor, there would be more stress on the metal, however, in shorter stroke motors, the enemy you speak of is friction. Enter engine oil. This marvelous invention not only helps to cool the engine by dispersing heat during its flow, it has lubricating properties. This allows you to run at high RPMs without seizing your motor. With my wonderful Boston College education, I will tell you that redlining is not the best for your engine. You see, there comes a point where HP and torque abruptly drop off. This means that there is no point to blowing past redline. Lets say you produce peace HP at 7800 RPMs, and you want to perform as well as possible. That would be your best shift point because after 7800 RPMs, your acceleration decreases. To get from point A to point B as quick as possible, you would want your acceleration to be either constant, or increasing. (Think 2 integrations of acceleration, and the tell the time take to cover a distance - Thats Calculus by the way) It doesn't really matter how fast the pistons are traveling as long as the momentum of the piston is not stronger than the normal force that is holding it to the rods, or the strength of the metals.

How much displacement does the GT have? Much more than the 1.6L Honda engine. The think is, with so little displacement, there has to be other ways to extract power from the engines. Enter gearing. If you want to get any sort of speed out of these cars for the little power they produce, you need to make them spin fast to turn the gears quickly, and then as the ratios progress in the drive train, you get something useable. You ever try burning out in 3rd gear? Its not going to happen because the engine doesn't produce the required torque. But revving high and using gearing, you can easily make it burn out in 1st gear.

And when are you going to answer the cam question?

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
You kindergadeners have oubviousley never taken a physics class :rolleyes: I doubt you are even out of high school yet. LOL... RPM = friction and high loads on cylinder walls that have a tendency to vibrate under high loads...

And if reving the piss out your engine is the only way you know to get power from it, go over to the ricers bench and shut the fuck up. This isnt YOUR argument here.I not only took physics, I did very well in it.

The load on the cylinder wall has to do with Rod/Stroke length, and oil is a useful tool against friction. I can almost guaruntee that you use it. High RPMs is the only way to get any useful power to the ground. If you can not understand that, then you obviously don't understand how a small displacement engine works. What does high RPMs have to do with Rice? Nothing. Formula cars are very high revving, should they head to the ricer's bench too? I'd like to see you tell a formula driver that. This is an open debate, and anyone's debate. It is only an argument if you become frustrated.

Just for you Seth, one more time:

Does a SOHC engine respond to modifications better than a DOHC engine, and is that second camshaft superfluous to tuning?

su·per·flu·ous
adj.
Being beyond what is required or sufficient.

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
Ok... 11 16:1 CR is not 16:1.

11:16:1? How is that? I thought it goes like double single single. NOt double double single. Ex. 11:6:1 Not 11:16:1?

Seth: let me try to understand this. Are you saying revving high is bad for the motor? Even Ami will tell you that v-tec motors are made to rev high. Also theres a guy that have a 96 gsr thats revving up to 11 grand safely! Its just that you have to build it rite! Look at www.importbuilders.com. They sell motors that handles up to 10 plus grand! Now tell me , would u guys love to have a motor that screams all the way up to 10 or 11 grand?? Shit i know i would.

Originally posted by mellowboy
They sell motors that handles up to 10 plus grand! Now tell me , would u guys love to have a motor that screams all the way up to 10 or 11 grand?? Shit i know i would. Formula racecars rev to 12000 RPM with no worries, but of course they are built and blue printed. No is anyone going to negate that cam question? It's getting awfully repetitive how I keep having to ask... There must be one person on the board that has something to say about it.:bloated:

Originally posted by civic1784
If comparing stock vs. stock is unfair, then how can you claim comparing modified vs. stock is fair? Its true, it is no secret that the B-series starts out with more horse power. That is obvious.



LMAO....

you guys just plain want to argue....god damn....i spelled it out alone and it STILL ISN"T SINKING IN. here is it again....

THIS WHOLE DEBATE IS GHEY

you said "If comparing stock vs. stock is unfair, then how can you claim comparing modified vs. stock is fair? Its true, it is no secret that the B-series starts out with more horse power. That is obvious. "

DID I EVER ONCE SAY COMPARING MODIFIED D VS> STOCK B WAS FAIR? I SAID IT WAS NO MORE FAIR THEN BUILDING A D AND TRYING TO BUILD A B FOR LESS.

maybe you don't want to argue....maybe you just have brain damage.

this has turned into NOTHING to do with engines. this has to do with you gettting in the last word.....


wheeeee! so here we go again. i just said the thread was ghey....stock b vs stock d = no fair, build d for less = no fair.....


okay now come with it, twist my words and only selective read whay i sai so you can get that last word in........

I suppose that i should have worded it then how could you claim comparing modified vs. stock is fair? It is a hypothetical statement. And its not called selective reading and twisting of your words, its called forensics.

Answer this question:
Does a SOHC engine respond to modifications better than a DOHC engine, and is that second camshaft superfluous to tuning?

Once this is answered, the debate will pretty much be over, because there is no way someone can claim that a SOHC engine is better than a DOHC engine in terms of response to modification, and seeing that the entire of line of B-series is DOHC, and the ZC is the only DOHC D, while the rest of the series is SOHC, that means that one would have more luck with a B-series.

There is no arguing here, merely debate, unless of course you got your panties in a twist over this. As far as getting the last word in, that all depends on whether or not someone can successfully show that the majority of the D-series (excluding the ZC) are better.

it took you only 13 mins for the last word that time....

okay. i'm pissing in the wind. you're not listening so i am going tolay it on the table.

i do no have my panties in a bunch over the d. matter of fact...i haven't even been defending it as you so claim. you indeed have selective reading....or a very low level of mental capacities.

you are right. i have been defensive. but that is where the selective reading come in. i have no been defending the d. in fact i have been defending the challange i threw out to try and save this stupid thread. i said from the start the challange was DIFFICULT. a stock b vs. a stock d = not difficult challange. you had the option to either try and meet the challange with the dyno.....or not join in at all.

since you have such selective reading.....let me lay my replies out you have seemed to miss....

this debate is retarded. you can ask sohc non vtec vs. dohc vtec. thats apples and oranges. the 2 engines are completely different tuning wise, money wise, and difficulty of installation.

you should be asking about d vs d or b vs b.

this debate = stupid. however, i figured i would stir the pot a little and throw out a challange for all the b series people

so, if you care to throw up a dyno sheet of any b series (just as i did for anything that falls under the "d" catagory) that can put out high whp for under $2500 then i am talking to you.....

if not then you are chasing your tail. duh, of cousre unlimited money = faster b series

i said this was stupid from the start. sohc no vtec vs. doch vtec.....

i know! i'm gonna go box mike tyson.....think i'll K.O. his azz?

who arguing? i'm tried throwing out a challange....

dohc has more hp stock over d series stock. no brainer with unlimited funds it's faster. thats not the challange. the challange is to provide a dyno for a b series set-up which has 178 or more hp with the total cost of $2500 or less spent. that is truly a challange. b series faster than d series with mad $$$ spent is not a challange.


again...i said this thread topic is stupid from the start. i just wanted to see if anyone could meet the challange. i'm still open to someone posting up a dyno. it is deffinately not going to be easy to find.

a person's engine choice should be based on their personal knowledge, money flow, and their parts avalible. not every person's sitituation is the same.

i was just trying to salvage the thread with a debate

my point was this. for the same difficulty and the same amount of money as the "easy 130 out of the box" b16, you can have an even faster d series with the same level of difficulty to drop in (engine drops in...turbo adds difficulty) and the same money spent.

bottom line....it depends on the person doing the swap.

for the 50th time.....this thread was ghey from post 1. it is no fair to compare a b16 to a d16 hp wise like it isn't fair to compare $$$ wise d vs b.

guess what......news flash......I LIKE D SERIES.....who would of guessed????

guess what.....stock b vs stock d = unfair

guess what....hooking up a d is cheaper

CAN I MAKE IT ANY MORE CLEAR?

now if you want to keep saying i like d series. and if you want to keep saying a d is cheaper to work on....and the b has more hp to start...then feel free, but it's no secret or news

now quit saying i'm all about the "d".....quit saying i'm defending the "d" you need to take a look in the mirror and re read what you say.

i'm sorry you are confusing a difficult challange with your selective reading. the only thing i have been defending is a valid challange. you just keep on assuming all i care about is d series.

and since you know OH SO MUCH ABOUT ME.....i have a d16y8. yes i sure do...because my d16a6 needed to be replaced. my husband is ordering a b16 for his 4th gen. but you knew that because i issued a challange, right? it's okay...keep drawing conclusions about me and my sitituation :licker:




who wants to bet me $5 the next reply says something about me defending the d series......

lol...it is selective reading...i just figured it out.

everytime i say stock d vs. stock b = unfair just the same as building a d for less $$$ isn't fair....

you are reading "blah, blah, blah, i defend d series" and then you reply with some big old b series defense.

don't believe me? go back and read all 11 pages :eek:

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC


How long you had your car? You just drive around for a few months and rev the piss out of it then come back and tell me that stupid shit! You kindergadeners have oubviousley never taken a physics class :rolleyes: I doubt you are even out of high school yet. LOL... RPM = friction and high loads on cylinder walls that have a tendency to vibrate under high loads... Anyone here have a posted block? I would be impressed with just a properly done block gaurd...
And if reving the piss out your engine is the only way you know to get power from it, go over to the ricers bench and shut the fuck up. This isnt YOUR argument here. You thought you smelled some good home style pussy didnt ya? Came a runnin over to get your little dick all up in someone elses argument! I'll rip you uneducated ass the fuck back son.

so my b18c1 that would beat ur ZC motor is rice? high rpm are achieved w/ a shorter stroke, an my 94 has no problems getting up and moving. rev the shit outta any motor an push it to its limits, an it'll break down quicker then if u jus drive between 1-4k everyday. ur talkin about rev'n the shit outta a motor as the only way to get power? o...sorry, didn't realize that 7200 wasn't a high rev'n motor :rolleyes: .

o, an bought the car w/ 106,000 miles, an i've been racing it atleast once a week, an takeit up to 8k daily, yet...it still runs strong. u back up ur "arguements" with insults that a child would make. grow up an once ur ready to actually make some valid points then get back on the board.

had the car for 4 months btw, so it should be shittin out any second rite? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mellowboy


11:16:1? How is that? I thought it goes like double single single. NOt double double single. Ex. 11:6:1 Not 11:16:1?

I will explain again, this time I will make it verry simple so you understand. 11.16:1 NOT 11:16:1 and those pistons your talkin about 11.6:1 are actualy 11.60:1 Because the mesrument of the CR is much more accurate from the company I buy my internals from.
I will not denny that a second camshaft adds alot more tuning abilities... I increases HP as well because you can off set them (Like the come from the fact) to cycle more efficiantly. Ya happy? I got two camshafts in my ZC and its a D series motor so I realy see no point in this argument which is why I never said shit.

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00


so my b18c1 that would beat ur ZC motor is rice? high rpm are achieved w/ a shorter stroke, an my 94 has no problems getting up and moving. rev the shit outta any motor an push it to its limits, an it'll break down quicker then if u jus drive between 1-4k everyday. ur talkin about rev'n the shit outta a motor as the only way to get power? o...sorry, didn't realize that 7200 wasn't a high rev'n motor :rolleyes: .

o, an bought the car w/ 106,000 miles, an i've been racing it atleast once a week, an takeit up to 8k daily, yet...it still runs strong. u back up ur "arguements" with insults that a child would make. grow up an once ur ready to actually make some valid points then get back on the board.

I see some with I/H/E that thinks he knows something about building engines to go fast... I think you would be scared shitless if you took the valve cover off you motor without a mechanic there to help you get it back on...

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
had the car for 4 months btw, so it should be shittin out any second rite? :rolleyes:

I give at about a year and a half to two years the way you drive it. :flipa:

this thread is retarded. you are all retarded. it will never end. B series is better than D series and THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

btw, funny how you have 2 engines, i was thinking the same thing.... somebody is full of shit. :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :finger: :devil:

Originally posted by 91civicDXdude
this thread is retarded. you are all retarded. it will never end. B series is better than D series and THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE.



so 91civicDXdude does this mean your defending "your precious b"....

:flipa:

:hehe:

no it means that im saying B series is better than D series.

If D series were so much better then you would think that honda would use them as the "performance" engine instead of a b series.

Originally posted by 91civicDXdude
no it means that im saying B series is better than D series.

If D series were so much better then you would think that honda would use them as the "performance" engine instead of a b series.

slow down speed racer....it was a joke....

you drive a sohc vtec = funny comment "your precious b"

:flipa: haven't i been saying its a no brainer that b series has more HP? :flipa:

b16a1 stock redlines at 8100, i should hope it was designed for performance. nobody is saying the b isn't superior. people just did not understand the challange. it was just a challange to do something hard....get 178whp for less than $2500 out of a b. that IS NOT hard to do in a d...no challange there.

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi




b16a1 stock redlines at 8100.

8200:D


I wonder what moppie have to say in all this? He always come up with good pointers.

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
now quit saying i'm all about the "d".....quit saying i'm defending the "d" you need to take a look in the mirror and re read what you say.

and since you know OH SO MUCH ABOUT ME.....i have a d16y8. yes i sure do...because my d16a6 needed to be replaced. my husband is ordering a b16 for his 4th gen. but you knew that because i issued a challange, right? it's okay...keep drawing conclusions about me and my sitituation :licker:

who wants to bet me $5 the next reply says something about me defending the d series...... I hope that no one took that bet. Just to clue you in, I didn't say that you were defending your precious D after you made your case that you weren't.

The only things I know about you are things that you have said in your posts. Are you going to quit your whiny bitching about the wording of things and answer the question that was asked.

Does a SOHC engine respond to modifications better than a DOHC engine, and is that second camshaft superfluous to tuning?

Originally posted by civic1784


Does a SOHC engine respond to modifications better than a DOHC engine, and is that second camshaft superfluous to tuning?

here we go with the selective reading again....

did i ever SAY the dohc DOES NOT respond well to modifications? i said several times it's a no brainer that with unlimited funds a b could be made faster.

selective reading again. i left this quote and you must not have read it the second time. maybe if i post it all alone you will read it the third time...


so, if you care to throw up a dyno sheet of any b series (just as i did for anything that falls under the "d" catagory) that can put out high whp for under $2500 then i am talking to you.....

if not then you are chasing your tail. duh, of cousre unlimited money = faster b series


and i said that more than once in other ways as well. you for some reason are trying to put words in my mouth for sake of argument.

was the challange.....does the b respond to modifications? NO! the difficult challange was to find a b series that puts 178 (or more) to the wheels for a total cost of $2500

so, you going to get that one last word in again about something i never said nor claimed?

i think ya'll should just give it up and let it go... i don't see this getting anywhere at all

Originally posted by jeef
i think ya'll should just give it up and let it go... i don't see this getting anywhere at all

i was trying to let it go for the others who were stilling throwing in relevant info.

but you are right. i'm going to keep having words put in my mouth....i'm going to have to keep defending myself against the stuff i never said.