Disappointed

Don't get me wrong, the new Cobra is OK, but they had to use a gas guzzling, power-robbing, heat-making, un-reliable BLOWER to make that horsepower? Before I knew this I thought the 390 horsepower was impressive, but now that I know they used a blower, well that blows it!
Uh, to me that is kinda like *cheating* on a test, which Ford and the Mustangs are know for to me. Remember when Ford got into trouble for
*embellishing* HP ratings for the prior Cobra and had to take some back and fix them to give them the *real* advertised HP? German and especially Jap cars are known for *downgrading* the actual HP numbers,
like the Supra and Skylines per se when they make more HP than advertised, so I am more inclined to believe those guys than Americans.
The current Cobra still looks like crap to me, especially that thin Ford paint!!! And a blower, puleeese!! BMW M5 and the Z06 ENGINEER their engines to make more than that WITHOUT A CHEATING BLOWER!
Anybody can tack on a blower, try making that HP NORMALLY. A blower, just like some turbos are just something else to go wrong, hence the very LOW amounts of blown factory engines produced. The only thing that impresses me about the car is the torque, but what do you expect from a BLOWER. The interior is typical Mustang CHEAP. The new seats still get bad marks. I would buy a Cobra as a toy for those rare 0-60 races, but would drive any other car for the rest of the time. Unless you know cars, the Cobra barely looks any different than the six cylinder cheapy Mustang. Heck even the M5 and other engines look beautifully symetrical compared to the Ford engine. American cars simply look and feel *rough* and *unfinished* without any attention paid to detail. Simply torque engines, and barely that. I see short engine and blower life from the Cobra. I will take the 100 or so lesser HP Z, which is a real
LOOKER compared to that Cobra.

Originally posted by importriders


Why compare it to the track, all the Z's have the same motor and suspension, the only difference performance wise between a base and the track Z is the wheels and brakes. So really price is an issue, base 350 is $26k and Cobra is $33k. Seems like a big difference to me.

Plus, didn't Ford build those SUV's a while back that had those death tires on them and they knew all along??? Thats why I will never buy a Ford no matter what even if they start making good cars.

Because the base 350 doesn't have a limited slip differential and has smaller brakes. You don't think the bigger brakes and wheels and the LSD would help a wee bit in the performance category?

Death tires? Shows you did no research.

it looks better............and up here in Canada, there are tons of Mustangs of all breeds on the roads...............and power is not the only yardstick one should consider IMHO

Originally posted by formerfordguy


Because the base 350 doesn't have a limited slip differential and has smaller brakes. You don't think the bigger brakes and wheels and the LSD would help a wee bit in the performance category?

Death tires? Shows you did no research.

Nope, I think a base 350 can take a Cobra on the track stock vs. stock. And I'm sure many people on this board agree.

So if it wasn't the tires then what was wrong. Can you please elaborate. Was it Ford engineering, poor manufacturing, or what? In either case if it was the tires I blame Ford for putting them on the Explorer and if it was Ford engineering, well then there you go. I definitely know it wasnt just freak accidents.

Originally posted by ZV3
A blower, just like some turbos are just something else to go wrong, hence the very LOW amounts of blown factory engines produced.

All the AMG cars are "blown". All the Audi s & RS cars have turbos. All the R Type Jags are blown. All the Bentleys use blowers. The Skyline and Supra were/are/will be blown. These are all European or Japanese cars that tend to be better built and more reliable than American cars (I agree with you on that). There is nothing inherently less reliable in a blown engine thats designed to be just that. Most of the problems occur with after market units tacked on without proper research. and yes, the Z looks waaaay better than the Mustang. But then, the Focus RS looks better than the Mustang.

I know Turbo engines designed for that are pretty reliable. Supercharged engines to me are slightly less so, that's why I don't see many around. I think Nissan makes a Supercharged truck but don't know of anybody else. My buddy has a 400 horse, bullet-proof Supra
and those things are rock-solid!! Read about the stock-block taking up to
almost 1000 horse!

All the AMG's Mercs are super charged. From the list in my previous post, only the Audis and Bentleys use Turbos. I believe Superchargers are more bullet-proof than turbos. Turbos are a bit more efficient as far as power delivery is concerned.

hey to all you out there that are bad mouthing the Z cars, last time i checked this was a Z forum not an american muscle car forum. go talk shit about the Z to some one that cares. i know that this car will out perform almost any v8 you can throw at it. on a road track not a drag strip, they compared the 350 Z track model to the Z06 corvette and the 350 Z blew it away. they heavy feel of the corvette and the huge amounts of body roll in turns by the corvette let the Z make it its bitch. there is more to racing then going in a strait line, any one who knows how to race i car knows that.

i know that this car will out perform almost any v8 you can throw at it. on a road track not a drag strip, they compared the 350 Z track model to the Z06 corvette and the 350 Z blew it away. they heavy feel of the corvette and the huge amounts of body roll in turns by the corvette let the Z make it its bitch

Who's this 'They'? Youre dreaming if you think a Z could even come close to a Z06 in any kind of race. The Z06 is the best handling, fastest rated road race car in the world. Just check the numbers from all the reviews. For instance, take the slalom rating. Motortrend has the Z06 at 70.3 mph, and the Z track model only scored 67.8 mph!!! Get Real....

I like all cars. I own a corvette zr1 I bought new in 1990. It is the fast as hell. I own a 2001 ford excursion with a v-10 that runs great. I am getting my 350z In a couple of days. What is the point? All cars are diffrent thank god they are. Not all jap, or german, or American. You people remind me of kids fighting in the 8th grade. some of you need to grow up, and make enough money where you can have them all in your driveway. Then when you do you will be proud of all of em. Just my 2cents. Dave.

Then when you do you will be proud of all of em. Just my 2cents. Dave.

Amen! And when you do own them all, youll realize that your Z06 will run circles around your 350Z, but that doest mean you dont like your 350 Z for what it is.

Motortrend has the Z06 at 70.3 mph, and the Z track model only scored 67.8 mph!!!

Not to say that the Z06 is not a great car because it is. According to Road & Tracks March issue the Z06 was 67.5 in the slalom and according to Sport Compact cars October issue the 350Z ENTHUSIAST model ran 70.2 in the slalom. The Z06 is also $13,000 more than a fully loaded Z. I ordered my Z today. Touring Model 6MT fully loaded in Lemans Sunset with Burnt Orange leather.

I do not know why you steadily defend the American Muscle Cars. Every american car I ever owned was trash. When I was 16 I bought a 1976 Ford Bronco for $2500 over the following 2 years I spent over $8000 replacing just about every part in the car including the engine & transmission. When I was 18 my grandmother passed away and gave me her 1990 Ford Taures fully loaded it was 4 years old with 17,000 miles and had been through two transmissions. I put another 20,000 miles on it in 2 years and went through 2 more transmissions. I took it in to get the breaks redone and they caught on fire before I made it home. In 1996 I bought a fully loaded 4-wheel drive Chevy Blazer brand new. 3 1/2 years later with 46,000 miles on it the radiatorself destructed and ruined the engine even though it had a sticker on it which said not to service for 100,000 miles. I took it into the dealer and they told me that the warrenty only covered 3yrs or 36k, and it would cost me a couple thousand dollars to replace the endgine. I in turn told them the lease was up in a couple of months and I would leave it there and drive one of my other cars. After long negotiations and a few calls to General Motors they agreed to make the repair for $200.00. My wife has a few cars as well. She normally drives her Honda Odyssey; however she does have a 1995 Olds Acheiva with 60,000 miles on it and the damn car wont go in reverse. I was told by a transmission shop that it would cost $1500 to repair. My current car I drive which I will keep when I take delivery on my Z is a 1997 Honda Accord EX which since I bought new 5 years ago and have put 155,000 miles on it and with the exception of normal maintenence(oil, plugs, wipers, tires, timing belt) I have not had 1 problem with it.

I am a white male 26 years of age and used to be completely gung ho on american iron, but this view has changed dramatically over the last several years and will not return until we start making cars as well as our japanese and european counterparts. By the way I looked at buying a new thunderbird, but that was scrapped after I saw 3 in 1 month broken down on the highway.

According to Road & Tracks March issue the Z06 was 67.5 in the slalom and according to Sport Compact cars October issue the 350Z ENTHUSIAST model ran 70.2 in the slalom.

I was careful to quote performance numbers for both cars from the same magazine. You cant compare slalom quotes across mags, because each mag has its own way of testing. A slalom test of car A from one mag simply cannot be compared to a slalom test of car B in another mag.

>>I do not know why you steadily defend the American Muscle Cars. Every american car I ever owned was trash. When I was 16 I bought a 1976 Ford Bronco for $2500 <<

Boy, do you have that wrong! I hate american cars, in general. And teh bronco which you mention was probably the worst of the pack! The only american cars Ive ever defended are the '03 Cobra, and the Z06. Because for the most part, I think they can hang pretty well with world class competition. And, honestly, if the 350Z came with a TT version, It would probably head my list of favorites!

As far as listing individual problems with individual samples is concerned, let me tell you that no brand is immune. Would you like me to list 4 serious things which happen to affect more than half all E36 bmws out there? Believe me, they exist, and theyre costly. In general, American quality has been horrible over the years. But recently, the chasm is narrowed considerably. Again, Im no apologist for american car makers. I just happen to be fans of two particular models. Along with many Euro and Japanese makes. Rather than condemming an entire country of makes, I think the smart way to go is to be ecclectic.

I was careful to quote performance numbers for both cars from the same magazine. You cant compare slalom quotes across mags, because each mag has its own way of testing. A slalom test of car A from one mag simply cannot be compared to a slalom test of car B in another mag.

Fair enough! I looked up what Road & Track published for the 350Z which is 65.6 compared to 67.5 for the Z06, but we are still talking at least $15,000 difference in price.

The only american cars Ive ever defended are the '03 Cobra, and the Z06. Because for the most part, I think they can hang pretty well with world class competition.

You are absolutly correct. The corvettes and mustangs have almost always been formidable opponents on the track except for a brief period during the 70's and 80's. It would be nice if they spent a little more time and money refining their interiors so they dont look and feel as cheap. Car & Driver did a review on the Z06 when it first launched and stated that if GM would have spent an extra couple hundred dollars they could have provided a much more luxurious cockpit. I believe that the european and japanese automakers concentrate on trying to provide the whole package.

By the way I would love a chance to put your BMW through its paces. The M3 has been one of my dream cars for several years, and to throw a supercharger on top WOW! I did have a chance to drive my buddies M3, because I was possibly interested in buying it when he got his M5. I opted out when I found that the new M3 had 330 compared to his 240. My wife sells Mini's & BMW's so that was the car I was going to buy until the 350Z was released.

Its pretty nice to communicate with someone who is as well versed as yourself instead of some of these 14 year olds who think they can trick us into believing they own Ferrari's and 233 MPH 300ZX's. You can tell by analyzing their grammer and knowledge on the subject to determine whether they are just throwing a front.

By the way I would love a chance to put your BMW through its paces. The M3 has been one of my dream cars for several years, and to throw a supercharger on top WOW

Hey Tom, thanks for the nice response. If you knew me, youd see that Im really the last person to be a dogmatic defender of american autos. I will admit, though that these two have caught my fancy. As for the M3, its a car I bought new for $43,000 in July, 1999. Shortly thereafter, I started sinking mucho dinero into it, starting with a Dinan computer upgrade, which I replaced shortly after that with a complete Dinan Supercharger kit, includiing Dinan stainless Exhaust, software, intake, the whole works. An Aquamist water injection system has been added to make sure heat soak is never an issue. The car now dynos 350 rear wheel horsepower. The cars are reported to suffer an 18% drivertrain loss, so the M3 is now putting about 420 horsepower to the crank....Its teamed up with a Dinan suspension composed of Koni adjustable shocks, and Dinan matched springs. Its even got beautiful finishing touches, like very expensive Fikse Forged 3 pc 17" rims and new Michilen Pilot Sport rubber 245x40-17 all around. All the upgrades cost me in excess of an additional $20.000, so, all told, the car cost about $65,000.

For some strange reason, these new '03 SVT Cobras have really caught my attention. Alot of people cant understand why, owning the car I do, why my head would be the least bit turned by the Cobras. I dont claim to understand it...ONly that Ive been bitten , for some reason. If I were to try and sell my M3, there are those that say all the upgrades the car has will make it harder to sell....And Im not just talking about shrinking the market. They really think its makes the car worth less money. But the way I see it, if there is someone who wants an M3, and they want it with more power, only they know they could never afford to put the 20-25 thousand dollars it would cost to invest to get it to this level, then being able to buy one at just a few thou over book price on the stock version should be an excellent opportunity. For instance, if book on my car is $31,000, then is it so outlandish to expect that someone who's interested in a beautifully cared for model with near 25 grand in recent upgrades producing a car that puts out 150 more horsepower than the stock piece, would be willing to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000 for it? Thats getting about $25,000 in desirable, high quality upgrades stilll in the infancy of their existance, for about $4000! Well, I dont know, but would think this would be just the ticket for someone out there, if I were going to sell. Who knows. If that cobra keeps barking at me.... I was thinking of maybe owning both, but that just seems too extravagent to me, given the current stock market, and other items in my life.

the E36 M3 is a really wonderful car, both for track and street. its the best feeling 240 hp you could ever buy, not the slightest bit inadequate. the main problem is that it is such a desirable car used ones can still be the price of a new 350Z. the new E42 M3 hasnt proven itself to be as versatile; despite having more power it is also heavier.

with the IRS, the new cobras are a decent alternative to the 350Z, although they are even heavier than the new M3. insurance costs should be a bit higher than the non-boosted V6 in the new Z though. depreciation? i think both the 350 and the cobra should hold value reasonably well and remain easy to sell. but isnt the cobra significantly more than 28K?

-james
65 cobra and 240Z owner

QUOTE]For instance, if book on my car is $31,000, then is it so outlandish to expect that someone who's interested in a beautifully cared for model with near 25 grand in recent upgrades producing a car that puts out 150 more horsepower than the stock piece, would be willing to pay somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000 for it?[/QUOTE]

If my memory serves me correctly I saw a supercharged M3 with a Brembo package on it for sale in Dupont Registry or the Robb Report a couple years back I believe the car was about 4 years old at the time and they were asking 34,000 for it. I think that you would probably get what you want for it if you marketed it to the correct group of people. I would probably guess Males age 25-35 with an income over $70,000 a year.

I was thinking of maybe owning both, but that just seems too extravagent to me, given the current stock market, and other items in my life.

You are not kidding I am embarrased to tell how much I lost in companies like Worldcom and Nextel. I am lucky my company has a really good 401K plan because my individual brokerage account has pretty much gone down the toilet with the exception of some of my overseas investments and government bonds.

Good luck selling the car if you decide to and I hope you do not regret buying a Cobra a couple years down the road. It sounds like you tend to live by the same motto I do

(you only live once spend it while you got it and have as much fun as you can doing it)

to those guys out there that think the chevy 350 is not reliable ive got a chevy 350 that has over 250,000 miles on so maybe its just the Z06.:flipa:

Umm sorry Cobra Loves, but they just stopped production on the car. OH WELL. Guess that good ole Ford Reliablitay :rolleyes: isn't what it used to be :rolleyes: :rolleyes: (or maybe never was!)

Cool forum, I just signed up. :D

I currently own a 2001 Honda prelude and a 2001 Pontiac Firebird (Base-TTop). I really dig both cars, and until recently, I was a domestic basher as well. But they are fast cars, but no, they are not built as good as Hondas and Acuras and Nissans. I am wanting to get out of my Prelude and get a new car. I was wanting the 350Z but I have heard so many complaints......one being the most important to me. And that is that I have heard that it's not as fast as it should be for the engine it has.

So from the Z owners....is it as fast as it should be, or is the damn thing quick ? Like I said I drive a prelude, so it is without a doubt faster than my car. But is it worth 27K ??

I've been driving my 300ZX for about 8 years and recently purchased the 350Z.
Here are some observation.
1. Within 24 hours women were leaving business cards on my windshield. (its a chick magnet...why I don't know)

2. The Bose on my 93' 300ZX sounds better than the new 350Z Bose.
3. The ride in my 300ZX is more smooth and comfortable than the 350Z.
4. Every TangGT wants to race me. (inferiority complex I guess)
5. There is less room in the 350Z than the 300ZX.
6. If you are over 6'2" you will be miserable driving this car.
7. The 350Z gets noticed.
8. I purchased the Touring with every option available...including 100K mile extended warranty. My previous experience with Zs tells me I'll be using it within 4years.
9. The 350Z grips better than any car I have driven. The Vehicle Dynamic Control makes a big difference.
10. It is easier to enter and exit the 350 over a Corvette.
11. The 350Z isn't a drag strip racer and I knew that when I purchased it.
12. At a total OTD price of $41K I still enjoy the car. I measure its value by quality of engine design, agility, nimbleness, asthetics, Safety features, and grunt. All of which the 350Z has.

This car was designed for drivers that enjoy driving over 1/4 mile bursts.

The 350Z isn't a drag strip racer ... This car was designed for drivers that enjoy driving over 1/4 mile bursts

Thats two references to its less than stellar staightline speed ability. With its sub 300 hp rating, that should come as no surprise. Yet, with a 0-60 rating of somewhere around 5.5 sec, there are plenty of cars it should shut down. Is there any other reason, besides the HP rating, that leads you to say youre not thrilled with its dragstrip abilities?

Anyway, Ive been in a similar boat. With a '99 M3, it too was a great road car, without great dragstrip abilities, with similar stock acceleration to yours. Yet, I always found that if the car handles great, and is super in every other area, you can live wtih it, or improve it. Now, with a vortch blower, its both a great Road car, AND a great dragster too.

You can do the same if it bothers you enough.

IF I feel the need for speed I take out the Hayabusa. There just is no substitute for the thrill a speed bike can give you.

Well dude, of course the Hayabusa is gonna be fast. :D

So is the Z fast or so-so for having 287hp ?

Originally posted by d8abusa
[B]I've been driving my 300ZX for about 8 years and recently purchased the 350Z.
Here are some observation.
1. Within 24 hours women were leaving business cards on my windshield. (its a chick magnet...why I don't know)


man! women in your area are cheap! :silly2:

I was thinking that too. :D

Don't get me wrong, the new Cobra is OK, but they had to use a gas guzzling, power-robbing, heat-making, un-reliable BLOWER to make that horsepower? Before I knew this I thought the 390 horsepower was impressive, but now that I know they used a blower, well that blows it!
Uh, to me that is kinda like *cheating* on a test, which Ford and the Mustangs are know for to me. Remember when Ford got into trouble for
*embellishing* HP ratings for the prior Cobra and had to take some back and fix them to give them the *real* advertised HP? German and especially Jap cars are known for *downgrading* the actual HP numbers,
like the Supra and Skylines per se when they make more HP than advertised, so I am more inclined to believe those guys than Americans.
The current Cobra still looks like crap to me, especially that thin Ford paint!!! And a blower, puleeese!! BMW M5 and the Z06 ENGINEER their engines to make more than that WITHOUT A CHEATING BLOWER!
Anybody can tack on a blower, try making that HP NORMALLY. A blower, just like some turbos are just something else to go wrong, hence the very LOW amounts of blown factory engines produced. The only thing that impresses me about the car is the torque, but what do you expect from a BLOWER. The interior is typical Mustang CHEAP. The new seats still get bad marks. I would buy a Cobra as a toy for those rare 0-60 races, but would drive any other car for the rest of the time. Unless you know cars, the Cobra barely looks any different than the six cylinder cheapy Mustang. Heck even the M5 and other engines look beautifully symetrical compared to the Ford engine. American cars simply look and feel *rough* and *unfinished* without any attention paid to detail. Simply torque engines, and barely that. I see short engine and blower life from the Cobra. I will take the 100 or so lesser HP Z, which is a real
LOOKER compared to that Cobra.

I apologize for being the forum troll, but I came across this thread when looking on google.com for some Ford Focus RS specs.

First, power robbing, gas-guzzling blower? And your point is? Any forced induction vehicle under boost is going to use more gas. HP is pretty much related to fuel consumption (depends on how efficient the motor is). My family's 2003 Cobra actually gets 26MPG on the highway. I'm not sure what the new 350Z gets, but I'm sure it's not much more and may even be less.
As for the look, I prefer a sleeper any day. That's why my little stock looking Civic is getting a high HP, turbo motor (300HP to 400HP depending on boost level).
Simply torque engines? Have you ever looked at a dyno graph of a new Cobra? They make power untill redline. The quad cam V8 flows extremely well. Well enough to support huge power gains with a little more boost.
Rough...yes. The feel is not anything compared to the new Z I bet, but it does handle pretty well. When you pay $35,000 for 390HP (its actually closer to 420 - 430), its going to be a little rough around the edges. Nothing you can't fix with the money you have left over from not buying a Z06.
Looks are in the eye of the beholder. I definitely prefer the Cobra over the new Z any day (I'm not a big fan of the Audi TT rear end on the new ones), but you know what car will always be better looking? The original 240Z.

I know Turbo engines designed for that are pretty reliable. Supercharged engines to me are slightly less so, that's why I don't see many around. I think Nissan makes a Supercharged truck but don't know of anybody else. My buddy has a 400 horse, bullet-proof Supra
and those things are rock-solid!! Read about the stock-block taking up to
almost 1000 horse!

Fortunately what you say about supercharged motors being less reliable is not true. The Cobras will put out more than 1000HP on a stock block thanks to a whole forged bottom end.

I had a '97 M3 and I now have a 350Z......no comparison. The 350Z is much faster and stronger...however, not as strong as my '92 300ZX TT felt. [My memory of that car may be exaggerated, however.]

I am 6'3 and weigh 220 lbs. The 350Z has PLENTY of room for me....more headroom/shoulder room than the M3.

If you are disappointed with the acceleration, turn off the VDC. It cuts power to keep the wheels from spinning. I went to a driver school a few weeks ago and turned off the VDC.....huge difference in acceleration!