B16 vs D16

ahah oh well ....


umm someone put a NSX engine in a 4th gen then we can all shut up lol :bloated:

Originally posted by MKS2
ahah oh well ....


umm someone put a NSX engine in a 4th gen then we can all shut up lol :bloated:

been done.....well really a 2nd gen rex but close enough

so then lets not argue about these little engines hehe ... lets all get NSX engines :)... there r gonna be tones of them just hanging around with nothing to do :)

who arguing? i'm tried throwing out a challange....

dohc has more hp stock over d series stock. no brainer with unlimited funds it's faster. thats not the challange. the challange is to provide a dyno for a b series set-up which has 178 or more hp with the total cost of $2500 or less spent. that is truly a challange. b series faster than d series with mad $$$ spent is not a challange.

btw: i'm working on getting the dyno sheet for a $2200 sohc vtec. all motor. 160whp. since civic1784 doesn't like dohc turbo dyno. ;)

c'mon guys. don't give me opinion. lets turn this retarded subject into an actual debate.

wheeeee! the nsx has a b series.....
http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/images/badassbuddy_com-ezlyamused.gif that is why we should all get one right? :evillaugh

Originally posted by MKS2
so then lets not argue about these little engines hehe ... lets all get NSX engines :)... there r gonna be tones of them just hanging around with nothing to do :) ok lets all get rid of your systems and put up a firewall behind the driver seat and spend atleast 5,000 on suspension and drivetrain and then swap in engines with 100,000+ on them!!

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi


yes i am. you're missing it. the $2500 has to include the engine. so it's a hella lot more than $500 now isn't it? that 178whp zc is $2000 for complete set-up.....engine and ALL.

let me spell it out for you....

you show me a dyno sheet for any b series engine + whatever set-up with 178whp for the total dollar amount spent of $2500 or less

MKS2, we're not talking unlimited funds. this whole debate of d16 vs b16 is ghey. like i said before....2 different $$ factors, 2 different tuning factors, and 2 different installation factors.

however, people keep saying b series is easier because it has 130whp out of the box. it is not easier. you have to use different motor mounts, tranny, shift linkage, and so on. how can that be easier than an engine that bolts right in? especially when that engine can have 178whp for the same amount of money or less.




she knows what she is talking about.


you will spend much more money on a b than you would a d.
Liz

Originally posted by civicHBsi91
ok lets all get rid of your systems and put up a firewall behind the driver seat and spend atleast 5,000 on suspension and drivetrain and then swap in engines with 100,000+ on them!!

well shit if i'm just paying 5000 for the suspension and drivetain + engine that sounds like a helluva a deal... rebuild that puppy and have a grand ol time

Originally posted by mellowboy
My lord i'm at your service!;)
LOL... but why do i hear mockery in your voice?:D

On with the battle... Well, I am not negating that the D-series motor can not be tuned successfully, I am merely stating that the setup is different. Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to find any HP charts for the setup I am about to propose: A nitrous system.

If you aren't in a rush, and are willing to talk to people, you can usually find deals on things.

Engine: $1500.00
Mounting kit: $300.00
Nitrous Kit: $600.00
------------------------------------------
Total: $2400.00

Additional Costs:
25lbs of Nitrous @ $4.00/lbs: $100.00
------------------------------------------
Grand Total: $2500.00

Engine HP: 160hp
Nitrous Kit: 75hp (depending on what you find)
------------------------------------------
Total: 235hp @ the flywheel, which translates to right around 200hp at the wheels. (Manual Transmission)


Also, the NSX does NOT have a B-series. It has a C32... which makes it a C-series. But you can still swap that if you want.

I wouldnt trade my si motor for anything, Last night i went to mcdonalds and i seen a 96-00..black coupe and a 2000 golf gti. So i roll up and was like whats up, i ask,is that GTI fast..he was like yea, so i was like u wanna run me..He SAID OK..,So we get on the I-95, going like towards queens...he was ahead of me..so i just flew by him..I slowed down and waited,,then he flew past me!...then i gave chase, we was dipping for about 5 mins..i was on his ass, then he mad the wrong dip, then flew rite pass him ,..so me and my friend are so happy,Then all of a sudden this 94-2000 teg,rolls up behind me flashing me...I was like oh shit, vrooom!,he flew by..i was like its on!!!,DOWN shift to 3rd..rev the rpm the 8.AND I CHIRP going to 4th gear!! Anyways im on his ass,so i was like doing like a buck and some change on the bitch ass...so then he gets in the far right and im in the far left, I hit 5th gear and it was all over..!! Then traffic ws coming then i down shift to 3rd..so he behind me still going at it...I was doing a 110 in 3rd gear!..Hit 4th again...I DID THE WHOLE DASH IN 4TH GEAR..I WAS SHOCKED!!!!! anyways it was a good race...Now my RPM gauge dont work..How do it fix it?

this will go on forever. its true that a d can be faster for cheaper, but its also true that you can get more power out of a b. its all about opinons. you cant change anyones opinion

for me i want a daily driver, but i also want about 400hp on tap with pump gas, if a d could do that, then i would go d. idk if you could find a daily driver 400hp pump gas d series. i know it can be doen with b series so thats the only reason why i am going b series

if i only wanted 300hp then i would go z6 turbo

Another thing to consider is how high are you going to go?

The more HP you try to extract, the harder it becomes, and the more it costs, so there will be a point where it will start to cost less with the B-series.

I did not mean we should all get NSX engines cos they r B series (oops missed the bit about it being a c series)... i just ment get them cos they r blooming fast :)


and yeah i think the only way anyone could spend that cash on a b series engine and get it upto that power, is if they had the engine given to them :) or jsut happened to know someone with one gonig real cheap :) and then im not sure how well they take to a turbo without some major mods to the internals :) have been told that the d series r better for turbos... aint too sure on that one oh well :)

sorry about all this NSX stuff hehe i think i fell in love with them ... u see i got to sit in one yesterday :) ... i have sat in a testarosser before and yeah that was better but hay... i think the NSX is a bit more real :)

Originally posted by civic1784

Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to find any HP charts for the setup I am about to propose: A nitrous system.



c'mon. you can't do better than nos? hell, i'll stick some nos on. and work the internals for $2400. right?

lol, at least someone caught the nsx not being a b series!

again...i said this thread topic is stupid from the start. i just wanted to see if anyone could meet the challange. i'm still open to someone posting up a dyno. it is deffinately not going to be easy to find.

a person's engine choice should be based on their personal knowledge, money flow, and their parts avalible. not every person's sitituation is the same.

.....was just trying to salvage the thread with a debate.

well cant really say too much anymore cos i no longer have my civic... but my D14 was one hell of a strang engine and that thing had some thrashing i tell u .. it was capable of doing over 120mph :) my mate had a speed sensor kinda like what the cops use... he clocked me at 123mph :) and that was with 3 people in the car :).. i think if i replaced the carbs with twin 45 webbers then i think i would have been whooping most bad boys in there little Golfs and silly fiestas, and pug 205s and the like :)... honda rules the world when it comes to small fast engines... humm maybe the susuki swit has a faster small engine 1.3 at 100bhp but oh well :)... in fact the honda engines r sooo good the mini boys over here have started putting vtec engines in there little cars lol .. i bet they blooming fly...

Originally posted by 91BLKsi
Then all of a sudden this 94-2000 teg,rolls up behind me flashing me...I was like oh shit, vrooom!,he flew by..i was like its on!!!,DOWN shift to 3rd..rev the rpm the 8.AND I CHIRP going to 4th gear!! Anyways im on his ass,so i was like doing like a buck and some change on the bitch ass...so then he gets in the far right and im in the far left, I hit 5th gear and it was all over..!!

Ok, your SI motor cannot possibly be close to stock if you are beating tegs. What do you got?

And to respond to your post about "taking my four door" im sure you could seeing as I weigh more and am limited by DPFI ... generally RICERS come back with comments like that.

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
c'mon. you can't do better than nos? hell, i'll stick some nos on. and work the internals for $2400. right?

lol, at least someone caught the nsx not being a b series!
Nope. If you are putting a $400 nitrous kit on, you won't have to build your internals. That will buy you a dinky 35 shot dry kit. So no, you won't do that for $400. That isn't even factoring in the internals you speak of.

(Edit: And as far as doing better than Nitrous Oxide, what is wrong with that? It is a very valid performance upgrade, for the drag-minded.)

And yes, I was actually kind of shocked how many people followed your mistake. When you think about it, for an $80,000.00 car, do you think Honda would waste their time with a B?

Originally posted by Melt
Ok, your SI motor cannot possibly be close to stock if you are beating tegs. What do you got?
:D
Originally posted by Civic1784
would that be a Civic Si, or Prelude Si engine? And does on the jump mean rolling start? (ricer fly-by: when someone with a much more powerful car driving at the speed limit is passed by a car with no where near the potential doing 20 plus over. Rice then claims victory. )

I only have a ecu chip,intake,headers,stage 3 clutch and a monster some where..nothing more..Melt i swear to good i beat the teg..thats the 2nd g3 i have beaten!!

man those engines come 1.8.and im running 1.6!!!! MUAHAHA.

Ls/VTEC is only made of B series motors, an it will put down more then 178hp to the ground. :D . OR u can put a 75 shot on a B16, an u'll put down more power then 178 (may hurt the motor, but still will put down the bigger numbers). i didn't say that relying on VTEC is a good thing to do, i was simply saying the with the SOHC motors, u WON'T ever rely on it, which is good, because it isn't something u should rely on.

u can get quick motors out of a D series or a B series motor. it is jus wutever u want to do, an how u want to go about it. heh, take this over to the teg forums, an u'll find different answers there. i'd say this place is a lil biased, but s'all good, i'd have pride in a D series motor if i had one also.

i caught your B series mistake it just wasent on my mind to correct you at that point

and melt he might be telling the truth....he seems a bit weird tho but not every motor from the factory comes out the same

Originally posted by SiZ


Don't assume that all people who have nice things do either.. I work fuckin' hard for my shit.

I think that a ZC would have more potential than a D16 too, but there is a huge lack in aftermarket support for them.. Thats why I originally had a ZC because I believed in the potential, but I ditched it because I got frustrated trying to find parts for a build.

I believe that with Honda motors DOHC is the way to go if you want to mod them. (especially NA) Thats why I've had a ZC and now I have the B16. I agree that a lot of people just grab B16s because of the "ooh ahh" factor of saying that they have VTEC... When I had the ZC I was the exact same way as you, a hater. But once you get behind the wheel and the car just takes right off at 5500rpm with a smooth scream all the way past 8000 there is no way not to love the B16.

B series are great. Money wise no... Aftermarket suport for ZC not alot... However if you had done some reaserch instead of spending $xxxx on buying a B16 and installing/having installed you would have found that you can get aftermarket EVERYTHING for thr DOHC ZC motor... The ONLY thing I havent found yet is aftermarket rocker arms... I will probably just buy them new from honda $200... But if you willing to spend the $$$ on building a ZC you might as well go with a B16a... Unless you already have one ;) Then again, some people have a vendeta against B series motors "Blowing up on them" Which has never hapend to THEM with a d series..... ;) ;)

Originally posted by civicHBsi91
and melt he might be telling the truth....he seems a bit weird tho but not every motor from the factory comes out the same

Yea, I know every once in a while there are cars that will pull exceptionally hard ... fishcat37's friend from IL has one, I forget the guys name, but he has a 95 dx 4 door auto and he was suprised that he was beating some people.

Originally posted by silver89civic
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/22838/index.html

sweeet, havent seen this one before ;)

very nice post... and thanks!

okay here is some tid bits of info and late night thoughts....

if your looking to bulid a motor for under 2500$ then dont worrie about power worrie about $$$ and do wat ever D or B both can be dun for under 2500

now you wana a motor that has power and alows you to add power along the way??? Get a B any B!!! You get a D youll tap it out quick for power i would never in my life Turbo a D motor its poitless to have a turbo motor you cant boost over 4 pounds of bost in and hope it to last long

i know there are a few people out there that bost more on stock internals and wat ever but for real a D wont hold it compard to a B motor if you turn it up more (thats stock motor)

AND DONT compare any drag civic runing the circut in any of thies talks non of them run stok anything and are way past 2500$$$

Now you wana look at history of Racing EFs then all JDM race EFs are eather runing B16 or B18c5 thats FACT!!! and there is a reason for that to they are 2 of the best motors honda has made with alot of power to be found in them
If the ZC was good they would use them but i raely see ZCs in any RACE EF in Japan

now you wana talk Vtec haha you put Vtec Killer Cams in a B youll kill a Turbo D motor i seen it in person

LsVtec will kill most any thing out there but you have to have them made right or it will blow up as easy as a turbo car plain and simple and alot quicker to

So if you want reliable POWER in a motor get a B fuk the cost save up foo !!!!!
you wana be "diffrent" turbo a D motor
you just on a budget..... hunt and find what ever is in that budget then. be it B or D

but for most people your never happy with the motor you alway want more power when you get use to the power of what ever you end up geting so get something you can add to in the future not some thing thats going to make you king of the block that month cuz next month that kid that decided to save just woopd your buttt hahahahah

got displacement????

Originally posted by EF9JDM
now you wana a motor that has power and alows you to add power along the way??? Get a B any B!!! You get a D youll tap it out quick for power i would never in my life Turbo a D motor its poitless to have a turbo motor you cant boost over 4 pounds of bost in and hope it to last long

got displacement????

Now to play devil's advocate:

Two things: It is possible to run over 4lbs boost, and actually, if you wanted, you could run a whole lot more. If you drilled and tapped your block, you can use longer studs to hold the head on, and then you can handle more boost.

And displacement, many of the B-series are larger, but the most popular of both series are 1.6L, so for a majority, displacement can be a non-issue.

Originally posted by EF9JDM
LsVtec will kill most any thing out there but you have to have them made right or it will blow up as easy as a turbo car plain and simple and alot quicker to

Irvin (EF_LSVtec)'s car is a living testament to that ... I cant say it enough ... DAMN that thing is FAST

Originally posted by EF9JDM
okay here is some tid bits of info and late night thoughts....



uh-ohhhh......daylight lurking in the shawdows. waiting for everybody to go to sleep to position himself to play a little late night masacre....


http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/images/badassbuddy_com-stealth.gif

however, you left the job incomplete....mission failed. i see no dyno.....and don't post that "put together for less than cost" crap :finger:

Ami i still dont think its fair to compare a modded engine to STOCK. I don't care if you can mod a d series cheaper and comes out the same cost as a b-series swap. ITs just not fair. Now since u have d series and i have b. Lets just say we both have like 3g's to spend on our motor after the swap was done. Now that comparison would be fair .

what about theCHALLENGE factor here?

is it not more of a challenge to do a D than a B? am i wrong here?!

and as far as always "wanting more power" this is true in most cases. wheather it's a D or a B. where do you draw the line? i mean once you max out the civic do you sell it and move on to something bigger and better. if you are a true civic hatch lover most likely you will not. if you got money you may move on to something bigger. but where is the fun in that? IMO making something fast that most ppl wouldn't think could be done is the better part of the deal and still keeping it street legal.

i wouldn't want a complete fiberglass car that runs 9s or 10s if i couldn't drive it on the street. that's not what i am in this for.

Originally posted by mellowboy
Ami i still dont think its fair to compare a modded engine to STOCK. I don't care if you can mod a d series cheaper and comes out the same cost as a b-series swap. ITs just not fair. Now since u have d series and i have b. Lets just say we both have like 3g's to spend on our motor after the swap was done. Now that comparison would be fair .

that was my WHOLE point. the b series people were saying to just get a b16...its an easy 130whp out of the box. how can you compare dropping in a b16 compared to a d16. 2 different hp, 2 different swap methods, and yada, yada...

my point was this. for the same difficulty and the same amount of money as the "easy 130 out of the box" b16, you can have an even faster d series with the same level of difficulty to drop in (engine drops in...turbo adds difficulty) and the same money spent.

bottom line....it depends on the person doing the swap.

i issued a challange....was not met. but i didn't expect it to ;)

so mellowboy, you think it's fair to compare a d16a6 to a b16a1? about as fair as a 10psi zc to that same b16, huh?

lol....we all know the day you swap in a d is the day i swap in a b :evillaugh

we all know the day you swap in a d is the day i swap in a b the only B i would touch is a b18c ;)

Originally posted by hotgrlzracin
what about theCHALLENGE factor here?

is it not more of a challenge to do a D than a B? am i wrong here?!

and as far as always "wanting more power" this is true in most cases. wheather it's a D or a B. where do you draw the line? i mean once you max out the civic do you sell it and move on to something bigger and better. if you are a true civic hatch lover most likely you will not. if you got money you may move on to something bigger. but where is the fun in that? IMO making something fast that most ppl wouldn't think could be done is the better part of the deal and still keeping it street legal.

i wouldn't want a complete fiberglass car that runs 9s or 10s if i couldn't drive it on the street. that's not what i am in this for.

OK so b-series isn't a challenge? Or am i missing something here?:confused:

no i think the point is :) its cheaper and easier to go with d, but in the end u get more power with b.... but tis not as easy to fit and costs a lot more :)

mybe im wong, but i think at least a bit of that statement is right :)

i am not saying it's not a challenge. we all know the difficulty of doing a swap period.

i talking about the fact that a d is less commen than a b. everyone does b if they can get ahold of it for the right price or if they can afford it. and most ppl will say "why waist your time on a d". i say why not take the challenge and build what most wouldn't. thats all i am saying.

if someone told me i could have a whole b swap for free or a whole d w/turbo and everything else needed to make it fast and work properly for free i would have a tough choice to make. right now i couldn't tell you what i would take. i mean i just don't know. i would like to take the b cuz it's not a cheap easy swap to come by. then again to have a d that would be just as fast and amaze ppl due to it's rareity would be exciting also.

i hope this makes sense.

this is just my opinion. and i think i am done with this topic. i have nothing to prove.......

thanks for the ears though...

I think its a diff kind of swap anyway, everyone around here that has a rex/hatch you ask them what they are doing for performance the 1st thing they say is b16 whether they know how much it is or not they say b16, everyone has one or wants one, then they ask me what im doing i say d16 and they look at me funny because they dont know the potential of a D series motor, its just not uncommon anymore to see a car with a D powering it....around here anyway

Originally posted by civicHBsi91
.....its just not uncommon anymore to see a car with a D powering it....around here anyway

well shit, i want to move to your state if all the 4th gens are stock b16 and they are all swapping in d series. thanks, now i don't feel so special with my d powered 4th gen




....i'm sorry, i just couldn't pass it up ;) :licker:

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
i issued a challange....was not met. but i didn't expect it to ;)


LsVTEC doesn't meet it? pshh...it'll put more then 170 to the wheels an u can get it done for 2500. ur challenge was more then met, it was passed.

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00


LsVTEC doesn't meet it? pshh...it'll put more then 170 to the wheels an u can get it done for 2500. ur challenge was more then met, it was passed.


has a dyno sheet been provided of an actual b series setup with less than $2500 total spent?

my challange WAS NOT met....WAS NOT passed.....

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
has a dyno sheet been provided of an actual b series setup with less than $2500 total spent?

my challange WAS NOT met....WAS NOT passed.....
Well, all you keep going on about it the money. Lets face it, the engine that you are working with is atleast 12 years old, so of course it didn't cost that much. As time goes on, the value depreciates, and you end up with a relatively inexpensive engine. Second, the engine that you chose has an entirely different head than the rest of the D-series, and is more like a B-series because of its set-up. I am still waiting for your SOHC set-up that achieves like the ZC. Well, here is a stock LS/VTEC set-up. Nothing special. LS Bottom, B16A Head:

http://www.importreview.com/dyno/1.8/JUN3SAE.gif

Enjoy.

anyone know how much irvin (EF_LSVtec) has into his setup?

bam hows that ls vtec setup 200hp, i just refeel in love with the lsvtec setup. i was hesitant before and i lost interest, but i am back into it now

Originally posted by hotgrlzracin
what about theCHALLENGE factor here?

is it not more of a challenge to do a D than a B? am i wrong here?!

and as far as always "wanting more power" this is true in most cases. wheather it's a D or a B. where do you draw the line? i mean once you max out the civic do you sell it and move on to something bigger and better. if you are a true civic hatch lover most likely you will not. if you got money you may move on to something bigger. but where is the fun in that? IMO making something fast that most ppl wouldn't think could be done is the better part of the deal and still keeping it street legal.

i wouldn't want a complete fiberglass car that runs 9s or 10s if i couldn't drive it on the street. that's not what i am in this for.

Well fuk being street legal! All you gotta do is "PASS" smog $100, and not be an idiot!!! You can drive a fiberglass car on the street! Mine has one seat and no interior and is loud as fawk! Its all about being smart and knowing when to get on it and be heard and when not to! For me its like star wars, and were the rebels! A mustang can drive about with a borla exaust no cat and as loud as a harley and pigs will give it a thumbs up! WTF!!! If a cop ever heard my screaming ass civic @ 6500 Rpms he would pull me over in a flash (Course I would also be speeding or breaking traction) So thats my whole idea on the situation of "Street Legal"

I would have to agree with you that its all about making something out of nothing... Which is why I am using a D series motor in my buildup ;) For the kind of money Im droping in this ZC I could have already bought a whole B16 Changeover with mounts. But Im gonna smoke B16's (With I/H/E) After I finish my buildup then when I add the nitrous I will smoke turbo B16's at 3/4's the cost... So what up with that?

Originally posted by civic1784

Well, all you keep going on about it the money. Lets face it, the engine that you are working with is atleast 12 years old, so of course it didn't cost that much. As time goes on, the value depreciates, and you end up with a relatively inexpensive engine. Second, the engine that you chose has an entirely different head than the rest of the D-series, and is more like a B-series because of its set-up. I am still waiting for your SOHC set-up that achieves like the ZC. Well, here is a stock LS/VTEC set-up. Nothing special. LS Bottom, B16A Head:

http://www.importreview.com/dyno/1.8/JUN3SAE.gif

Enjoy.

heh...couldn't have put it any better...such a beautiful dyno sheet...stock...

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC


But Im gonna smoke B16's (With I/H/E)

I'm sorry but thats not enough to beat a b16.

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
heh...couldn't have put it any better...such a beautiful dyno sheet...stock... I have more where that came from, but unfortunately, those set-ups are a little bit pricier, but once this debate is settled, if anyone wants to see some nice dyno runs of some LS/VTECs, then I've got the hook up. :p

I did mean to put stock in quotation marks though, seeing that the engine itself is a hybrid.

**Edit** Mellowboy, my follower, you got to back that up with proof. Simply put, for the 5hp increase of those three components, that doesn't get someone near the 160hp of a stock B16A. We aren't talking about a K20 that gets a 20hp increase from and intake (which is crazy, btw), and the numbers just won't add up. Maybe if you up your compression to like 11.2 maybe.

Originally posted by civic1784


We aren't talking about a K20 that gets a 20hp increase from and intake (which is crazy, btw), and the numbers just won't add up. Maybe if you up your compression to like 11.2 maybe.

Yeh i saw an article that they just put i/h/e and that added 18 the wheels! That is damn good!

Oh by the way. My friend has ctr pistons with intake and itr mid pipe for his 5th gen hatchie. He also got a fields v-tec controller. All that doesn't even add up to 700 bucks and he put 151 to the ground! I think its pretty impressive. Oh its a first gen b16.:)

Originally posted by civic1784

Well, all you keep going on about it the money. Lets face it, the engine that you are working with is atleast 12 years old, so of course it didn't cost that much. As time goes on, the value depreciates, and you end up with a relatively inexpensive engine.

hmmm, so my 2 year old d16 is old? ROTFL!

i guess i'll have to take that dyno as it is the best that is going to get. however, i have yet to find a LSVtec set-up that can be put into a 4th gen for less than $2500.

don't forget....and that's giving the b a $500 handicap. the dyno i posted up was $2000. :evillaugh

why all the excuses? we're not saying "ooo...well u have a turbo an ours is N/A" the ls/vtec is a legit motor, an it can be done under 2500, or tell my frien w/ his ls/vtec diff maybe? i mean...first u say its not met, then when we more then meet it, u say make excuses of why it doesn't work. it IS under 2500, and if u didn't want it up to 2500, then u should have said so from the beginning. face it, overall, the b series motors can be faster with the same amount of money. wut about the nitrous on the b16? does that not work either? this is pointless to even try if ur gonna come up w/ lame comebacks for everything we post. its over, ur challenge was met.

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
why all the excuses? we're not saying "ooo...well u have a turbo an ours is N/A" the ls/vtec is a legit motor, an it can be done under 2500, or tell my frien w/ his ls/vtec diff maybe? i mean...first u say its not met, then when we more then meet it, u say make excuses of why it doesn't work. it IS under 2500, and if u didn't want it up to 2500, then u should have said so from the beginning. face it, overall, the b series motors can be faster with the same amount of money. wut about the nitrous on the b16? does that not work either? this is pointless to even try if ur gonna come up w/ lame comebacks for everything we post. its over, ur challenge was met.

first off no excuses. i did say that the b series got $2500. i'm just saying. the other was $2000.

i'm sorry but you're waiting around for the very best killer deals of all time to get EVERYTHING needed to do that. i'm not talking $2500 for the engine. $2500 for everything to make it turn key.

like i said..i'll take that dyno because it's the closest i'll get.

no, i'm not taking NOS as an answer. i can stick NOS on a d series too. that is ghey.

what i find really funny is how PERSONAL you all are taking this. :spit:
for the 50th time.....this thread was ghey from post 1. it is no fair to compare a b16 to a d16 hp wise like it isn't fair to compare $$$ wise d vs b.

er...it was 2500 for everything to turn the key. u talk about NITROUS being "ghey," how so? jus cuz is cheap power? if it were more like 2-3k, then not as many ppl would take that stance. speed is speed, thats the point of mod'n an engine, to get it to go faster. ur the one who said that we weren't going to find a b series motor set-up for the same amount of money so now u back down? im not gettin defensive, but u seem to be a little kno-it-all who won't accept when she isn't rite about something.

take that dyno, not because its the closest u'll get, but because it IS a proven method that will blow the doors off a turbo ZC motor within ur price limit.

Originally posted by KrNxRaCer00
er...it was 2500 for everything to turn the key. u talk about NITROUS being "ghey," how so? jus cuz is cheap power? if it were more like 2-3k, then not as many ppl would take that stance. speed is speed, thats the point of mod'n an engine, to get it to go faster. ur the one who said that we weren't going to find a b series motor set-up for the same amount of money so now u back down? im not gettin defensive, but u seem to be a little kno-it-all who won't accept when she isn't rite about something.



hahaha, see what i mean. PERSONALLY.

i didn't say NOS in general is ghey. using that as the "challange met" is ghey.

"i'm not getting defensive" says the only person with his panties in a bunch

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi
hmmm, so my 2 year old d16 is old? ROTFL!You didn't post a dyno of your 2 year old D16. You posted a dyno of a ZC, and last time I checked, the last time they were stock in any car was in '92 in Japan. The way you are bashing on the B-series for nitrous and all, I am starting to think you are very closed minded and potentially ignorant to the fact that the B-series is just an all around better motor. Sorry it's price can be a little more than you want to spend, but in general, its a better engine.

Besides, if I wanted to, I could piece together a turbo kit well within the price range. Are you so steadfast to defend your precious D-series because it is what you own and you don't want to be offended, or is it just that you think it is a superior engine?

It is by no means superior, and I'm not trying to flame, but you must understand that things can be done cheaply, and as far as a swap being challenging - Hell no. Its about 4 hours of moving an engine around, hooking up wiring, vacuum tubing, and assorted odds and ends. It's not as big a deal as you make it out to be.

You may still be waiting for other dynos, but I am still waiting for the dyno of a SOHC D-series. Please, don't keep us waiting.

:eek:

Originally posted by civic1784
Are you so steadfast to defend your precious D-series because it is what you own and you don't want to be offended, or is it just that you think it is a superior engine?


You may still be waiting for other dynos, but I am still waiting for the dyno of a SOHC D-series. Please, don't keep us waiting.



you think you know me...lol. i defend my "precious d" no more than you defend your "precious B." have i ONCE claimed my engine to be "fast" or "superior"....have i even mentioned my engine. nope. oh yea, that was YOU.

again, i find humor in how nobody can take a challange. everyone takes it all personal...getting all defensive. afraid of a little debate.....scare of facts on paper?

don't you worry. i'm working on that dyno. see...i don't pull random dynos off the net. i provide ones that are from engines I KNOW have been daily driven for more than a year.

btw: am i the only one in here that notices.....

it's being said i am "defending the d" and i'm so for the d........how come i'm the only one saying this is unfair and ghey thread? yet all my accusers can do is post message over message saying i'm for the d. and how the b is so much better....

trying to step over the true topic at hand with the same yada, yada, yada......


guess what......news flash......I LIKE D SERIES.....who would of guessed????

guess what.....stock b vs stock d = unfair

guess what....hooking up a d is cheaper

CAN I MAKE IT ANY MORE CLEAR?

now if you want to keep saying i like d series. and if you want to keep saying a d is cheaper to work on....and the b has more hp to start...then feel free, but it's no secret or news.

i dont know about it being any cheaper, as far as I/H/E goes, they all run about the same price for D and B series. cams might be a different story.

oh oh, so hows this one, its not true because i dont have a lsvtec engine, but i could be done for under 2000 but this is only cause i got a deal. so i got a complete ls swap for $800 but since the prev owner rewelded the mounts, i had to spend 200 on new mounts, so my complete ls swap cost me $1000, which leaves me 1000 for mods, so for 1000 i think i could build a ls vtec that beats the challenge. and that would be a lsvtec setup about 200hp for 2000, damn i wish i had 1000 to spend on my car