Disappointed

I just dropped in the grouse a little. :) I'm also a little interested in seeing whether the moderators will allow a post that is not all ga-ga about the new car.

I drove a 1990 model Nissan 240SX from 1990 until recently. It was a great handling and a great looking car. It didn't have as much power as I have come to want, but I loved it.

I am really disappointed in the new 350Z. Why didn't they make it faster? Why does it look like just about every other new sporty car these days? (That is to say, why is it butt ughly?) The 300ZX was beautiful. So were the earlier 240SX's, before they turned boxy.

When I started looking for a replacement for the 240SX, my first inclination was to get a used 300ZX. But I wound up buying a new 2002 Camaro Z28 convertible - the last of the breed, as you probably know. I fell in love with the power! I had to spend about $1500 more on after-market stiffening and suspension parts to make it handle suitably, but even with those extra expenses, the convertible cost me less than a base model hardtop 350Z will cost. The car goes zoom, and it does it without a blower. Stock zero to 60 in a bit over 5 seconds. I put a 2800 stall torque converter on it and did some minor tweaking, and now my 0-60 is under 5 seconds. I love it! I guess I'm in the minority, because GM is dumping it. GM is also planning to make the Corvette butt ughly like all the others. I've seen pictures. GM Australia is going to make a left-side drive Holden and sell it in the US as a Pontiac GTO. Is nothing sacred? Grouse. Gripe. Bitch.

Well, I got my Z, and just in time. It's not the kind of Z that I expected to get, but it should do me for the next ten years or so.

No, I agree. Everything I've read seems to suggest that it's very much a 'good effort', but not a home run. You could buy a lot of other new cars that are either much cheaper and just as good, or WAY faster for about the same price (as a track model).

And cars don't slow down as quickly as they depreciate. Point? You could buy something used for a boatload less cash that will crush a 350Z. ANY used Camaro or Mustang Cobra would make a 350Z's life pretty miserable. Heck, even some of them ratty 5.0s would do the trick...

I too am disappointed.

I don't see normal mustangs and camaros crushing the 350Z. Even the faster Camaro the Camaro SS is 0-60 in 5.5 the 350Z is 5.4
Ill give it to a Mustang SVT thats fast 0-60 in 4.9 , but its American made car foreing cars are simply better. Well thats my opinion.

Hahah...OK, so at the end of the dragstrip you'll pull up next to the Camaro or Mustang that just blew your doors off and brag about having superior build quality, right? :D Hey if that's what you want... Although last I heard, fit and finish doesn't win races!

Road and Track November 2001 issue.
Mustang GT 0-60 6.1
Same issue Camaro Z28 0-60 5.5
I do not see that beating a 350z in a drag
Pluse you have the better quality car.

Zane, its not 0-60 that wins a drag. The American V8's on the top are gonna pass the Z and leave it in the dust. As time goes on they will refine the Z and it will get faster, but these first ones are not going to be F body and Stang killers...its common sense dude. They really do not sell any Japanese import in the US that can off the floor own the F bodies or Mustangs. Sure with mods they can be "hella" fast, and many of them are true threats and can win stop light to stop light due to all the factors involved, but still. I can not tell you how many stock NSX's I have seen get beat by F bodies and Cobra's, and most of the NSX guys look like fools taking on Z06's and GTS's. Is the NSX junk, hell not...its a coner cutting turn taking machine. I say do not over rate the Z, but do not take it for granted either. I think its a very cool car and a nameplate that deserved to come back.

Well most people around here dont go to drag strips, its like all street racing and you said yourself it will win there and i no that.

And as for the hole nsx thing it isn't as fast as a viper nutting really is.

But it is closer to a z06 and cobra and will last alot longer than both those cars and handles very well. But so does the z06.

Originally posted by zane11
But it is closer to a z06 and cobra and will last alot longer than both those cars and handles very well. But so does the z06.

Yeah, we all know how un-reliable the Chevy 350 is...

:rolleyes:

And as for handling, the Z06 bitch-slaps the NSX all over the place. In every category: lateral grip, acceleration, braking, 0-60, quarte mile, road course... And even price.

But I'll still give you import guys the 'specific output' arguement. :D

I said they "can" win, not that they will. They wont on average.

Zane, Im sorry to see that you are just doing the "my pet car is better than anythig else ever" deal. Stoplight to stoplight a stock SS is gonna kick a Z all over the place most of the time. Its sad you blind yourself to C&D stats, a mag known for crappy track and test times. Motor Trend and all of the others are very suspect also. Even the "halo" Skylines would have trouble with the SS and Ram Air, put a Turbo or SC on a Stang of F body and its over. And I freaking love Skylines. The old gen Z's with TT's are run down by SS's. Hell, I have a Bullitt and love it, and you do not see me going around saying it can kill everything. The Z is gonna kick as a car overall, but this is getting silly now.

Yeh i no and id still pick the nsx thats how good of a car that is.

At the risk of getting the NSX crowd angry (and no, I do not hate them), most people view it as the biggest waste of money out of all super cars due to the cost (in the USA) and perfomance. The demand for them in the US is not overwhelming...notice how many 911 Turbos you see...I do not think cost is the issue. The NSX is cool, and it has a good fan base and most owners are cool guys...very few of them will tell you its a great performer stock. Modded they can up the ante, but they as a group have complained for years about the performance. Admit you are just an import only fan please...cause I can grab a GTS real quick and show you how fast a NSX is. Bang for the buck...GTS or NSX...kind of easy to answer.

Oh i am an import guy cause there better quality and longer lasting but i think id take a viper gts over about any car produced i luv that car.

I'll take raw HP V8 over quick revving 4cyl any day of the week. Something about the sound of it...

Originally posted by jive
Blah Blah Blah

If you want raw power then the 350z is not your car. The car was not built to win drag races. Notice the trim levels "touring" and "track", there is no "drag strip". The 350z was designed to be an all around sports car for a low price and that is what it is.

Originally posted by jive
Why didn't they make it faster?

Because not everybody only cares about straightline speed. They obvioulsy could have made it faster but then either.

A Price goes up
B Other areas suffer (brakes, suspension, build quality, reliability, etc)

Cars are not just 1/4 mile times.

Originally posted by Gravitom

They obvioulsy could have made it faster but then either.

A Price goes up
B Other areas suffer (brakes, suspension, build quality, reliability, etc)


I think you need to read the thread about other cars to consider. The 350 is not a cheap car, and it's not an amazing value. Heck, it's not even a GOOD value.

Good point Gravitom.

SpyVO
If you're comparing hp per $, why pay 26K+ for new a Z28(SS), TransAm, or Cobra, when you can build a 450+ hp drag car for under 15K, or a crotch rocket for less then 10K. There are other reasons why people buy Camaro, Mustang, and 350Z. That's why GM release the Z28 and the TransAm, which is basically the same car but different trim.

I will be trading in my Mustang for the 350Z, and will probably get picked on by faster cars like the Z28, TransAm, and Cobras. That's ok, because my Ducati got some new rubber to burn.

No, no, no, it wasn't a hp/$ comparison, really. It's more about what you get for your money in general. What I was saying is that for what it is and what it can do, I personally think that a Mustang GT is a better value. $21,500 for a pretty much loaded 5 speed GT and $26,809 for a base 350Z, and when you compare the numbers, the 350Z is NOT "$5,000 better", if I may put it that way. I know you could build a faster race car for less, but the comparison I was making was new cars that you can buy today that have similar purposes and capabilities (STOCK), with a warranty. I'm trying my best to make an honest apples-to-apples comparison. When comparing the 350Z to other cars in that way, I fail to see why it's being called a great value. It is a cool car, of course, and it has the newness thing going for it. And we will eventually see how the market treats it. And we all must admit that as car enthusiasts, it's really a godsend in a way since the f-bodies got the axe. There's a new player in town, and that helps the hobby thrive as a whole. This is good! Otherwise Ford could say, "Why bring out the guns when there's no battle?"

As for the hypothetical motocycle theory: well as long as we're playing could's and would's, I'd dump that 15k you mentioned into a GMC Syclone or a Buick GN, and if I COULDN'T beat you, I WOULD at least keep up with you. A longshot, YES, but it HAS happened, right?

SpyVO (Special Vehicle Operations)?

I agree. For the perfromance, Mustangs, Z28 are better bang for the buck, but not better value. Build quality, relaibility, depreciation, and supply/demand determines the value of the car.
I love my Mustang, but at 86k miles, it's beginning to fall apart. My prior vehicle (Nissan Truck) runs great into 120K+ miles. From my experience and what I've read, the 350Z is a better build car then my Ford. So I think the 350Z is well worth the money for the performance and quality. The Altima and the Corola is what I consider a great value.

I wasn't making any performance comparison between a car and a motorcycle. Just that if V8 picks on V6, i'll still have my 996.
And yes, any car that can do under 10 sec in 1/4 mile can beat most street bikes, but that would usually be define as drag cars.

I dunno... I have a hard time buying into the whole build quality thing. I think it's kinda like splitting hairs out of desperation. I think how a car lasts depends entirely on it's owner. I own 2 Mustangs right now. One is an 84 which has 91k. The other is an 86 with 186k. According to your reasoning, the 84 should be in MUCH better condition, right? And they should BOTH be falling apart, too!

I work at a large car auction, and I see all kinds of cars, hundreds of different ones every week. I see domestic cars that are beat, and foreign cars that are worse, and vice versa. I've seen both of them that are still pristine with very high mileage: interiors that last well, the paint stays shiny, they still function properly in every way... Despite what you may want to believe, domestic cars do not begin to fall apart as soon as they leave the factory. And foreign cars are really no better than domestic cars.

For years I've disliked foreign cars mostly because of the arrogance of their owners toward domestics. It wasn't until I really got into cars that I started to be more objective, and saw that imports actually are just as good as domestics. In the end, I came to my own decision that it's all about what you want, because better than 9 times out of 10, whatever you're driving is GOING TO get you there. So does it matter where it was made? Personally, I can't see how it could or would.

And you also can't say that the Z will have better build quality than your Mustang based on something you've read because there are NO 350Zs with 86k miles on them!!

If you can be objective, I think you'll find that it really is all about what you want.

What's with you guys? This isn't a pissing contest against cars.
There's a car available to you now that's sophisticated, fast, and at a reasonable price. Ala, S2000, Boxter.
I don't care if some American cars are faster, so what? They are still junk!

Originally posted by SpyVO
Despite what you may want to believe, domestic cars do not begin to fall apart as soon as they leave the factory. And foreign cars are really no better than domestic cars.


Think what you want bud, but just because your biased towards mustangs doesnt make you an expert. There are a ton of parts in your ford cars made all over the world that are swaps with import cars (Mazda). No matter how you slice it, the 350Z slapped the GT Stang's 0-60 time in Motor Trend and Car and Driver. Just because you can beat those times on your 1/4 mile track doesnt mean that everyone can furthermore, it doesnt mean that a good driver couldnt get the 1/4 time for the Z well under 14. HP to HP the Z flat out beats the mustang, get out of your fantasy world. The 350Z was not designed to be an american supercar buster. It cant beat a viper, vette or cobra, there is no possible way it could with some fantastic hookups. As far as the GT, you know my thoughts. The Z28 would be a close race, I would give the Z28 a nod for hp and would more times than not with evenly matched drivers beat the Z. Most drivers arent experts and I would say that both cars are really evenly matched. Understand that it (the Z) was designed to take market share away from the porsche boxster and 911 (Forbes) not amarican cars. As I have mentioned before, does this show you anything? Why would Nissan pit the 350 up against a porsche? 2 reasons: 1) besides the vette and viper, american auto makers dont have a 2 seater coupe and you cannot expect a Z to compete with a Viper or Vette 2) Porsche is recognized for making a high performance luxurios sports car. (NewsWeek) American autos arent recognized for their luxury to the average buyer.

i wanna chime in here!1 :)
i have a S2000 by the way...so i'm on the far end of this conversation away from the LS1 camaro, mustang, and even the Z.

I love my car, but am not a retard. I know for a fact that if i wanted to build a serious road course car or drag car for cheap a mustang is the way to go. As a drag car it is just obvious

As a road course car it isn't so obvious, but that is just because there is just a lack of knowledge out there about what makes a car fast on a road course. With a full griggs suspension some engine modifications a 5.0 mustang can be made to kick some serious ass on even the twistiest courses for cheap. It may not have the "feel" of a NSX, but it will have the feeling of lapping them. That is not to say a NSX can't be made very fast..it just costs a whole lot more.

But, I didn't buy my S2000 as a race car. I bought it because for the money (stock for stock) it had a lot of things I wanted. It is fairly quick, great handling (stock it handles much better then a stock mustang or F-body), look nice, convertible, no cowl shake, no noticeable body roll, and holds it's own on the track for a stock car. The price was right too...that is why i didn't get the Z06.

It isn't really the same thing to argue about why a modified fox body or F-body is a better deal then a new Z. The Z is a much nicer car in many ways, then either of those cars, but it isn't as fast..oh well!! :D

Originally posted by Z06Lover
The Z is a much nicer car in many ways, then either of those cars, but it isn't as fast..oh well!! :D

Where is your proof that it's not a s fast? Is this your opinion? do you have slips or know of someone who does on a Z? Bottom line, 2 car mags rated the GT stang at 6.0, thats about 100 runs averaged in with a driver who knows how to drive better than the average person. Motor trend rated the Z28 at 5.5 and C&D rated it at 5.2. That averages at 5.35. The Z is looking at 5.4 in Car and Driver, I know of no other resource to quote the 0-60 times on the Z. I can quote you tyimes on the Z28 and GT stang from Old Dominion Speedway in Manassas VA from everyday drivers like most of us posting slips a few tenths of a second slower than that in the mags. Vettes, cobras, SS, etc have muscle to blow a Z out of the water. A stock Z for the money is a good buy, not to say its better than then a stock Z28 or GT its a good buy in its own world. On that note, you can get Boxster, 911 etc interior in a $30000 Z car. You cant get that kind of refinement in any Z28 or GT stang. A good friend of mine had a 96 Z28. It was a powerful car, good muscle for the money but inside it was nothing to be desired. On that note, for style and looks...would you rather drive through South Beach Miami in a stock Z28 or GT stang or new Z car? I would wager that the guy in the Z would get many more looks, and could get the possible number for latenite nanny!!!hahah Hey, everybody put your votes in for that.

1 for the Z.

HHH

Originally posted by malibubong


Where is your proof that it's not a s fast? Is this your opinion? do you have slips or know of someone who does on a Z? Bottom line, 2 car mags rated the GT stang at 6.0, thats about 100 runs averaged in with a driver who knows how to drive better than the average person. Motor trend rated the Z28 at 5.5 and C&D rated it at 5.2. That averages at 5.35. The Z is looking at 5.4 in Car and Driver, I know of no other resource to quote the 0-60 times on the Z. I can quote you tyimes on the Z28 and GT stang from Old Dominion Speedway in Manassas VA from everyday drivers like most of us posting slips a few tenths of a second slower than that in the mags. Vettes, cobras, SS, etc have muscle to blow a Z out of the water. A stock Z for the money is a good buy, not to say its better than then a stock Z28 or GT its a good buy in its own world. On that note, you can get Boxster, 911 etc interior in a $30000 Z car. You cant get that kind of refinement in any Z28 or GT stang. A good friend of mine had a 96 Z28. It was a powerful car, good muscle for the money but inside it was nothing to be desired. On that note, for style and looks...would you rather drive through South Beach Miami in a stock Z28 or GT stang or new Z car? I would wager that the guy in the Z would get many more looks, and could get the possible number for latenite nanny!!!hahah Hey, everybody put your votes in for that.

1 for the Z.

HHH

did you even read my post? No, you took one quote and then took it completely out of context. I was talking about if you wanted to make a race car it is much cheaper and easier to use a F-body or Fox body mustang. No where did I ever say a stock Z can't run with a stock 4.6 liter mustang GT. I actually never even mentioned that car. Thanks for all the wonderful magazine specs..gotta love those! :rolleyes:

The thread here was mostly about easy it was to modify the mustang or F-body to make it faster and how that was a reason to buy it over the Z. I was saying that all of that was true, but people buy cars for different reasons. Then I proceeded to give why I bought my S2000 as an example. Please read posts and understand them before you post one gigantic paragraph of gibberish.

Just so you know...it is not going to torch the 2002 mustang GT in the 1/4 mile. get your head out of stupid magazines and actually watch people race sometime...or even better..do it yourself. The mustang GT has a solid axle and a fairly soft suspension with a good amount of travel. This allows it too hook up very well. I have personally seen a GT run a 13.66 and have seen slips on the internet. If you go to corral.net someone can show you one. People may be able to extract more from the Z...we don't know yet, but it won't be much more if any.

Trap speed is much more consistent. The GT is running around 99-102 mph which is close to what magazines are getting for the Z. Expect them to be very close in performance. As far as handling the fully independent multi-link suspension of the Z gives it and advantage over the GT, but it is about as heavy and is still somewhat nose heavy. It doesn't have a 50/50 weight distribution like my S2000, Z06, or the pre -2001 M3. It should be a nice handling car, but it seems like it understeers too much. I can let you know when i drive one.

Sorry to harsh on you, but i get tired of people not reading what is posted and then taking it out of context.

Originally posted by Z06Lover

Trap speed is much more consistent. The GT is running around 99-102 mph which is close to what magazines are getting for the Z. Expect them to be very close in performance. As far as handling the fully independent multi-link suspension of the Z gives it and advantage over the GT, but it is about as heavy and is still somewhat nose heavy. It doesn't have a 50/50 weight distribution like my S2000, Z06, or the pre -2001 M3. It should be a nice handling car, but it seems like it understeers too much. I can let you know when i drive one.

Sorry to harsh on you, but i get tired of people not reading what is posted and then taking it out of context.

Yeah, I guess Nismo is just some crack company that makes bass akwards high performance parts for cars. How can you make these assupmtions when the car hasnt even been out to the general public yet? We know what the american muscle cars can and cant do. We have some specs on the Z. This is information that can be found readily by everyone. I am telling you and everyone else on this forum that if you want to say a GT mustang on average is going to run those 13.66 in 1/4 consistently then your in your fantasy worlds again.

REad what you put, you said that the Z wasnt as fast as the other 2 aforementioned cars. If you said that those cars were modified I would understand but its not what you said. Dont get mad at people for ragging on you when what you say is incorrect or not what you really mean. Get your story straight.

You throw the Z06 and other cars in the picture too. Why? That Z06 stock will spank every car mentioned no questions asked. The M3 and S2000 arent very different from the Z car. I would venture to say that the Z has an edge on both. I am not biased either. I like Honda and BMW, but you cant let numbers slide when facts are facts.

The only reason that most of these cars are evenly matched is because of driver error, and I know you would agree with me on that. Not everyone is Michael Andretti, they would like to think so but its just not true. I will be the first to admit that the Z cant beat everything, but credit should be given where credit is due.

I trust Motor Trends time a bit more than C&D and someone said in another thread they hit 13.9.

That has the stang and the Bullitt, although (and I am sure many of you are gonna disagree with me) I bet the average driver will turn better times with the Bullitt over the Z in the 1/4, maybe also in the GT but its not looking like it. Sounds like its gonna be real close with a Z28 or TA...I still give them a nod but it will be interesting to say the least. I bet they really had to run the crap out of the Z to hit the 13.9, but if they did (and I doubt the numbers were made up) that is damn sweet and very impresive.

The SS, Ram Air, Mach 1, and the Cobra don't have to worry...yet.

Combine this with the fact that it really is a track type of car and you have a really great auto for the money. It is more of a threat than I thought it would be, but I still wanna see one for myself.

I would like to see the MT article the guy quoted...what modle it was etc.

I imagine most Z's in the US will be automatics and more on the lux side of things, making them fair game for a GT...but a track or stick one is gonna give stang fans hell.

I think it is great...I hope it means that the American cars will bump up the HP in a game of catch up. In an all out HP war the American cars would be able to raise the stakes and probably (OPINION) win and I want to see that...but I also want to see handling increased. I don't think will ever see a future GT that can run rings around the Z on the track, but I would like an even better match. If you bump the HP on the GT it would be really close with good straights that it could use them on.

I still can't get into a BMW, they just cost too much IMO, and I just do not like them but that is subjective. I kinda like the look of the M3, but when I priced one it was 56,000...yikes.

The S2000 to me is a neat car. I like it better than any of the other little roadster sports around right now. I never have like the Toyota based on looks and the Mazda's are neat, but not the car for me. On imports I tend to favor the Supra, WRX, soon to hit EVO, and the "I wish we had them" Skylines.

Got the performance times right here.

Yeah, I guess Nismo is just some crack company that makes bass akwards high performance parts for cars. How can you make these assupmtions when the car hasnt even been out to the general public yet? We know what the american muscle cars can and cant do. We have some specs on the Z. This is information that can be found readily by everyone. I am telling you and everyone else on this forum that if you want to say a GT mustang on average is going to run those 13.66 in 1/4 consistently then your in your fantasy worlds again.


where did i say it was avg for a GT mustang to run 13.66? again try actually reading my posts...


REad what you put, you said that the Z wasnt as fast as the other 2 aforementioned cars. If you said that those cars were modified I would understand but its not what you said. Dont get mad at people for ragging on you when what you say is incorrect or not what you really mean. Get your story straight.


i was talking about modified cars the entire time. it is much cheaper and easier to modify a 5.0 mustang then a Z. I am looking at a 10 sec 5.0 mustang right now for $8500..what 1/4 of the Z are you gonna get for that money?!?! :rolleyes:

As far as race cars go...you can get a mustang 5.0 for about $3-$6k depending on condition. i know for a fact i can make that car faster in any way then a new Z for the same money. Unless you start talking about money in the $100k range. I have a free $20k to start with. You are not going to over come that for a long time...get a grip.

I am really sorry i didn't put modified key word in the last sentance of my first post. I figured if you could read the whole post it was obvious what i was talking about...i guess it was not obvious to you..


You throw the Z06 and other cars in the picture too. Why? That Z06 stock will spank every car mentioned no questions asked. The M3 and S2000 arent very different from the Z car. I would venture to say that the Z has an edge on both. I am not biased either. I like Honda and BMW, but you cant let numbers slide when facts are facts.


again...seriously can you read an comprehend??
i said the Z06, the S2000, and the older pre 2001 M3 all have 50-50 weight distribution..no where did i say who was faster then who... shit am i the only one taking crazy pills here???? :eek:

here is my quote from my last post:

It (the 350Z in this context) doesn't have a 50/50 weight distribution like my S2000, Z06, or the pre -2001 M3. It should be a nice handling car, but it seems like it understeers too much. I can let you know when i drive one.

as you can see i was only saying that it didnt have a 50/50 weight distribution like those three cars. I didn't say who had higher performance anywhere...this is what i mean when i say READ MY POSTS!!

just for the record his is the excerpt from my original post:

It isn't really the same thing to argue about why a modified fox body or F-body is a better deal then a new Z. The Z is a much nicer car in many ways, then either of those cars, but it isn't as fast..oh well!!


so i said modified in the above sentance and was comparing the Z to those two cars... i dont' think i could have made it more obvious.:confused: :confused:

Originally posted by Z06Lover


Yeah, I guess Nismo is just some crack company that makes bass akwards high performance parts for cars. How can you make these assupmtions when the car hasnt even been out to the general public yet? We know what the american muscle cars can and cant do. We have some specs on the Z. This is information that can be found readily by everyone. I am telling you and everyone else on this forum that if you want to say a GT mustang on average is going to run those 13.66 in 1/4 consistently then your in your fantasy worlds again.


where did i say it was avg for a GT mustang to run 13.66? again try actually reading my posts...


REad what you put, you said that the Z wasnt as fast as the other 2 aforementioned cars. If you said that those cars were modified I would understand but its not what you said. Dont get mad at people for ragging on you when what you say is incorrect or not what you really mean. Get your story straight.


i was talking about modified cars the entire time. it is much cheaper and easier to modify a 5.0 mustang then a Z. I am looking at a 10 sec 5.0 mustang right now for $8500..what 1/4 of the Z are you gonna get for that money?!?! :rolleyes:

As far as race cars go...you can get a mustang 5.0 for about $3-$6k depending on condition. i know for a fact i can make that car faster in any way then a new Z for the same money. Unless you start talking about money in the $100k range. I have a free $20k to start with. You are not going to over come that for a long time...get a grip.

I am really sorry i didn't put modified key word in the last sentance of my first post. I figured if you could read the whole post it was obvious what i was talking about...i guess it was not obvious to you..


You throw the Z06 and other cars in the picture too. Why? That Z06 stock will spank every car mentioned no questions asked. The M3 and S2000 arent very different from the Z car. I would venture to say that the Z has an edge on both. I am not biased either. I like Honda and BMW, but you cant let numbers slide when facts are facts.


again...seriously can you read an comprehend??
i said the Z06, the S2000, and the older pre 2001 M3 all have 50-50 weight distribution..no where did i say who was faster then who... shit am i the only one taking crazy pills here???? :eek:

here is my quote from my last post:


so i said modified in the above sentance and was comparing the Z to those two cars... i dont' think i could have made it more obvious.:confused: :confused:

I have know clue what your talking about. The entire time before you started "chiming" in we were talking about "stock" car performance. You want to talk mod cars go right ahead. I could take alot of cars and mod them up to beat a 350Z stock, Z06 or any other car. I could take alot of cars and do it cheaper too. NO S#$% SHERLOCK! This is a brand new car, you think the aftermarket companies are going to produce a plethora of parts for a car thats not even out in full yet? They dont know if the car will be successful let alone if there will be a viable market share for the Z and consumer demand for the mods. Common sense tells you this. I dont know what point your trying to prove? Obviously, you have none and start spouting off how I dont read your half-brained logic.

Your comment about the Z06 and BMW etc was worthless. Why did you even say it? Are you trying to compare the Z? Are you just simply stating obvious stats? You lost me and everyone else in the forum. Pick a stance and stick to it. Dont start fiddling around backpedaling saying I dont read or comprehend your writing. :bloated:

Your delusions of grandure and absolute misunderstanding of what a forum is really annoys me and I am sure everyone else who has to read it. If you want to continue this feel free to email me personally.
I think you have some valid points in what you say but you need to use complete thoughts in your reasoning. I cant read your mind. What you post is all "we" the forum collectively, have to ascertain what your trying to convey. In laymens terms, speak english senorita.

Originally posted by merc50
I trust Motor Trends time a bit more than C&D and someone said in another thread they hit 13.9. That has the stang and the Bullitt, although (and I am sure many of you are gonna disagree with me) I bet the average driver will turn better times with the Bullitt over the Z in the 1/4, maybe also in the GT but its not looking like it.

Merc, why do you think that the average driver could get faster times out of a bullit or mustang than a Z? I am sure that is somewhat biased:p, I know how you love them bullits. I know you have to have some reasoing behind it, just curious.

HHH

Originally posted by malibubong


I have know clue what your talking about. The entire time before you started "chiming" in we were talking about "stock" car performance. You want to talk mod cars go right ahead. I could take alot of cars and mod them up to beat a 350Z stock, Z06 or any other car. I could take alot of cars and do it cheaper too. NO S#$% SHERLOCK! This is a brand new car, you think the aftermarket companies are going to produce a plethora of parts for a car thats not even out in full yet? They dont know if the car will be successful let alone if there will be a viable market share for the Z and consumer demand for the mods. Common sense tells you this. I dont know what point your trying to prove? Obviously, you have none and start spouting off how I dont read your half-brained logic.

Your comment about the Z06 and BMW etc was worthless. Why did you even say it? Are you trying to compare the Z? Are you just simply stating obvious stats? You lost me and everyone else in the forum. Pick a stance and stick to it. Dont start fiddling around backpedaling saying I dont read or comprehend your writing. :bloated:

Your delusions of grandure and absolute misunderstanding of what a forum is really annoys me and I am sure everyone else who has to read it. If you want to continue this feel free to email me personally.
I think you have some valid points in what you say but you need to use complete thoughts in your reasoning. I cant read your mind. What you post is all "we" the forum collectively, have to ascertain what your trying to convey. In laymens terms, speak english senorita.

don't get mad because you didn't read my post, made some comments about it that were inaccurate and then I pointed it out. I even copied parts from my last posts so you would see the obvious parts.

The whole time i was sticking up for the Z.
Here is a quote from the original starting post:
Posted by jive
I am really disappointed in the new 350Z. Why didn't they make it faster? Why does it look like just about every other new sporty car these days? (That is to say, why is it butt ughly?) The 300ZX was beautiful. So were the earlier 240SX's, before they turned boxy.

When I started looking for a replacement for the 240SX, my first inclination was to get a used 300ZX. But I wound up buying a new 2002 Camaro Z28 convertible - the last of the breed, as you probably know. I fell in love with the power! I had to spend about $1500 more on after-market stiffening and suspension parts to make it handle suitably, but even with those extra expenses, the convertible cost me less than a base model hardtop 350Z will cost. The car goes zoom, and it does it without a blower. Stock zero to 60 in a bit over 5 seconds. I put a 2800 stall torque converter on it and did some minor tweaking, and now my 0-60 is under 5 seconds. I love it!


So he is comparing the Z vs the fact he has a modified camaro.

is he not talking about a modified car? is not discussing a point made by the originator of the thread staying on topic and making a point. The point was a fast car can be made much easier and cheaper by not buying a new Z, but then you won't have a new Z. You won't have a new car, the nice interior, and other good things that car has going for it.

As far as reading my mind...i showed you quotes...you just didn't read my posts or didn't understand them....they were very clear.

Seriously, i think we were arguing some of the same points. i have no idea why you picked my post to post about. It is obvious you didn't read it very well the first time you posted.

As far as the Z06, M3, S2000 comparison. It was only to show that I personally prefer a car with a 50/50 weight distribution and was disappointed the 350Z didn't have that. I don't see what is so tough to understand about that. I almost bought a used 2001 Z06 for $35k...so that puts it right in the league with the 350Z track model. The S2000 is the same price if not a little cheaper then the track model. The older M3 are cheaper then all of these cars. How do none of these cars compare to the 350Z??? The only thing i said was weight distribution and the fact i was disppapointed in that...that's it.

i dont' really understand your problem with my posts, but I am not going to e-mail you about it. I think we have discussed it more then enough on here. :confused:
Erik (*still confused about what i said that was soo off the wall or obtuse??*)

The torque of a V8 over the 6 and the straight axle are going to be way more forgiving in the 1/4 than the high reving 6 and sports car suspension. A Cobra with a straight axle would turn far better times in the 1/4 than the way they come now...wheel hop etc. slows them down a tad. A saw a guy who actually took a 99 Cobra and put in a rear and it increased the times a bunch. I imagine for the 1/4 you really gotta know the Z to get the really good times out of it and know how to launch it. I see 13.8 and 13.9 slips on Bullitts very often(best runs of the day I will point out), and I don't think most of those guys are pros. Take the WRX for example, it is capable of some hot times, but it is hard to get them and most guys can't with any consistancy...of course the 1/8 is where that car does a bit better when it does hook up! That being said, consistant 13.9's and lower I think will be tuff (OPINION) for most Z's. The GT and the Bullitt are going to lose alot to the Z and vice versa in the 1/4. The Mach 1 and the Z28 I would think should pretty much have the Z MOST of the time. IRS and drag racing are not the best combo always...but I am still amazed at these times the mags are getting from the Z.

Z06Lover,

Nissan designed the 350Z to have 52/48 weight distribution. Nissan/Renault might be under the impression that 52/48 weight distribution might be a better choice. :alien:

Originally posted by 350ZLover
Z06Lover,

Nissan designed the 350Z to have 52/48 weight distribution. Nissan/Renault might be under the impression that 52/48 weight distribution might be a better choice. :alien:
i know. I just said i prefer a car with a 50/50 weight distribution or a more weight in the rear like most mid-engine cars or rear-engine cars.:)

Everybody talking about American cars are better, obviously are just not making the sufficient amount of cash. Maybe that's why all they can say about American cars is that they're cheaper. You guys are right though, they are cheaper, in every aspect. You know how the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Originally posted by dogs4liferacing
Everybody talking about American cars are better, obviously are just not making the sufficient amount of cash. Maybe that's why all they can say about American cars is that they're cheaper. You guys are right though, they are cheaper, in every aspect. You know how the saying goes, you get what you pay for.
Yo dude, do you live you're life a 1/4 mile at a time?

No, I live my life enjoying the ability to handle and perform, they would a realy car should, and they way an import could.

Originally posted by dogs4liferacing
No, I live my life enjoying the ability to handle and perform, they would a realy car should, and they way an import could.
I rest my case! :D
This is like a bad Dr. Suess rhyme!!! :)

You no what, go fuck your self bitch!

Originally posted by malibubong


No matter how you slice it, the 350Z slapped the GT Stang's 0-60 time in Motor Trend and Car and Driver.

Disclosure: I've owned a 97 Cobra, and have a 350Z on order.

Yeah, but note that both magazines tested a 350Z Track model with a list price of nearly $35K.

For that same $35K you can drive off the lot with a 2003 Mustang Cobra. Same price. Same IRS rear, same big Brembos, same (sturdier) six speed tranny -- and gee, 100 more HP. Not 40 or 50 more HP -- a 103 more!

I'll enjoy my new 350Z, I have the base model on order. It'll come in around $28K.

If I had the extra $7K, I'd be kicking 350Z tail all over the place in the 2003 Cobra.

To all u domestic freaks out there. WHy do u have to go to every form and talk s#%$ about about imports. We dont go to your forms and do that stuff. THe day of the domestic is over. The styling is out of date; that deep throaty sound the v8's make sound more like diesel trucks than performace cars. The paint jobs on all but the vett and viper is poor. ( ask any quality detailer.) The reliability is terrible. ( U better know how to fix cars if u own 1.) Resale value is bad. Any Japanese car will beat its american conterpart on the road course. ( Real racing) Japanese cars last forever, and look good at it name one 1994 American car that still looks up to date. You cant thats because they want u to buy a new car every 2 years. Look at Pontiac they are the worse looking cars on the market. The front grill looks like %$^# , and every car looks alike. And with American cars nothing is standerd. You have to add everything onto the car making it cost more and more. I am from America and would love to support my auto industry. BUt if I buy the crap they are making now they will never make better cars.

to me, for the money a z costs, i'd rather get an impreza wrx, definetly one hell of a performer all around, and i won't say i know the figures, but i'm pretty sure a stock wrx could take a z without a whole lot of trouble.

come on guys, this is starting to sound like the mini forum, i love it i hate it, it's too weak , it's not a honda, it's not a chevy.....no shit!

Everybody has a different reason for buying a car, every body has a different view as to what PERFORMANCE is all about.

the best comparason for the new z car? it's predicessors(can't spell).

How does it fare against other stock z's? if it's performs less in power then i would consider it weak, less in handling then i would want more?

Does any body have the numbers for previous stock z?

lets check those out.

errrrrrrrrrr SolTheHoelessPimp you know the Z is faster then the U.S spec WRX in every way? and plus if you were racing from 60-140mph. the Z would spank the REX sooooo bad. the rex loses all its steam once it hits 80. the VQ35DE is a overly squared engine. soooo its got good low end good mid end and good top end. its a all around engine. and it may have less hp then the Z32. but the new Z weights a couple of hundred pounds less. sooooo the power to weight ratio is actually the same or better the older Z32's.

wicked, thanks for the info, but with the 10k i'd save, i'm sure i could make the wrx better, but for 35k i'd love to have a Z.

As a road course car it isn't so obvious, but that is just because there is just a lack of knowledge out there about what makes a car fast on a road course. With a full griggs suspension some engine modifications a 5.0 mustang can be made to kick some serious ass on even the twistiest courses for cheap. It may not have the "feel" of a NSX, but it will have the feeling of lapping them. That is not to say a NSX can't be made very fast..it just costs a whole lot more.

You ever watch SCCA on speed? That mustang is no slug.. Last Time I watched NSX was last, and the Mustang was somewhere in the middle. Porsche won ofcourse, but half those cars are Porsches so they have the advantage. And it was a tight track, Porsche brakes come into play. If it wasn't tight, I say the S4 would have won. That car was right behind the 911 but the 911 always lost him in the turns. What mustang is that by the way? Looks like the older generation 5.0s.

I pretty much love every car, but I have to admit that the new Z will be something to contend with. Compared to a Mustang, you lose weakness in it's ability to keep you comfortable and it's sports luxury oriented feel. You also get more room and a chassis that is two times more rigid than a Mustang. Because of it's short notch like body, it gives the Z more of the ability to handle better through turns. It's more balanced for the price. I love those Mustangs, but it requires more work to make their bodies rigid than buying a car that already comes with a strong chassis. As for Camaros, It may be a quick car but only if you pointed it straight. The handling is good, yet it will lose potency on a course with small narrow turns. Pound for pound, the 350Z has a really great starting base and is easier to work with without major modding. Lets say something like a cheaper Porsche. The proven VQ engine is also as potent as that of the Mustangs, N/A Porsches and the Camaros. When compared to the older Z, you lose a bit of power from the turbos, but like I said, the VQ is a potent engine, even more so than the VG it replaces (More efficient and reliable). Sure the turbos helped alot but imagine a turboed VQ? Think it's not possble? Or not available any time soon? Wrong, Japan already carries a few vehicles that already have a turbocharged VQ35. The trick is finding someone to offer it here. Nismo is comming soon, but I think they'll bring a supercharger instead. Oh, that Speed SCCA GT-class Mustang is a Saleen SR. Not slow indeed, but but has the benefit of a stock Saleen aero package and the GT class downforce add ons. I like it too, but I also like the Z. As for the WRX, only if we were off road. I'd rather take the WRX STI against a Z.

First off, I drive a camaro SS and sell nissan Z's and have driven them.

Next, IGNORE all magazine performance numbers, theyare never accurate. The Z handles awesome, but does NOT have the same tire burning power as my SS. O-60 would not be a blowout, but 80mph and above I'd pull away very nicely. I heard "Z06" mentioned a few times, the two cars do not compare and should not even be mentioned in the same sentence seeing as how the Z06 is quite possibly the most refined american sports car ever built. The Z28 and 350Z compare in price and its just a question of which you want most, slight handling improvement or a bit of power improvement. As far as build quality, both have great engines (yes the new gm powerplants are very stong) and the interiors are equally cheap and plasticy.

Uh..New Zcar? Let me think.....

Front end....Honda S2000?...Mitsu Eclipse?
Side view....Audi TT?
Rear....Merc Cougar?...Toyota Celica?

No originality...It may be a wicked little car, but the styling has been stolen from every auto maker around. Sorry, but it's quite obvious.

I was wanting to get the new 350Z but at the time they were not available yet (a month ago). Soooo, instead I went and purchased the 03 Cobra. I've enjoyed it alot. You are definately paying for the engine and not much else with this car (okay... transmission, and the rest of the driveline too) but 35k doesn't get you much of a special interior. It is american made so I get all the nice little rattle noises and such.

But overall I'm very happy with the Cobra. I saw a new 350z on the weekend and it looked pretty cool. My dad is looking for a new car now... I'm going to suggest the 350z. Its more than fast enough for him and I think it looks great too.

Wish the Z came with a turbo though for easier performance mods later on down the road.

Originally posted by rvanover
Uh..New Zcar? Let me think.....

Front end....Honda S2000?...Mitsu Eclipse?
Side view....Audi TT?
Rear....Merc Cougar?...Toyota Celica?

No originality...It may be a wicked little car, but the styling has been stolen from every auto maker around. Sorry, but it's quite obvious.

Hmm... Haven't automakers been copying each other for centuries? The NSX is like a mini Ferrari, S2000 a Z3/Porcshe, Eclipse/Cougar/Celica are very reminiscent of the Lotus and Fiero. With the new Camry looking like the European Peugeot with a Renault rear end. There are many ideas utilized to create a vehicles looks. If anything, With the new Aero improvements, everything will eventually start looking the same. Even all the older American built cars carried some of these resemblence from all of each other.
At the end it really comes down to preference and the goal of your vehicle. I agree with LS1, is it for the power, the looks, or the control. the only way to have it all is a lot of money. I like the Z because it's somewhere in the middle.

actually the Vette is a combo of the NSX and the RX-7, they only had to look at 2 cars to get that one.

oh, and how about the new Viper, does a larger scale S2000 come to mind???

The only thing the SS has going for it, is the ram-air LS1 motor. Take that away, and it's not much of a car. Can't imagine why someone would even buy a 3.8L Camaro.
With the SS rear single axle, heavy front-end, and mediocre suspension....it's a $26+K drag car. My friend still complain about the handling on his TransAm even with the progressive Eibach springs.
The SS is comparative to the Cobra (03 Cobra now king of the hill) and TransAm. The 350Z is in the league with Boxter and S2000.
So please no more comparison between apples and oranges. It is impressive that a V6 gets compared to a performance of a V8.

that is true, my family owns some car dealerships and one night my dad drives home an SS and says. "lets go play with it and see what it can do"

All I can say is that it is a POS, you have NO feel for the road, so much so that when you are smoking the tires you don't even know it, the thing rattles all over the place and handles like a 4000 lb boat (ohm wait, thats what it is). I honestly was hoping to have some "fun", all I came back with is "wow, I wonder when GM will learn how to build a refined car". I here that the Vette isn't as bad, BUT it is no Porsche either.

"I wonder when GM will learn how to build a refined car"

Have you driven a Z06 yet?
Thats all I will say.

I look at things from a price perspective.
Sure an LS1 is a $26k drag car, but dollar for dollar its the biggest performance value available today. That is a HUGE thing to have going for it. As far as handling, hairpins aren't the best, but on a long road course, you'd actually be quite impressed with an SS. Say you pay $26k for an SS...you couldn't get a track edition of the Z for under $40k right now, which is putting you in the range of a C5 vette now.

Hell, lets compare it to something of exact equal value, like mentioned above, the 03 Cobra. I have been a camaro fanatic forever so mustangs haven't really been my thing, but the new cobras are sweeeet. Not only is it supercharged, but the internals are forged and ready for more boost. It may handle slightly worse, but the power gains will more than outweigh the handling losses in a race. And as far as aftermarket goes, you can make an LS1/stang much faster for much cheaper. It IS like comparing apples and oranges, two fruits, one is probably cheaper than the other, but it is equally tasty and nutricious!

"you couldn't get a track edition of the Z for under $40k right now"

Actually, I can get any Z I want for dealer cost right now (my family owns a Nissan dealer, amoung others).

I have to admit I haven't driven a Z06, but I am not sure it would be much better than the standard vette (as far as refinement goes).

I just think everybody wants different things, (btw, you mention that the Camero is the best thing going for the $$ right now, etc, etc... I don't know if you have seen the sales figures on that car, but lets juts say that it isn't going away b/c there is a huge rush to go buy one, the Mustang is BLOWING that thing away, even though it is a much slower car, sales are much better, ultimately, that is what the company wants). I would rather have an S2000 or Z than a stock vette, and a M3 than a Z06. call me crazy, That is just me though.

they are going out for a redesign, as i'm sure you've seen the camaro has had the same body/chassis/engine for freak'n ever now, gm decided that instead of having an strange year like ford( aka there is no such thing as an 83 mustang, i think that the right year) they choose to remove the car from the market, redesign it and put it back into play.

Okay, i call you crazy!:D

The camaro has been taking a hit in the last few years definitely because the economy and gas prices. Mustang has outsold it because the name is more of an american classic cliche that attracts first car just-got-my-license kids and your 40yr old nervous breakdown need-to-get-my-youth-back mid life crisis types who don't know dick about cars and want the most trendy thing available. If you calculate hp in relation to dollars spent, you will find that the LS1 (and even the LT1's) have been the cheapest dollar-per-hp, and dollar per top speed mph. You can get a Formula for $20k stripped down, what other new car can you get for $20k and go 160mph bone stock??? I guess it all boils down to personal reasons/opinions. You would take the Z, I love the Z but i'd take the Z...06.
See you on the road!!

(& hope you brought your 100shot!!) ;)

Originally posted by LS1Steve
Okay, i call you crazy!:D

The camaro has been taking a hit in the last few years definitely because the economy and gas prices. Mustang has outsold it because the name is more of an american classic cliche that attracts first car just-got-my-license kids and your 40yr old nervous breakdown need-to-get-my-youth-back mid life crisis types who don't know dick about cars and want the most trendy thing available. If you calculate hp in relation to dollars spent, you will find that the LS1 (and even the LT1's) have been the cheapest dollar-per-hp, and dollar per top speed mph. You can get a Formula for $20k stripped down, what other new car can you get for $20k and go 160mph bone stock??? I guess it all boils down to personal reasons/opinions. You would take the Z, I love the Z but i'd take the Z...06.
See you on the road!!

(& hope you brought your 100shot!!) ;)

Okay, I am going to end this dollar-per-hp debate. Sure you can buy an LS1 for cheaper, initially. But after you calculate maintenance, repairs, gas, and depreciation you actually spent quite more for your LS1. Depreciation alone makes the Z a better "overall" bet. Let alone if you are even able to sell your LS1, the best you might be able to do is trade it in. I'm sure I will have no problem selling my Z, if I ever decide to. Not to bash you or anything, but I'm surprised you didn't consider this in your bang for the buck comparo. Isn't this "real world" economics?