Bush...

Originally posted by taranaki
Part of the propaganda foisted on the American public is that if someone is against any facet of American government policy,they are anti-american.The hillbillys love that kind of simplistic pseudopatriotic claptrap,but I am hoping that most Americans can think for themselves.


Actually most of us do. It seems as though some people in the world just cant believe that we don’t agree with them. Its funny how our media is considered to put out “propaganda” while their own newspapers are censored by their governments. Take a look at the largest US paper – the New York Times and you’ll see many articles critical with the administration or www.freep.com (The Detroit Free Press) which is more local to me which is loaded with liberal PROPOGANDA. See, its easy to use the word.


The present administration has decreed that Iraq may have the capacity to build weapons of mass destruction,and in the face of mounting opposition from the heads of state of the civilised world,is preparing to mount an armed intrusion onto Iraqi soil.If the Iraqis dohave such weapons,this action would be precisely the kind of act of war that would permit the Iraqis a REASON TO USE THEM.


I don’t think your logic is sound. Iraqis have used WMD on their own people. Ask the Kurds. If you notice the heads of the civilized world are starting to get not be opposed to a preemptive strike.


Even in the very worst of the Cold War,the administrations new better than to test the strength of their opposition by starting a war.


??? Do Korea, Grenada, Panama, Cuba, Nicaragua and a few dozen others come to mind?


None of this has any bearing on how I see the average American.It would be simplistic and racist for me to label all Americans as bad simply because their leaders are clueless in the foreign policy department.If you are prepared to blindly follow these idiots into world war three,shame on you.It won't resolve anything.


Sorry Mr. T. I was thinking that you are pretty clueless as it comes to foreign policy. You immediately label people you disagree with as being stupid and not knowing what they are doing. I know they have a shit load more information then any of us do, and this includes other leaders who disagree with our Iraq stance. Its fine to disagree and have your reasons, but calling the head of state clueless is getting near the “I am not… you are!” childish argument.


The proposed solo action by the United States administration is doomed to failure.Let's face it,the entire military and intelligence network of the U.S. has failed to locate any trace of Osama Bin Laden.Perhaps this latest bout of posturing is supposed to make us all forget that.

Ah yes, the proposed solo action. Sorry, but there is no proposal on the table. Proposals can be accepted or rejected. How can a solo action be proposed? Aside from that, every military action ever undertaken by this country was announced by others as “Doomed to failure” Isn’t it possible that we can find a trace of OBL because he was buried under a million tons of rubble? I don’t know, but there have been other people (Jimmy Hoffa) that have disappeared without a trace no matter how hard they were looked for.

I really hope we don't go to war, but you cannot back down. You have to show strength other wise people like So-damn-insane will get bolder. Back in the Vietnam Era, when I was still stationed in the States, we actually got information that the Russians were building up troop strength near the Aleutians so we sent our nuclear bombers and tankers to Alaska. You really cannot back down. What has "talking" gotten us in Iraq, and other places, nothing.

Let's make an example out of someone to show how strong we are... Oh, wait. I'm being told now that it's already been done!?!? H...H...Hiroshima, anyone??? OBL was damned bold in making an attack on a power that has the ability to turn the entire Middle East into one giant glass menagerie. But I was always told to beware he who has nothing to lose. You don't back someone into a corner because you never know if they will snap and attack, or just give way...

Sure, we don't want to be attacked again. Goodness knows we've had enough of that in the last 365 days, but let's not just go in with barrels smoking if we still have other unresolved issues. OBL is still missing. The Anthrax attackers are still AWOL. Hell, while we're at it, let's deal with Killer Bees and West Nile Virus. IMHO, we've got enough kettles over the fire to keep ourselves busy HERE let alone overseas. We have enough allies that we can keep one eye open at all times such that we aren't caught in the outhouse with our pants down...

Originally posted by saturntangerine

Sure, we don't want to be attacked again. Goodness knows we've had enough of that in the last 365 days, but let's not just go in with barrels smoking if we still have other unresolved issues. OBL is still missing. The Anthrax attackers are still AWOL. Hell, while we're at it, let's deal with Killer Bees and West Nile Virus. IMHO, we've got enough kettles over the fire to keep ourselves busy HERE let alone overseas. We have enough allies that we can keep one eye open at all times such that we aren't caught in the outhouse with our pants down...

yea, and what happens when we take care of that stuff while Saddam builds nuclear weapons?

I would rather take care of him before he gets any nuclear weapons, because that's when there will be real terror. I dont think you're lookin to the future, i sure as hell dont want our country fighting a mad man with nuclear weapons. Mad man is enough.

Originally posted by DonCorleone


yea, and what happens when we take care of that stuff while Saddam builds nuclear weapons?

We still don't have conclusive evidence that he has these capabilities (site: VP Dick Cheney on Nightline) Yes, I heard this w/my very own ears.

Besides... History repeats itself... What do you do when your economy is in the shitter and there could be a war at hand??? Get involved. Well, that's great and all, but most of our steel is now imported and hardly anyone specializes in labor anymore b/c "White collar is so much more dignified". Our Govt. has seen to that.

I'm not in the mood for a rant right now, but I'm sure I will make myself heard at a later date.

So what has Saddam have to hide? Why does he not allow the weapons inspectors inside to check? If you remember correctly, Iraq LOST the conflict! It's like a little child who lies to their parents and say, "No, I don't have anything that is bad".

When are the United Ninnys going to wake up and realize Saddam is laughing at them for being so gullible?

As far as the French, have they forgotten who has helped to bail out their ass twice in world wars? What a bunch of sissys!

Originally posted by carnut
So what has Saddam have to hide? Why does he not allow the weapons inspectors inside to check? If you remember correctly, Iraq LOST the conflict! It's like a little child who lies to their parents and say, "No, I don't have anything that is bad".

When are the United Ninnys going to wake up and realize Saddam is laughing at them for being so gullible?

As far as the French, have they forgotten who has helped to bail out their ass twice in world wars? What a bunch of sissys!

I hope the UN does nothing and the US pulls out of it.

The French. While I like making fun of them as much as the next guy, their foreign minister (I think) said after Bush's UN speach that the French people were fully aware of what they owed the United States. That was a pleasant surprise. I know that doesn't mean that they'll suddenly develop a backbone, but they do remember their history.

Originally posted by saturntangerine
We still don't have conclusive evidence that he has these capabilities
The only evidence we'll have is when he actually uses them. Imagine nukes dropped or fired at the WTC site. Take out NY they will, yes!

We DO have evidence that they are trying to build these weapons... and its just a matter of time before they succeed. What options do we have? Sit around until half the US is vaporized?:bloated:

I am not happy with anyone who is trying to get into bed with Tony Blair...

REPUBLICANS....Let's not think of a plan,we'll just go bomb the crap out of some bunch of foreigners and hope nobody notices how clueless we are.

Don't you wish that America's most famous john, Bill Clinton, had bombed the crap out of Osama bin Laden while he had the chance? Before bin Laden had a chance to murder 3000 innocent Americans?

Don't you wish America's most famous girlyboy, Bill Clinton, had taken bin Laden back when the Sudanese government had him and offered him to us THREE times?

Don't you wish Clinton had done something, ANYTHING, when bin Laden first murdered Americans in 1993, and, having gotten away with that, continued to murder us in Africa and on the USS Cole?

Don't you wish America's most famous self-absorbed psychopath, Bill Clinton, had given even a little bit of a rat's a** about the American people instead of only himself?

I do and I thank God we finally have a real man in the White House who cares about the American people and our well being and who allows terrorists to bring down buildings in this country while he jerks off into a sink. A real man who doesn't decide public and foreign policy, not to mention WHERE TO GO ON VACATION based on POLLS for God's sake. A man who will take out the terrorist, Saddam Hussein, before he has a chance to murder Americans- maybe you or your family, by the way.

How soon some of us forget. How amazing it is that some have no grasp of the seriousness of what this nation faces. We have an opportunity to do to Hussein what we should have done to bin Laden and there are actually people in this country who are willing to see more dead Americans because in the crowd they run in, it's not "cool" to be in favor of war. And that's all it is.

And when there is a democratic government in Iraq and gas is down to about $1 a gallon because OPEC no longer has any power over us because there is a democratic leader running Iraq, and we don't have to worry about botulism being dumped in our water supply, will you admit you were wrong?

Originally posted by WakkaWu


Don't you wish that America's most famous john, Bill Clinton, had bombed the crap out of Osama bin Laden while he had the chance? Before bin Laden had a chance to murder 3000 innocent Americans?

Don't you wish America's most famous girlyboy, Bill Clinton, had taken bin Laden back when the Sudanese government had him and offered him to us THREE times?

Don't you wish Clinton had done something, ANYTHING, when bin Laden first murdered Americans in 1993, and, having gotten away with that, continued to murder us in Africa and on the USS Cole?

Don't you wish America's most famous self-absorbed psychopath, Bill Clinton, had given even a little bit of a rat's a** about the American people instead of only himself?

I do and I thank God we finally have a real man in the White House who cares about the American people and our well being and who allows terrorists to bring down buildings in this country while he jerks off into a sink. A real man who doesn't decide public and foreign policy, not to mention WHERE TO GO ON VACATION based on POLLS for God's sake. A man who will take out the terrorist, Saddam Hussein, before he has a chance to murder Americans- maybe you or your family, by the way.

How soon some of us forget. How amazing it is that some have no grasp of the seriousness of what this nation faces. We have an opportunity to do to Hussein what we should have done to bin Laden and there are actually people in this country who are willing to see more dead Americans because in the crowd they run in, it's not "cool" to be in favor of war. And that's all it is.

And when there is a democratic government in Iraq and gas is down to about $1 a gallon because OPEC no longer has any power over us because there is a democratic leader running Iraq, and we don't have to worry about botulism being dumped in our water supply, will you admit you were wrong?


This is why I hate the media- look what it does to people. :rolleyes:

IF Saddam Hussein was going to nuke anyone- he would have done it by now- especially after the incidents of 1997 and the Gulf war- but he didn't- WHY has he let weapons inspectors representing the UN into Iraq if he has all these weapons? SHOULD HE HAVE NEUCLEAR WEAPONS And if you guys surround him with bombs and he has nothing to lose- don't you think he would just hit the switch and blow you to Kingdom come? think about that.

All this shit about Iraq is just to build fear in Americans so they will support Bush- nobody else is vaguely interested

[QUOTE]This is why I hate the media- look what it does to people. IF Saddam Hussein was going to nuke anyone- he would have done it by now- especially after the incidents of 1997 and the Gulf war- but he didn't- WHY has he let weapons inspectors representing the UN into Iraq if he has all these weapons? SHOULD HE HAVE NEUCLEAR WEAPONS And if you guys surround him with bombs and he has nothing to lose- don't you think he would just hit the switch and blow you to Kingdom come? think about that.

All this shit about Iraq is just to build fear in Americans so they will support Bush- nobody else is vaguely interested[QUOTE]



Well first of all, if anything the media has been sounding the drums AGAINST this very necessary action. So the media hasn't done anything to ME. I can look at recent history and see what needs to be done in spite of the best efforts of the media to turn the American people against their president in a time when he is trying to prevent futher attacks on us. Seems like the only media dupes around are the ones who actually believe that President Bush would risk the lives of our service men and women for no other reason than to garner "support". After all, this isn't Bill Clinton trying to get Monica Lewinsky off the front pages. And as far as the UN goes, the UN is the biggest joke since the League of Nations. The UN are the ones desperately trying to rescue Hussein's sorry ass from his deserved fate. The UN is the outfit that has tried to string this out with phony "weapons inspections" in which weapons will NEVER be found because the "weapons inspectors" are under orders NOT to find anything. The nations in the UN are the ones that have been doing business with Saddam Hussein in violation of the UN sanctions for the last eleven years and who also are nothing but a bunch of third world failed socialist countries who hate the United States just as much as Hussein does. So anyone who takes the UN seriously and their phony "weapons inspections" is nothing but a fool. The national security of the United States and it's people does not depend on the anti-American UN and it's love for Saddam Hussein.

Second of all, it was never about Saddam Hussein nuking anyone like a country would do in a conventional conflict. There is ample evidence that Hussein was in cahoots with bin Laden's organization in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, and based on what we have been told, there is evidence that Hussein has been selling the weapons he has to terrorist groups who have access to this country. Hussein doesn't have the balls to declare war on this nation- he works through the deluded death cult members called Islamists to acheive his goals.

Before you get too orgasmic over the United Nations and your hatred for this good man we now have as president, think about what your life would be like with Saddam Hussein in complete control of the oil supply in that part of the world. Think about Saddam Hussein basically in control of the world economy. Before you continue defending Hussein think about what your life would be like right now if the United States hadn't come in six decades ago and rescued your whiny pacifist asses from Hitler and Mussolini.

Why don't you and everybody who believes like you actually go to Iraq and live under the regime you love so much. Its easy to sit back in safety and comfort, thinking that YOU'LL never get blown up- as long as it's just Americans it's ok-and run your mouth about how George Bush is a trigger happy cowboy and all the rest of the crap that a nation with no balls has to say. You said the same things about Ronald Reagan and you're sitting pretty today with no threat from the Communist Soviet Union because of Reagan and his courage and determination to rid the world of that threat. This is why you people have the reputation you do and why you deserve to live under dictatorship. We should have left Hitler in power.

Oh great....another right wing redneck.:bloated:

I don't wish Bill Clinton had 'bombed the crap' out of anybody.Bombing is a cowardly way to fight,that's why the U.S is so good at it.

And as for the crap about saving the world in 1945,The US let its allies die in their millions by their craven cowardice in the early years in both ww1 and ww2,and committed the most obscene of war crimes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.But I guess you are pretty proud of those.

Well first of all, if anything the media has been sounding the drums AGAINST this very necessary action. So the media hasn't done anything to ME. I can look at recent history and see what needs to be done in spite of the best efforts of the media to turn the American people against their president in a time when he is trying to prevent futher attacks on us. Seems like the only media dupes around are the ones who actually believe that President Bush would risk the lives of our service men and women for no other reason than to garner "support". After all, this isn't Bill Clinton trying to get Monica Lewinsky off the front pages. And as far as the UN goes, the UN is the biggest joke since the League of Nations. The UN are the ones desperately trying to rescue Hussein's sorry ass from his deserved fate. The UN is the outfit that has tried to string this out with phony "weapons inspections" in which weapons will NEVER be found because the "weapons inspectors" are under orders NOT to find anything. The nations in the UN are the ones that have been doing business with Saddam Hussein in violation of the UN sanctions for the last eleven years and who also are nothing but a bunch of third world failed socialist countries who hate the United States just as much as Hussein does. So anyone who takes the UN seriously and their phony "weapons inspections" is nothing but a fool. The national security of the United States and it's people does not depend on the anti-American UN and it's love for Saddam Hussein.
UN is third world socialist nations are they? Tahts odd because the E.U, Japan, Australia, NZ and Canada are all a part of this U.N. I hardly call them third world Socialist Nations- if we didn't have the UN Bush would bully everyone around and generally put HIS way as the ONLY way the world is a allowed to think. And You have no proof that they are told to find anything- So go fuck yourself- and yes- the Security of all nations depends on the UN.

Second of all, it was never about Saddam Hussein nuking anyone like a country would do in a conventional conflict. There is ample evidence that Hussein was in cahoots with bin Laden's organization in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, and based on what we have been told, there is evidence that Hussein has been selling the weapons he has to terrorist groups who have access to this country. Hussein doesn't have the balls to declare war on this nation- he works through the deluded death cult members called Islamists to acheive his goals.
Can I see this proof????

Becuase it is a well known fact that Hussein is NOT tied up with the Taleban or Al Qaeda, full stop.
Before you get too orgasmic over the United Nations and your hatred for this good man we now have as president, think about what your life would be like with Saddam Hussein in complete control of the oil supply in that part of the world. Think about Saddam Hussein basically in control of the world economy. Before you continue defending Hussein think about what your life would be like right now if the United States hadn't come in six decades ago and rescued your whiny pacifist asses from Hitler and Mussolini.

bwaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! WE WERE THE PACIFISTS!!!!!! Who was it that was sitting arond saying "We are not going to war" Yes the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA- It took an attack from Japan for you to get off your lazy ass and come help us. The fact is Saddam Hussein will never be in charge of the worlds economy- and there is NO way he'd cut off his Number 1 revenue gatherer- and sure you rescued us from Hitler and Mussolini- but you could have ended the war FAR sooner.

Why don't you and everybody who believes like you actually go to Iraq and live under the regime you love so much. Its easy to sit back in safety and comfort, thinking that YOU'LL never get blown up- as long as it's just Americans it's ok-and run your mouth about how George Bush is a trigger happy cowboy and all the rest of the crap that a nation with no balls has to say. You said the same things about Ronald Reagan and you're sitting pretty today with no threat from the Communist Soviet Union because of Reagan and his courage and determination to rid the world of that threat. This is why you people have the reputation you do and why you deserve to live under dictatorship. We should have left Hitler in power.

Nobody is denying that Saddam is corrupt and bad on Iraq- maybe he should fall from power- but there is NO reason to bomb him and take out innocent people- Reagen LIVED with his foot in his mouth- in fact there was a thread a while ago with some of the dumb things he has said- And whats to say he made the Soviet Union collapse??? And Communism STILL isn't eradicated so shut the fuck up. Also I live under a democratic government- Although I cannot vote- As I am still a New zealand citizen- not an Itallian one- and I ALWAYS have lived under a democracy- In fact Bush is by far more corrupt than any of our Western European leaders. Bush is a fucktard- he only cares about finishing daddy's war- Who gives if the economy is going into a recession???? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by taranaki
Oh great....another right wing redneck.:bloated:

I don't wish Bill Clinton had 'bombed the crap' out of anybody.Bombing is a cowardly way to fight,that's why the U.S is so good at it.

And as for the crap about saving the world in 1945,The US let its allies die in their millions by their craven cowardice in the early years in both ww1 and ww2,and committed the most obscene of war crimes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.But I guess you are pretty proud of those.

A short and sweet summary of what I am on about:)

There are just to many left-wing dimwits roaming around these days.

Bombing is a way to kill the enemy so you do not get killed. Pretty fucking stupid not to do it that way. :rolleyes: Anyone who calls it cowardly - such as you Mr. T - are full of shit.

The UN is not necessary for the safety of all nations - they just want you to believe it is. Fuck the UN. Its a haven for fascists, communists and dictators. Dont need it. Dont want it. I'll be glad when its finally removed from our shores. The instutions that are worth a shit that has been spawned by the UN can be administered more effectively without it.

As for Sadam - fuck you and your demand for proof. Prove to me that we are attacking his country to remove the WMD. At this point we are not. So no proof has not been made public - doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It took an attack from Japan for you to get off your lazy ass and come help us. - fuck you. Typical of a US basher. First bash because of what we're doing. If we do something complain about when. After its over - complain how its done. :rolleyes:

To bad we didn't stay out of Europe so the rest of the contries would have gone down fighting like Poland or capitulated like France. He could have rolled over Russia and we would only have to deal with one Dictator instead of dozens of little socialist whiner countries. But of course when it comes to Sadam - we have to have proof that he has these weapon before taking him out. Hitler, Tojo, Musalini - those guys we should have done something about sooner. :rolleyes:

The whole "innocent civilian" line is so full of fucking bullshit it boggle the mind! I've never seen so many fucking stupid things equated to "innocent civilians". Go look at the Afgan threads to see all the time people whined and complained about the thousands of "innocent civillians" were going to die during the bombing and the starving and dozen other reasons. BULLSHIT! Didn't happen. All the reasons why they aren't "innocent" is listed in their.

Bush is doing a great job. People who can do no better then call him names are weak minded ass humpers. They always use some fucking stupid ass excuse - its about oil. Its about dadys war. Its about time you fucking grew up and stop acting as though decisions are made by twelve year olds - although many people here react that way.

Bombing is a way to kill the enemy so you do not get killed. Pretty fucking stupid not to do it that way. :rolleyes: Anyone who calls it cowardly - such as you Mr. T - are full of shit.
Oh lord :rolleyes: Bombing is a way of just dropping a powerful bomb anywhere and blow up anything, it is cowardly and it is deadly for all around the enemy. The US brags about the might of thier Navy Seals and armed forces- So why the hell don't they send them in to take out Saddam???? rather than just bombing at will.

The UN is not necessary for the safety of all nations - they just want you to believe it is. Fuck the UN. Its a haven for fascists, communists and dictators. Dont need it. Dont want it. I'll be glad when its finally removed from our shores. The instutions that are worth a shit that has been spawned by the UN can be administered more effectively without it.
Riiiigghtttt.......And if we didn't have the UN- the world would just turn into a big America- I don't want that to happen- it is also a organisation which has 99% of countries as members- so they get a good perspective on any world affair by hearing it from every spectrum.

As for Sadam - fuck you and your demand for proof. Prove to me that we are attacking his country to remove the WMD. At this point we are not. So no proof has not been made public - doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
What? If you are not attacking Iraq for WMD then what are you attacking them for????? :confused: Oi; I'm guessing- either way let the UN do thier job first :finger4:
- fuck you. Typical of a US basher. First bash because of what we're doing. If we do something complain about when. After its over - complain how its done. :rolleyes:
Ummm........I didn't understand a word of that :confused: :huh:
To bad we didn't stay out of Europe so the rest of the contries would have gone down fighting like Poland or capitulated like France. He could have rolled over Russia and we would only have to deal with one Dictator instead of dozens of little socialist whiner countries. But of course when it comes to Sadam - we have to have proof that he has these weapon before taking him out. Hitler, Tojo, Musalini - those guys we should have done something about sooner. :rolleyes:
*cough*redneck*cough* There is no way he could have rolled over Russia- the Nazis in Barbarossa were eliminated before they got to Moscow. But what did these Socialist countries ever do to you? NOTHING-And yes you do need proof he has the weapons- other wise- there is no reason to attack him. Btw- It's spelt Mussolini and Togo and the fact remains had you entered the war in 1939 or even 1940 like the rest of us- Millions of lives could have been saved.
The whole "innocent civilian" line is so full of fucking bullshit it boggle the mind! I've never seen so many fucking stupid things equated to "innocent civilians". Go look at the Afgan threads to see all the time people whined and complained about the thousands of "innocent civillians" were going to die during the bombing and the starving and dozen other reasons. BULLSHIT! Didn't happen. All the reasons why they aren't "innocent" is listed in their.
Actually back in about February it was said that about 4000 Afgan civillians were killed- More than the September 11 attacks. This is a well known piece of documentaation as well. And care to re-list why these people aren't innocent? I'll be waiting for a good laugh

[quote]Bush is doing a great job. People who can do no better then call him names are weak minded ass humpers. They always use some fucking stupid ass excuse - its about oil. Its about dadys war. Its about time you fucking grew up and stop acting as though decisions are made by twelve year olds - although many people here react that way.
I could do a far better job than Bush, in fact- My neighbours cat can do a better job than Bush. I do call Bush names- in conjunction with giving reasons why I hate the missile-raper. And I'm afraid at the end of the day.........It all comes down to the oil and daddy's war- allthough it is cliched- it is the truth.

Oh lord Bombing is a way of just dropping a powerful bomb anywhere and blow up anything, it is cowardly and it is deadly for all around the enemy. The US brags about the might of thier Navy Seals and armed forces- So why the hell don't they send them in to take out Saddam???? rather than just bombing at will.


Christ is that being stupid. Of course it a way to blow something up. The whole point is to destroy or kill something/someone without injury to your own troops. Cowardly? Sorry - totally unrelated. :rolleyes:


Riiiigghtttt.......And if we didn't have the UN- the world would just turn into a big America- I don't want that to happen- it is also a organisation which has 99% of countries as members- so they get a good perspective on any world affair by hearing it from every spectrum.


Holy hell - here we go again. Nobody said the world would turn into America. The US doesn't want the world. The UN is a waste of money and time. Their are many organizations - NATO, SEPAC, G8, EU and lots of others that dont have or need 99% of the countries and they are doing quite well for themselves. The UN is not a necessity. Without it, the world will do no worse then it is now.


What? If you are not attacking Iraq for WMD then what are you attacking them for????? Oi; I'm guessing- either way let the UN do thier job first


Nobody believes the US government when it says it has proof. But you guys sure do believe Saddam when he says they dont have anything. After the US goverment showed (whatever it was) to Turkey, Russia and others, they changed their tune. But of course its Saddam whos telling the truth. :rolleyes:

quote:
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- fuck you. Typical of a US basher. First bash because of what we're doing. If we do something complain about when. After its over - complain how its done.
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Ummm........I didn't understand a word of that


Its pretty typical of people who bash the US to complain no matter what we do. You'll use anything and everything to justify yourself.


*cough*redneck*cough* There is no way he could have rolled over Russia- the Nazis in Barbarossa were eliminated before they got to Moscow. But what did these Socialist countries ever do to you? NOTHING-And yes you do need proof he has the weapons- other wise- there is no reason to attack him. Btw- It's spelt Mussolini and Togo and the fact remains had you entered the war in 1939 or even 1940 like the rest of us- Millions of lives could have been saved.


Thats a load of horse shit. He was rolling over Russia. After he had finished off England, Stalin would not have stopped him. Stalin was running out of men and materials holding off the Nazis. Its was only a matter of time before Stalingrad fell. As for having the weapons - see an earlier comment.

For not getting into the war in 1939 - It was the LIBERALS who kept saying it wasn't our place to get involved; It wasn't our fight; They hadn't attacked us. Though we weren't officially in the war. We supplied the British with materials and some US pilots fought in the RAF.


I could do a far better job than Bush, in fact- My neighbours cat can do a better job than Bush. I do call Bush names- in conjunction with giving reasons why I hate the missile-raper. And I'm afraid at the end of the day.........It all comes down to the oil and daddy's war- allthough it is cliched- it is the truth.


You only believe you could do a better job. Delusions arent reality. Your truth is the same tiny brained drivel liberals often spew. I am glad he has a high approval rating and will win the next election. 6 more years! Excellent!!

Kind of you to refer to me as 'full of shit' Yogs,it shows just what level your arguments work on.The quickest way to raise a politician's approval level is to start a war...Margaret Thatcher demonstrated it brilliantly with her pointless,bloody,and expensive campaign against Argentina over the Falkland Islands,a godforsaken remnant of the British Empire that is of no relevance to the Crown other than for its mineral potential.Hundreds of good men were killed,and thousands more were injured as two right-wing governments postured against each other to deflect attention from their poor performance at home.

Twenty years on the same thing is happpening again,except this time,the casualties could run to millions.I don't think Bush is fit to run a lemonade stand,and I for one don't want Bush to start World War Three simply to get himself re-elected.

Oh...one more thing..

People who can do no better then call him names are weak minded ass humpers.
Can anybody spot the irony in this statement?:p :p :p :p

That’s fine. I deserved that thrown back at me ;) However that doesn't mean that you still aren't full of shit. I can and have defended my position.

Oh great....another right wing redneck.

I don't wish Bill Clinton had 'bombed the crap' out of anybody.Bombing is a cowardly way to fight, that's why the U.S is so good at it.

And as for the crap about saving the world in 1945,The US let its allies die in their millions by their craven cowardice in the early years in both ww1 and ww2,and committed the most obscene of war crimes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.But I guess you are pretty proud of those.

Yeah - thats where the shit really gets thick. Bombing is cowardly. I suppose you suggest rolled up newspapers :rolleyes: Calling the US cowardly. No name calling there :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I'd like you to explain to my dad why his older brothers died in WWII - the cowards :finger4:

Of course its ok to have to send possibly a million US soldiers to their death and absolutely more Japanese "innocent civilians" as you like to call them by having to invade the country in WWII instead of using the A-bomb. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Its one thing to have compassion for people. Cant say that I want to see people killed who don’t have to die, but I see it both ways. I'd like to see how you'd walk up to a mother of a US soldier and say. "I'm sorry but your son had to die because we were afraid to kill the enemy with the weapons we have." If it were me I'd have done the same thing. And - check your history. The holocaust was much more horrendous then the bombs. The Japanese subjugation and murder of over 2 million Chinese was much worse. And there are many other examples but it just shows that your single-mindedness of berating the US has about become the equivalent of a reigning lunatic. Hence – the “full of shit” statement.

Originally posted by YogsVR4
That’s fine. I deserved that thrown back at me ;) However that doesn't mean that you still aren't full of shit. I can and have defended my position.



Yeah - thats where the shit really gets thick. Bombing is cowardly. I suppose you suggest rolled up newspapers :rolleyes: Calling the US cowardly. No name calling there :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I'd like you to explain to my dad why his older brothers died in WWII - the cowards :finger4:

Of course its ok to have to send possibly a million US soldiers to their death and absolutely more Japanese "innocent civilians" as you like to call them by having to invade the country in WWII instead of using the A-bomb. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Its one thing to have compassion for people. Cant say that I want to see people killed who don’t have to die, but I see it both ways. I'd like to see how you'd walk up to a mother of a US soldier and say. "I'm sorry but your son had to die because we were afraid to kill the enemy with the weapons we have." If it were me I'd have done the same thing. And - check your history. The holocaust was much more horrendous then the bombs. The Japanese subjugation and murder of over 2 million Chinese was much worse. And there are many other examples but it just shows that your single-mindedness of berating the US has about become the equivalent of a reigning lunatic. Hence – the “full of shit” statement.

Yes,the Holocaust was far worse than the bombing of Japan.But America did damn-all to stop it before Pearl Harbor.And Isympathise that your father lost family in WW2,my family was decimated by the German bombings of London's East End.If only our allies had come into the war sooner,things might have been different.

as for your comment, I'd like to see how you'd walk up to a mother of a US soldier and say. "I'm sorry but your son had to die because we were afraid to kill the enemy with the weapons we have.",you've missed the point again.I'd hate to have to walk up to a mother of any soldier and have to tell her that he died because starting a war in the Middle East was a good way to boost the re-election chances of a second-rate President.

The "full-of shit" statement just endears you to me Yogs.It's nice to see people thowing insults,it's a standard ploy used by many a politician who is losing an argument and has no facts to fall back on.

Although having to shoot and move do to the war on terrorism its nice to see someone stepping up to the plate. Even if they don't always seem to bo 100% there. I cant stand the people over here drive all lanes occupied with cars going the same speed. Kinda like Clinton and his admin. Pick a lane but go some where with it!!! At least Bush is doing that.

TacoRice sux
SKYLINES RULE!!

Originally posted by taranaki


Yes,the Holocaust was far worse than the bombing of Japan.But America did damn-all to stop it before Pearl Harbor.And Isympathise that your father lost family in WW2,my family was decimated by the German bombings of London's East End.If only our allies had come into the war sooner,things might have been different.

as for your comment, I'd like to see how you'd walk up to a mother of a US soldier and say. "I'm sorry but your son had to die because we were afraid to kill the enemy with the weapons we have.",you've missed the point again.I'd hate to have to walk up to a mother of any soldier and have to tell her that he died because starting a war in the Middle East was a good way to boost the re-election chances of a second-rate President.

The "full-of shit" statement just endears you to me Yogs.It's nice to see people thowing insults,it's a standard ploy used by many a politician who is losing an argument and has no facts to fall back on.

I call shit when I see it and your comments in this thread are full of it. Its odd how I am stating facts while you're only spouting conjecture and false history (worst atrocities in WWII. Letting millions die in Europe, only for re-election, then say its only about oil.) So, please stop with the "winning of the arguement" BS. Your position is not even tenuous. Its just pure shit.

Let me review just a few of the moments of shit.

You said the US" committed the most obscene of war crimes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.But I guess you are pretty proud of those" for dropping the bombs on Japan. Right there – FULL OF SHIT.

In “The US let its allies die in their millions by their craven cowardice in the early years in both ww1 and ww2” case you missed it the first time -the US didn't go to our allies aid because of a bunch of short sighted people here kept saying the same things you are about Iraq. In any case we were supporting as best we could till the peace nics here understood that we needed to send troops. (pilots and materials were being supplied already) More evidence of flowing shit.

I then comment on how you tell a mother why her son was lost. You couldn't answer that. You just threw that back saying the war is for oil or re-election. Again – more shit. Then you say we didn't get into the war soon enough in Europe and in the next breath you say we shouldn't get involved in Iraq. That shits just getting deeper.

I know you hate our president. Your purgative. That doesn't mean I can't point out how full of shit those statements are, regardless of how much it endears me to you.

Merry Christmas Yogs.Your arguments are no better and no worse than mine.You are being just as selective in choosing which arguments of mine to answer,andfrankly,your constant scatalogical references only serve to highligh the folly and weakness of your position.Go enlist if it means that much to you.Piss off to Iraq andcommit some war crimes for good ol'George.The world will never thank you for it.History is littered with the corpses of those who blindly follow their flag.

The only ray of hope in this whole miserable charade is that one former totalitarian dictatorship is refusing to support the creation of another.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,769851,00.html

Sorry Mr. T. They are not the same. I am stating facts while you are not even doing congecture. You are making outrightly false statements. I cant help it if facts scare you and you are unwilling to actually open your eyes.

Originally posted by YogsVR4
Sorry Mr. T. They are not the same. I am stating facts while you are not even doing congecture. You are making outrightly false statements. I cant help it if facts scare you and you are unwilling to actually open your eyes.

Clearly you are deluded Yogs.America has no moral authority to interfere in the Middle East.Only a complete fuckwit would believe that it falls under the definition of self defence.I'm tired of the sanctimonious claptrap coming from the White House,it's complete bullshit and only an utter fool would fall for it.

I'm disappointed that you repeatedly assert your opinions as facts,and I'm saddened that this thread stopped being a reasoned debate a long way back.The facts,as you say, do scare me.George Bush is a more of a danger to world peace than Saddam Hussein will ever be.Perhaps one day you might care to think it out for yourself,if you are capable.
Travel,they say,broadens the mind.I'd suggest you start collecting some air points as soon as possible.

Originally posted by taranaki


Clearly you are deluded Yogs.America has no moral authority to interfere in the Middle East.Only a complete fuckwit would believe that it falls under the definition of self defence.I'm tired of the sanctimonious claptrap coming from the White House,it's complete bullshit and only an utter fool would fall for it.

I'm disappointed that you repeatedly assert your opinions as facts,and I'm saddened that this thread stopped being a reasoned debate a long way back.The facts,as you say, do scare me.George Bush is a more of a danger to world peace than Saddam Hussein will ever be.Perhaps one day you might care to think it out for yourself,if you are capable.
Travel,they say,broadens the mind.I'd suggest you start collecting some air points as soon as possible.

Incorrect once again Mr. T. Nobody claimed "moral authority" I know how you feel about claptrap. Its what you've been spewing for quite some time. It is amazing how close minded you've shown yourself to be. Also, let me know when you've traveled as extensively as my wife and I so you can tell me how worldly you are :rolleyes:

Originally posted by YogsVR4


Incorrect once again Mr. T. Nobody claimed "moral authority" I know how you feel about claptrap. Its what you've been spewing for quite some time. It is amazing how close minded you've shown yourself to be. Also, let me know when you've traveled as extensively as my wife and I so you can tell me how worldly you are :rolleyes:

LOL...Your wife has travelled?That's your lamest argument yet.

I'm quitting while I am way ahead,it's pointless arguing with you if you cant put a coherent line of thought together.The U.S. has no legitimate business in the middle east.Invasion and defence are two completely different concepts,regardless of how the President's advisers and p.r. weasels try to paint it.

It amazes me Yogs......how you are so narrow minded............All you ever post is dumbased BS by the worlds most moronic leader (Bush in case you are still wondering- You probably are) it is nothing but white house propoganda. Has Bush ever let Saddam give his version of the events??? Not to my knowlege- the facts are pure and simple....If Saddam was to attack with any WMD he would have done it back in 1997 or during the Gulf War- when he was by all means provoked- and if he has these WMD's- then what makes you think he wouldn't use them if the heat was turned up on him ie. WAR.........

The UN is the moderator of the peace- the US is not- if they were then the world would be a terrible place a mini-USA- think Australia and you are almost there. George Bush does NOT run this weapons inspections operation. Simple as that


What does travel have to do with your pathetic Iraq debates????

Mr T and his clone Jimmy are a few cans shy of a six pack. You bring up do some traveling and I mention that my wife and I have done quite a bit. Of course you cant read a whole sentence and Jimmy cant read a whole post.

T its ok to think your ahead. Your minds wandering around in la-la land anyway. Lowlights of your "arguements" are; the US allowing millions to die before joining WWII, the claim of the US perpetrating the most horendous act of WWII, not to mention calling us cowards. I could go on, but that pretty much illistrates some deluded thinking. The US has business in the Middle East. You'd be blind not to see it. But, considering how you hate to see one country involved in the affairs of others, I am looking forward to your thread complaining about the French in the Ivory Coast. :rolleyes:

Jimmy - the UN is a waste of time and money. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by YogsVR4

Thats a load of horse shit. He was rolling over Russia. After he had finished off England, Stalin would not have stopped him. Stalin was running out of men and materials holding off the Nazis. Its was only a matter of time before Stalingrad fell.

If this is something you have figured out yourself, ok.
If your parents told you this, ok.
But if a teacher told you this, or you read it in a book, all I can say is WTF?!

Originally posted by Deakins


If this is something you have figured out yourself, ok.
If your parents told you this, ok.
But if a teacher told you this, or you read it in a book, all I can say is WTF?!

Don't worry too much about Yogs.He has a slender grip on history....and international law....and how to read a poll...and the difference between documented facts and ignorant redneck bigotry......:bloated:

Originally posted by YogsVR4
Mr T and his clone Jimmy are a few cans shy of a six pack. You bring up do some traveling and I mention that my wife and I have done quite a bit. Of course you cant read a whole sentence and Jimmy cant read a whole post.



Jimmy - the UN is a waste of time and money. :rolleyes:
Care to expand on that last sentence?



How am I T-mans clone? We were bought up in a similar education system (There was little difference between the British and NZ edumacation system)- I have had anti-Bush sentiments similar to those I have displayed before I even knew Mr T.

So I'm guessing you have travelled to Iraq- Or North Korea- Or Palestine- Or Iran:rolleyes:

Sorry to jump in on the tail end of this discussion, but I see Yogs making some valid points and rather convincing arguments, all of which are met with idiotic responses like
Don't worry too much about Yogs.He has a slender grip on history....and international law....and how to read a poll...and the difference between documented facts and ignorant redneck bigotry......
How about attempting to parry his remarks with other equally convincing and factually sound arguments?Or perhaps you don't waste your time arguing with ignorant rednecks? Then again since I'm an American I'm probably devoid of all intelligence as well. I'll be back later when I have some time to type up a slightly more informative post. :)

Yay.Another dipstick.Try reading the thread before you start chucking nonsensical claptrap around.

Bottom line.Bush and his cronies have absolutely no business to be attacking the Middle East and despite ample opportunity Yogs has not come up with a single reason why I should change my position.We've both put up the facts as we see them,and had a lengthy exchange of opinions,and as far as I see,he's still barking up the wrong tree.What on earth makes you think that your opinion is going to change anything?

Yay.Another dipstick.Try reading the thread before you start chucking nonsensical claptrap around.

Is everyone in NZ this rude? All I did was encourage you to act in a more mature and intelligent manner, I didn't say he was right and you were wrong. Perhaps you should have read my post before insulting me. I haven't told you anything about me other than the fact that I live in America and that I think the majority of your responses have been rather curt. I will say some of Yogs's posts were a bit crude, but you started this personal insult war. I suppose I'll just exit this thread since I can see I'm trying to reason with an unreasonable person.

If I could vote 1 million times no i would. Bush is a f*****g a-hole. he is a warlord trying to be mom of the world. he tries to help other people, but instead gets us i more trouble. he has 2 more years, I only prey and hope we don't die because of him. I think he should go back to Texas and be president of his cows. I can't think of a thing good he has done for america in 2 years. He has turned friends into enemies, he doesn't care about the enviroment, he is causing a lot of wars, he's crashing the stock market, he is taking insurane away,etc.,etc. He doesn't do a thing, he has his dogs doing it for him. Stupid brother in Florida is why he is president today anyways. I think the whole Bush family is messed up.
HERE BUSH:
:flipa: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :finger4:

THIS IS WHAT BUSH IS:
:smoker2: :bonghitte :cry: :evillaugh :silly: :xelicon: :ylsuper :monkeypis :argue: :help: :bandit:

THIS IS WHAT BUSH TRYS TO DO:
:rocket: :eshooter: :aug2: :greenchai :badass: :angel: :biggrin2: :flamer: :wave:

Originally posted by corvettezman
If I could vote 1 million times no i would. Bush is a f*****g a-hole. he is a warlord trying to be mom of the world. he tries to help other people, but instead gets us i more trouble. he has 2 more years, I only prey and hope we don't die because of him. I think he should go back to Texas and be president of his cows. I can't think of a thing good he has done for america in 2 years. He has turned friends into enemies, he doesn't care about the enviroment, he is causing a lot of wars, he's crashing the stock market, he is taking insurane away,etc.,etc. He doesn't do a thing, he has his dogs doing it for him. Stupid brother in Florida is why he is president today anyways. I think the whole Bush family is messed up.
HERE BUSH:
:flipa: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :finger: :flipa: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :finger4:

THIS IS WHAT BUSH IS:
:smoker2: :bonghitte :cry: :evillaugh :silly: :xelicon: :ylsuper :monkeypis :argue: :help: :bandit:




THIS IS WHAT BUSH TRYS TO DO:
:rocket: :eshooter: :aug2: :greenchai :badass: :angel: :biggrin2: :flamer: :wave:

Normally I would well at you for using that many simleys- but it is your first day- adn I agree with everything you said so I won't yell at you.


But please don't use that many smilies next time:)

I usually don't use a lot of smilies, sometimes none at all. Bu I had to get my opinion expressed.

Originally posted by corvettezman
I usually don't use a lot of smilies, sometimes none at all. Bu I had to get my opinion expressed.


Smilies are like swearing- they do bugger all when it comes t getting a point accross- I understood where you were coming from even before I got to the smileys