Updates on my POS 2004 LS

read http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4455742 for the background on this...


I finally got my car back from the dealer after 21 full days. Turned out to be an HVAC problem. pathetic. I was pissed that this mess took this long, so i drove it home and parked the car. Next morning, the moonrof failed, AGAIN! Long story short, i am pursuing lemon law. This is what has happened so far.

From reading other peoples experiences, i knew i had to follow what the owners manual exactly:

First i talked to the highest person in the dealership, the general manager. He took me back to the shop were the service manager was. (maybe he didnt want customers to hear our conversation!) I told them i was fed up and pissed and wanted to pursue the lemon law. Service manager said, call corp. GM since he doesnt have authority.

I fiddle-farted around with corp. GM as per the owners manual. They wasted more than a month waiting to tell me they refuse to buy back my vehicle. I was told to "pursue other options available to me, and if there was anything else he could help me with." how about fixing my car genious? That got me nowhere.

Lastly, On January 5th right after this phone conversation,
i filed with the BBB Autoline. Gm corp call THE NEXT DAY! Was told that by law this has to be settled within 40 days. (hooray!) Was told that she would review my case and get back to me in a week (2 days ago). Guess what, she didnt call back.

I'll keep posting the status of this mess, and if anyone has tips on this process i would LOVE to hear from you.

(ps. i climbed into the car about 2 weeks ago from having it sitting in my garage, and noticed the plastic on the a-pillar falling down. The retards at the dealer BROKE it when they tore my dash apart. I looked more closely at the car, found bolts under the seats, the wiring under the drivers seat was all over the place, and the seats were reassembled improperly. I flew off the handle when i saw this, and it was stated in my lemon law claim!)

Sorry to hear about all your troubles... Is anything else wrong with the car or just the moonroof?... How is a flaky moonroof a HVAC problem?

I just realized im considered a noob on here again.... man i need to post more! ok, to answer your questions, u may want to read the previous post. ill resummarize here though.

Car has been to dealer:
6 times for moonroof failures (still not operating)
4 or 5 times for domelight failures (the fixtures, not the bulbs)
1 time for sludge in coolling system (refuse to fix)
2 times for noise at high rpms (HVAC problem, which they fixed)
1 time for delaminating buttons on steering wheel

car has been out of service over 25 days, and during the last visit the plastic on my a-pillar was broken, by seats were improperly reinstalled, and there are 2 bolts that go who-knows-where lying under the drivers seat.


I posted this whole ordeal to feel out anyone else out there that has gone through this process and to get advice. So far noone has told me anything new, but there is always a hope. I officially started the BBB arbitration process which takes BY LAW no more that 40 days, and im on day 10.

Did you try Office of Defects Investigation? Do a search on Yahoo for a link.

ODI has to do with safety related defects, which is NOT what i am fighting gm over, but thatnks for the input.


Update on the situation: GM has had their chance to make amends with me before arbitration, and has made 2 offers so far.

Offer number one: reimbursment of one car payment
Offer number two: reimbursment of one car payment and a 4 yr/48,000 mile extended warrenty limited to the drivetrain

of course neither of these offers were acceptable, and were in fact an insult.

The arbitration is scheduled for THIS THURSDAY! I would like ANYONE that has goen through this to please contact me and give me any pointers that you can. I want to make sure i present my case as good as i can.

After talking to the BBB folks, i basically cant lose. Either the arbitrator will award me a repurchase, or force them to fix my car. If they cant get it right after one last (SEVENTH) repair attempt, i will be awarded repurchase. I would prefer that they repurchase the car instead of dragging this out further. My wife is quite pissed at me because she is stuck driving a 1989 lebaron untill this is settled.

-Rob

P.S. To anyone out there considering buying a NEW vehicle from GM i would tell you to think twice. They do not car about their customers at all, and have horrible service. Buy used and skip dealing with all the rediculousness!

sorry you have had so much trouble with your GM purchase. I, on the other hand, have owned many Gm vehicles (two dozen) and have driven them many thousands of miles. I have had very few issues with them and have had excellent service from the dealerships during the few times I've had warrantee work completed.

Have you tried a different dealership ?
as far as the moon roof if it is like the one on my 2003, there is three posabilities. 1. the control unit under the headliner by your visor. 2 the pulley system has limit switches, they could stick or be out of sync. 3 the rocker switch. They can all be tested with a DVM or / and a scan tool. I have to admit that intermittents are really difficult to track down. Having said that, If it was me that was the shop froman I would have shotgunned ( replaced the whole unit, controller, pulley, switch ) the whole moon roof, just to kkep from going into litigation. I have worked all my life just about in some kind of service dept from automobiles to PC's and you always do all you can for your customers, if you don't someone else will. A lot of your stuff is minor and they should have fixed it all, unless i missed something ( possibly the lighting issue could be the PCM ) more likely wiring. I could see if it was an intermittent trans that never acted up at the shop and threw no codes. The dealership should have fixed it all that is nothing to them.

I would definitely agree that they should have just replaced the whole assembly. given that MOST of my problems have been electrical in nature, im not sure if the problem is so simple. either way, i PAID for a vehicle to run properly, and i want to force GM to stand behind their product. what good is the warrenty if gm never can get the car to perform to spec? I still love gm products and probably wont stray, but this piss-poor service makes me never want to buy new again.

as for another dealer: i never wanted to drive that far to get my car serviced and why should i have to? (the next dealer is twice as far away [and has as bad a reputation as the one i currently have tried to get it fixed at])

in about 12 hours from this post my arbitration hearing starts and im hoping for some real results. wish me luck and thanks to the few that offered some helpful ideas. Ill post back either tomorrow or this weekend as to how things went and what the results were.

-Rob

oh yeah, im taping the hearing on a digital recorder......

I know none of the American car companies seem to realize that if they are not nice to their customers someone else will be. I think it is a hold over from the 60's and 70's. You get mad at Chevy, you buy an Olds, you get mad at Olds you buy a Ford ..so on and on. You are still buying a UAW product. Now there are foreign autos that are out of the loop. I still like Chevrolet, maybe it was my father and Uncle always bought Chevys or they way they look.

Also Chevrolet placed 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th at the Daytona 500, from way back starting positions. Toyota was 24th and 36th, so much for the big mufflers and a wing bolted to the trunk lid.

where to start..... (youll want to read this!)


so arbitration with the BBB was a trainwreck. extremely unprofessional, the office was the bottom story of a condo, and had dogs and bunnies running around everywhere. The arbitrator was a totally different person than who i was told was going to be there, and the GM rep that told me would be on the phone was switched out as well. The arbitrator was extremely dense when talking about cars, and showed no interest in the reasons why i filed for the lemon law.

the results came in about a week and a half after the hearing. i was awarded repair on the stuff the dealer jacked up, but NOT the moonroof! WTF! i already KNEW the dealer was liable for that, so why did i waste my time? i rejected the decision of the BBB and decided to just go to the dealer to get them to fix all that was messed up so i could just sell my car.

The dealer agreed to the repairs and performed them 2 fridays ago. My wife took delivery of the car, and i didnt get a chance to drive it till sunday. my wife told me that the HVAC noises were back in full force, the dash rattled, and the steering column didnt seem right. we went on a road trip and took the car anyway. The steering column was indeed BROKEN, and had enought play to move a good 2 inches in every direction. The steering column lock did not work. The HVAC noise was louder than before. The dash rattles. And to top it off, i tried to open the moonroof and it failed AGAIN!

I came unglued in the car...........

Monday after work I floored it right at the dealership front doors and slid to a stop right in the way of the showroom doors. I got out and proceeded to yell my way into the dealership demanding the owner of the dealership. (this is my first time EVER comming unglued, ive been nice until this point) The owner, the general manager, and 2 salesmen surrounded me and then the owner had me meet him around the back to meet up with the service manager. On the way back there i was still venting about what had been going on, and caught the service maanger off gaurd. The service manager and i then exchagned words for a minute or so until the owner calmed us all down.

They both admitted that this whole thing is rediculous, apologized, and where both mad that GM wont buy my car back.... [yes, that line is not a typo, the DEALERSHIP thinks my car should be bought back]

:banghead:

They had my wife bring the car in the next morning to fix everything. Gave us the red carpet treatment. yadda yadda... got the car back and the steering wheel lock is STILL broken, and the dash rattle and the HVAC noise is louder than ever.........

Im currently trying to get the dealer to buy the car from me and planning on hiring a lawyer tomorrow.

So there is my update. Sure makes you wanna go out and buy a new car huh? This one is definitely my last!

Have you considered a bicycle?

Have you considered a bicycle?
I second that

Have you considered just burning the damn thing??? It would be a whole lot easier on ya.. Better yet, why dont you dump the car in a local lake, and report it stolen. I wonder if Onstar works underwater:smokin: These options sound a lot easier than the BS you been going through...

not a bicycle, but a used car. im just trying to not get completely raped in the process of dumping off this car.

you BETCHA ive considered lighting it on fire in front of the dealership (and it might come to that) and i also have considered dumping the car off (no onstar :wink: ). problem with dumping the car is ill only get what my insurance thinks my car is worth, so i doubt that will get the car paid off.
:banghead: :banghead:


ive been playing a little phone tag with the owner, and am gonna hopefully have a meaningful conversation with the owner and service manager tomorrow afternoon. ill keep you posted!

My opinion of GM in a gesture: :nono:

My opinion of GM in a gesture: :nono:
one car and/or one dealership will not make or break GM. I offset your bad vote for GM by maintaining that they are an excellent organization.

Yes there is no other car company like GM. Cadillac won the Malcom Baldridge award, a task that no other car company will ever do. GM and Cadilac pioneered just about 99% of modern car engineering in use today, like AC and automatic trans to name a few. Look at the recent Daytona 500 , Chevrolet
was first, second , third and fourth...... Toyota was like 24th LOL.:loser:

i cant share you love for GM anymore, i cant STAND the company. an excellent coorporation would CARE about their customer. an excellent coorporation would CARE about their employees ( ie my father )

i will agree that GM typically makes a far more superior product than most, the company as a whole gets a thumbs down from me. this is why im still planning on buying a used chev or gmc truck, just never again anything new.


oh yeah, so far the dealer is ignoring my phone calls today.... i might have to make another visit tomorrow and reiterate how pissed i am.

Look at the recent Daytona 500 , Chevrolet was first, second , third and fourth...... Toyota was like 24th LOL.:loser:

Unfortunately, winning the Daytona 500 has absolutely nothing to do with the quality, or lack of quality, of a particular manufacturer... Aside from sponsership dollars and a little bit of similar body shape, there is no relationship between a stock Monte Carlo (or Impala) and what runs on the NASCAR racetrack...

Right on Gems... NASCAR racers are, under the 21st century aero skins, the Chevelles, Monte Carlos, Plymouth RoadRunners, and Ford Galaxies of the 70's -- heck they still have carbs, and very little electronics.

The fact that Chevrolets are winning is more a testament to how bulletproof their 70's technlogy was, and what a great engine the small block chevy is, than anything that may or may not transfer into GM production vehicles.

If I had to guess, the current problem and greatest advance with current production vehicles is their electronics package -- it's a wonferful thing to have a car that starts easily under most weather condiftions, gets good mileage, helps you survive a crash, and is environmentally friendly -- no small task -- but these same innovations come at the expense of an incredibly complex electronics package that adds points of failure.

It wil be interesting to see how well Chevrolet's NASCAR "Car of the Future" fairs when it debuts this weekend -- It's an Impala SS!

GM cars are made so cheap, but cost so much. I work for Delphi in Columbus Ohio, and we make the door latches for the new GM trucks, and the Impala, and let me tell you, the door latch is 97% plastic. The only thing thats metal on the damn thing is the metal lever that connects to the inside door handle, and its only about 2.5 inches long, and the mounting poins on the bottom of the latch. It only cost Delphi no more than $1.50 to build the latch, but it cost over $100.00 to replace the damn thing. Its stuff like that, that, that draws me away from GM..

my last post.....

after 3 calls to the dealership, the manager would still not take my phone call. I have yet to get a return call, but.....

i just solved this whole mess the old fashioned way

i sold the POS!!! traded it in for another jeep. this experience has turned me into a die-hard jeep owner. they WORK, dealers FIX THEM THE FIRST TIME, and THEY HOLD THEIR VALUE!

enough said.

-Rob

i cant share you love for GM anymore, i cant STAND the company. an excellent coorporation would CARE about their customer. an excellent coorporation would CARE about their employees ( ie my father )
It's 2007 , tell me what company does ...LOL After sending GM several emails about a question I had, they put me in their blocked senders list. So I guess I could whine about that.lol

Unfortunately, winning the Daytona 500 has absolutely nothing to do with the quality, or lack of quality, of a particular manufacturer.. I guess you are not familliar with the saying, "racing improves the breed"

We just bought a new Malibu Maxx and it is great, ah what a site my Impala and our new Malibu all shined up in the driveway. Yes Chevrolet all the way.