11r

I too was assured that the quality of the vehicle is excellent in every way, again from the same very reliable source. I assume that first hand viewing of the car will serve to prove that.

Enjoy your trip and please bring a camera. ;)

>8^)
ER

Emil - those photos are wonderful, but all of them were previously posted here. It is indeed GTR #11R. That occasion was also the one that produced the short video I referred to earlier. I'll try to post it later.


I finally dug up the video and hosted it on YouTube. It's not as spectacular as I recalled as there is an abundance of wind noise, but I probably haven't watched it for over 2 years since it first appeared on the web, so I had forgotten.

In the first 10 seconds you can hear the car fire up and do a quick rev of the engine, then another 10 seconds just show the car sitting stationary with lots of wind noise. Around the 20 second mark the car takes off onto the track, but the sound of the engine is muffled by the wind again.

Still, I think it is great to see the car getting run around. I hope carbuilder can make a few more videos for us this summer. :)

Enjoy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXABbC8zhvA

>8^)
ER

What a cool story :)

Bravo again Carbuilder :) And please let us know if you take the car on the road :)
for the Shuttle, Evo journalist who owns a Zonda said the car come aboard in the Shuttle :)

Have a nice trip :)
Phil

It's not a done deal yet, I have been talking to a leading GTR expert and he assures me I could buy a racing one and have it fully rebuilt for about the same price I am being quoted for 11R. In addition it is due or overdue for a tank replacement since it was rebuilt in 2002 and they need replacing every 4 to 5 years.
Have also looked into converting a longtail for the road but same expert is not sure it would be practical as He has turned down several requests to do so.
Anyway should know within the next 4 weeks for definate if Am biting the bullet or looking elsewhere.
Two notable GTR's one with impecable race history went for $1.1Mill last year and a Fina car also with good race pedigree went for £700,000GBP.
Anyway I am still waiting for Mclaren to tell me exactly what work was carried out, of particular importance being the Engine and Gearbox which if either were not fully rebuilt is cause for concern.
Anyway fingers and toes crossed, my company buyer is being stubborn and I can not even contemplate this purchase until it is signed sealed and delivered.

I can assure you we are all happy to read along as you try to put things together.

Can you say if your expert is Paul Lanzante?

>8^)
ER

Yep good guess. Was advised by our GTR expert Mr. Bridger who I am leaning heavily on for advice, Many thanks Mr. B. :-)
I am desperatley trying to use my head and push my heart to the rear as it would be very easy to grab the 1st one you see nice though it is, thought of getting it hame and then having to send it to have the tank replaced is a big turn off seen as they have to remove everything rear of the bulkhead to do it.

I finally dug up the video and hosted it on YouTube. It's not as spectacular as I recalled as there is an abundance of wind noise, but I probably haven't watched it for over 2 years since it first appeared on the web, so I had forgotten.

In the first 10 seconds you can hear the car fire up and do a quick rev of the engine, then another 10 seconds just show the car sitting stationary with lots of wind noise. Around the 20 second mark the car takes off onto the track, but the sound of the engine is muffled by the wind again.

Still, I think it is great to see the car getting run around. I hope carbuilder can make a few more videos for us this summer. :)

Enjoy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXABbC8zhvA

>8^)
ER


Thanks alot Peleton25! :bananasmi
Too bad about the wind noise. Anyway it was fun to see it run on ground I've been to many time... too bad I wasn't there! :banghead:

Hello,

thanks to keep us informed Carbuilder :) And thanks too Mister Bridger to help you :)

Juste a little question : If you buy a GTR in original condition, do you think about make the txo GT90 Revival event before rebuilt it ?

And for the tank replacement, I think at this price, the car must be 100ù ready, so it is normal to decrease the price in regard of that.

Phil

Hmm racing an F1? Although I have raced E types and aston martins in the past I doubt I would have the quick reactions to race something of this power (I am nearly 51). Anyway I would be terrified I bent it lol or worse someone else savaged it in the heat of battle.
Negotiations on price will follow when i get a full rundown from Mclaren with costs etc.

IF you bought one before the weekend of 5/6 may you should go to the 90's GT revival at Silverstone with your new F1.

Would love to meet you there;)

Well by then I hope to be semi-retired so time will not be a problem. Getting the car there (assuming the sale goes through) may be as I am advised that it will need a service 1st. Not to mention lighting changed to UK spec.

well I wish you all the best with finding a good F1.

I tried to visit McLaren last year but it was a definite no-go:(

Are you looking further then 11R now?

you could contact www.auto-salon-singen.de if they still have the silver one for sale. (They have listed it for a long period so I doubt it. But you could always try!)

Thanks alot Peleton25! :bananasmi

You're welcome! :thumbsup:

>8^)
ER

I usually go to the festival of speed anyway so may go anyway no matter what.
Well I have not given up on 11R just things can't progress untill I get my business sold for definite. I will not be going to view the car unless I have the means to complete the deal on the day, thats how I do things, get the groundwork done then when the funds are there do the deal as soon as possible.
Autohandel have been informed of this and I am confident that when the time comes and the car impresses me then it will be a case of seen and sold.
In the end a car is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it and if it is as good as it looks then if it costs a bit more than the norm that is for me and my concience to decide.

well when I saw it it looked absolutely fabolous. no scratches just perfect mint condition.

Hello,

I agree carbuilder, it' was just a little possibility since you could buy a GTR not road legal. Thanks to answer me with frankness.

I imagine it would be a dream each time you drive a F1 and also for pepole who will see a GTR at red light on the road :)

I don't know why but I think the parking of the GT90 revival at Silverstone could reserve some surprises....

Phil

Buying a non converted GTR did cross my mind but by the time you factor in the 6 months it takes to convert and the £200,000 + cost would it be worth the hastle when there is one ready to drive away?

I agree again.

I always don't know how they converte the GTR and why it costs so much.
someone know ?

Phil

Well I do not know in detail but here are a few ideas.
Suspension and damper settings, possibly ride height. Instalation of a handbrake and associated equipment. Probable removal of Rollcage and making good the appertures left. Not sure if they remove the onboard fire equipment. Making up the thin passenger seat padding. De-restricting the engine. If the work is done by McLarens themselves they will not let it out without a full workover structurally and cosmetically and been signed off by the test driver/quality engineer. Replacing racing dash with one with a speedo to make it legal. Road legal exhaust system. Not sure if the onboard telemetry is removed or not but looking at the snaking cables running through the cockpit I would guess it's left in?
I am sure someone who has such a car would know a lot better than I do at this point.

Thank you very much !

I don't imagine such a work. It's crazy, this race car has nearly a civil motor and it won the 24 Heures du Mans ! When you think about that, these cars are rares.

Phil

No progress to report yet still trying to get my buyers to finalise an offer that we can agree on.
Had some info from McLaren but can't revear much as had to sign a letter of confidentiallity. Have had the cost of bringing the car up to scratch (not that it appears to need much, thank god). Suffice it to say the cost of replacing the fuel cell and a yearly maintenence check would buy a very good family car.
Trying hard to get this moving as McLarens seem to be moving quite quickly these days, have heard of 4 GTR's being sold in the last 6 months.

wow 4 in 6 months!

maybe it has to do with the 90's GT revival?

wow 4 in 6 months!

maybe it has to do with the 90's GT revival?
that must be 13R, 16R (not sure how long ago this one was purchased, so could be another), 24R and 27R???

i may be wrong with some of the above? arent there any more? like 11R, was this actually sold? and now for sale again? :)

23R too (but that was sold through KS Autohandel, not through McLaren)

#12R, #21R, #23R, #24R, #27R have all moved around either locations or owners in the last 12 months. As for which ones were "sold", besides #23R and #24R, I don't know for certain.

#11R has not changed owners in at least 3 years.

#13R & #16R both left Australia within a few months of each other, going to their new owners at the end of 2005.

>8^)
ER

It would be interesting to make the "ultimate GTR thread" with all these infos and keep it updated.

Here my think on infos :
enters Le Mans or not
best result on race
converted or not (with details and year of conversion if known)
location
ready to race in the GT90s revival ? :)

Phil

Can anyone put their finger on some race information for me?
I am trying to find out which was 11R's best placed race and placing? But also want to know what it's livery was for that race?
I know it did not have a very distinguished racing career and ended it as a test mule for AMG. If I were to repaint in a previously worn racing livery it would be nice to put it in the one where it was most successful (Iwell relativley).

Here's the history for #11R:

Giroix Racing Team/Franck Muller Technowatch

1996 Le Mans 24 Hours: DNF (Giroix/Deletraz/Sala).

1996 BPR GT Championship:
Paul Ricard 15th (Giroix/Deletraz/Cottaz)
Monza 2nd (Giroix/Deletraz/Cottaz)
Jarama 4th (Giroix/Deletraz/Cottaz)
Silverstone DNF (Giroix/Deletraz)
Suzuka 1000km 5th (Giroix/Deletraz/Prutirat)
Zhuhai 7th (Giroix/Deletraz/Prutirat)

The second place at Monza was obviously it's shining moment. If memory serves me right, it wore the solid white livery at that event. I am not certain when it changed to the orange/black livery, I only know the version with the black nose was only seen at Silverstone.

>8^)
ER

Hmmm complete repaint then.
Would have to research that race and try and get as many pictures as I can before commiting to such an extreme move, more so as i am not a fan of white cars.
Will also research the Franke Muller Orange/Black Livery at least it looks different.
Still it all depends on the finances as this is very much a budget purchase as I will need money to live on for the next 25+ years as well as buying+running the Mac.

McLaren or the previous owner should be able to provide this to you if they are satisfied that you are a serious buyer. They provide pics and detailed writeups of all damage that they repair. Those reports really are a pleasure to read--all plain English and good sense, rather than fault codes and abbreviated sentences that other manufacturers love to spit out.

I have already had a rundown of the conversion work carried out though not in great detail, no doubt when the car goes in to have the tank and service done, they will provide me with any information I want

Here's a more thorough breakdown of the life and times of GTR #11R.

The all-white Franck Muller livery appeared on the car at the first three races of the season - 4Hrs of Paul Ricard held March 3rd where it finished 15th, the 4Hrs of Monza held March 24th where as mentioned it finished 2nd, and the 4Hrs of Jarama held April 14th where it finished in 4th position.

GTR #11R did not appear at LeMans Pre-Qualifying on April 28th - instead the Kokusai-Kaihatsu team that eventually used #11R in the race participated in Pre-Qualifying using GTR #10R (that car's only true race history, in fact).

The next race for the BPR GT Series was the 4Hrs Silverstone, held May 12th, which was the first and only sighting of the orange/black livery seen below. Unfortunately, #11R did not finish the race at Silverstone, sighting transmission issues.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20E/mclarens-frank-muller_c.jpg

The 24Hrs of Le Mans was held on June 16th in 1996 and of course the car was there and competed wearing the altered orange/black livery that went mostly unchanged for the rest of the season. Once again the car failed to finish - this time due to a blown engine blamed on missed gear changes according to "Driving Ambition".

Following LeMans, #11R missed the 4Hrs of Nurburgring held June 30th as well as the race that followed at Anderstorp on July 14th. No apparent reason was given, but I have heard that this team was run on a tight budget so possibly sourcing a new engine or having the original repaired was an issue.

It finally re-appeared again at the Suzuka 1000KM event on August 25th (my birthday :sunglasse) and finished a solid 5th place, even beating one of the Gulf GTRs. :cool:

Then for whatever reason it again failed to make an appearance at the next three races back in Europe. For reference, those were the 4Hrs of Brands Hatch held on September 8th, the 4Hrs of Spa held September 22nd, and the 4Hrs of Nogaro held October 6th.

I actually suspect that the car may have stayed in Japan or somewhere close following the Suzuka race as #11R went on to make one final racing appearance at the 4Hrs of Zhuhai in China where it finished in 7th place.

That's about all the info I could gather from 3-4 sources. If anyone has anything to add or change, please do so.

>8^)
ER

For some strange reason my DA is missing in action, I suspect it was put away while decorating last year.
Well I suspect if I do go for a racing livery it would be the Orange/Black it wore for most of it's career.
Not sure how I would get the artwork for the decals though just yet. Suspect I would have to make my own from photographs and get them made up. If I do get 11R I will try and contact Franke Muller Ltd. see what they have in their advertising records, anyway I would need their permission to out them on the car, may even get it paid for if they fancy some free advertising lol.

You'll need the matching watch as well. :grinyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20E/fm27or.jpg

Franck Muller Geneve, Chronograph Endurance 24 - Orange (http://www.diamondhouse.be/franck_muller/watch_orange_chrono_endurance.htm)

>8^)
ER

It sound great :)

thanks Erik for this piece of history.

in Pre-Qualifying using GTR #10R (that car's only true race history, in fact

the webmaster of http://www.frenchrendezvous.cc/ told me he believe to remember #10R had a crash at Le Mans with Deletraz, is it right ?

Phil

Nah Mr Murray would appreciate my Titanium Seiko less weight for the car to move lol

Hello all,

I'v been enjoying this forum for a while now and very much enjoyed the great info, discussions and great pictures. I thought it was time to jump up and ask a question.

This question is revisiting the issue if 11R was the AMG mule or if it was 7R

I was looking in Driving Ambition and found this text in the book that confuses me a bit regarding the history of 11R and its relation to the AMG mule usage.

DA, Page 227:
"Fabien Giroix (Giroix Racing Team) raced a new F1 (this would be 11R a '96 GTR they used for season 96) ...., backed by Franck Muller....
AMG meanwhile bought the '95 model (I guess that Fabien Groix had prevoiusly used- and it would be what car?) and were to use it as a test bed for their forthcoming V12-engined endurance challanger
I also find that 7R was used by Fabien Giroix/Olivier Groulliard/J-M Deletraz during the 1995 Le Mans for the Giroix Racing (all other races 7R was driven by Giroix /../.. for the Jacard GRT team)
according to DA

So was it 7R that AMG used as test bed or 11R and DA gives som incorrect info here ??

Can anyone bring some lights here ?

See page 1 of this thread posting No.4
I asked almost the same question and it was cleared up imidiatley.
It has also been confirmed to me by McLaren that it was indeed chassis 11R used by AMG as they removed the remains of the butchery when it was rebuilt.

I was looking in Driving Ambition and found this text in the book that confuses me a bit regarding the history of 11R and its relation to the AMG mule usage.

DA, Page 227:
"Fabien Giroix (Giroix Racing Team) raced a new F1 (this would be 11R a '96 GTR they used for season 96) ...., backed by Franck Muller....
AMG meanwhile bought the '95 model (I guess that Fabien Groix had prevoiusly used- and it would be what car?) and were to use it as a test bed for their forthcoming V12-engined endurance challanger
I also find that 7R was used by Fabien Giroix/Olivier Groulliard/J-M Deletraz during the 1995 Le Mans for the Giroix Racing (all other races 7R was driven by Giroix /../.. for the Jacard GRT team)
according to DA

So was it 7R that AMG used as test bed or 11R and DA gives som incorrect info here ??

Can anyone bring some lights here ?

We've found a few inaccuracies within the pages of "Driving Ambition" and also one or two on the poster that was included. I tend to think now that this discrepancy is one of those things. It goes along with all those LMs being painted Orange. :grinno:

Through all the research that has been done on this topic, we can now be 100% certain that GTR #11R filled that role with AMG. Le Man provided some supporting evidence from his archives. Also one of the times that #11R was displayed by it's current owner, the sign displayed with the car stated the same previous use by AMG. If we could go back in time and take a peek inside the car, I now have zero doubt what the chassis plate in the car would read.

Strangely, there was a time when GTR #07R was listed for sale and the ad included a reference to use by AMG. It is possible they were basing that statement on the same text you are quoting and not necessarily on solid facts. It certainly did not help us in solving this mystery and whether there is truly more to that story remains unclear.

I have not been able to determine when Larry Kinch purchased #07R, or who may have had that car before him. I do know that it was him who had the car converted by the McLaren for road use and that he sold it in the middle of 2002. Another forum member named "murraydeschot" met up with Larry in Scotland in September 1998 when he owned the car which is the earliest reference I have on him and #07R. Here's Murray's old thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=328706) with an active link to his photos. At that time, it seemed to still be in race form, but I could be wrong. It's last race was at the end of 1995 and it could obviously have had several owners before LK. One of those owners could have been AMG, but there is no solid evidence to support that, and it wouldn't make sense then for them to have needed #11R as well, based on how I understand the story.

Hope that helps and thanks for the compliments on our forum. Feel free to participate and contribute as often as you like. :)

>8^)
ER

the webmaster of http://www.frenchrendezvous.cc/ told me he believe to remember #10R had a crash at Le Mans with Deletraz, is it right ?

I missed this question earlier - sorry.

I haven't seen anything that would suggest that #10R was crashed at LeMans. :dunno:

I suspect that your source probably has a better chance of knowing that me though. Racing incidents happen all the time so depending on the severity it may not have been worth talking about in any of the sources I have seen.

I do know that #10R was crashed while testing an ABS system for the longtail GTRs that never actually materialized. That's supposedly where the "McLaren" badge I own came from.

>8^)
ER

Thanks Erik ;)

In fact, it was during qualifying. I even don't know that #10R took part to a qualifying session when he told me that !
I thinked he was confuse with #11R driven by Deletraz. I am confuse too :(

I will try to know more.

Phil

He was not confused about #10R - it was definitely there at the Pre-Qualifying event. Here's a photo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1%20E/96mcl7.jpg

Digging a little further into the records I have, it seems the car only particpated in the practice sessions and didn't set an official qualifying time. If their lack of participation was due to a crash, it is not mentioned in any of the text I have reviewed. It is my understanding that the Kokusai Kaihatsu team had an invitation to participate in the 1996 race regardless of whether they qualified, as they had been the winning team the previous year.

The best time set in practice by #10R was a 3:54,573. That would have been good for just 19th place on the grid with only two other F1s running slower (#06R and #05R).

>8^)
ER

Well another week over and still no closer to heaven. Still cant get an agreement on price with the buyer for my company. they want me to give the bloody thing away. I am not prepared to hand over 20 years of hard graft and leave myself with nothing to show for it.
See what next week brings, think I need a phantom rival buyer lol.
Still got everything crossed (bit uncomfortable). Decided if i do get it it will stay papaya until I get bored with the single colour, just wish it had worn a more inspiring range of liveries.
Anyway will keep the forum posted.

thats not so nice.

Good luck next week!

Hi Patrick,
from what photographs I have seen it does look to be in excellent condition and appart from the fuel cell this is confirmed by McLaren from what records they have and contact with the owners.
Just not going to trek over to Autohandel unless I have the means to buy it there and then, as all that will do is frustrate me. I like to see what I'm buying and if I'm happy with it then it's a done deal there and then, was expecting the company sale all tied up by the end of last month, alas not.

Good luck carbuilder,

I have a contact who owns a petrol company if it can help.

phil

I know a guy who works at Gulf Holland.

But dont think he has something to say aboutthese cases:-s

lol.
Unless he regularly needs subsea and topside harware for getting Oil and Gas from under the seabed to the surface enough to buy the company that makes it then not much help.
But thanks for the thought.

Hey

11R is off the KS Autohandel site now!..........:)

Another week past and still no progress or anything to report back. I would have hoped to have had word in the event of 11R being sold so still keeping everything crossed.

Hi everyone!

I have a little add on the race history of 11R
To my knowledge the last races of 11R are as follows:

2h Curitiba - 08.12.1996 - #9 - Giroix/Sala - 2nd
2h Brasilia - 15.12.1996 - #9 - Giroix/Sala - 2nd

This beginning to look like a less than likely event, I am preparing myself to be stuck with my company at this rate as there is no sign if the prospective purchasers moving on their woefully low offer. Even dropping my price by 1/4 million has not raised their interest and I'm getting sick of silly waiting games. My way of doing business is see what I want and then wrap it up as soon as posssible.
Still living in hope even though lessened.

thats no good:(

No good or not, unless they stump up at least 1 3/4 Million then I can not even consider buying 11R.

Hello carbuilder,

We are always with you for your dream. A simple question ; do you advertise or not ? And are you in contact with one person ?

Phil

it is not on the ks autohandel website anymore...

I am confused....

The people in the industry know I am interested in selling.
KS Autohandel have not told me is is sold as they know I am still interested I assume they still have it.

Hello Carbuilder,

It was a simple question, so thanks to answer it.
Good luck :)

Phil

and now its back on the KS Autohandel site again!!

11R is off the KS Autohandel site again, it has been missing for about a week now, I wonder if it has actually been purchased this time or if it will reappear on the web site like it previously has.