Turbo checklist for next month

Hey, Next month....actually in exactly 4 weeks...We'll be installing my turbo, among other parts laying around my garage... it's my vacation week, lol

I'm making a checklist for everything I'll need. Anybody is welcome to add comments or recomendded accessories or whatever... just please I don't feel like hearing it's waste of time and all that jazz.

Turbo....check
Manifold....check
Intercooler....check
SAFC....check
Oil Feed and returns....check

next week we're going to a muffler shop to see about downpiping and intercooler piping.

Instead of a hi-flow cat, I think I'm going with a Cat-delete...

I need to go to advanced and order a valve cover gasket, and a exhuast gasket...possibly a head gasket...depends on how it looks when we take it off...

I'm going to get it tuned the week after that too I think...

I'm looking into injectors right now, I think I'm getting Ford Brown Tops...they'll run at like 70% duty cycle, so that'll be alright...


It will be a huge week for me, we're also building a box for my 15's, and I'll put my new driving lights on...

so any helpful suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

Awesome cant wait to see it done. when u get it tuned tape it, i wanna see the dyno video lol. Also what intercooler did u go with? And what BOV?

the intercooler is a spearco and I don't have an external wastegate, I wanna see how the one that is on it does...if I have to then I'll buy a greddy one...

i also have a 10lb bottle of nitrous, but I'm missing some of the solenoids....I wanted to inject it into the intercooler to cool the air even more. I've seen those "foggers" and I think I can make a better one....we'll see, lol. I also have a cool mounting idea for the center console with the Nitrous... but I'll have to work on it...

You need...

Wide band O2 sensor
FMU ( Cartech Begi or HP tuners)

..wrap the SAFC up and sell it on ebay.

The SAFC modifies the MAP sensor signal . It increases the signal to make the ECU think that more air is going in to the engine than there really is. Here's the problems though ...

1. MAP sensor maxes out at 0 PSI (atmospheric). The SAFC cannot make the ECU think more air is going in than you would have at WOT on a naturally aspirated engine, which is not enough for boost by far.

2. The VE table, the one that tells the ECU how much air is going into the engine, is NOT based on the map sensor . It is based on the RPM and the TPS sensor. That means the only thing the SAFC is doing is making the timing retard (since the only MAP based table on an N/A ECU is the High/Low octane spark tables).

So, the SAFC is useless for boost, get an FMU.

I wish i would have know you were looking at an SAFC, i would have warned you b4 hand.

I asked like a million years ago, and you even replied, lol...

Can he use the Apexi Neo VAFC2? instead of the SAFC? And where can i find a wide band 02 sensor?

I asked like a million years ago, and you even replied, lol...


Did I?... Wow, i must have not been aware of that issue at that time. Only since our shop's turbo'd 2.2 have i been doing my HW. So since mid sept i found that out... but yea, our cartech controls the fuel by boost pressure. Higher the pressure the more it adds, etc.

Sorry for slacking off on my end.. :frown:

not your fault... I used the search thing and searched every post that I had and couldn't find it.... but I swear I posted it, or maybe replied to someone elses, because I didn't even know about it until I heard about it from on here... so I bought a used one off ebay... and my guages that I have won't read Wide Band Sensors... what's the difference between the two? I saw that thread about the sunfire where the aluminum gave because it was running lean...

so what if I sold it and got this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innovate-Motorsports-LM-1-Wideband-o2-Lambda-UEGO_W0QQitemZ230091372188QQihZ013QQcategoryZ33596 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

then I could tune it myself :)

possibly a head gasket...depends on how it looks when we take it off...

if you've gone that far you might as well change it anyway, right? save some greif in the future possibly?

thats a start, yes. Thats just going to tell you your exactly a/f ratio. Its not going to control your injectors. If you put them into your stock fuel rail without playing with the duty on them, its just going to flood out. ( i know this from trial and error believe it or not) You need a way to control those puppies.

grrr.... this is getting expensive again, lol... okay so what do you recommend for the FMU then?

http://www.cartech.net/images/fmu2020.jpg

+ wide band a/f

http://www.cartech.net/fmu2020.htm


$259+

HPTuners- You don't need a FMU with this just wide band.

$499

do they make a version of hp tuners vcm for MAC???? I have a macbook pro... If i'm getting it tuned, why do I need HP Tuners?

Couldnt he just go with this:? apeci neo VAFC

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/APEXI-SAFC-NEO-AIR-FUEL-CONTROLLER-AFC-VAFC-IN-ONE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQihZ008QQitemZ 180086489559QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

what's the differnece between the neo and the safc?

ok i wasn't going to say anything, but i have to stop you from making a stupid decision.

You have an SAFC, its not the method i would have used, but it is literally 1000x better than using an FMU. If anyone objects to that, go bash your head with a stone. FMU's aren't adjustable nearly as much as an SAFC. Of course you cant control timing w/ an SAFC, but you can at least control fuel a lot better.

If you really want this setup to be good, you should look into getting MegaSquirt because it encompasses everything. You can control the ignition and fuel graphs.

FMU < SAFC < VAFC < MegaSquirt

ok i wasn't going to say anything, but i have to stop you from making a stupid decision.

You have an SAFC, its not the method i would have used, but it is literally 1000x better than using an FMU. If anyone objects to that, go bash your head with a stone.


.....prove your logic here. I can support myself with tables from HPtuners showing where i am right. You Simply cannot tune a boosted car with an SAFC...

btw.. HPtuners > Everything.l... Something we GM guys have over you DSM guys. Have full control over the tuning of the car.

.....prove your logic here. I can support myself with tables from HPtuners showing where i am right. You Simply cannot tune a boosted car with an SAFC...

btw.. HPtuners > Everything.l... Something we GM guys have over you DSM guys. Have full control over the tuning of the car.


Prove my logic...well first i'm just going to disprove yours.

1. If HP Tuners is using an FMU, they dont know anything. If you want to talk to a real tuner about this, go to www.evans-tuning.com or talk to MA$E at Stage6 MotorSports. Those are the real "tuners"....and they do a lot more than just Hondas
2. An FMU merely controls fuel and does a bad job at that. How are you controlling ignition timing?
3. Yes you can tune a car on JUST an SAFC/VAFC i have a few friends that do it.
4. I dont have a DSM...
5. For Honda cars, they have some of the best tuning systems available that cover EVERYTHING. Until you know more about what you claim, dont say anything.

I just want the OP to have something that isn't a big waste of time...i could care less if he goes against all my advice because at the end of the day, i'm still boosted and still dont care

go to any of these sites and ask what is better out of those two options...

www.pgmfi.org ---best tuning site ever
www.evans-tuning.com
www.homemadeturbo.com
www.honda-tech.com

only one of those is a Honda site, but they still know what is good and what is not....check them out and after that, you tell me who is right. Also, on Home Made Turbo, there are a few guys who have turboed their Cavaliers so it is a place worth checking out

Yea the mega squirt is good cause it does cover everything possible but.... there is one problem with that, and that is learning how to tune it using megasquirt program. SuperStreet had an article on it and they said it took them over a month and 10hours a week just to learn how to program it and to get it tuned right. After awhile thats gonna cost a lot of $$$ when it comes to taking it to the dyno shop and having some1 tune it.

Prove my logic...well first i'm just going to disprove yours.

1. If HP Tuners is using an FMU, they dont know anything. If you want to talk to a real tuner about this, go to www.evans-tuning.com or talk to MA$E at Stage6 MotorSports. Those are the real "tuners"....and they do a lot more than just Hondas
2. An FMU merely controls fuel and does a bad job at that. How are you controlling ignition timing?
3. Yes you can tune a car on JUST an SAFC/VAFC i have a few friends that do it.
4. I dont have a DSM...
5. For Honda cars, they have some of the best tuning systems available that cover EVERYTHING. Until you know more about what you claim, dont say anything.

HPtuners + Wideband O2 sensor is all your need. ( I never said anything about needing a FMU with it)


This is what happened when turbo 2.2 was tuned with only a S-AFC. The car was tuned for 6psi on the dyno with the S-AFC. When the owner picked up the car and was driving home, the car was hitting 10ps on the street....boom


http://home.comcast.net/~adesire/DavidCavalierPistonsOWNED.jpg


Our cars will pull the timing automatically if it detects knock. If he stays running 93 or higher octane, intercooled and around 6-7psi there is no need to retard timing on our cars. If he wants to run some retarded amount of boost then yes retarding timing to lower temps in the combustion chamber is required. But yes you are right that the FMU will not cover ignition timing. Which leaves you MSD-DIS2 or HPtuners or you can tweak with the SAFC with an FMU

HP Tuners does EVERYTHING...Screen shots of timing charts for one.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/ge_forcez22/multipler.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/ge_forcez22/editorVE.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e45/ge_forcez22/scanner.jpg

You have to realize all cars react differently to boost. What your honda does is different from our j-bodies. Some things need more attention than others.

wow....i'm impressed. I must have read a few of the other posts wrong....

I would go with something like that HP Tuners program (which is like Neptune, Hondata, etc for Hondas) because it does encompass a lot of stuff. Although if it were my car, i would skip the 02 wideband and just bring it to a professional tuner rather than trying to do it myself. I took my car to a tuner and at was $400 for the whole session. If you get a wideband, you're going to spend about $300 for the PLX-M100 series. It is a good investment if you're going to do it yourself, but i like to leave it in the hands of someone who has a lot of experience. He can pull more power out of my setup and keep in more reliable than i can....

wow... arguments....neat.

okay so with a raising rate FMU it compensates and sends the right 12/1 ammount of fuel, so as your car pulls more air (a.k.a. forced induction/turbo) it will compensate and add the constant ammount...

so I'll need injectors and that FMU.. I understand that part


now the whole safc / vafc/ neo/ hp tuners crap I don't understand, could somebody please give an unbias opinion on why I need any of these applications and exactly what they do....

hp tuners is not an option, I own a Macintosh laptop, hp tuner software is for PC only....

What if I just get the stuff of and take it to a dyno place, can't they tune it for me and then I'm good to go?

FMU = cheap, not very reliable, junk

hp tuner's or any program or chip that installs into your car that can control every aspect of what you need to tune = good! more power, more reliable.

Take it somewhere get it tuned by someone who knows what they are doing and has been doing it for years. yeah its expensive but its also more safe and you'll be happier with the end result and hell you'll probably even get acouple dyno sheets out of the deal.

Just remember you get what you pay for.

FMU = cheap, not very reliable, junk

hp tuner's or any program or chip that installs into your car that can control every aspect of what you need to tune = good! more power, more reliable.

Take it somewhere get it tuned by someone who knows what they are doing and has been doing it for years. yeah its expensive but its also more safe and you'll be happier with the end result and hell you'll probably even get a couple dyno sheets out of the deal.

Just remember you get what you pay for.


I agree with everything.....also, since you're hopefully going to get it professionally tuned, dont get a wideband...the tuner WILL have one already

I would get the wideband and an EGT gauge as a safety precaution. If those read outside your optimal range which ever that may be for your specific application, those are the first things to warn you something is up along with your boost gauge. Like said above, you get what you pay for, and cutting corners will set you back in the end.

I thought you needed a fmu if you got injectors... it was my assumptuion that if you just throw bigger injectors in there then it would just "flood the engine" unless you have some way to control it...

yeah, the way to control it is by getting tuned on one of the above systems...

so, what exactly was wrong with my safc then? under the boost you car thread in performance it recommends safc as one of the tuning things...

so, what exactly was wrong with my safc then? under the boost you car thread in performance it recommends safc as one of the tuning things...


That was written b4 hp tuners came out and reviled a lot of things those tools and if they actually do anything or not. You can use it, but i would only for "fine" tuning on your own. You need to have your car professionally tuned somewhere on a dyno, or Get HPtuners and a wide band and do it on your own. If your lucky, you may be able to find someone on JBO close to you with the software already and you'd just have to buy credits and use their laptop to tune.

theres some guy on ohio customz asking if anyone wants to go in on buying it and share the credits...

Ok to end the confusion....YOU CAN USE AN SAFC TO TUNE YOUR CAR, but YOU NEED A WAY TO CONTROL TIMING

to end confusion you would have told me what to use to control timing....

is ur car an auto 2.2 ?

yes it is, please spare me noob

Ok well lets make this as simple as possible, cause im confused as shit. OK first things first, the options that we have so far are the following:

1. HP Tuners and a Wideband
2. FMU and a Wideband

What other options and combinations can we come up with that will work with a cavalier engine. Anything including the SAFC? And timing?

SAFC/MSD-DIS2( Expensive unit but very effective) + Wideband.

Cheapest way to go honestly is Hptuners and a wide band

SAFC - $200? ( DIS-2 = $500) + 300 for wide band = Ouch $1,000

FMU ($225) + wideband ( $300)= $525

HPtuners $499 + wideband ($300) = $799

You still need new injectors and probably would be a good idea to get a new Walbro fuel pump to keep up. Those are the options that I know of.

Get er done Derk.......I got booted from my Dad's house, but he doesn't live there, it sits empty.....I'm trying to get back in....hope your still up for June......it will be PIMP

So the only way to tune the timing is through the MSD-DIS2 correct? and HP tuners? So that means going with option #3 (FMU ($225) + wideband ( $300)= $525) then your sacrificing timing your car correct? And from what you said in previous post Cody, you can still run your car with option number #3 as long as your running no more the 6-7lbs boost, and the timing will re-adjust itself. So in the mean time you could save up the $$ and then later on go out and buy the MSD-DIS2 or the Hp Tuners?

run 93 octane, fmu, wideband and you can get a deacent running car. If you can get your a/f to stay pretty much neutral around 11:7-12:1 ( avg. # where guys are staying with these cars) Its enough to the point where you won't worry about over heating it. This is where a dyno and fine tuning comes in to get the most out of your car.

At the shop we actually are trying a different method, a name was given to us in texas who tunes with HPtuners. Tell them how much boost your running, injector size, engine, etc... and you ship them the ecu. Our customer suggested them, we will see what the outcome is. Should be here tomorrow. You can send it back and forth as many times as you please. I will not give out names or #'s till we see how good this guy is. Its for our turbo'd chevy 3500 truck.. http://www.rdfabs.com/galleries/index.php?level=album&id=33

is the innovative wideband and the apexi s-afc pretty much the same thing?

2 Completely different things. The innovative can log your air/fuel into its computer and you have access to that data by d/l the info into your computer. The SAFC tweaks your fuel. The Wide band only shows you your true a/f ratio and doesn't do anything more to my knowledge. We used the AEM one.

go to www.homemadeturbo.com and see what they think about tuning

go to www.homemadeturbo.com and see what they think about tuning


Wow... Some of those guys need to learn how to weld. I was looking at a few of their down pipe/ manifold pictures.. Looks like quality you find at BOCES. Yet a lot are very nicely done. I guess if their functional thats all that matters, i just wouldn't want to have my hood open at shows.

As far as what they are tuning with..... computer management tuning seems to the be the way to go.

Yes some of the shit on that site is horrible, but there is a running joke of who can make the cheapest setup that works....people are really struggling to make some odd stuff. You have to look past the blatant cheapness and see that they're being innovative. People say that turboing your car is ALWAYS going to cost a lot and they're a great example that it doesn't have to cost a lot

your cars a joke you should just load it with turbo and nos get it going as fast as possible and run it right into a brick wall, Im no new b or new bitch for those who know what it means i just moved over to the nissan forum cause i bought a real car faget

:nono:

hahaha those are some words i never thought i would have seen in the same sentence....nissan+real car....:shakehead granted cavy's arent the best cars in the world, they are far better than any car nissan makes with exception of the z

so I guess you're going to have to change your name to nissass boy then eh?

your cars a joke you should just load it with turbo and nos get it going as fast as possible and run it right into a brick wall, Im no new b or new bitch for those who know what it means i just moved over to the nissan forum cause i bought a real car faget

This is your first and only warning. Come in here again with the attention of attacking people about what they drive, other actions will be taken, Possibly up to/ including permanent banning.

Cody = Coolest person I (don't) know

my buddy told me to get emange from greddy, isn't that for imports only tho? .... I've excepted the fact that I need to spent a bit of money, but I'm still trying to keep it minimum because I'm moving in September, and... let's just say this is the first time I will have to pay rent...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180089855935

so that's like the last model, you think I should get it? beats 259...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cartech-BEGI-RRFPR-FMU-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-Turbo_W0QQitemZ160088011830QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3355 3QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Watch this one, its only at $100 right now.

I was watching that one too, lol basically any fmu that says rising rate i'm watching, lol

i'm telling you for the last time and then you're on your own....FMU's are garbage, get something worthwhile or you'll regret it later....that is all

In my own opinion when i actually turbo my own car here, most likely this coming winter... I am going to Use HPtuners and a wide band. We had the ECU come back after being reflashed from the guys in texas for our 3500 truck, let me just say. God damn. I don't have the dyno sheets from the run we did with it, however it put down 429hp/ and 490 tq on 7psi. Stock specs were the Vortec 5.3L V8, Horsepower 315 hp, Torque 338 lb-ft. if the owner wants anything ever changed to run higher boost, we just send the computer back and they keep doing it for as many times as we want.

Our 2200 thats was turbo'd this fall that the oil pump went shotski is getting totally rebuilt, larger turbo and a few more other goodies in store for it. I on the other hand, am acquiring the old setup. But am going to run a few more precautions unlike we did with the trial run with the car so that issue dosn't arise again. lol

so guess you get your wish cody

I found 2 other guys in columbus that want to get it and I told them I wanted in too, so we're gonna split the cost 3 ways.

and they're gonna help me with the installation.... omg this kid has a supercharged 2.4 :):):):):):):):)

Its always nice meeting new people who are just as much as car fanatics as yourself. Always willin to lend a hand. Its how i found the guys at RDFABS. ;)