M3 Opponents

Let me post a quick follow-up.

For a little less than $37,000 (including title, tax, registration, and everything else), I got the following:


10-year award winning engine series VQ. The Z has VQ35DE that outputs 287hp.
18 inch high quality wheels
electronic brakeforce distribution
vehicle dynamic control
Limited slip diffs
carbon fiber drive shaft, which is not only light, it also has a safety advantage of taking on the shock in case of a frontal wreck stopping the engine way before it gets to the cockpit
extremely quality leather bucketseats
all the electronic amenities you need (anti fogging side view mirrors, dimming rear view mirror, electronic seat adjustments, etc.
front and rear strut bars that seems to do wonders for vehicle stability - you got to drive it to feel it.
53:47 weight distribution which is apparently better than pure 50:50 because weight transfer during breaking (and cornering) will lead to 50:50.
considerable amount of support under the car for further stability, according to a professional Japanese tech, the Z has the biggest stabilizers that he has seen on a mass production car.


I will stop here for now :)

I do not see how you can say that your money is better spent buying a "German" quality car over a Japanese one
I was just simply stating for my personal use, and my own money. I wasn't saying a german car is better than a japanese one. I was just saying that I prefer the BMW over a Honda, Nissan, etc. I hope this clears things up.:)

oh I understand that that is your opinion, I am just trying to figure out why you prefer the German cars to Japanese.

Well I just do. I guess the easiest way to explain it, is it's kind of like why some people love Chevy and hate Ford and vice versa. I like german cars, their design and comfort better than japanese cars. I guess there's no way to factually prove my position. Its just what I like and dislike.

Have you driven the Z?

You should give it a try, just out of curiousity's sake.

The 6 speed short throw shifter is very nice!

No, I haven't, but I'd like to sometime. I bet its a fun car to drive. Of course I've still got about 2 years left of college and I don't want to start test driving anything b/c then I'll want a new car even more. And I don't think my parents would like me selling my truck and getting a bank loan to get a new car that I don't need, haha.

carbon fiber drive shaft, which is not only light, it also has a safety advantage of taking on the shock in case of a frontal wreck stopping the engine way before it gets to the cockpit

Making the drive shaft out of carbon will make it more rigid, it will snap the U-joint and the driver is gonna get a belly full of transmission output shaft. :D

carbon fiber disintegrates when faced with any direct blow. Its not a metal driveshaft-----its CARBON FIBER. Carbon fiber is the way to go----most carbon fiber driveshafts can take up to 3,500 lbs of torque, additionally they are almost vibration free, allow the rear tires to hook better because of its torsional strength, limit the shock to your tranny-----and lastly are 100% safer and better than any metal driveshaft. You really are clueless RINGO :bloated:

Vortech, appreciate your post :)

Carbon Fiber drive shafts also let your engine wind up quicker due to the lower weight. It would have similiar effects as the light weight flywheels. The carbon fiber driveshaft results in a lower rotational mass so the engine does not work as hard to turn the driveshaft. This also means you will get more rear wheel horsepower compared to someone using a metal one.

How about vortech, you just don't come back to this Thread, why don't you go over to the Ford one

Originally posted by AC Schnitzer M3
How about vortech, you just don't come back to this Thread, why don't you go over to the Ford one

That is just rude... just because vortech knows so much technical info?
Isn't that partially why you visit AF?

Originally posted by vortech
carbon fiber disintegrates when faced with any direct blow. Its not a metal driveshaft-----its CARBON FIBER. Carbon fiber is the way to go----most carbon fiber driveshafts can take up to 3,500 lbs of torque, additionally they are almost vibration free, allow the rear tires to hook better because of its torsional strength, limit the shock to your tranny-----and lastly are 100% safer and better than any metal driveshaft. You really are clueless RINGO :bloated:


Igor said they stop the engine way before it gets to the cockpit, and you say they disintegrate on impact. So which one of you two is clueless?:bloated: Or maybe you're the one not following along with your finger! :flipa:

That is just rude... just because vortech knows so much technical info?
True, but its pretty rude that Vortech constantly tells people how clueless they are. Not everyone knows everything about cars and he shouldn't downgrade people just b/c they don't know as much as he does. We're all here to learn things we may not already know.

Originally posted by igor@af
oh I understand that that is your opinion, I am just trying to figure out why you prefer the German cars to Japanese.

hm..it may be the type of feel to the car as well;
Traditionally, German cars have specialized making supreme touring sedans and coupes. Even the luxury brands of Japanese automakers [and even American manufacturers] have said European bred sport suspension, European comfort, etc.. No doubt they are comparing themselves to the Mercs and the BMWs.

Also, my driving instructor said German cars have more of a stiff feeling to them; where as Japanese cars are softer, and more easy to drive. I'm not sure on this point, but I'm pretty sure about my previous point.

Originally posted by VINNIE_MINI


no way, let them all com, exept the turbo and the gt3, no problem to beat them!!

I have raced my 996 against 4 M3's and won every time.
Initial pull is dead even. After about 20 meters there is no contest.
The 996 pulls harder and launches quicker than an M3.

Three factors are what contribute.
M3 is heavier
996 has all its weight over the rear axel.
The only time a 996 loses is by driver error or inexperience. Tip's are a shade slower too.

My only mods are exhaust, springs, filter, and headers.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/944488mycar.jpg:rolleyes:

480 HP Supercharged
http://www.g-power.de/news/pics/pressa.jpg

Ok jeru? I'm sure it could considering i'm sure its much lighter and has more HP so yeah.

Jeru,

I wish I had a Porsche and a Ferrari.
We're not worthy
We're not worthy

Your Porsche is Awesome(one of my dream cars).
Got any good jobs that pay more than 100,000 a year.
You are the MAN!

Originally posted by Ringo

Igor said they stop the engine way before it gets to the cockpit, and you say they disintegrate on impact. So which one of you two is clueless?:bloated: Or maybe you're the one not following along with your finger! :flipa:

I don't understand what your deal is, but you have asked for it -

Read what you just posted and try to figure out if both of us, me AND vortech could be correct......it's called physics.

Upon impact with "something" the engine will stop but the cockpit will want to keep going forward into the engine, at which point the carbon fiber drive shaft will hit the engine and take away part of the impact, making the cockpit stop over a longer period of time, which means the cockpit will be hit by a much smaller force.

You want to know what my deal is? " You say: "I was going to get an M3 but I got a 350Z instead" I do not believe you would ever buy an M3, you obviously have Nissans in your dreams at night. If it were not for BMW, Nissan would not know who to copy their technology from and the Mustang would still be crawling around on a live axle. If that 350Z cost $45,000 nobody would buy it and they definitely would not buy a Mustang for that much money either. The reality is that BMWs are safer than any Japanese car. BMW has done so much development on suspension, safety, design, and engine technology. If BMW was just to sit back and wait for their competitor to design and develop new cars so they could copy them, I am sure they could sell a car at a cheap price and just “throw in” some little gadgets to lure the undecided.
You can ban me if you want, but you would be taking away my freedom of speech.

You are a funny man. I will stop here for the following reason:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/kris/kris/+junk/arguing.jpg

I only call people clueless--when they try to pass off a fact on their post as being----a FACT.

BMW may have what appears to be very advanced technology----but keep in mind----and if you disagree with this----then you are simply just dumb---but there is so much spying from car companies as well as duplication of parts from other cars that are just about identical---that its so hard to label one company as being more innovative than another. Just like Dodge built a monster performance vehicle in the Viper----Ford can do the same with many of its cars. I think some of you forget----that General Motors----Is essentially owned by Ford. Ford technology is not begind any competitor----its just as advanced----we may not be seeing it full throttle in its cars----but that doesn't mean its not available. Thats like saying a country that has the means of making a nuclear weapon ------ doesn't have one----because they haven't used one. Its very silly to think that only European car makers no how to make a great car----and while some of you haven't made that statement verbatim----you implied it with your condescending remarks. The guy spoke of the Griggs suspension-----was totally way off base thinking that a foxbody stang and SN95 have the same suspension mechanics with an aftermarket unit. And that is simply a 100% without a doubt UNTRUTH. Making up bullshit like that----isn't right-----and AC ShitHead----we are all free to roam any board. If you don't like my posts------don't provide a rebuttal.

I understand that car companies are constantly spying on each other and stealing secrets. I can think of one great secret I do not believe has left europe yet because the american and japanese manufacturers do not want to spend the extra money. How about the fact that when most Mercedes or BMWs get in a front impact collision the motor actually drops down on rails below the car to avoid it ending up in your lap. Also for you two to state that the carbon fiber drivesahft is going to help save you during a crash is just plain stupid. It does not take that much force to break a steel driveshaft. I know because I have gone through a couple in the past. You are really trying to get one over on us if you seriously are trying to tell us that Fords crash test better than BMW's.
GO to crashtest.com and take a look at lets say the 01-03 mustang in the deathrate category it was rated POOOOOR! The BMW 540 I drive was rated Excellent. There are three steps in between poor and excellent which means in the mustang you and your loved ones will most likely die while me and my family will most likely live. This is because the mustang has 2 airbags and the 540I has 9 airbags. This is one reason why somebody would spend what you consider to be a lot of money on a Luxery Sedan. My family is worth it is Yours? And I see that your response will be we were talking about the M3 not the 540.
Well the M3 has 6 airbags,
Dynamic stability control,
dynamic brake control,
auto leveling xenon headlights,
retractable headlight washers,
heated mirrors and washer jets,
an am-fm CD with 10 speakers and two subwoofers,
8-way power seats with thigh support and three memory positions which control the seats and mirrors,
the passenger side mirror tilts down when in reverse to avoid scraping your rims on the curb,
heated seats,
When you unlock the car with the button on the key the seat automatically sets to that drivers position,
the rear view mirror auto dims,
the glovebox has a rechargable flashlight and port for recharge built in,
rain sensing windshield wipers,
on board navigation system,
a crash sensor which automatically turns on hazard and interior lights and unlocks the doors.

These are reasons people buy better cars. These are the reasons they cost more money. How many of these features does your mustang offer? I would say none. Get a life their is no comparision between the ford mustang and the BMW M3. And lets just bring the girly factor into the mix. I can not tell you how many times women sitting in their boyfriends american crap are checking me out at the stoplights.

And Igor in regards to your post about disabled people and the special olympics you are a childish, ignorant, and need to grow the fuck up! It is not their faults they are not like you and I. And if I ran into you on the street it would not be your fault either.

I never said squat about a stang in a crash test. Never spoke of that period. The fact is a carbon fiber driveshaft as way more safe than a steel or aluminum one. Thats not even debatable. If you have a metal driveshaft or aluminum one---you better install a driveshaft safety loop. Because the bottom line is----in a mustang----if you get in a high impact front collision-----the driveshaft has a very strong likelihood that its going to shoot up through the cabin like a spike with unbelievable force. Plenty of guys have been killed before. And thats one of the main reasons why 5.0 drag racers in the NHRA have to have a driveshaft safety loop. Mustang competitors have been killed and seriously injured. With a carbon fiber driveshaft----it will disintegrate. You can check that out with the top company who makes it, PST. I've got one on my vehicle----and its amazing how my beefy T45 tranny----doesn't vibrate at all when running through any of the gears. Even makes the shifts unbelievably smooth. Manufacturers don't like using them---because they are very expensive to manufacturer---and you do have bad roads in every state-----and what I mean by this--is simply----if some how you bottom out or pass over an object in the road that is bulging out----the driveshaft will shatter if it makes contact. But that thing will not go through a car's cabin and injure the driver. Thats totally untrue. The 5 series is probably the best all around sedan outhere. The 3 series even rivals the 5 series---especially when you look at the bang for the buck price. Listen, I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone. I like bimmers---and love the M3 and M5. But I only comment on things that I know. And I know about mustang technology---shit, I've got Kenny Brown parts all over my stang. And trust me-----through the slalom or winding roads----my stang can mimic any Viper. You may not believe it-----but there are plenty of stang owners----who would not hesitate to agree with me. The work wasn't cheap----but Kenny Brown is the upmost expert on stang suspension and IRS research. Thats all he does----is spend time and money on researching ways to make any stang kick ass. Kenny Brown even has worked with the SVT team----and in 2006, according to the last rumor at blue oval news.com----the 2006 cobra will have monster performance----and it will coincide with the release of the 2006 Z06. The upcoming GT40, if it lives up to its billing and I think it will since its carrying a $125K price tag---will show the autoworld-----what the Ford SVT division has waiting in the wings.

Does anyone know how Lincoln built the Lincoln LS, they literally up in grand haven michigan, took apart the BMW 540i and based everything on that. So lets not get into this bs about BMW copying all these american companies. If it wasn't for the 540 thered be to LS, although the 540 could still put a beating on an LS. I do like most LS styling.

Vortech,

I am sure your car is very fast and handles very well. I am also sure that you are very proud of the car you have spent alot of money and time on. In regards to the driveshaft arguement I was under the impression that somebody was trying to state that having a carbon fiber driveshaft is going to keep your cabin from compacting into the engine. Which is crazy. I due agree that carbon fiber is a much better product than steel and aluminum due to the tensile strength, weight, and perfect balance. I was not aware that mustangs had problems with driveshafts coming up through the car. I thought driveshaft safety loops were only used on big offroad trucks. I used to have them on my 1976 Bronco 490HP custom built 302.

Why Igor, I'm surprised at you. You would EXPLOIT A MENTALLY CHALLENGED MINOR BY POSTING HIS IMAGE IN A PUBLIC INTERNET SITE just to offend me. Well sorry because that does not hurt me, and actually reinforces my opinion of you. You attacked me personally with your sissy approach, but the fact of the matter is that I drive a 20 year old BMW with 300,000 miles and I still have more class than you driving your brand new, overpriced "silhouette of a Porsche".

I just don't understand the mentality of some people who post on the internet. They get personally offended when talking about CARS, and have the whole "my car is the best in the world" thinking pattern going.

The Z is definately not the best car to have in the whole wide world, but I think it was a very good deal at $37k for everything that it offers, and since it is so close in pretty much every category in comparison with the M3, I decided to save myself some money.

:)

I regret how this has come out, as I first posted in this topic to get a debate going in comparing the 350Z and M3. But then, some people decided to make very opinionated and biased statements. This is very much like discussing politics, no one here will be able to convince anyone of anything, but instead people will get pissed (look at yourself, working so hard to make me look inferior...).

So, enjoy your fine car and live a happy life!