We want more!

Try reading their newest issues we get it at work. They have revised their stats.

Heres what modernracer.com has for the evolution

Base price : $28,987

Engine : 4 cylinder, turbocharged, DOHC, front engine AWD
Displacement : 1,997 cc
Valve : 16 valves, 4 valves per cylinder
Transmission : 5-spd manual
Fuel economy : city - 18 mpg
highway - 26 mpg

Suspension : F - Independent MacPherson strut
R - Independent multilink
Brakes : F - Vented discs
R - Vented discs

Horsepower : 271 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque : 273 lb-ft @ 3500 rpm
Redline : 7000 rpm

Top speed : 156 mph(electronically limited)
0-60 mph : 4.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 13.1 sec @ 105.1 mph
60-0 braking distance : 110 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.95 g

Curb Weight : 3263 lbs
Overall length : 178.5 in.
Wheelbase : 103.3 in.
Overall Width : 69.7 in.
Height : 57.1 in.

you act as if when somebody mods a car, they actually go out and perform slalom tests and 60-0 mph braking tests. and you still havent answered my question. where did you get that 13.06 evo time? it wasnt motortrend.com

If I am the idiot than why can't you anwser my challenge. Remember that you are the one in the spotlight, not me. Prove to me that you are smarter. Just try. You are defending a loosing cause jump ship while you can.


tibby proved that already.

Even if you go by that the Evo is a MUCH better car. Anyway don't change the freeking subjuct are you going to accept my challenge or run like a dog?

tibby proved that already.


How so you have yet to even anwser me. Try again.

you act as if when somebody mods a car, they actually go out and perform slalom tests and 60-0 mph braking tests. and you still havent answered my question. where did you get that 13.06 evo time? it wasnt motortrend.com


Like I already said they revised their numbers. Just read a newer issue and see for yourself.

you act as if when somebody mods a car, they actually go out and perform slalom tests and 60-0 mph braking tests. and you still havent answered my question. where did you get that 13.06 evo time? it wasnt motortrend.com


I have seen plenty of tuner tests in HCI and SSC, try reading somtime. But you won't find what you are looking for because it does not exist. I have yet to hear of a tib with under 4k in mods beat 13.5 in the 1/4 mile. Or in any of the other tests for that matter. But keep trying I am enjoying this.

man jus go away! :banghead:
youre jus causing shit
and makin yourslef look like an absolute dick and an idiot

Where did you go?? I was just starting to have fun. Anyway Tibby you seem like a smart kid but find another car to defend, because so far tis one is a lost cause.

man jus go away! :banghead:
youre jus causing shit
and makin yourslef look like an absolute dick and an idiot


I did not start this argument, they did. Anyone who calls me out will be pubicly thrashed. So don't join in. Oh and I don't plan on going anywhere untill I am content with the thrashing. If there is one thing that I am not it is an idiot, but you can call me a dick all you want to, if that is what you call sombody that does not put up with people messing with him.

the point is, unless one gropup of peeople get together and test these three cars, we will never know. human error is to great a factor. im finding 14.2 times at caranddriver, and i know the evo is capable of more.

another point,the camaro is a great, fast car, but has reliabilty problems. in your so called test, it would crush the evo. its stock braking is better, and the speed times are even. with the 7k gap between them, it wouldnt be a contest. so lets just keep that outta the contest.

http://edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/47901/page020.html

http://edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=1Y0EGuYR4l5WLAjQ8aeQP XFzgTlBE1i14E0xfwlDmruDP7byI1Ko!897078834?styleid= 100074983&styleid=100265337&refid=&maxvehicles=5&op=3&tab=specs

until someone tunes a tiburon and also has access to a camaro and evo, this argument is pointless. ive showed you that in theory the tiburon could beat the evo in straight speed with less money than the total cost of an evo. you choose not to accept theory though, and want facts. well here is a fact. i have not provided proof that a tiburon is better than an evo with equal amounts of money. but nor have you proven to me that the evo is better than the tiburon given equal amounts of money. its just stupid and pointless. another problem is a lot of people who buy a tiburon and tune it, pay other people to do it, so the amount of money involved is negligable.

i dont care what you think, cause it seems that i cannot change your mind no matter what i show you. i have showed you two highly tuned tiburons here in the states. one with a 13.4 and the other a 13.1. i have showed you 600hp tiburons in korea, and an accent that wooped up on a modded evo; things you didnt think could be accomplished. i have showed you a 289whp(more than 300 at the crank) new tiburon that only runs weaker times because he was new at draging. if i have showed you all these things that you didnt think were possible, why cant it be possible that a tib can be better than an evo dollar for dollar?

whatever, im a poor college kid who drives his tiburon because it is cheap and performs/looks good enough for me. the people who buy evos are usually wealthy. most people who buy tiburons do so because they are cheap. only a very select few actually buy one and mod the hell out of it with 9k(the gap between the tiburon and evo). so this argument is pointless, im out.

http://www.newtiburon.com/yabbse/index.php?board=16;action=display;threadid=32766

theres a turbo'd i-4... :smokin:

and bro i dunno who you think you are.... but what the fuck are oyu talkin about with public trashing.....
youre a tool! :screwy:
this thread is full of a lota useful info... and the rest is your bitchin and moaning about a car you know nothing about...
go save up for an evo/wrx/ or srt4 and go have fun... go get a life while youre out too
it might help with your business... :loser:
i dont know what youre trying to prove.. and remember you get what you pay for....
the cars you mentioned.... were all more expensive than the tib....
and if you say its crap.... youre an idiot.. and youll get nowhere in life with such a sheltered attitude....
so go drive your corolla off a cliff

is there anything else you wanna see?

the point is, unless one gropup of peeople get together and test these three cars, we will never know. human error is to great a factor. im finding 14.2 times at caranddriver, and i know the evo is capable of more.

another point,the camaro is a great, fast car, but has reliabilty problems. in your so called test, it would crush the evo. its stock braking is better, and the speed times are even. with the 7k gap between them, it wouldnt be a contest. so lets just keep that outta the contest.

http://edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/47901/page020.html

http://edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison;jsessionid=1Y0EGuYR4l5WLAjQ8aeQP XFzgTlBE1i14E0xfwlDmruDP7byI1Ko!897078834?styleid= 100074983&styleid=100265337&refid=&maxvehicles=5&op=3&tab=specs

until someone tunes a tiburon and also has access to a camaro and evo, this argument is pointless. ive showed you that in theory the tiburon could beat the evo in straight speed with less money than the total cost of an evo. you choose not to accept theory though, and want facts. well here is a fact. i have not provided proof that a tiburon is better than an evo with equal amounts of money. but nor have you proven to me that the evo is better than the tiburon given equal amounts of money. its just stupid and pointless. another problem is a lot of people who buy a tiburon and tune it, pay other people to do it, so the amount of money involved is negligable.

i dont care what you think, cause it seems that i cannot change your mind no matter what i show you. i have showed you two highly tuned tiburons here in the states. one with a 13.4 and the other a 13.1. i have showed you 600hp tiburons in korea, and an accent that wooped up on a modded evo; things you didnt think could be accomplished. i have showed you a 289whp(more than 300 at the crank) new tiburon that only runs weaker times because he was new at draging. if i have showed you all these things that you didnt think were possible, why cant it be possible that a tib can be better than an evo dollar for dollar?

whatever, im a poor college kid who drives his tiburon because it is cheap and performs/looks good enough for me. the people who buy evos are usually wealthy. most people who buy tiburons do so because they are cheap. only a very select few actually buy one and mod the hell out of it with 9k(the gap between the tiburon and evo). so this argument is pointless, im out.



WOW! that was the longest excuse that I have ever seen on this site. All you had to say is "You were right" or "They just have not built one yet" or you could use the Saints excuse "you just wait untill next year" We all know why you are leaving because you know that I am right and you cannot anwser my challange fine! NEXT!

Nisco will you take my challange or run like the last guy? Time to put up or shut up. I think that tibby was pretty smart and even he could not anwser my challange, do you think that you stand a chance? :evillol: Yes I guss that I am a tool like you said, I must be a screwdriver, because I am screwing with your head and driving you nuts. :rofl: :rofl:


Bring it! :sunglasse

how about you try to take your own challange. the camaro already beats the evo in braking and is very very close in quarter mile times and 0-60 times. and think about this, sticking a turbo on a v-8 will yeild much much more horsepower than a turbo on a 4cylinder. there is much more air flowing out of an 8 than a 4, so the same sized turbo will stop being a restriction and start producing boost mych earlier. more boost means more power. http://www.prewittracing.com/chevrolet.htm

and your evo is toast for a total cost of 26k.

so do you win the test by default, since no one has dumped 9k in performance mods on a tiburon. even if they did, they wouldnt document every single cost.

and ill ask la pulga how much he has spent total on his accent that ripped the evo a new one.

Hello you still have not anwserd my challange. And as far as your challange goes the Camaro does not respond to turbo boost well in stock form, it would require a full buildup to withstand over 7psi of boost. That is why it is not very popular. Game over you loose, care to try again. Oh yes and the Camaro does NOT beat the Evo in breaking, 0-60, or the 1/4 mile. Quit making that stupid assumption. I have already shown that to be false. I think that it was June 03 MT.

you wouldnt need 7psi to beat the evo. maybe 4 and you already got him. the engine makes 310 hp at 14.1(atmospheric pressure) or 1BAR. at 100% efficiency, the engine creates 22hp per psi. granted 100% doesnt exist, but it is usually pretty high. you bump up the pressure the engine is seeing to around 18, and you have your engine producing almost 400hp.

it does beat it in braking, and i never siad it beat the evo in stock 1/4 and 0-60 times.
http://edmunds.com/reviews/comparis...01/page020.html

http://edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds...&op=3&tab=specs

you wouldnt need 7psi to beat the evo. maybe 4 and you already got him. the engine makes 310 hp at 14.1(atmospheric pressure) or 1BAR. at 100% efficiency, the engine creates 22hp per psi. granted 100% doesnt exist, but it is usually pretty high. you bump up the pressure the engine is seeing to around 18, and you have your engine producing almost 400hp.


Uh where do you go to school? Please slap your teachers for me. 1 atm is 14.7 psi at sea leval, secondly 100% volumetric effecency does exist in fact it is very common, some cars get up to 125% VE. It is a very long and technical explanation as to how they do that so I am not going to explain that right now but I recomend that you look that up before you argue with me. Third you are not even counting thermal effecency of your supercharger, or increased air intake temps. (genral rule 10 degrees added temp=minus 1% hp) Please do yourself a favor and actualy learn this stuff before you come here with it. And you still have not anwserd my challange. Try again.

Your edmunds link does not work here how fast did their z-28 stop the Evo did a 60-0 in 106ft. I have never herd of a Camaro doing any better than that.

Any other scientists want to challange me? Let me warn you right now I know what I am talking about. I have studied this stuff for years, and I have the practicle aplacation advantage of being a mechanic.

oh god, you really need to look a lot closer at things i post.

i have never heard of a non-boosted engine making more than 100%VE, so please explain it to me(seriously, i want to know how). i know for a fact none of those methods are applied to z28 camaros.

and check my edmund's posts on the previous page for the braking comparisons. i dont care what any other of your tests say. those two tests were done by the same group of people, so those results are the most reliable.

lastly, if you look at that turbo kit page closely, it is a twin air to liquid intercooler setup, which most of the time creates an intercooler efficiency over 100%. so no(or maybe a very little bit) loss in hp due to warmer air.

and fine your right, i cant meet your challange, because no one i know or have heard about has dumped that much money into performance mods for a tib. so you win i guess.

oh god, you really need to look a lot closer at things i post.

i have never heard of a non-boosted engine making more than 100%VE, so please explain it to me(seriously, i want to know how). i know for a fact none of those methods are applied to z28 camaros.

and check my edmund's posts on the previous page for the braking comparisons. i dont care what any other of your tests say. those two tests were done by the same group of people, so those results are the most reliable.

lastly, if you look at that turbo kit page closely, it is a twin air to liquid intercooler setup, which most of the time creates an intercooler efficiency over 100%. so no(or maybe a very little bit) loss in hp due to warmer air.

and fine your right, i cant meet your challange, because no one i know or have heard about has dumped that much money into performance mods for a tib. so you win i guess.


OK here it goes, attaining over 100% VE in an internal combustion engine is done by what some of us call pulse harmonization, basicly the pulse created by the air being suddenly stopped by the closing of the intake valve "bounces" out of the intake runners creating a negative pressure, causing air to rush back in to take it's place causing a "pulse" of higher pressure. This is the same way that a pulse jet engine works. The downside of this is that since it works in relation to the length of the intake runner it only works at it's maxamum effectivness at a very narrow RPM range (this causes your torque to "peak") This is the reason why longer intake runners create higher low end torque and short runners make higher peak hp. This same idea can be applied to an exaust by removing more of the spent gases (hence some exaust runners don't work well at low RPM) If you would like an experement that you could do at home I can explain one to you if you like. And yes I a sure that the Camaro does excede 100% VE at some point in it's RPM band most sports cars do. As far as your 100%+ innercooler goes it only does that while everything is still cool, once things heat up it is not getting a full 100%. Don't feel bad about not being able to find an "Evo killer" tib I could not find one either. I have seen guys spend alot on a tib but they mostly did cosmetic work for car shows. If you have any other questions please ask.

thanks for that explanation, but the camaro could still beat the evo with less than 7psi.

No doubt that you are right about that. It would only take about 2psi to beat it in the 1/4 mile but there is a whole lot more to proformance than just the 1/4. Oh by the way Nissan is supposedly making a variable length intake manifold to keep maxamum VE through the entire RPM band that would mean having a constant 100%+VE if it works. (which it should)

Oh but remember that turbocharging a V8 is very tricky. There are a ton of little problems that you would never think of (which I don't have time to list because the computer lab closes in 10 min). It amounts to an expensive proposal, which is why superchargers are more popular on V8s. And superchargers (especaly roots style) have a very low thermal effecency (often less than 50%!!!) And their configural superchargers do not make consistant boost, which means that they have the downside of turbochargers without the free energy. So it is all a tradeoff.

yeah, so better 60-0(according to edmunds)
better 1/4 time(with turbo)
better 0-60 time(buy slicks with the extra 2-3k)

thats 3 out of 5 ad the domestic camaro wins

on a side note, that variable intake runner thingy will prolly cost a lot of money to create. but what if they paired that with nissan's version of vtec(im sure they have one, hyundai has there own). that would be a kickass efficient engine.

yeah, so better 60-0(according to edmunds)
better 1/4 time(with turbo)
better 0-60 time(buy slicks with the extra 2-3k)

thats 3 out of 5 ad the domestic camaro wins

on a side note, that variable intake runner thingy will prolly cost a lot of money to create. but what if they paired that with nissan's version of vtec(im sure they have one, hyundai has there own). that would be a kickass efficient engine.


I do not compare proformance with edmunds because they don't have good test drivers. Try using MT or HCI or some magazine that really drives their cars. Try finging a Camaro test in which they exceded a 13.06 in the 1/4, or a 4.6 0-60. Besides adding slicks does not keep the Camaro street legal which is part of the challenge that I proposed to you. And that turbo instolation will cost more than the difference between the two cars anyway, please look again at your site and note that instalation is not included in that price nor is the turbo heads that you are supposed to install. You loose try again.

OH MY GOD!!! Seriously Jared, your problem is that you're so caught up in your powertrip to be fucking right all the time that you're missing what it means just to ENJOY the car you drive. If you don't like the way the Hyundai makes the car....here's an IDEA just don't DRIVE one. You keep telling people how "they lose", but the only real loser here is you by not just chilling and letting people just enjoy themselves.

Peace out, I'm going to go ENJOY my ride.

ColeIketani

As I have already stated several times I did not start this fight, but I will take down anyone who calles me out. Oh yes you are right about me having to be right all the time, because I have studied everything that there I can find about cars and proformance for years, so being right just comes naturaly. I was just saying that this car needed better proformance and everybody wants to call me an idiot, would you sit there and take that or would you stand up for yourself like I did? Think about that. :smokin:

I as the modest person would have been like, that's your own personal option and leave it at that. Otherwise we can meet on the street and decide that. (but of course you drive a Corolla or whatever so you wouldn't be doing that)Independent Investigation of the Truth.

Modestly seems to be a point that your lacking, by braging and boosting about your technical knowledge. "so being right just comes naturaly." that is the most arrogant bullshit I've ever heard. By saying that you've made it all the more harder for ANYONE to take your points seriously

I as the modest person would have been like, that's your own personal option and leave it at that. Otherwise we can meet on the street and decide that. (but of course you drive a Corolla or whatever so you wouldn't be doing that)Independent Investigation of the Truth.

Modestly seems to be a point that your lacking, by braging and boosting about your technical knowledge. "so being right just comes naturaly." that is the most arrogant bullshit I've ever heard. By saying that you've made it all the more harder for ANYONE to take your points seriously


Do not confuse confidence with arrogance, there is a difference. Take my point any way you like. Agree with me or don't agree with me, but do not call me stupid, that is where I draw the line, would you not do the same?

... why is he posting in a hyudai thread... if he doesnt plan on gettin a hyundai.. or a tib for that matter....
we want more?... whos we?... you, you, and you?
there are avid tuners happy with their tibs and know how to get them to where they want them
this is the shittiest board to find out anything good on... you want quality... go to www.newtiburon.com
www.hyundaiperformance.com
www.hyundaiaftermarket.com
youre pickin a figth that really.. cant be won on either side... we are defending our cars and time and time again have proved you wrong...
youre using the offensive of every other car out there....
you shoulda taken all this time you have on posting here with helping your "business"

... why is he posting in a hyudai thread... if he doesnt plan on gettin a hyundai.. or a tib for that matter....
we want more?... whos we?... you, you, and you?
there are avid tuners happy with their tibs and know how to get them to where they want them
this is the shittiest board to find out anything good on... you want quality... go to www.newtiburon.com
www.hyundaiperformance.com
www.hyundaiaftermarket.com
youre pickin a figth that really.. cant be won on either side... we are defending our cars and time and time again have proved you wrong...
youre using the offensive of every other car out there....
you shoulda taken all this time you have on posting here with helping your "business"


Uh, buisness??????? :sly: what buisness? Oh and this fight can be won let me assure you of that. I think that I have done a pretty good job so far. I just started by saying that the tib nedded better proformance and all the sudden everybody jumps on me (you guys are really insecure about your car) Nowhere else did people attack me like you did when I critisized your car, so now I will anwser your insults by showing you who really knows what they are talking about, and who does not. In my oppinion the smatrest person on your side has already given up (and rightfuly so) so who is next to try to back up their insults?

"we want more?... whos we?... you, you, and you?"

lol, that's good

well see it just seems like your boasting and struting around to secure your maculinity LOL. Because I think that a smart person would know when to call it a draw (since like Nisco said"you don't have a Tib and it doesn't seem like your planning to buy one")

It will be a draw when I get an apology. Then I can leave on even terms having said me peace. But just because I stoped saying otherwise does not make the tib a proformance car. And If you insist that I re-phrase it "I want more" there happy? I would buy a tib if they could match the evo for less money too but as of right now they cannot.

what appology? :eek7:
for you being a douche bag online and trying to act all tough and "know your shit"... that you looked up from websites on line?
youre a joke man :screwy:
so stay i dun care youll jus look like more of an ass then ever before :rofl:

See Cole this is exactly what I am talking about. OK Nisco I guss that you are next in line, will you accept my challange? Or will you run like a dog with it's tale between it's legs? Put up or shut up! :smokin:

and you're asking for an apology after that?

Jared, this may be a new concept for you, but people say shit. Sometimes it's shit we don't like. In your case I guess it's this whole thread here. You should just learn that people don't have to aplogize and you should be able understand that some people maybe don't want/care/give a damn on what you have to say on the matter. (Another key hint, asking for an aplogy and then calling someone else a dog is not a way to get one) lol

put up or shut up?
geezus chryst
man youre challenge
heres a challenege for you... hwo bout you shut up?
hmmmmmm sound hard doesnt it
man what are you trying to prove?.. you wanna be arogant ass mutha fooka?!
why dontyou go back to talin about how an evo will beat a tib?.... or turbo charging a v8
man alota the shit you talk abotu has nothing to do with tiburons... look where your posting..... a hyundai board... in a tiburon thread.... you fucking idiot...
go post your crap in the ima tool section and i like to spit out stupid pointless knowledge
go take your car skills to another thread that people might use

Don't you think that I know that he would never apologize? I am just messing with his head. The mader he gets the funnier it is. I know it sounds like I am sick but this is what I enjoy. I know for a fact that there is no rational way he can defend this car even if he did know alot about it, but I continue to egg him on anyway.

put up or shut up?
geezus chryst
man youre challenge
heres a challenege for you... hwo bout you shut up?
hmmmmmm sound hard doesnt it
man what are you trying to prove?.. you wanna be arogant ass mutha fooka?!
why dontyou go back to talin about how an evo will beat a tib?.... or turbo charging a v8
man alota the shit you talk abotu has nothing to do with tiburons... look where your posting..... a hyundai board... in a tiburon thread.... you fucking idiot...
go post your crap in the ima tool section and i like to spit out stupid pointless knowledge
go take your car skills to another thread that people might use


Dang that was your most un-intelligent response yet! Do you really consider that a response? Where do you go to school and what grade are you in?

Nevermind you probably don't know what grades are, so just anwser me this do you ride the short bus, or do they make you walk?

See Jared?
You're just instilling more insults later. It's an endless cycle lol

See Jared?
You're just instilling more insults later. It's an endless cycle lol

No I do more than just insult (remember that I did not start this cycle) I make factual statements and back them up with numbers, and creditable sources, unlike someone else who keeps writing.

See Jared?
You're just instilling more insults later. It's an endless cycle lol

But I think that Nisco brings up a good point. Look where you are posting this topic, a Tiburon forum. Of course the drivers are going to defend thier cars. You call them weak, they get upset. Then you talk about your technical knowledge and start comparing untuned Tibs to cars outside of the Tiburons MSRP range. You may have alot of tech knowledge, but this board may not be the place to show it off. A technical board something along those lines might suit you better.

Personally I stopped caring when people started comparing 20g cars to cars that can go 90g plus...it just wasn't about Tibs anymore. It was just a Jared Pride Session

See Jared?
You're just instilling more insults later. It's an endless cycle lol

But I think that Nisco brings up a good point. Look where you are posting this topic, a Tiburon forum. Of course the drivers are going to defend thier cars. You call them weak, they get upset. Then you talk about your technical knowledge and start comparing untuned Tibs to cars outside of the Tiburons MSRP range. You may have alot of tech knowledge, but this board may not be the place to show it off. A technical board something along those lines might suit you better.

Personally I stopped caring when people started comparing 20g cars to cars that can go 90g plus...it just wasn't about Tibs anymore. It was just a Jared Pride Session


How is comparing a v6 tib to an SRT-4 unfair??? they cost almost exactly the same? And I was not camparing any of those cars to the tib you are taking my words out of context! Go back and read what I said.

talk about taking words out of context. I said "people" not "you". Other PEOPLE were doing it too. This isn't like "we" want more meaning "I" want more

and about you not starting this cycle. You can be the one to end it by just bring up your options (which could be valid) on another more approriate forum.

It's like the fireman looking over at the fire and saying. "I didn't start the fire so I'm not going to put it out"

Well other peolpe can judge how they like but I keep things in prespective very well, I am sorry for jumping on you like that but I have had nearly this entire site jump on me accusing me of comparing the NSX to the tib. Which makes no freeking sence whatsoever.

I think that the best way to end the argument is for me to just keep stumping poor nisco and his kind, untill they don't come back anymore. Then I don't need an apology, because they are gone. I would actualy enjoy having somone who can really defend this car because then I could learn somthing myself. That is the only reason I continue to argue.

well I'm glad we can agree on that point lol. I got confused a bit when that happen. And no problem about the jumping part. As a Tib owner, I have great pride in my car, but I have nothing against you. I just wanted to understand the point what was going on without us just yelling"you're stupid" back and forth lol

Alright then I guess I'll try and defend my car

But first I need to hear your arguement straight out

Please note that I have never said that the tib was a bad car, or a piece of junk. My one and only critisizm is that it is not the "proformance" car (by my standards) that the company paints it to be. I actualy kind of like the car all proformance issues aside.

Ok my challenge is simple and streight forward. Is the Tib a better proformance car for the cost than the Camaro z28 (the American standard cheap fast car) which costs 22k and postes some very impressive numbers. The chalenge is to find a tib with less than 22k in it that can beat a Z28 in three of five events (0-60, 60-0, slolom, 1/4 mile, and skidpad) All cars must be street legal, and have most of their interior. Basicly it must be a daily driver like the Camaro. Please no NOS over 50hp because beyond that they just destroy small engines.

well I think that the overall preformance of the car is fine. The nice thing I like about the car is although it is a front wheel drive car, the weight is nicely balanced. Especailly for mountain touge driving. The car weight balance is 63/37, which makes the car a great handler on curves and on the downhill. It's the car's inertia that gives it greater speed on passes like that. Partly I do wish that the HP numbers on the Tib could have been a little higher, at least 150 for the base and 190 for the V6, but what I thought as a handicap when I first had the car, I used to find the car's strength. I'm not one for Car and Driver numbers to tell me if the car is good or not. I really like to drive the car in different conditions and see how it fits me, how it feels and responds to me because after a while you find out how to make people you pass say. "Damn, I just got smoked by a Hyundai" lol

now for your question are we talking about the stock models or the tuned models?

Most import car makers are making their v6s with around 240 hp so I see a 170hp v6 as unused potential.

Tuned tib vs. stock z28. Anything can be done to the tib as long as it does not bring the total cost above 22k (the price of the Camaro)