Bush...

I'm really glad to see our faithful Texan of a President isn't listening to our allies, and is sitll trying to coax Iraq into a war... As I understand, no country in the M. East is going to let us base outta there like the P.Gulf War.... so, if we go, we're screwin our selves... but hey, who cares, as long as our oil is protected!!!! I hate the way Bush runs this show..... And those speeches! Ugh! :bandit:

If it were down to Bush,I would agree entirely.Unfortunately Bush is just the muppet mouthpiece for the military advisors and Wall St wankers who REALLY run America.............

Yeah, anyone played Metal Gear Solid 2? That's how the goverment really is probably! Like some big secret militant area that actually controls the world, but no one really knows it, ya know?

darn you liberals

Check your world events. Do you see who Russia is aligning with lately. Cold war again anyone! I served in the USAF during the Vietnam Conflict, and before going overseas, we used to simulate tactical alerts by launching the B52's with REAL ****ING NUCLEAR BOMBS on them. This was when our relations with Russia were not at their best, looks like what goes around comes around. I truly hope this doesn't happen again, because it sure isn't comforting to have nuclear bombs flying over my head.

Bush is a moron, quite frankly I hope he decides to go into Iraq and overthrow Saddam by himself and never return :mad: :mad: :mad:


I don't want shitty US petroleum, I want the Arabs stuff it's way more refined :mad:

Can there be added option of "I don't really care"?

I'm inot politics, but this, I just don't care. When the time comes for something bad, I'm ready and that's all there is. I climb fences when i reach them, not before they are even built!

Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
darn you liberals

right wing democrat is an oxymoron.

Liberal Philosophy: Your Republican plan spends too much money...Vote for our plan that spends even more money!!

democrats: lets not take the time to think of a logical plan - lets just throw money at it till it dissapears!

REPUBLICANS....Let's not think of a plan,we'll just go bomb the crap out of some bunch of foreigners and hope nobody notices how clueless we are.

I shall never understand you Honda guys!
_______

I drive a Nissan actually.....

umm ok?

umm ok?
________


I'm just jokin' yo....

hrmm
i guess hes black then

first of all, I'm not the one with a Bently logo for my Avatar... second, I'm white... and third, take a joke?

Politics: Where everybody lies to everybody else.

Never trust a politician unless it's for compost.

Originally posted by darkness
Politics: Where everybody lies to everybody else.

Never trust a politician unless it's for compost.

Well said. May I add...
How do you tell when a politician is lying?
He is speaking.

politician and a possum lying dead on the road....main difference?

































skid marks in front of the possum.:D

LOL.. not if the possum runs in front of my car tho...

I'll be swerving to hit the possum with both the front and rear wheels. Just like the rabbits in Central Otago...

And who says Bush runs the show. He doesn't run the show any more than the military generals do... I'll tell you who runs the show...

It's the Herd....

Yep the Herd... the anonymous money men who sit on their reuters terminals around the world and decide where money flows. You set them off panicking in the wrong direction and money will flow out of the US to somewhere else quicker than a stampede of Wildebeest.

You figure Bush Sr could run the Gulf War without the Oil Company cash or go to Afghanistan without the coalition funds... nope. The US War Machine doesn't run on fuel it runs on money and anyone who's had a remote knowledge of a M1A1 Abrams Tank, a F117 Stealth Fighter, a SeaWolf submarine, Tomahawk Cruise Missile or an Apache Helicopter will tell you they bleed money...

And no one really runs the herd, it just responds like a school of fish to whatever stimuli it gets - and when it gets fooled for a while like in Indonesia in the mid 90s when it does get spooked nothing will stop it heading for the hills, not your government, not the Fed or the Bank of England... you may as well try putting a bridle on the wind people...

Originally posted by replicant_008
I'll be swerving to hit the possum with both the front and rear wheels. Just like the rabbits in Central Otago...

And who says Bush runs the show. He doesn't run the show any more than the military generals do... I'll tell you who runs the show...

It's the Herd....

Yep the Herd... the anonymous money men who sit on their reuters terminals around the world and decide where money flows. You set them off panicking in the wrong direction and money will flow out of the US to somewhere else quicker than a stampede of Wildebeest.

You figure Bush Sr could run the Gulf War without the Oil Company cash or go to Afghanistan without the coalition funds... nope. The US War Machine doesn't run on fuel it runs on money and anyone who's had a remote knowledge of a M1A1 Abrams Tank, a F117 Stealth Fighter, a SeaWolf submarine, Tomahawk Cruise Missile or an Apache Helicopter will tell you they bleed money...

And no one really runs the herd, it just responds like a school of fish to whatever stimuli it gets - and when it gets fooled for a while like in Indonesia in the mid 90s when it does get spooked nothing will stop it heading for the hills, not your government, not the Fed or the Bank of England... you may as well try putting a bridle on the wind people...

:eek: :eek: :eek: WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by taranaki


:eek: :eek: :eek: WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

True, true, true, but in the mean time, have a good day

If we listened to our Allies, you know, the ones who'd all be speaking German or Russian right now, we'd be living in a sad world governed by facists and communists.

Some people who've been here for awhile know I can get riled up on the subject so I'll paraphrase. You may not like it, but we really could make every country on this planet our bitch. Most understand this and that’s why they get all riled up. The fact is no country has ever had the disparity in military power that exists today. Every other country that has even had half (and there have only been a couple) this disparity have been conquerors. Germany, Russia, Romans, Huns, Mongolians and the list just keeps going on and on. Name the country that our military has gone in and annexed the last fifty years of this dominance. You can’t. You can come up with all sort of metaphoric bullshit, but the fact is this country could have been the entire western hemisphere.

For the time being, be glad your not in Iraq (unless some poor bastard there found their way to the internet) because we’re coming. Much like I heard all the pissing and moaning around here about our military heading to Afghanistan, we’ll hear it about Iraq.

I’m glad I voted for GW. If anything, it’s the un-elected UN that needs to be disbanded and eliminated. What a joke. Its like a bunch of whiney children there clamoring for more of my hard earned money. (even worse then our own politicians)


btw Quatar is letting us use bases there, so don't say no one in the middle east is yada yada yada....

amen yogz :)

i mean dont even get me started on clintons

Just a few words on bush
Never once before bush has america instigated a conflict. we have always waited until we felt we needed to enter the war or we had no choice. Sometimes we were wrong, sometimes we were right; but never have we started a conflict. now bush wants to start a conflict with iraq. going against everything this country has stood for.
on top of this, Bush has already been able to start a war with out congresional approval.
He has helped get legislature passed that allows for people to be wiretapped without court orders, and for people thought to be terrorists (meaning anyone who has had contact with someone who has had contact with someone who might be related to a terrorist) to be arrested and detained without due process.
hackers are now considered terrorists also.
in a speech just recently regarding forest policy he said somethiing to the effect of "the opinions and actions of the people onlymatter so far, there comes a point when legislature just needs to be made". so, he is against the democratic ideals.
i could go on forever.

Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
amen yogz :)

i mean dont even get me started on clintons

What might i ask did clinton do wrong during his presidency regarding policies and political actions, not monica lewinsky?

The fact is no country has ever had the disparity in military power that exists today - YogsVR4

True. I have to agree with that.

However, never in human history have individuals been able to wreak havoc, destroy property, kill others and influence events than today. With the globalisation of media the acts of an empowered individual can be imprinted on the minds of others in a nanosecond. Never mind the super-empowered individual with the resources and funding to escape the military might of most of the western world.

Fighting a war against a country is an anachronism and has been ever since the second world war. The true war is for the hearts and minds of the people - that's why poets and writers get locked up everyday by regimes right around the world. They are the ones that can do the most harm - by mobilising and motivating the ideals that most of us in the Western World take for granted...

The thing some countries should fear is not the US Military might but the satellite broadcasts of CNN, NickelOdeon, Sitcoms, Sport and Music and the Web as their culture is pervaded by messages of the ethical choice between right and wrong, emancipation of women, universal suffrage, entitlement to freedom and liberal democracy.

Originally posted by higgimonster


What might i ask did clinton do wrong during his presidency regarding policies and political actions, not monica lewinsky?

I dont want to build a shit list on him now, because its not really on topic, but the easiest one is the middle class tax cut he promised when he first ran for president. He never delivered. Instead he raised taxes.

As for Bush putting people behind bars without due process. You'll also take the time and see that those are not American citizens thats being done on. And no - I dont think they should have the rights granted to citizens.

How about what Clinton DIDN'T do...like take Osama Bin Laden when the Sudanese Gov't offered him to Clinton on 4 occassions (and this was AFTER Bin Laden was tied to the first WTC bombing)!

Originally posted by mopord
How about what Clinton DIDN'T do...like take Osama Bin Laden when the Sudanese Gov't offered him to Clinton on 4 occassions (and this was AFTER Bin Laden was tied to the first WTC bombing)!

I am a little confused. Whgy would the sudanese goc't offer Bin Laden to an ex-president?

Originally posted by higgimonster


I am a little confused. Whgy would the sudanese goc't offer Bin Laden to an ex-president?

No, he means they offered him up while he was president. Clinton turned it down.

it makes me sick to know that i live in a country that nearly 50% of the ppl dont see anything wrong with the leader of their country and one of the greatest countries in the world lying under oath:(

I'm from NZ and I can see the problems with leftist governments. Ever since our Labour government has got in, the country has gone down.

They sold our airforce, cancelled a frigate for our navy. Brough millions of dollars of LAV vehicles for our Army, (we are a country surronded by sea). We could of got the equivilant vehicles off the US for atleast 1/2 the price, but we got them off canada. Cause we havn't been an ally of the US since the 70's when we refused to allow their ships here. (Yet again another left wing government)

So now we are stuck with a weak country that can't defend its self and has barely any allies.

Ironicly its also our government that tries to tell the US to not do things like attack Iraq, afghanistain.

So they seem to want other rogue countries, and rogue terriosts been free the travel around the world and destroy freedom. Whilst we sit here twidling our thumbs unable to defend ourselves. YAY!!!

I'm all for the US, UK, and Aussie coallising and taking Iraq. All those countries stand for freedom. They are the countries I want in power, hmm which would i choose as a world hyperpower if i could, the US or Iraq. Which would kill me randomly because my views are different!

People complain because the US can now do more phonetaps, etc. Oh my god, countries like Iraq just shot you if they suspect you to be a traitor. The US takes you too court.

I know i'm all for the US taking out Iraq and such.

sarujin

Remember one thing though Sarujin, the Yanks only seem to attack from one place- the air- meaning innocent Civillians are at risk here.....


Bush does not run thigs, he is not king of the world, that is the Job of the UN, thus he should work through Them

As for labour governments scrapping of our air-force I really don't see the biggie Who the fuck wants to attack us anyway- The only (REALLY OUTSIDE) possibility is Indonesia should they get into a shit-fight with Australia- The best solution could be a United military with Australia- But they cannot be trusted, so we'd better start shopping around.

I reckon all militaries should be modeled around those of the Swiss, top equipment (Not too sure about the next one) Compulsory service for a year and they only attack if they are attacked, hence why they like to stay out of defence pacts, I don't even think they fought in the 1st and 2nd world wars :eek:

I see your point Moss, in a perfect world the UN would be the group in charge of the world, but in a perfect world communism works. The UN has its place, it just needs to be slightly more forceful, instead of being rather weak.

In the case of Iraq, saying you will let our inspectors in, or deal with repurcussions. If they refuse, bomb a weapons factory or something along those lines. Don't just give them another week of grace.

Yes the yanks attack from the air, but I wonder if this actually causes less casualitys. You still get the stray and misguided bombs of course, i'm not denying that. But you get misfiring with tanks and ships. With aircraft you don't have to worry about the battle just raging bigger and bigger and getting out of control (Think Black Hawk Down, and look how many civilians got killed). But the main reason the US does it, is why should its young be dieing easily, if they have the advantage of air, why not use it to the fullest?


With us not having a strike wing of our airforce, yes we will probably never be attack, as Australia is in the way. But shouldn't we support them aswell by having a few planes, if we wanted a united airforce with aussie, we have to put money into aswell and not just expect defence for free.


sarujin

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi

I reckon all militaries should be modeled around those of the Swiss, top equipment (Not too sure about the next one) Compulsory service for a year and they only attack if they are attacked, hence why they like to stay out of defence pacts, I don't even think they fought in the 1st and 2nd world wars :eek:

So what do you think would have happened if Hitler was successful in Europe and had the Swiss surrounded? Do you honestly think he would not have attacked them just because they said they were neutral? I don't think the other European countries had any choice but to defend themselves.

The swiss are in the best defensive position geographically on the entire planet. Thats the only reason they weren't overrun las century.

The UN is an un-elected waste of money. They cannot act as "king of the world" as you claim for Bush. The last time I checked, none of their proposals were on my ballot, how about yours?

Innocent civillians is a crock of shit. Its a term used like "its for the children" See some of the threads on Afganistan. The people there are either actively trying to stop Saddam, getting out of the way or are behind him. They are hardly ignorant of whats going on. I'm sure people going into bomb making factories are thinking "Gee, I'm an innocent civilian, nobody would ever bomb this building" :rolleyes:

Like I've said before. Help, run or die.

*zips up 4 layers of flame-retardant suits*

Now, for those who can't take a joke/a hit on the chin, my apologies, but I get very easily fired up when it comes to shitty ass politics. None of the following is meant to offend anyone. It is merely a VERY strongly posed side of my argument. Now for the fun part!!! :evillaugh

Bush handled 9/11 beautifully. I was amazed that an uneducated, inexperienced, inbred politician from Texass of all places could do anything reasonable with such a catastrophe on his hands, but I'll be damned if Dubya didn't do well. He rallied a nation who had otherwise been divided and very anti-pride. Many a time had I said "F#ck the U.S.! This place sucks!" I'll admit it. But that is where my support of a Bush ends.

Just as Clinton neglected to lower taxes... Take a bright-eyed-bushy-tailed look at Dubya's daddy! He made campaign promises that the nation would be more financially stable at the end of his term, and wow... guess where we were... sinking into deeper national debt than when his ass came in.

Now let's take a look at why the WTC fell. Clinton knew better than to get involved in a war that has been raging since the fucking 11th century. Yes, friends, that's right... The muslims are still sore over losing the CRUSADES in the 11th-13th centuries AD. They hate money as a source of a nation, and therefore America is satan. Dubya, although not on his own accord, brought the nearly 10-year-long plan to an apex simply by running for office. Once elected, what better time than to retaliate against someone who bears the same family name as the asshole who came in and stuck his fingers in your hard-earned honey pot??? It was perfect. He came in naive, unsuspecting, and the utterly perfect victim.

It's not a matter of pride. Truly chauvinistic (as in the original meaning of the term... if you don't know, look it up) people don't need to run around beating the living shit out of peoples and nations lesser than them just so they can know they are the best from experience. No, they can sit back and be happy in knowing that they are the best on their own accord. So called "proving" it is likely the dumbest thing I've ever heard.




I've had enough of turning blue in the face from trying to argue this today, but I will likely be back later. Flame me as you may, but as a reformed chauvinist, I am comfortable sitting back.

Originally posted by saturntangerine


Bush handled 9/11 beautifully. I was amazed that an uneducated, inexperienced, inbred politician from Texass of all places could do anything reasonable with such a catastrophe on his hands, but I'll be damned if Dubya didn't do well. He rallied a nation who had otherwise been divided and very anti-pride. Many a time had I said "F#ck the U.S.! This place sucks!" I'll admit it. But that is where my support of a Bush ends.






IMO:
it wasn't Bush that bought the nation together, I am convinced it was the attack that did it :( It has been said on AF before (I think by Mr T) Al Bundy could have sat up on that desk thingee and said "We are going to shove it in those terrorists ass and anyone else who gets in our way" and the nation would have gonecrazy for him :rolleyes:

All bush had to do to do well out of 9/11 was to express the outrage of the average American.Had he bothered to ask why an organized group of people were prepared to end their own lives in a direct terror attackon the World Trade Center,he would have had to confront the fact that the United States' foreign policy is deeply offensive to parts of the rest of the world.

The US may well have the biggest armed forces in the world,but their supremacy is achieved purely by weight of numbers.

The WTC was brought down in a co-ordinated and precisely -planned attack by a handful of men armed with little more than carton knives.The entire weight of the US military has so far failed to bring the alleged organiser to justice,despite having bombed Afghanistan to kingdom come with billions of dollars'worth of ordinance.

in terms of news effect, the loss of the WTC will be one of the major news stories of the decade.The attacks by the US on a third-world country of no strategic advantage is something that has been going on in various forms more or less continuously since the 1950's.

Name calling against Bush is the sign of an extremely weak arguement.

Comparing what one person didn't do to what another person didn't do is akin of "My daddy can beat up your daddy"

Fact of the matter is most people oversimplify or overgeneralize politics. Or they have a uncanny nack of knowing what a politician is thinking. Just look at all the posts in this thread that mention what is going on in the minds of these people.

The US military was sent in to destroy the organization behind the bombing. They weren't going in as police officers to "bring the alleged organiser to justice". The country was hardly bombed to kingdom come. Ask Japanese or the Germans about that.

If the government has proof that Iraq was part of the planning of 9/11 or they are planning on supporting other attacts, I will push and prod for a preemptive strike to eliminate it. And no, the governent does not have to give all the evidence out to the general public before it goes. The people who provide that information would be hung out to dry.

Those who dont like Bush, you're always welcome to your opinion. Those of you who live here, feel free to vote for someone else in the next election. (Dont bring up the last election. Bush won. Even after that independant count, he still won Florida)

My political preference is Libertarian, but their canidate was as dishonest as Gore. So my vote will still go to this administration.

Anyone in a different country that cannot vote. To bad. So sad for you. Search for one of my other threads on how just about every country of the world has an opinion on the US, but very few countries in the rest of the world give two shits about them.

Oh - and since there are always people who like to use slurs around here (and thats not always bad mind you) Let me say. HA HA to fucking bad. There really isn't shit you can do about it! :finger: -hope that gets ya going again :)

That is all for now. :flash:

My name calling of Bush reflects my personal opinion of him. He once called himself the governor "of the great state of Florida"... That doesn't reflect well upon his mental status, IMHO.


Personally, Bush and Gore made me want to Ralph (as in Nader), but I voted for one of the two others since Nader didn't have a bloody chance in Hell... Looks like I'm voting for my friend next election... then he'll have 2 votes for president :rolleyes:

Originally posted by saturntangerine
Looks like I'm voting for my friend next election... then he'll have 2 votes for president :rolleyes:

Vote me :licker:

Yeah good points there Yogs.

As I was reading from your post and thinking about it. Is really the general public has no idea in hell what is going on in these politics. The media tries to portray themselves as compatent in them, but really they are not. Its only an event like 11-9 (date written correctly) that brings this to everyones politics.

Then everyone goes on about how it could be stopped, how it could be averted, how the government should of done something else etc.... Its pure crap, the government does the best it can. Yes some policies might be not liked, but a hell of a lot more are better. You just never here all the good stuff that is happening.

I think Bush has a better idea what is happening at the moment than any of us, and i'm glad i'm not the one running the show.

sarujin

hehe

exactly right
we dont have a clue what kind of information he has
so we dont have to right to judge the decisions hes making

Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
hehe

exactly right
we dont have a clue what kind of information he has
so we dont have to right to judge the decisions hes making

This idea scares me beyond words.What you are saying is"Let's give our total and uncritical support to this guy,and if more terrorist attacks happen,it's got nothing to do with our government."


THE UNITED STATES WAS ATTACKED FOR A REASON

Retaliating with a huge amount of ordinance may make the average southern redneck feel better about the humiliation that they have seen inflicted on their beloved Uncle Sam,but going out and bombing the crap out of somewhere such as Iraq under the banner of a 'war against terrorism' is bullshit.Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi ,not an Iraqi or an Afghani.He has more than enough resources to remove himself to a nice little chalet in Switzerland,wait for the bombs to stop falling and then train and dispatch a fresh wave of terrorists(a form of warrior against which no country has ever formulated a defence)to wreak havoc among the innocent citizens of the U.S.(i.e. you and your family).

The people who are supporting the idea of attacking Iraq are the military,the arms merchants,the oil billionaire and the media.They all stand to do well out of more conflict.There is no plausible reason for the U.S.to continue stamping around the Middle East causing trouble in a region that it has no business interfering in.

If the average U.S. citizen wants to sit back and say


we dont have a clue what kind of information he has
so we dont have to right to judge the decisions hes making

then the most powerful nation in the world just became a military junta,not a democracy.

Well I see that differently Taranki.

You vote for a government or president, for their views and ideals. How you think they will run the government, basicly for everything you can.

Yes I relise that the terroist attacks are due to the US government in some aspects, but that doesn't mean the US is wrong. It just means some individual is against them.

Oh and your last point isn't fully true, people get to judge the decision of a president by VOTING for him at the start of elections. Then for the next 4 years its up to him to make the decisions for the country. If you had everyone in the country putting in their input and opinion constantly you'd end up with the UN, something that doens't work.

But just one thing about being more informed, everyone says that Iraq shouldn't be atacked etc. But for all you know, the US government may know for sure Osama is there. Its a possibility

sarujin

You vote for a government or president, for their views and ideals. How you think they will run the government, basically for everything you can.
Shit, I didn't vote for his oil drilling, tree choppin', war startin', no etiquette havin', poor speech givin, momma's boy fakin ass! And I think we have EVERY right to judge him. The fact that we don't know all the facts makes it all the more our right... Why don't we have all the facts? Every ask your self that? If we were totally clean of all wrong doing, then we'd have nothing to hide.... right? But yet, rumors come up that our FBI was tipped off about planes being flown in to building MONTHS before it happened, yet, that was swept under the table.. why? Cause wars make money... Daddy Bush sure knew that when he started the Gulf War...And the Bush family knows that the best... Don't you find it slightly ironic that while Clinton was in office, no wars...? But as soon as baby Bush is in office... WAR ON IRAQ! Even though they had nothing to do with the terrorist acts... He sucks... In my opinion... And how did he win that election anyway? Remember how little Jeb led Florida, and it was Florida's election ballots that went missing? Hmmm... Gore was even pronounced a winner, then, OOPS! Where's Florida's ballots? I dunno? Where'd they go? Oh, there they are! And look! My brother won!! Yeah! :flipa: How retarded...

This idea scares me beyond words.What you are saying is"Let's give our total and uncritical support to this guy,and if more terrorist attacks happen,it's got nothing to do with our government."

Say it again... all together... 'SCARES ME!!!'
I agree whole heartedly.... what a scary time
to have that Texan behind the wheel....

I'd also like to add that 72% of us think he's sucky....

It is very rare for any president to have ever been elected by a majority of the citizens of the US. As has already been pointed out,ONLY 28% OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS THOUGHT BUSH WAS WORTH VOTING FOR.Add to that figure all the younger citizens of the US who are ntitled to fight and die for Bush's crackpot strategies,but not to vote against them and the figure gets even smaller.

If the US wants to spend this century in fear of terrorist attacks,I suggest that they should continue to allow their elected leaders to behave like Hitler.
\
As for the concept that the Sept 11 attacks were the work of a small bunch of disaffected individuals,forget it.The terrorists simply represent the most extreme form of anti-American feeling.

Much as George Bush would love you to believe,the US is not the world's peacekeeper.The current administration is simply behaving badly because they believe that that is what will get them re-elected.

Originally posted by G-ealousy

Don't you find it slightly ironic that while Clinton was in office, no wars...? But as soon as baby Bush is in office... WAR ON IRAQ!



What do you call Bosnia, Somalia, and all of those other little skirmishes that CLINTON sent our military. He was the master of using US troops to be the UN's police force. And did you know that while US troops were at the places fighting for Clinton's UN buddies, they were not allowed to wear the US flag on any part of their uniform?


Originally posted by taranaki
It is very rare for any president to have ever been elected by a majority of the citizens of the US. As has already been pointed out,ONLY 28% OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS THOUGHT BUSH WAS WORTH VOTING FOR.Add to that figure all the younger citizens of the US who are ntitled to fight and die for Bush's crackpot strategies,but not to vote against them and the figure gets even smaller.

I don't know what military you are talking about, because the Air Force that I served in didn't allow you to enter until age 18(legal voting age) and contrary to what you must believe, the military doesn't stop you from voting, nor does it tell you whom to vote for. The only time I recall military votes trying to be dissallowed was in Florida, and it was Gore's legal people trying to disallow them.

Originally posted by taranaki

Much as George Bush would love you to believe,the US is not the world's peacekeeper.The current administration is simply behaving badly because they believe that that is what will get them re-elected.


See the statement above. Clint perfected using the military as the UN's police force, and left them there for somebody else to worry about later on.

i thought this thread was going to be about something else, heh.

Well I guess this thread is coming to the end of its life.

So I guess us people who think Bush is doing a good job, and those who think he isn't can agree on one thing.
We have to wait till 2004 till it changes.

sarujin

To the people outside of the US who don’t like Bush - You're entitled to your opinion. Feel free to voice it some more, but you're tilting at windmills. You're concerns are meaningless and your accusations are groundless. You're taking statistical information out of context and drawing unsubstantiated facts from it.

Those in the US who didn't vote for the guy. Feel free to whine and whimper, its ok. We expect that kind of behavior. You guys are making these claims on Bush with no facts to back you up other then claims made by other people with no facts, I should be able to do the same to you guys. I can make any claims and they musts be true right? Either you guys are unwilling to see beyond the rhetoric that you’re expounding on or you truly are stupid.

Its one thing to say you don’t agree and why. Its another to sit there and say “What a dumb ass that was elected by his daddy.” What a crock of shit. It’s the sign of intellectual laziness to back up arguments with name calling. Pretty common among liberals. I don’t agree with everything that Bush says and does. Also don’t think that I disagreed with Clinton on everything he stood for. The world is not black and white. Stop pretending that it is.

As for more of this innocent civilian and other bullshit. If you’re willing to turn the other cheek as your family and friends are slaughtered, that’s your choice. If you believe that doing nothing is the way to go, then continue as you are and do nothing. I don’t agree and action needs to be taken.

Don’t be so naïve to believe that its just “billionaires and oil-men” who want this war. Do they want it? I’m sure some do. That doesn’t make it wrong.

Mr. T. -
Add to that figure all the younger citizens of the US who are ntitled to fight and die for Bush's crackpot strategies,but not to vote against them and the figure gets even smaller.

As pointed out, this is patently untrue. Once again, use of the words crackpot surely isn’t the way to have an argument. What makes them qualify as a “crackpot strategy”. If someone here chooses not to vote, then that’s their choice. Its not like the election just comes out of nowhere and people aren’t given the opportunity to participate.

Mr T.
Much as George Bush would love you to believe,the US is not the world's peacekeeper.The current administration is simply behaving badly because they believe that that is what will get them re-elected.

Another subjective statement. The administration is not behaving badly. Of course he is believes the way he’s acting is going to get him re- elected. How ridicules not to think that. If he’s doing whats right and people understand that, he’ll be elected for another term. If we don’t like what he’s doing, he won’t be. Duh.

Mr T.
Don't you find it slightly ironic that while Clinton was in office, no wars...? But as soon as baby Bush is in office... WAR ON IRAQ!

What? Do you not remember history? What do you call Bosnia? Or how about the no-fly zones in Iraq. I’m sure someone has mentioned Somalia to you.

Ok. I’ve had enough for now. Remember one of the first paragraphs here. Keep slinging the liberal mud. Childish name calling is fun to laugh at.

There's so much to say in this thread that I don't know where to start..

From Taranaki: ONLY 28% OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS THOUGHT BUSH WAS WORTH VOTING FOR...
I thought he was worth voting for...however, I also thought the libertarian party was more worth voting for. But Bush was my second choice.
From Taranaki: If the US wants to spend this century in fear of terrorist attacks,I suggest that they should continue to allow their elected leaders to behave like Hitler.
From Taranaki, back in this thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=510252#post510252) : Any argument that relies on comparing your opponent to an historical tyrant is fundamentally weak - to compare your opponent to tyranny from both ends of the spectrum is simply ridiculous.if you can't make an argument stand on its own two feet,you need to look at its basic premise and rethink your approach.
:rolleyes:
From G-ealousy: The fact that we don't know all the facts makes it all the more our right... Why don't we have all the facts? Every ask your self that?
Because quite frankly if every American knew half of everything that goes on, from terrorist threats, to aliens, to whatever, we would have a lot of scared people running around fully armed. And that is a much more dangerous situation.

And to all of the people talking about his speech-giving skills: Well, I bet they're a hell of a lot better than yours. The guy gives hundreds of speeches every year. Tell me honestly that you could give that many speeches and never mis-read or stumble over a word. Hell, I'm notorious for stumbling when reading aloud, partially because my brain goes faster than my mouth ever could. And sometimes I can't think of the right word either, and I end up saying something stupid like "amblivicise" or one of those Bush-isms. Sometimes I make up a word, like "apostrophise" (to use an apostrophe). And I'm a freaking Mensan!!! Nobody's perfect, and why should one of your biggest complaints about the leader of America be something that has no effect whatsoever on his actual job performance???

Having said all that, I don't think that Bush is the best President that we could ask for. But I don't think we'll ever have a really good one either. Unfortunately, people are inherently corruptible, and due to the current elective process (and the way a presidential candidate is advertised as a 'product', on TV, radio, newspapers and such), I don't think we will ever really have a non-corrupt president. The current process essentially requires a person to be corrupt in order to be electable. And I also think that anyone worth having as a president would not touch the job with a ten-foot pole.

So until further notice, I will continue to vote Libertarian, as I find that to be the party least likely to add to the corruption, and most likely to allow the American Public the liberty of making our own stupid mistakes with our own stupid money. I do know enough to realize that the best thing for the economy is for every job to assist in producing a 'product' of some sort, and quite frankly the government tends to be a dead weight on capitalism.

Feel free to flame away, everyone.

Originally posted by |Banchi1O5|
darn you liberals

That's what i'm saying.... I like Mr. Bush, and I think he's doing a pretty good job.

I've wrote way too much on this subject, so i dont wanna start again :)

Is Taranaki the resident US expert/hater? lol

Originally posted by DonCorleone


That's what i'm saying.... I like Mr. Bush, and I think he's doing a pretty good job.

I've wrote way too much on this subject, so i dont wanna start again :)

Is Taranaki the resident US expert/hater? lol

Taranaki's not usually. Moppie's the worst.

Originally posted by boingo82


Taranaki's not usually. Moppie's the worst.


Nah I'm better :finger4: :D


I propose I am the biggest Bush hater though :finger:

Originally posted by DonCorleone


Is Taranaki the resident US expert/hater? lol

A rough call there DonCorleone....but understandable

Part of the propaganda foisted on the American public is that if someone is against any facet of American government policy,they are anti-american.The hillbillys love that kind of simplistic pseudopatriotic claptrap,but I am hoping that most Americans can think for themselves.

The present administration has decreed that Iraq may have the capacity to build weapons of mass destruction,and in the face of mounting opposition from the heads of state of the civilised world,is preparing to mount an armed intrusion onto Iraqi soil.If the Iraqis dohave such weapons,this action would be precisely the kind of act of war that would permit the Iraqis a REASON TO USE THEM.

Even in the very worst of the Cold War,the administrations new better than to test the strength of their opposition by starting a war.

None of this has any bearing on how I see the average American.It would be simplistic and racist for me to label all Americans as bad simply because their leaders are clueless in the foreign policy department.If you are prepared to blindly follow these idiots into world war three,shame on you.It won't resolve anything.

The proposed solo action by the United States administration is doomed to failure.Let's face it,the entire military and intelligence network of the U.S. has failed to locate any trace of Osama Bin Laden.Perhaps this latest bout of posturing is supposed to make us all forget that.