B20 myths.

You wont feel the true potential for that motor until you get a shorter geared tranny. Fork out the bucks.

BTW, screw the local guys. Mad Props. :smokin:


Haha, thanks :) True about the Tranny..I just need a running motor for now! But hey...go easy on me, after spending money on the b20 with the JUN head and JDM interior...a high school senior like Me...may be a lil poor. :grinno: Hey, anyone need GSR wheels? :) Just looked at em again today and realized they're ugly -98 GSR (swirlies).

<3

ive been doing alot of research on all kinds of swaps, and im mainly focused on the b20 swap into my car in the future, anyway i was jus wondering if anyone knew the R/S ratio on a stock b20b or z is?

same here, i cant find the r/s ratio of a b20 anywhere

ENGINE HP - B20B4
SIZE – 1973cc, engine size
DECK - 8.347in, deck height
BORE - 3.307in, standard engine bore
STRK - 3.504in, engine stroke
ROD - 5.394 in, engine rod length center to center
C-H - 1.181in, compression height of piston
PIN – 21mm, wrist pin outside diameter
H-D – 45cc, cylinder head volume
BEW - .935in, connecting rod big end width
BEB – 1.89in, connecting rod big end housing bore diameter
R/S - 1.54in, rod to stroke ratio
VA – 25deg, valve angles
VS – 31mm/28mm, valve sizes intake/exhaust diameter
D-S – D, double overhead cam
V-N – N, non v-tec
MODEL – 97-98 CRV

:smokin:

[QUOTE=kris]
15- Yes, the B20 sleaves are weak, if you put any piston in there besides a stock compression.
16- Yes, if you want to build a high compression b20/vtec, you will need to get the block resleaved.
[QUOTE]

what disadvantage does the b20 sleave give? and can it be fixed?

The sleaves crack under high compression. You can resleave them to fix this problem.

1.54 rod stroke ratio?.....Correct me if im wrong but that is kinda bad, how does one get the ration higher?

dont know man we provided you the info that you wanted....now your complaining...lol

damn right im complaining :screwy:

i have a gsr and going b20/vtec, do i keep the gsr block? would the b20 block blow on me? what does it take to blow the b20? sell the b18c1 block and rebuild b20 if it blows?

high compression is what takes to blow a b20(stock), id say do what you want to, either sell the gsr block and build the b20 one or say screw b20 and build up your GSR

my boy has a b20 turbo in his crx.
had the block resleeved, but in ne pistons, h-bems, etc.
add turbo.

poof! low 12 second crx :)

i which it was like "PooF!" for a low 12 honda :rolleyes:

how does one get the ration higher?
Put a 1.7 GSR crank in it, but then it essentially wont be a B20.

i have a gsr and going b20/vtec, do i keep the gsr block?
You could keep the gsr block and punch it out to 2 liters and have a nice b20vtec.
would the b20 block blow on me? what does it take to blow the b20?
If abused, yes I am sure that it will not last long.
sell the b18c1 block and rebuild b20 if it blows?
You could build each one to be just as capable as the next. The gsr block can handle more in stock form, but you could blow a gsr block too. I say take the gsr motor to its fullest potential and if/when it blows up, build it.

If you had two blocks side by side, a b20 and a gsr, and both were sleeved to 84mm, then the only differences in those two blocks would be the little stamp on the block.

Im glad to see people on this site not putting down b20's, its a nice change from other forums:) The b20 even in stock form is a bad ass motor, I was running consistant 14.3 with mine, it was stock other than using oem 93 integra LS cams (slightly more aggressive) intake, chip, and no exhaust. I was running mine obd-0. Also good to see that somebody else in this world knows that a stock B20, even the low compression b20b, even with an LS tranny, will OWN a stock b16 with short gears (S1, J1, Y1). If I was running b20z compression ratio with a y1 tranny I know I could have hit 13's... I really miss that engine, need to start putting one together

Also good to see that somebody else in this world knows that a stock B20, even the low compression b20b, even with an LS tranny, will OWN a stock b16 with short gears (S1, J1, Y1).
No, it will not, not without a good driver. B16A's in low level full interior hatchs with bolt ons and a good driver have run high 13's low 14's. It will come down to who has the better traction/launch and can get through the gears faster, not to mention keeping a B16A in the powerband isn't real hard. Don't get me wrong, I like the B20B/Z great motor and they go cheap so it leaves a lot of cash left over to mod them. But some of you are talking like it's going to put bus lengths between on a B16, and it's not, like I said before, it is going to come down to driver.

Never said a b20 was better than every b16 in the world, I am only saying that I have YET to see a stock b16 or a b16 with comperable mods that I had run a better time than me (14.3) And they have a short geared bad ass tranny to their advantage... b16a's are great motors, and I realize they have great potential etc, but stock vs stock I prefer a b20 all day long wether its at the track or daily driving. Ever seen a stock b16a that can spin the tires into 4th gear? Not that this means its going to be a faster car, but it does mean that this engine makes torque that b16a's can only have wet dreams about. How bout a 2.23 60ft, on street tires, launching @ 2,200 rpm? Most honda engines would fall on their tits if you launched them @ 2,200. As a matter of fact, a b20 makes more torque @ 2,200 rpm than a b16a makes at PEAK! I think about it like this...
b20b/z: fatty torque curve(more of a straight line) from 2,500-7,000
b16a: lots of horsepower from 5-8,000 rpm

In my eyes the b16a in stock form is a one trick pony, it goes really good from 5-8k rpm. I've been trying to figure out for years why people have such a hard on for b16a's

haha amen brotha i building my b2o right now b16 is over rated just like the z3 fenders...lol

ill go with the b20....i want more tq! but my ls outta do nicely for now

Well, you have fun, it's obvious you have never driven a B16A as it has a nice bit of power even below 5000rpms. Maybe mine is a weird one. And I can live with only chirping through third.

hey i found somebody whos selling a b20b motor and he said just to tell him what kinda tranny i would be using and he would send me axles he said it has 30 to 48 thousand miles on it for 450$. so my qeustion is that worth it? and what else would i need to make it work in a 91 civic si. With and intake exhaust and header im geussing id be maby running low 15's (please correct me if im wrong). your help would be greatly appreciated! thanx

which of the b20's is vtec?

i was told that none of the 2 liter CRV engines came with vtec

There is no vtec B20, but people make them all the time.

so you take the bottom end of a b20 and put a vtec head or something?

so you take the bottom end of a b20 and put a vtec head or something?
Yeah, try reading the first few posts.

I have found quite a few different B16's out there. Some that are not as strong as others, others that amaze me. But overall, I am seeing more and more "weaker" 1st gen B16's.

Overall, if it came down to me choosing between a B20, and a B16A. I would choose the B20 again, hands down. I was very impressed with what they can do.

Also, you cannot compare time slips with people on a worldwide forum. There are so many enviromental factors that take into play. Elevation, RH, etc. I could drive the shit out of my B20, not vtec hatch all day at the track, and not break into the 14's/ Yet I take a trip up to Washington, and the time dropped into the mid 14's. I sure as hell didnt learn to drive any better between that 10 hour drive.

1.54 rod stroke ratio?.....Correct me if im wrong but that is kinda bad, how does one get the ration higher?


Bore it out and the r&s will turn out better. A buddie of mine put a B16 crank and rods and a lot of machine shop work into his B20 and it comes out to a 2.2 w/ r&s of a B16. he can rev to 12 grand before the motor started testing for stress equal to 9 grrand on a B16

Bore it out and the r&s will turn out better
whered u get that from? cylinder bore has nothing to do with r/s ratio. now i can see the r/s with a b16 crank and rods but not only by boring it out. also it would have to be bored/sleeved fairly large to get 2.2 outta a b16 stroke.

what is the best head to put on a B20???? i heard a b16 head is better then a GsR heaD but what about a Type R or Prelude Vtec head????

prelude head wont fit on a b series engine.

so givin 3 crxs, 1 with b16, other with b18 and the other with b20. it will pretty much be a drivers race?

what about a b16 tranny to an ls?

O.K. I'm not putting down the B20 at all.... They are good JDM's are good but I have heard that the USDM B20's compression is not as good as the JDM's. If you look at the honda tunning AWD integra project they were running a B20/VTec and they also stated the same... JDM B20's are better. Now as far as B20's beating B16... I don't know what B16's you guys run but I have a B16 in my EF and have yet to loose to a B20. Last one I ran was a B20 in a EG HB and I'm not one of those EF's that are gutted or a bunch of weight BS. DRIVER...... driver makes a big difference. A two of my other friends are running B16's in EG's and both have also beaten B20's. Until I see the point especially converting over intake mani.'s and such I'll stick with B16's... heck I'll put my old JDM DOHC turbo ZC at 2 PSI against a B20. B20/VTec on the other hand I can't speak for since I have only heard the myths and have yet to race one or drive one. A kid at the local races where I'm at is running a Built B20/VTec running TEC 3 and I hear it goes but it's just came out last week and have yet to see it run.

Oh and you can run any B series trans EXCEPT the CR-V trans... DUH but I just had to put that in. Cable hydro LS B16 B18 not difference just if you run a cable in a hydro car or a hydro in a cable car you need to buy the converter from HASport.

1.54 rod stroke ratio?.....Correct me if im wrong but that is kinda bad, how does one get the ration higher?


you could get a b16a crank and that'll make it a near perfect 1.77:1.... however you lose .3L......... question is spin to 10k or 7.5k heh. if you could get 130fp/tq at 10k rpm that'd be almost 250hp... just some food for thought hehe.

you could get a b16a crank and that'll make it a near perfect 1.77:1.... however you lose .3L......... question is spin to 10k or 7.5k heh. if you could get 130fp/tq at 10k rpm that'd be almost 250hp... just some food for thought hehe


are you speaking of experience or just what you have heard. do you have any info on this or any links to sites? are u talking about a b16 crank in a b20 block?? there is no way the rods or the head would take that kinda rpms without some serious modifications. but that is some really intersting info.

you could get a b16a crank and that'll make it a near perfect 1.77:1.... however you lose .3L......... question is spin to 10k or 7.5k heh. if you could get 130fp/tq at 10k rpm that'd be almost 250hp... just some food for thought hehe


are you speaking of experience or just what you have heard. do you have any info on this or any links to sites? are u talking about a b16 crank in a b20 block?? there is no way the rods or the head would take that kinda rpms without some serious modifications. but that is some really intersting info.

a b16a crank WILL fit into a b20 block with no problems watsoever. they're the same block, except the bore on the b20 is 84 and the bore on the b16 is 81, and the crank is different. the only difference between a b20 and a b16 is the stroke (because the cranks are different). the b18/20 stroke is 89 and the b16 stroke is 77.4

84*84*89*3.1416 = 1972874.5344 (ie 2.0L)...
81*81*89*3.1416 = 1834471.3464 (ie 1.8L)...
81*81*77.4*3.1416 = 1595371.71024 (ie 1.6L)...


ok... so now for clearance...

deck height on a b20 = 211.84 mm
rod height on a b20 = 137mm
b20 piston comp height = 29.59
b20 piston dome height = .89mm
deck clearance = .76mm

do the math...

Block Deck Height = (Stroke/2) + Rod Length + Compression Height + Stock Deck Clearance

so.... (77.4/2) + 137 + (29.59+.89) + .76 = 206.94 which is less tahn 211.8 .. so it'll all fit.

just an fyi, i got most of this off the team-integra website (www.team-integra.net)... its a good site, but you have to register. here's a quote off an article there...




If you don't have your heart set on more displacement, the permutations and combinations are numerous. You just need to make sure the rods fit the piston and the crank, check that everything will fit in the deck height of the block you choose, and calculate the resultant displacement and rod ratio. As a popular recent example, many people try a B16A crank (77.4 mm) with LS rods (137 mm rod length) in a CRV block (84.5 mm bore when honed) to give 1736 cc, an oversquare layout, and a 1.77 rod ratio. You essentially build a 1.7 L Civic Type R Plus engine in your LS Integra that can rev like a bike.




add a b16 head to that.... oh my gosh, talk about a fun engine!!!

EDIT: on the 250hp thing... IF you're engine is pulling 130 lbs of torque at 10k rpm.... (130*10000)/5252 = 247.5hp... thats where i got that, it was all theoretical. Also... you would probably wanna replace the internals if you wanted it to last long....

ALL B20B's have the same compression, regardless if they are JDM, or USDM motors. B20Z's are the higher compression motor, which are rarer, and cost more to get.

But if you end up resleaving, and stuffing new pistons in. Go with the B20B, its still cheaper.

ALL B20B's have the same compression, regardless if they are JDM, or USDM motors. B20Z's are the higher compression motor, which are rarer, and cost more to get.

But if you end up resleaving, and stuffing new pistons in. Go with the B20B, its still cheaper.

its pointless to get the Z if you're rebuilding, for sure. more $ for crap you're gonna throw aawy.

Ok, reading all the posts, I have a few questions about the B20.

Would you aim for more RPM's, hence a near perfect R/S Ratio because more RPM's is more work done, right? Would that mean we all should be aiming for a motor that can rev higher because there will be more power gains? I.E. More torque and horsepower at 10k than 5k?

How would setting up a turbo to boost at 5k compair to 10k? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

Ok, reading all the posts, I have a few questions about the B20.

Would you aim for more RPM's, hence a near perfect R/S Ratio because more RPM's is more work done, right? Would that mean we all should be aiming for a motor that can rev higher because there will be more power gains? I.E. More torque and horsepower at 10k than 5k?

How would setting up a turbo to boost at 5k compair to 10k? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

if you're gonna boost get as close to 1.75:1 rs ratio as possible (less stress on the cylinders).... all motor keep the b20 crank. it would be hella cool having an engine that made power through 10k rpm, but the power band would be too narrow to use it with any stock tranny.... might as well keep the torque i guess.

Wait, you lose torque? Well forget that!

So, what kind of crank would I need to get close to 1.75 but without suffering too much power or liter loss?

Also, does a better R/S ratio make more power, or just prevent stress on the engine? Can you just decrease this 'stress' with really strong eternals?

Wait, you lose torque? Well forget that!

So, what kind of crank would I need to get close to 1.75 but without suffering too much power or liter loss?

Also, does a better R/S ratio make more power, or just prevent stress on the engine? Can you just decrease this 'stress' with really strong eternals?

if you're going turbo, the loss in CC's can easily be made up.... you cant really get a better r/s w/out losing CC's unless you really bore out the engine... if you used a b16 crank you'd have to bore out to 89mm on each cylinder to get 1.9L.... thats a ton, i dont even think thats possible... having the 1.7L "LS/Vtec" with the 1.77:1 would be hell acool but not very practical i think.... i d k, havent found any real-world results

So why would the R/S really matter if you dont even plan using stock internals?

So why would the R/S really matter if you dont even plan using stock internals?

huge redline... and unless you got the block sleeved you're sideloading would become a problem...

I'm thinking, resleeved block w/ forged pistons boosted, with b16 head and why do you need a high redline when you will be making power at about 4k-5.5k? Unless the R/S is robbing me power I don't really see why it would matter that much if I don't plan to rev that high.

I'm thinking, resleeved block w/ forged pistons boosted, with b16 head and why do you need a high redline when you will be making power at about 4k-5.5k? Unless the R/S is robbing me power I don't really see why it would matter that much if I don't plan to rev that high.

hmm well if you did it right you wouldnt be making your power at 4k-5.5k

DUH thats the whole f*ing point. you can make your power band whever you want it (if you know enough to match all the parts together...), however if you were really smart you'd match your power band to your transmissions gearings so that you'd fall into the power band every shift.....

You seem to lead off with every question I have. Would someone helpful or with more experience please answer my questions? Thank you.

You seem to lead off with every question I have. Would someone helpful or with more experience please answer my questions? Thank you.

wat are your questions? maybe its jsut a bad day for me and im just missing them, or they're just not clearly stated...

Would you aim for more RPM's, hence a near perfect R/S Ratio because more RPM's is more work done, right? Would that mean we all should be aiming for a motor that can rev higher because there will be more power gains? I.E. More torque and horsepower at 10k than 5k?

How would setting up a turbo to boost at 5k compair to 10k? What are the advantages and disadvantages?

What would your powerband look like up there? You would get more horsepower but your torque would take the beating? What gains would I see if I went for a higher powerband and what disadvantages would there be.

if you wanted your powerband in higher rpms, couldnt you just go with skunk 2 or toda cams with valves, valve springs, retainers, etc. that would put your powerband up to around 9k. or woudl the bottom end of a b16 not take that?

To answer your question crxtacy, the only part of the engine that would need to handle high reving would be the cylinder walls, pistons and the crank. You see, the longer your rods are, the more stress you put on your cylinder walls because your crank never pushes the piston strait up. The crank moves in a circle and the end of the rod that is connected to the crank is what connects the power from the piston to the crank. The crank never pushes strait up... ever. The only time they are all alligned are when the piston is at its peak height or at the bottom of its decend.

I guess you can say that the rod is what converts the up and down power into a circular motion which makes your motor turn. I believe rotary is more effective at the transer.

So basicly what I have learned through searching. No help from other people on the board. *cough* andera *cough* Is that shorter engines are the only good engines for reving high simply because the R/S ratio is better. The piston doesn't have to move up or down as far therefor you can get more RPM's safer.

But because the rods are so short, you can say goodbye to your torque. This is a trick of motorcycles. Especially sport bikes. They are made to rev high because they need more horses than torque to push those 400lb. monsters. Cars need more torque to push their weight. Thats why they can get away with it.

So indi cars are made to rev high because they are lightweight and aerodynamic. They can do fine with a little less torque. But racing with heavier cars like NASCAR, they CAN rev high, but not as high. They need that precious torque to move them along. They are not as aerodynamic so thats where drafting comes in.

So that said... some ricers think more horsepower is more important than torque... WELL, it WOULD be if your car was about 800 pounds lighter! Building your engines to rev higher WILL give you more horses, but will it make you go faster? Depends on how badly your car needed that torque.

THATS why you plan ahead. Hey cool, I learned something new today.

thansk for the info 96civ. figured i would ask since everyone is talking about changing cranks and rods and shit for higher rpms. i dont understand why you wouldnt get a b16 and put upgraded cams and head parts on it for like a 9k rpm redline. the entire head would be built for that.

i understand the stress being on the cylinder walls, but i dont see how 800-1000 extra rpms could fuck it up bad since the top end would be built for it. your not changing any of the internals of th engine

All depends on if your valves and walls can take it. Long rods=more stress=less rpm's. If you don't obey the red line of your engine, chances are it won't last as long. Pure and simple.

Here are the B20, 18 and 16 specs...
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/b20tech.html

You will see the B16 has more horsepower, but now you know why it does, and you will know why it won't win the race.

uh.. y wont it win the race. the rod stroke is damn near perfect. yes it has the most horse power and the smalled amount of torque, but with the short geared tranny, for it to stay in its power band isnt really hard.

between the b20, vs the b16, i believe its a drivers race.

my question is though, with a skunk 2 stage 2 cam set and vavles, retainers, and springs, a head ment for 9k rpms and a top end to take it, will a stock b16 bottom end take it, i know the good rod stroke ratio is ment for a high reving engine, but is the 2nd get b16 bottom end good enough to take a couple extra hundred rpms.

yeah have givin me alot of info which i am thankful for. dont mind gaining knew knowledge every day.

Well, the b16 has a R/S of 1.74. That is better than all the other leading engines, but you really do have to upgrade the engine a whole lot more than just what your talking about. If your reving that high, your going to be making a LOT more heat... so at that point its not about breaking your engine, its about warping it. I would think you would need forged pistons and stronger cylinder walls at the least.

You have to really think about the R/S Hype thats going on all the time. If you think about it, there is no perfect R/S because your rod will be pushing your piston into your walls in each and every stroke except at the top and bottom of its travel which unfortinately is when your creating no power because the piston isn't moving! It turns around and gets shoved into the wall again and again, except if your reving twice as much, your creating twice as much stress on the engine. Heat will rise and walls will warp.

Now I'm sure you can rev high safely, but you do need to fix up your bottom end to handle the additional stress and heat. If I wanted my engine to last, the least I would do is a resleeve with forged pistons, and maybe a little lighter crank.

I would just keep in mind that people that do take real advantage of a high rev limit have short v8's and v12's because they will still have torque to back up all that HP. A 4 cylinder is just not as good at this IMO because people will be passing you up every time because you dont have the power to back it up. Hell, indy cars have 24 cylinders and a really high rev limit and can obviously tear anyone a new one.

Also, keep in mind:

Profesional drag racers that have a really high powerband don't measure how long their engine lasts in miles... they measure in minutes.

I also want to add that I have a Nitro RC Car, and it can rev to about 45k. The reason for that is because the rod is only I think... an inch long. RC Cars dont need much torque to push 3 lbs.

http://crx.honda-perf.org/articles/crvtec/images/crx-b16-dyno1.jpg
I also found a dyno of a b16. It appears to be stock. Notice where the torque falls off?

They shut it down at redline 8100 RPM's. But notice the torque peaks at about 6200 and then begins to fall down? Horsepower keeps going up, and your just replacing horses for torque.

And heres the B20.
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/dyno/MFSvsMFRwcat.gif
They look similar, but the extra .4L of displacement gives it that extra torque while the 1.6L doesnt have more torque, but more horsepower and can rev higher.

And here is both put together.
http://www.importreview.com/dyno/2.0/20b20vtec42.jpg

Now THATS NICE! Its my dream to get a B20 with a B16 head, resleeve, forged pistions, just everything modified... and then turbo it with 30+psi. Simply bad-a$$!

how much am i looking at for resleeving? or if i didnt change the rpms, how much power would i need before i resleeve?