M3 Opponents

Hey All, was just wondering, what are the major opponents of the M3 that you know of? From what I've seen and read most of them are:

Of course, the Camaro SS, that thing is fast! And it's a shame to see an M3 get dusted by one, good battle though.

The toyota Supra. With a giant turbo, and even a touch of Nos, that thing is a monster. That's why we gotta mod our M3's to keep up with these high end imports! heh (RX7, NSX, etc..)

I can't think of anymore right now. Oh, and the CLK.

hah, almost forgot, the S4 too. stock for stock the S4 would probably win, but you never know.

Also, a lot of the time, a race comes down to the owner and the way they shift. In drag battles (most battles on the street), it depends heavily on the shifting speed, accuracy, how fast and how much you let the clutch go, how much tire spin, etc. So sometimes if you hear someone get smoked by another car, think twice! heh =)

Of course, the Camaro SS

WHAT?

Oh, and the CLK.

WHAT????

hah, almost forgot, the S4 too. stock for stock the S4 would probably win, but you never know.



WHAT!!?????????????????????????!??!

the M3 would kill all three of these cars, the M3 convertible beat the CLK55 convertible in a recent car mag, so i am sure the m3 coupe would beat the clk55 coupe, the camaro is, well, a camaro, which is fgast but not as fast as the m3, and then the S4!!!! it would have no chance against the M3!

Not to sure the M3 is gonna have much trouble keeping up w/ an NSX being has it has more hp & torque.

I don't wanna come on your board and start stuff but with my own personal experience with M3's (I've only raced 2) I have one both times by a reasonable amount which was at least 3 car lengths each time.

I don't mean to bash the M3 because it is an awesome car and I am looking to purchase one in the next months. Also its like comparing apples and oranges, a camaro will obviously take the M3 on the drag strip and if modded correctly it would take it on the road racing course but stock for stock I think the Camaro would get it on the drag strip and M3 on the raod racing.

my .02$

Collin

Originally posted by snorlaxtowncar

the M3 would kill all three of these cars, the M3 convertible beat the CLK55 convertible in a recent car mag, so i am sure the m3 coupe would beat the clk55 coupe, the camaro is, well, a camaro, which is fgast but not as fast as the m3, and then the S4!!!! it would have no chance against the M3!

hehee...i know what youre talking about...road & track

i think the SLK 32 AMG and C32 AMG are the immedidate competition

i couldn't agree with you more :)

http://www.supercars.net/Comp?sourceList=1299&CompList=345-118-207-1471

And it doesnt say on the link but the M3 does the 1/4 in 13.4.

I think you forgot about a Corvette Z06. Those things are nuts!

I dont think the m3 has any real direct opponents other than 'benz. because they both offer cars that no one else in the world can try to match. sure other cars beat them on timing and every once in a while handling, but they will never feel like a bmw

you couldn;t have said it better- that is exactly the situation. cars might be a little faster sometimes, or even all the time, et they do not have that special feel of a mercedes or BMW, and they do not have their chick attracting power :). would you rather have a girl that comes to you for having an american musclecar, or one that comes to you for european luxury? :):D (supposing you want these gold diggers at all)

Theres no closer rival than the 996 C2

I did beat last week 3 times a porche 996 s4 at a red light start, and the mercedes amg can't beat me at the red lights from o-60 mph, no way, the european cars that are faster than mine are, ; porche turbo, ferrari manarello, and mayby a few other super sportscars ???:confused: but all the others.....:finger: :)

it's the best car i ever got, sssssuuuuuuppppppeeeeeeeerrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!

With equal drivers, any 911 of the current line-up should beat an M3

you cant ever compare a car like the M3 to any of those American heaps of shit. Not meanin to put down American cars in any way, but America just cant build a car like the Germans can. Only competition in the same category is the C32 AMG. And straight line speed is the least important measure of speed, handling is where its alll at. And in that department my friends, the M3 has all but the best beaten

Originally posted by crayzayjay
With equal drivers, any 911 of the current line-up should beat an M3

no way, let them all com, exept the turbo and the gt3, no problem to beat them!!

How about a 03 cobra or a lightning? My best 1/4 to date is 12.6 in my lightning.

Originally posted by SSilver
I don't wanna come on your board and start stuff but with my own personal experience with M3's (I've only raced 2) I have one both times by a reasonable amount which was at least 3 car lengths each time.

I don't mean to bash the M3 because it is an awesome car and I am looking to purchase one in the next months. Also its like comparing apples and oranges, a camaro will obviously take the M3 on the drag strip and if modded correctly it would take it on the road racing course but stock for stock I think the Camaro would get it on the drag strip and M3 on the raod racing.

my .02$

Collin

I agree with SSilver, not only because i own a Camaro. I raced a E46M3 from a stop twice with the same outcome and i ended in front of him by 1- 1 1/2 car by the end of 3rd gear. M3's aren't meant for drag racing, but they will do good in race tracks.

Originally posted by 00 lightning
How about a 03 cobra or a lightning? My best 1/4 to date is 12.6 in my lightning.

L's are fast in the 1/4 mile because they always get good 60ft's time which will lower their ET. I think from a roll the L wont do as good with the M3. Whats the traps on your 12.6 run? The 03 Cobra is another monster, i wouldnt compare it with a M3 nor M5. Your talking about 360RWHP car which mean 268RWKW thats about 425 Flywheel HP and 315KW STOCK and all that power moves 3600LBS car which is still good power to weight ratio. The 03 Cobra with simple mods could see close to 500RWHP which will make it compete with Vipers at that level.

LSs1Power, your right, a stock lightning probably couldn't hang on a 70+ role. It seems to be aerodynamically challenged. My mph on that run was 106. I've knocked a half second off my 1/4, but for some reason cant get anymore mph. Other lightnings running these times are around 109/110. I dynoed 360 rwhp w/ a chip and filter. I was running 13.1 at that time. Since then I've added a bit so it should be around 400 rwhp.

Originally posted by Pennzoil GT-R
you cant ever compare a car like the M3 to any of those American heaps of shit. Not meanin to put down American cars in any way, but America just cant build a car like the Germans can. Only competition in the same category is the C32 AMG. And straight line speed is the least important measure of speed, handling is where its alll at. And in that department my friends, the M3 has all but the best beaten

The M3 is a great vehicle, but America holds it's own in making performance cars that out perform the M3 in every aspect except luxury, and thats why we have Cadillac :D

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/ArticleDisplay.asp?ArticleID=224

And the Fbody's (Camaro and TransAm) pull in a decent .87 lateral G's, which is right up there with the M3, but like I said before we can't touch you in the performance to comfort level.

Originally posted by T/A Barracus


The M3 is a great vehicle, but America holds it's own in making performance cars that out perform the M3 in every aspect except luxury, and thats why we have Cadillac :D

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/ArticleDisplay.asp?ArticleID=224

And the Fbody's (Camaro and TransAm) pull in a decent .87 lateral G's, which is right up there with the M3, but like I said before we can't touch you in the performance to comfort level.

i will not slate American cars, because there are some good cars(Corvette and Viper),but the one problem is ease of driving.I think most magazines and owners will tell you a Vette and a Viper are hard to drive at the limit. A skilled driver will get good times out of them,but the problem is they are all about grip,and not about handling,which is what makes a REALLY quick car.A normal driver will screw up,and even michael schumacher cannot drive 100% perfect.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/feature...p?ArticleID=224

i dont know who this Bryan Herta is, but judging from some of his comments im guessing he learnt to drive yesterday

the M3 is a great car------but I think a definite overpriced one. Most dealers are selling the convertible for $60k-----because they can . . . will get it for that. The 03 Cobra-----is pretty much a BEAST. With a supercharger capable of 15psi-----when it comes off the showroom floor at 8psi-----well---you guys get the picture----BMW needs to put something new on the table-----they'll probably supercharge the M3----some one made a comment on this thread about the AMG models-----they are definetely a bit overrated-----especially with the weak superchargers they carry. The 03 Cobra is the top supercharged car out there----my apologies----to the 493hp SL55AMG------your car is way too heavy----and the supercharger used by that car is of lower quality than Eaton------may be quiter------but the Eaton slams home more torque---------Hp sells the cars----but torque wins the races. M3, all AMG cars---get out the way----the Cobra is coming through------and you can't catch up :finger:

Originally posted by robslob
The 03 Cobra is the top supercharged car out there----my apologies----to the 493hp SL55AMG------your car is way too heavy----and the supercharger used by that car is of lower quality than Eaton.

I would like to comment on the SL55 thing. FYI the SL55 did beat the GT2 and Marcialgo to 300Km(186mph) In stock form. I wouldnt call that weak or slow. Yes it is heavy but the car will do the 1/4mile in 12.5 at 116 which is faster than a stock 03 Cobra. Maybe it is slower to 60 due to weight adv. for the cobra but it will carry it self after that and will catch a GT2 or Lambo Marcilago after that. So imagine doing a roll with this beast on the highway at 60mph, it wouldnt even be pretty seeing it pulling away like ur standing still. I would call that fast enough for a lux sport coupe cov. Dont u think so?

is on the superchargers used by the SL 55 AMG as opposed to the Cobra------if you read closely----which you did not not------I spoke of the 03 Cobra Eaton supercharger--as opposed to the used by the Sl55 AMG version-------FOR YOUR INFORMATION-----the stock supercharger on the SL55 AMG is running at its maximum psi---the 03 COBRA is not:eek: The 03 Cobra runs 8psi-----off the factory grounds-----it's supercharger has a 15psi---limit. If the Cobra's supercharger is running its maximum boost----then it easily makes over 500rwhp-------not 500 fllywheel horsepower-------but 500RWHP-----with this car weighing at3,660lbs vs. the 4235lbs that the SL carries-------its an easy victory for the Cobra----those were the comparisons-------oh and I did forget to mention-----that the 03 cobra-----is much more striking appearance wise---than Mercedes top dog-----$100,000 for that-----its embarassing how overpriced Mercedes makes their cars-----especially when AMG 'ripped off' their concepts from SVT:silly2:

Originally posted by robslob
is on the superchargers used by the SL 55 AMG as opposed to the Cobra------if you read closely----which you did not not------I spoke of the 03 Cobra Eaton supercharger--as opposed to the used by the Sl55 AMG version-------FOR YOUR INFORMATION-----the stock supercharger on the SL55 AMG is running at its maximum psi---the 03 COBRA is not:eek: The 03 Cobra runs 8psi-----off the factory grounds-----it's supercharger has a 15psi---limit. If the Cobra's supercharger is running its maximum boost----then it easily makes over 500rwhp-------not 500 fllywheel horsepower-------but 500RWHP-----with this car weighing at3,660lbs vs. the 4235lbs that the SL carries-------its an easy victory for the Cobra----those were the comparisons-------oh and I did forget to mention-----that the 03 cobra-----is much more striking appearance wise---than Mercedes top dog-----$100,000 for that-----its embarassing how overpriced Mercedes makes their cars-----especially when AMG 'ripped off' their concepts from SVT:silly2:

I know what ur talking about, but i meant to say that the SC on the SL55 is doing its job. If u put the Eaton SC on the SL55 it will be overspun too. The motor is 5.4L and it needs something as strong as the Kenny Bell SC to give it what it needs. MB tuners knows that the SC on the SL55 is maxed out and some of them now have Chips which will add 60HP from this maxed out SC. Some of them are thinking about swaping a stronger SC instead of this maxed out one. And believe me the people who is going to pay 160K for this car wont find it hard to add another 30K for SC swap and modding the car. But i wouldnt be comparing the 03Cobra to a SL55, come on man. Oh one more thing MB cars are set for topspeed runs more than 1/4mile runs. If u ask me who would win from 0-200mph, 03Cobra has 500RWHP and the SL55 has stock 500HP i would say SL55. Dont forget the .27CD for the SL which helps it alot at topspeeds. In germany they usually cruise at speeds over 160MPH. 03Cobra will find that hard to do and be stable like the SL55. Anyways we are comparing two different cars here and we can on and on over this thing.

U should check this thread to get an idea about MB tuners http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17878

I know that the 03Cobra is going to have a Kenny Bell SC upgrade too and it will give around 600RWHP. U can read this tread about it http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=179399

I'd have to say that you are definetely right about the 0-200mph---and thats only a result of the Cobra not being capable than more than 175mph with the governor removed. I have to say though, if the car was capable of more than 200mph----I would still go with the cobra------simply because the Cobra has more top end power at 4000rpm-----but this is all mere speculation----because the Cobra has a redline of 6,600rpm-------so unless it was extended------it wouldn't be able to match the SL55s above 7,000rpm. You were dead right about the stability issue on the Cobra-------above 120mph------its unstable-----in stock form-----that car needs a simple swap of the rear upper and lower control arms------as well as a swap of the k-member--and addition of coil over springs to keep stability at speeds above that-----I speak on experience since my supercharged 01 Cobra----has undergone every imaginable mod short of turning into into a Nascar runner. From evrything I've read-------the 2006 SVT Cobra------will put to shame every car outhere--------Its going to be a beast according to all of the initial press------and it should be considering that Chevy is coincidentally put out the new C6 Vette the same year. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the 06 Cobra----becomes top dog outhere despite the Vipers and Vettes-----I interpret the 03 as a warning to all manufacturers----that a monster is on its way------I believe the 06 Cobra will beengineered much the same way the 2000 Cobra R was--------because that vehicle was capable of remaining planted at over 200mph------I know it wasn't capable of that speed stock wise------but with a supercharger and rev extendeder---SVT claims that it would------considering the mustangs design-------its definetely going to be a challenge---but doable. I agreeb with ya bro----any one who pays 100k for a mercedes-----probably wouldn't flinch at dropping another 30k on a supercharger upgrade------thats just sick. . . but they can:bandit:

I'm going to have to yield to the 0-200mph race----only because you were dead right----I forgot that I posted that some aftermarket mods would give the Cobra the edge----but I realize that the Mercedes is capable stock wise-----so I do have to yield-----unfair mismatch:devil:

I just would like to say----that yes your cars are expensive---because they are of high quality------but I as ford owner and Cobra owner/lover------will say-----that our aftermarket allows us to build a car that can eat you up------and out handle you-----SVT may not want to put a car off the floor that can do so-----but thats not to bite the nose of of our aftermarket . . . anyone that does question this remark-------go to www.kennybrown.com--------because he has gotten every SVT Cobra within range of the world's top exotic cars-------and most importantly-----for a reasonable price--------not for 30k-60k prices that other non ford competitor tuners do . . . So I finish by saying AMG puts out what can be interpreted as a fully aftermarket car-----but does charge accordingly so for it------but us Ford aftermarket guys know-----we can take you out with our superior tuning equipment.

At last someone can have a mature argument on this forum. Hey robslob, i really enjoyed talking about both cars with u. I used to own a Cobra too, but u shouldnt be hard core SVT guy on this forum since its all automotive forums lol. There are some nice cars out there and i would give them some credit. I wont be comparing how slow is SL500 compared to my Camaro, u know what i mean. I love the SVT 03 and i wish that they were out before i bought my Camaro. and one more thing, anything can be made fast and handel well on turns with money. Hell on TV i saw a bus running 10's at 140's LOL. Anyways keep the good posts coming.

thats pretty frightening-----seeing a bus move that fast lol . . . I'm with you on the comment about making anything fast-----I don't really get that excited about the stock comparisons that car mags make-------because you and I both know-----that what comes off the floor-----in many cases----as a 99 & 01 Cobra-----can be tremendously improved upon. I wish I could get 100% on my 35K 01 Cobra purchase-----I've spent close to $21K on aftermarket parts for my 01 Cobra------which stock wise is a complete piece of crap as far as I'm concerned. I say that sternly-----when I see what the 03 comes with-----All i need now is to rebuild my rearend---and my Cobra----will proudly hold its head up high. Thats funny that you owned a 99 Cobra----what are your impresions of that car-----I doubt that they are slightly more positive than mine lol-----Hey Ls1----tell me the gap between the wheel well and the tires---wasn't absolutely rediculous on the 99 & 01 lol---when I first saw my car in person last year upon delivery-----I frinkin cringed :( Off the record---I think SVT is a little overrated-----I'm proud of what Ford Racing and Kenny Brown have done for the true Cobra lovers-----but SVT is just for promo---I would love to see though----just for 1 year----an SVT cobra------fully tuned on the supercharger-----with the ultimate Kenny Brown equipment----just to see what kind of numbers the car mags would find on their road test--------It will never happen-----but here's to dreaming. Oh and by the way-----If I had the money-----its a no brainer-----I too would be cruisin around in that SL55 AMG-----even I have to admit---that its damn sexy
:silly2:

your Z28 stock numbers sure are impressive
My stock Cobra posted 277rwhp & 279rwt
Pretty sad-----I wish Ford would use the FR500 heads on the Cobras---they are really free flowing-----and I'm sure you've heard-----the Mach 1 coming in at 320hp-----talk about slapping the 99 & 01 owners right in the face-----thank God for Pro Charger & Vortech----good talkin to ya bro

Believe me u dont want to hear about my experince with the 99 Cobra. Lets just say i drove it 5 months from 14months.

One night after drinking load of beer down in si nyc on the abandent highway were lots of kids chill i got to witness an m3 drivin by a kid i know race an old man(who looked about 40 or so) in transam ram-air model looked to be about 1998-2000.

I was thinking to myself this guy gonna smoke this kid, but in the end the m3 won hands down, slapped up the trans am. I couldent belive it from that day on i was [H]ard m3 fan.

I will never forget the guys face after it was over he couldent believe it.

Do not underestimate the power of M :D

well as far as the S4 goes against the E46 M3, it would be no test, maybe when the V8 one comes out, but for now, no. Me and my dad took down a local one in his fairly highlly modify E36 M3, but its only got about 300 to 310hp (my dads car) vs. the S4. I thought the S4 woulda smoked us, but no, it got pretty nasty after 2nd, we really started to pull. At first i thought it was an A4 (it was debadged so wasn';t sure from rear) but then my bro told me it was an S. So as far as the S4 vs. the new E46 , it would no near be a good race between the two. The biggest competitor for the M3 is the Z06 vette, which both of these cars are very close in both areas. My dads friend that owns a 2001 E46 SMG M3 went to the chevrolet dealership to test the Z06, he took it out, and said it wasn't as the magazines had made it seem, he said the handling was much much better for the M3. He told the guy that that let him test drive it, he didn't believe him, so he let him take his M3 for a spin, the guys final decision was that the M3 did in fact handle better. Don't get me wrong the Z06 is a pretty sweet car, the best handling yet. Just i'm not to thrilled it took Chevy 50 years to finally get the handling down. Overall the Z06 is the best competitor for the M3.

I don't think it took Chevy 50 years to get the handling down on the vette. I don't think you know car history at all----in fact, the M division has only really become a serious competitor against the vette IN PROBABLY THE LAST 7-8 years. The M3 is a great car---but every car magazine test drive---has shown performance numbers that exceed those of the M3--are they all wrong----highly unlikely---especially when you consider the consistency. The Z06 had ripped off a 3.9 0-60 with one magazine. That isn't happening with an M3---even with the most experienced driver. The 03 Cobra is faster than a M3 with a few inexpensive mods---it pratically whips it after the mods. The m3 is still chasing the Z06----it needs a power boost---and it probably will get it soon.

The m3 is still chasing the Z06----it needs a power boost---and it probably will get it soon.
The M3 is very unlikely to get a power boost because its as fast as BMW want it to be. If it did get one, it wouldnt be because of the Z06. The M3 isnt about straight line speed, its about agility through the turns, which the Z06 unfortunately cant match. What the M3CSL will do to the Z06 around a track is scary to think about, absolute carnage. Overall, the M3 isnt about numbers. Numbers dont say a lot about a car's character and true dynamic ability.

And im also gonna have to agree with AC Schnitzer M3, it did take Chevrolet a hell of a long time to tame the handling on the Corvette. Until the most recent 'vette, the handling was nothing to write home about, but admittedly many steps forward have been made. Nothing to touch 911's and M3's though.

cheers,
jay

the M division has only really become a serious competitor against the vette IN PROBABLY THE LAST 7-8 years

I almost forgot. Whereas in horsepower terms this is true (at least in the US, where you got the much less powerful 240bhp M3), The first M3 (E30, arguably the finest M) could have taught Chevy a thing or two about handling and balance in a car. Just because it was down on power it doesnt mean it shouldnt be taken into account. In my eyes, the E30 M3 was a far superior car to any Corvette of its time and for several years to come.

European and Japanese perforamce cars are about far more than drag times. Generally speaking, they will never be able to go quicker than an American V8 on a drag strip because they are not designed for it. However you put them on a track together and the big American V8 car will be left for dead.


Re: SL55 AMG.......just thought id add a little to this seeing as these are one of my main areas of expertise. The SL55 was put on a test track against a Caterham R300. The SL very nearly beat it. I think that says everything about this car.

your remark about the M3 CSL------has asolutely no merit whatsoever---please take it off the board---because you are being foolish. A Z06 can't run with an M3 handling wise???? Are u kidding me------the Z06 was just pitted against the 03 Viper------and boy did it ever make the Viper sweat. The M3 CSL is a good car------BUT PLEASE------don't dare say it outhandles a Z06-----because thats about the stupidest thing I've read on the posts------consider it has posted better slalom numbers than any M3---you should read up a little on the tests that the Z06 has been run on------you my friend----are pulling shit out of your ass.

unbelivable, these people come into a bmw section and start talkin about their pos american cars. first off, u have no right comin in here and talkin about m3's like uve driven them. (ohh yea, i forgot u took one by 3 cars...:eek: ) other than ur bs stories, i can prove to you that m3's can outhandle zo6's in the mountains. ive driven both cars, friends gotta 02, and yea, it might have more torque, and is a good half a sec faster on the 1/4, but dont even say it can outhandle. go spread ur stories on the american forums..cuz we, i kno i dont, dont wanna hear it!!
If your american POS cars had a life span of more than 5 years, you wouldnt have to rely on torque of 400+ ci engines, and didnt have to use fiberglass to make ur cars half the weight of normal cars and also half as safe as bikes ... and u could enjoy the luxury, styling, and class of a BMW.

Yes!! Everybody!!! Please read the stats on the Z06, with their amazing slalom times! I would encourage you to read the "tests that the Z06 has been run on". You should read the stats in R&T where the $18,000 Mini Cooper(product of BMW) has a better slalom time than the $49,505 Z06 and the same as the $67,900 Porsche Carrera. WOW! It seems like the Mini Cooper slaloms better than the McLaren F1 and the Lamborghini Diablo and Murcielago. Considering these tests and stat times, I guess everybody should just give up their dreams and hopes of buying nice expensive sports cars such as Porsches, BMWs, Lamborghinis, Ferraris and just stick to the Mini and the Z06 since they have better 'stats'.
Actaully, I would take the Mini over the Z06, since it has seating for 4, and its stereo system is different than the ones found in the Chevy Suburban, it handles better because of its better slalom time, for its size it's much safer than a car that has to be made out of fiberglass to reduce its weight. When you take all these facts into consideration, it seems as if the M3 would also be an option over the Z06. Seating for 4, luxury, style, and it's in the same class as the Z06 while having an I-6 and 333hp. So basically, BMW doesn't have to brag and boast about a V8 400+hp car to be put in a higher class of cars.

but I as ford owner and Cobra owner/lover------will say-----that our aftermarket allows us to build a car that can eat you up------and out handle you

Surprising that only Ford has this amazing aftermarket scene. Speaking of aftermarket, I know that the Subaru WRX with about $10,000 in mods can "eat up and out handle" any Z06/Cobra, while still being in a lower price range, while still being able to handle 'unsafe' road conditions. By spending about $25k on a WRX you'll have monster that no Z06/Cobra/Focus/Taurus/Impala or whatever other american car you want to throw at it can touch, in both straight races and on a track, while being a 4 cylinder AWD car. My point isn't to illustrate the superior powers of the WRX, but to show that your idea of throwing mods and comparing a car based on the extent it can be modified makes no sense. If you want to talk about modding a car, I can easily show you, as I just did how a H4 can devour any of your V8s and such. But even with $100k invested in any of these cars, it still won't match what you get when you buy an M3.

When comparing cars, the M3 has it all, and the Z06 barely has it. A car strictly built on performance and its aftermarket products do seem appealing. But most people like to be able to drive around in more than performance, and they also like to feel comfortable in their cars while enjoying their ride and not having to worry about the maintenance of their cars every year. Oh...and FYI, putting money and mods aside, it's pretty amazing to discover what the M3 is capable of when BMW does put a V8 in there.

you can't compare the wrx & mini cooper----to the Z06----you know why shit head----they are practically fucken hatchbacks-----not even weighing close to 3,000 lbs. You guys want to shoot down the Z06---but you don't no shit about cars. In fact----to show your stupidity---In my next post----I am going straight to the evidence sheets so you can see how car experts laugh at your own rediculous posts. To car a hatchback----with less weight, smaller size, and in some cases, better HP to weight ratios----is down right stupid when we are talking about a Z06 vs. an M3. And who ever made this bull shit call about the 25K on a WRX----an 03 Cobra with just $800 in mods-----gets it to its maximum PSI at 15psi---and makes over 500rwhp nad 500rwt---don't be such a magazine racer----the cobra doesn't need $25K in mods-----to beat up on practically any car under $100K------that including the Z06------what you never heard of Kenny Brown Cobras--------modded for $10K or less------than can piss on any V-8 out there -------the M3 is not a better performing car than the M3------and my next post won't include my opinion bullshit----llike you have posted--it will be fact. LASTLY, I CAN GO ON ANY THREAD---YOU FUCKEN LEFT WING COMMIE BASTARD------ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU DECIDE WHO CAN POST OR NOT POST-----GO FUCKYOURSELF YOU RETARD----YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT CARS-----AND YOU'VE PROVED IT BY THE BULLSHIT YOU POSTED------YOU SOUND LIKE A LITTLE FUCKIN BABY-----WITH YOUR MINI COOPER BULLSHIT------WHAT THE FUCK IS A MINI COOPER?????? HUH------YOU TALK ABOUT THAT TIN CAN LIKE IT HAS SUPERCAR STATUS OR SOMETHING-----JERKOFF!:devil:

The question what most of you have to ask yourselfs is do i want a chevy? or do i want a bimmmmer? and who ever picks the chevy is a retard.

hey robslob, go home hick!!...nobody wants you here. we are interested in cars, not shit wrapped with fiberglass. please dont talk when u dont kno shit. your talkin as if you were tiff needles. your prolly just a little 16yr shit from south dakota or something. fuck your cobras, ur vettes, and ur v8's. and what "BOV" said was soooooo true. do you kno what happens when u put a v8 in an m3??? yea so dont fuckin talk bitch!!
and here are ur stupid little smiles..:flipa: :finger:

I don't know sh*t about cars? Opinion Bullsh*t? Well until you find your facts on the Z06, I'll show YOU some facts.

they are practically fucken hatchbacks-----not even weighing close to 3,000 lbs.

#1. The WRX also comes in a sedan.
#2. According to Subaru.com, the Sedan weighs 3080 lbs. with a manual transmission, and 3140 lbs. with an automatic transmission.
The wagon weighs 3165 lbs. manual, and 3220 lbs. automatic.

Those #s are pretty damn close to 3000 lbs. Especially a manual sedan which is the one i was talking about. Maybe the people at Subaru are sh*theads, and they don't know what they're talking about and don't know sh*t about cars compared to you. But by taking one sentence of yours, I proved how little YOU know about cars when you claim to know so much. I guess I showed my stupidity once again.

And you keep talkin about this Kenny Brown performance like its god or something. Let me tell you about a little company called TurboXS that modifies WRXs. They did the quarter mile in 11.96 with under $5K in mods($4976 to be exact). 11.96 with $4976 (http://www.turboxs.com/11%20Second%20WRX.htm) So i guess it qualifies as "modding under $10k". Take a look at that before calling BS. And to give you a little more information, this car runs at over 18psi. Can it be?? Is it possible to spend $30k total and have a car that is under 400hp and is faster and more reliable than the Z06?? I guess it is. But as I said before, I didn't want to turn this into an argument about WRXs and Minis. Just wanted to show you your claims for aftermarket prodcuts doesn't matter, because there is always something better and something faster, and I find it surprising that a Subaru can be modified to take V8 Z06s and Cobras.

And you're telling me not to be such a magazine racer? I can pick out maybe 3 times where you talked about magazines and their stats, and I did it to show you how much of a Magazine reader you are. You constantly keep referring to stats and performance test. To tell you the truth, they don't mean anything. If a magazine says a Kia is better than a Ferrari and you going to be convinced that you should get a Kia over a Ferrari? It sounds as if you are that narrow-minded and might actaully contemplate doing something like that. So the Z06 is faster. What else? Name 1 other thing that you can say about that car? Name 1 other reason anybody would take a Z06 over an M3. Just because it posts such high slalom speed doesn't mean it handles better. And i can pick out a handful of people I know with BMWs with over 150,000 miles on them still running with no problems. Show me one Chevy or Ford that can match that. When you talk about buying a car it's not just about speed. If all anybody cared about is speed, there are much cheaper alternatvies than getting a Z06 or a Cobra or an M3(read above). So maybe when you grow up and realize speed isn't everything, and that people that have Class are the ones who buy M3s over Z06s, you should come back and talk in a BMW forum. Until then, maybe you should go kiss Kenny Brown's ass some more. :flipa:

Robslob, instead of coming in here calling people idiots and insulting everyone while not even considering what they post, try using your head a little bit and maybe, just maybe, try not to be such a dick.
a 911 has better handling than a Z06, as does an M3, and an M3 CSL would absolutely mutilate it. Try to get the power issue out of your head, and your remark about hatchbacks is idiotic. WHat does weight have to do with anything?
I agree with the previous post, i think you are a 16 yr old spotty prick who likes talking shit. this time my friend, YOU are pulling shit out of YOUR ass

The question what most of you have to ask yourselfs is do i want a chevy? or do i want a bimmmmer? and who ever picks the chevy is a retard
I couldnt agree more. Which leads me to the following conclusion
Rob, dont be a f*cking retard

Best wishes :finger:
jay

couldnt have said that better jay..

cheers..lol

Still looking for facts???

Here is a fact...
Fact: Kenny Brown likes it in the Ass!!

Oh and while we're on the topic of how great vettes and all that....they still use 50 year old technology. Who the hell uses pushrods on their engines anymore!? It's the 21st centruy and they're still using 1960's technology. A 5.7 liter engine and they make 350hp stock...that my friends is not efficient at all. 3.3 liters and you get 333hp from an M3...Yeah you would need a blower to get your rustang to 500hp because your engine isn't efficient enough to do it with all motor. Push a SC on a M3 and run 15psi(if that's even possible) and see what would happen.

Ever seen a Civic SI (1.6 liter Vetec) run away from a Viper? I have...the Civic was all motor by the way:devil:

Marvelous post. Very well said. Couldnt match my thoughts any more. Its 343 bhp from an M3 btw :D

I modded my '00 S4 with Chip = $500.00, DP's = $1600.00

Car cost me $41K stock. Do the math and that's $43,100K. My car puts out 349HP and I'm pretty even with M3's on the Highway. Raced one last week and had a slight edge on him.

For $43K I don't think the M3 compares. I'll say this though, the M3 is the ultimate Chick magnet....lucky for me I don't have to worry about that!

Please no flames, I'm just stating a fact.

How much is a stock M3 in the US?

It's hard to find one for less than $55-$57K USD. What's the price across the pond?

The M3 targets the RS4, not the S4.
On the other hand, the new S4 can keep up with the M5.

Originally posted by Deakins
The M3 targets the RS4, not the S4.
On the other hand, the new S4 can keep up with the M5.

The new S4 is slower than an M5.
60 less hp, nearly as much weight, and the parasitic losses of an awd system = slower.

An M3 over here is about £40k.
The M3 targets the RS4, not the S4.
I dont see the RS4 as a rival for the M3. Theyre completely different cars
On the other hand, the new S4 can keep up with the M5.
Even if it did, it doesnt make them competitors IMO. The M5 is a size up

M3 and S4 are competitors. The M3 was built with the S4 in mind. The previous generation was in direct competition to the S4.

The problem now is that in stock form, the B5 S4 is no mathc for the current M3. It's not that they aren't competitors, it's that the M3 is so much better in stock form.

However, as my previous post, for a few bucks anyone can take a B5 S4 and match up with a new M3, and still save about $14K USD. I don't know about you, but I would consider that point when buying an M3. Therefore it is competition.

The M3 was built with the S4 in mind
With all respect, that should be the other way around. :D

Ok, if you spend a couple grand on the the S4 it will match the M3 on a straight. But its more difficult (and therefore expensive) to get it to handle like an M3. Thats mainly where the difference in price comes from, the M3 is much more entertaining to drive.