The COMPLETE 92-00 Civic Owners Engine Swapping Guide!!
Rice-Rocketeer
01-02-2002, 01:54 PM
So you want to swap out that puny 91 cubic inch weedwacker engine of yours and replace it with a fire-breathing DOHC? That's cool. But which engine should you go for? The 5th and 6th generation civic owners are lucky in the fact that its bigger brothers were designed very similar to the civic in many ways. This allows the ability to transplant various other engines from other H-cars without too much fuss. Integra, Prelude, other civics, even the sport Ute CRV engines can be considered. In addition you can do more than just swap out the whole engine, you could take a Vtec cylinder head and put it on your existing engine or swap out the whole engine and THEN swap the head on that. The possibilities are many. To help you wade through this mess, First I'll talk about the different engine choices, and then I'll talk about head swapping choices and its benefits. I'll get into the pros and cons of each to help YOU decide which choice is wise for you according to your courage, budget and power needs.
First off I need to mention a few things. When looking for your possible swap candidate, have a plan and research EVERYTHING. Find out as much info from as many sources as you can find. Now when putting $$$ aside for the swap, put aside as much as the components costs (Engine, transmission, etc), add shipping if necessary, then add atleast $1000 for small extra parts you might need and/or broken parts on the engine (PCV valves, distributor core, AC bracket, axles, shift linkage, new polyurethane mounts, etc), and finally calculate how much you’ll need to replace all the high wear components: Timing belt, plugs, oil pump, clutch, etc. Believe me, it’ll cost ALOT less to replace them now than if they break after you’ve installed the engine. You should buy the helms manual for the engine you plan to get to get a complete run down of all the technical stuff. AND before I forget, remember that your stock cooling system will most likely need to be upgraded in one way or the other to cool the new bigger engine. And plan on the safe side to be without the car for atleast 2 weeks. It shouldn’t take more than a weekend of work but something ALWAYS goes wrong. As we Hispanics say: “Dress yourself in patience” and expect the worst and you’ll be fine. :)
As for exactly what you need to complete the entire swap, unfortunately it changes slightly with each engine considered, which is why it’s extremely important to research exactly what you need, but here’s the general list:
1. Engine and all components attached to the engine. Cylinder head, alternator, distributor, AC pump if necessary, P/S pump if necessary, etc.
2. Transmission: It doesn’t necessarily have to be the tranny that came with the engine but you need to get atleast a transmission that will bolt up to the block. All transmissions of the same letter series tranny’s should bolt up like stock. At this point it would an excellent time to decide if you’d like to change your transmission from automatic to stickshift or vise versa. There are other threads available in the Civic FAQ that could help you with that.
3. ECU: It’s a vital link in the whole project and most of the times completely looked over. If you plan to swap the head of your engine, you need the ECU of the head you’re swapping in.
4. Shift Linkage: These rods connect the shifter knob to the transmission. Without them you couldn’t shift the tranny. They aren’t necessary with every swap but most of them do need them.
5. Axles: Makes sense that you need the axles that fit the transmission. They’re all different for each swap unfortunately. The axles that came with the engine aren’t going to necessarily work with your civic suspension. Research.
6. Mounts: Most of the swaps don’t need fabricated mounts but they do need the mounts that came with the engine. The H22 and F22 engines are different in that they need custom mounts from places like HASport or Place Racing.
7. Optional, Performance exhaust: Your stock exhaust, particularly your stock catalytic converter will act as a cork to your newfound power. Replacing it with a high performance exhaust will let the engine breathe at the very least to stock specs. In some cases however, the down pipe on the engine won’t match up perfectly with your catalytic converter. In which taking a trip down to the local muffler shop and making a custom exhaust system would be in order.
8. Fuel Pump: For some of the larger swaps, particularly the 2.2 liter series, the stock civic fuel pump will not be enough to meet the needs of the new engine. At the very least you need the pump of the engine you’re getting. If not get an upgraded aftermarket pump.
Two things that are very important that I need to discuss before we get into each engine are the Rod to Stroke ratio and OBD.
The Rod to Stroke ratio: This topic gets very complicated very quickly. Basically it’s the ratio of how long the rod is compared to the length of the entire rod stroke. The perfect ratio is 1.75. If the ratio is off, it means that the rod is not using 100% of it’s momentum to compress the air and gas mixture. It’s using more energy to push against the sides of the cylinder walls than to compress the fuel mixture. This is normally not too bad because things are very well lubricated in your engine. But when you change certain aspects of the engine, in particular increasing the ECU fuel cutoff point or going forced induction, the imperfect R/S ratio will cause more stress on the engine block and could eventually destroy it. A good R/S ratio also ensures long engine life. For a more in-depth look into the R/S ratio check out the following site: http://victorylibrary.com/tech/crod-c.htm
OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics. Most every modern car has a version of OBD and it’s basically an engine monitoring system. It consists of many different sensors in strategic locations that monitor various aspects of the engine’s performance. Some examples of the sensors are O2 sensors that monitor the air to fuel mixture, the throttle position sensor that senses how open the throttle plate is at any given moment, and intake temperature sensor that monitors the temperature of the intake air. All of these sensors are monitored by the ECU, the car’s brain monitors the OBD system and changes variables according to pre-programmed specifications. There are currently 3 versions of OBD and each version gets progressively more complex and stricter on the amount flexibility it will allow before taking action to prevent what it sees as a potentially engine damaging situation. OBD1 started with the 5th generation civic 1992-1995. OBD2 continued with the 6th generation 1996-2000 and the latest version is OBD3 and can be found on the 7th gen. civic 2001-???.
NOW, Let’s get to the engines starting with the smallest and cheapest candidates:
D16Z6, D16Y8, D15B7: If you have one of the lower and cheaper civic models, IE The Cx, Dx, Lx and If you're looking for a cheap power increase while still maintaining stock gas mileage then the possibility of swapping in one of the higher model civic engines is right up your alley. The D16Z6 is the SOHC 5th Gen. Si and Ex engine pushing 125hp @ 6600 rpm and 106 lb.-ft of torque @ 5200 rpm. The D16Y8 is the 6th gen. SOHC Ex engine pushing 127hp @ 6600 rpm and 107 lb.-ft of torque @ 5500 rpm. These are extremely easy to find since allot ppl swap them out in favor for more expensive engines. They bolt in like stock and the whole package could be had for hundreds (You might even find someone who’s recently swapped who would basically give away their engine). Let's say you want something cheap but you could work on for possibly turbo or nitrous? The D16Y8 is cheap and the pistons are the exact size of TT Supra pistons. They could substitute for forged versions and work just as well for a turbo upgrade. Be warned though as the D16Y8 has a particularly bad Rod to Stroke ratio at 1.52. I also suggest the B15B7 which is the 5th gen. Dx and Lx engine pushing 102hp @ 5900 rpm and 98 lb.-ft of torque @ 5000 rpm. If you have a 5th gen. Cx and you’re in need of the cheapest upgrade, this motor could be for you. Again you could probably find it for less than $500.
B16A1, B16A2, B16A3: If you need a little more power and have the money, the Civic Si and the del Sol VTEC engine are possibilities. They are all DOHC 1.6 liter engines pushing 160 hp @ 7600 rpm and 111lb.-ft of torque @ 7000 rpm. The A1 is the pre-obd engine that came with a cable transmission and various other pre 5th gen. items that need to be dealt with when considering the swap. The reason I point this out is because all 5th and 6th gen. civics came with hydraulic tranny's so think twice about this one. The upside is the cheap price. The A3 is the OBD1 engine out of the del Sol Vtec. These older models can be had for cheaper than OBD2 models and have upgraded various things such as hydro trannies. These are a perfect choice for the 5th genners. The A2 is the 99-00 Si engine. Same as the A3 only this one came with an upgraded OBD2 emissions system that is mandatory for all 96+ civic swappers. The B16A1 could be had for around $1200. The B16A3 could be found for about $2000-$2500 and the newer B16A2 could be found for around $2500-$3000.
They all lack a sufficient amount of torque due to their small displacement but their small mass and a bad ass R/S ratio of 1.74 allows them to rev to astronomical proportions. They also all have a HUGE aftermarket support. The only thing I don’t like about this particular swap is that this seems to be only one ppl think of. Whenever they want to swap engines, they all go for the B16. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great engine but there are other engines out there to consider. I’ve even known ppl to be disappointed because they expected more. That’s what this article if for :)
B16B: Often regarded as the best 1.6 liter engine in the world, the JDM Civic Type R engine is the rarest of them all. Producing a whopping 185hp @ 8200 rpm and a reasonable 120 lb.-ft of torque @ 7600 rpm and being naturally aspirated, it is technical marvel. It was only available on the 1999-2000 Civic Type R and having one imported will run you easily into the $6000+ range. But you will be WELL respected and large thief magnet when ppl find out. If you have the money and like spending it on high octane gas for your 4 banger, why not?
B17A, B18B1: The B17A could be found on the 92-93 GSR producing 160hp @ 7600 rpm and 117 lb.-ft @ 7000 rpm. The B18B1 is the later model Integra LS, RS, and GS engines. They don't offer huge power outputs at 142hp @ 6300 rpm and 127 lb.-ft @ 5200 rpm, But they can be had for very cheap as they are plentiful and not really sought after by many ppl. The exception being for the B17A as it did have greater power output but they can still be had for cheap as they are generally older and in worse shape compared to the newer B18’s. Anyone of these should still offer a cheap, reliable power upgrade for your small civic. Anyone of these engines could be found for under $2000. The downside to these cheaper engines is their Rod to Stroke ratio. The B17 isn’t that bad but the B18B1 has a R/S ratio of 1.54. This does considerably reduce the maximum possible power output from these engines. But if you don't plan on turbocharging this engine past 15 psi or letting it rev to 11,000 rpm, then it should meet your modest power needs.
B18C1: Probably the most highly sought after swap candidate, this powerful little engine came on the late model Integra GSR and produced a hefty 170hp @ 7600 rpm and 128lbs-ft @ 6200 rpm. It is rather expensive at around $3000-$3500 and they are a little on the rare side considering everyone wants one, but a simple swap and your pocket rocket will be pushing high 14's with a stock engine. Even more by adding the small bolt-ons. And greddy has a bolt on intercooled turbocharger kit that'll give around 240 wheel hp. Which should put you deep into the 13 second range, possibly high 12's. This is the most desired swap candidate.
B18C5: This naturally aspirated wonder came on the late model Integra Type R and produced an even greater 195 hp @ 8100 rpm and about 130 lb.-ft of torque @ 7500 rpm. This is even more highly sought after than the GSR engine. And would in fact be more popular if it wasn't for its $5000+ price tag. But if you could afford it, there are few engines that would be as painless and give you the fastest performance available for the civic. This regarded as the naturally aspirated wonder because it does well producing large amounts of power without the need for snailshell's. Although a turbocharger can be bolted on to this bad-boy, it's generally not recommended, as this is a very high compression engine. If you were to used forced induction on such a high compression engine, you would either have to build it accordingly, have a REALLY good engine management system ($$$) or watch it blow up on the first run. The C1 is better suited for forced induction and would cost less in the long run.
B20B, B20Z: The B20 engine is the newcomer in the game and is highly acclaimed by its supporters. It has several key characteristics that give this engine real potential no matter what route you decide to persue. The B20B came on the 1996-1998 CRV and the B20Z came on 1999-2000 CRV. The B20B made 126 hp but the real jewel was the 133lbs of torque that was easily achieved almost anywhere in the RPM band. It is a small displacement engine that has flat torque line!!! Additionally it was a comparatively low compression engine which means that turbocharging to decent levels is possible without the need to spend hundreds on rods or pistons. The B20Z was more or less the same as the B20B but they changed several head characteristics and the compression was bumped up to increase the horsepower to 146.
There are really two choices for dealing the B20 as far as power goes. You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model. The cylinder head on the B20B model (particularly the tall intake manifold) doesn't clear the hoodline of the civic, which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion. This is what I consider to be the ultimate engine build-up for civics’. You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. The first thing you need to know about B-series engine (B18, B16, B20) is that they all have, for the most part, interchangeable engine parts. So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75 which allows for great naturally aspirated performance (A HUGE redline) or the ability to turbocharge the engine to very large proportions without worrying about engine stability. It is unfortunately rather expensive but this setup will take you anywhere you want to go. The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
Unless you’re simply happy with the stock B20 swap, the only reasons it should be considered are CRVTEC conversions or Forced Induction. The aftermarket support isn’t as plentiful for the B20 as it is for the other engine mentioned so any engine upgrades usually come from other B series or upgraded aftermarket parts for other B series. Which is more less slowly building a CRVTEC engine. But I still highly recommend this engine for the best bang for the buck power adder. Here’s a techy article on the B20 for you: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/crv-b20b-info-n-rod-stroke-ratio.htm
H22A1, H23A1, H22A4: The H23A1 came on the lude Si’s, the highly acclaimed H22A1 came on the 4th gen Si VTEC models and H22A4 came on the 5th generation Si VTEC’s.. And all three engines are MONSTERS compared to what we’re used to. The H22A1 produces a nice 190 hp while the H22A4 produces an even greater 195hp and the H23A1 produces 160hp but they all produce a THICK ASS 160 lb.-ft of torque at relatively low rpm. Giving your 2500lb civic wheel spinning capabilities comparable to a V8 F-body. The whole engine should cost about the same as a GSR swap, $3000-$3500. The down side is the fact that the engine also weighs about 200 lbs. more than the engine you have in your bay now. This effectively makes your weight distribution even worse than what it was before. This causes all types of havoc with your other systems, including suspension, braking and cooling. The engine is also of course very large in size so it's a tight fit into the tiny civic engine bay providing that you make space by removing both air-conditioning and power steering systems.
From talks with several veteran H22 swappers I can give you the overall driving opinion. To make the swap work, first off the springs and shocks in the front need to be stiffened to appropriately handle the extra weight. The overall suspension tuning should concentrate on trying to create heavy oversteer to offset the natural understeer problem the extra weight will create. There is another way to offset the understeer problem but most ppl don't want to go through with it. It involves placing a few hundred pounds of weight in the trunk to even out the weight distribution. But most ppl want to go the other way by stripping everything out of the interior, effectively making it worse. The cooling system will amazingly enough be fine for about 75% of the time. However, on hot days or with spirited driving, the engine can start to overheat itself. For the financially strapped, an extra wide Integra radiator can be swapped in for about $100 that will provide all the extra cooling you need. You can learn about it here: http://www.hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/jsrad/jsrad.html. If you have the extra money, you could swap in an all aluminum thick ass racing radiator with a smaller and more efficient fan and for extra insurance, a low temperature thermostat (160 degree rather than 180) could be replaced. Considering you no longer have air-conditioning the extra space that was once used by the AC condenser could be put to good use and it could be used for an external oil cooler. With this setup you could go uphill mountain racing without fear overheating. The braking system for the most part could work but if you really want to trust your life to stock system, be my guest. If you'd like to upgrade it, the cheap way is to replace the rotors for better heat dissipation (You could either get stock sized cross-drilled or slotted rotors, or you could opt for a bigger rotor kit that uses a relocated bracket so you can use the stock calipers) better brake pads and rear brake disk swap if not already equipped (Instructions HERE (http://www.hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/brakeswap.html)). If you have some money, you could get a 4-piston caliper upgrade with extra large rotors with great pads. Just the thing to stop you at 150 mph. If you do opt for the bigger rotor upgrade, remember that the stock wheels will no longer fit over the larger brakes. Some systems suggest 16” or larger.
Let me remind you that this is all extra $$$. The basic swap still includes about $1000 worth of junkyard parts just to make it work, which includes axles, linkages, ECU, HASport mounts, etc. PLUS the cost of the engine itself. This is definitely not the cheap swap.
FOR MORE DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT THE H22 SWAP PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING THREAD.
H22 Civic Swap Guide (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=332296)
F20B: This 2.0 liter engine is the rarest of all the swaps. It’s the JDM Accord Si-R engine and it produced a healthy 200hp. The reason I leave this for last is because finding one is like trying to find an unlit cigarette from the 70’s and finding parts for them are even harder. Although not impossible to swap though, it falls under the same category as the H22 swaps. In fact the mounts for swapping the H22 will also work on the F20B. I’ve never personally seen or even heard of this swap done so there has to be a reason for it. I would advise to consider other options.
Ok, So far we've covered the D16Z6, D16Y8, D15B7, B16A1, B16A2, B16A3, B16B, B17A, B18B1, B18C1, B18C5, H22A1 H23A1, H22A4 and the F20B. Talk about choices!!! But we're only half way through. Now we go to the second part of the swapping experience, which is cylinder head swapping. Sometimes called a Frankenstein, engine hybrid, mini-me or LS/VTEC swaps. Head swapping usually includes getting a Non-Vtec block (B18B, D15B) and taking the entire cylinder head assembly from a Vtec enabled block (B18C1, D16Z6) and swapping it onto the Non-Vtec block. Effectively giving the non-Vtec block Vtec capabilities just like his older brothers. Hence the name LS/VTEC. LS for Non-Vtec and Vtec for...Vtec :). It isn't easy though. The Vtec assemblies use oil to activate the system so oil lines will need to be tapped, the block and head need small preparations to flawlessly mate the two and the ECU from the Vtec enabled block will also be needed. So the grocery list includes the ENTIRE cylinder head set and everything attached to it, The intake manifold, throttle body, throttle cable, distributor, Vtec solenoid, EVERYTHING. You will also need the ECU, Vtec oil pump and various other lines and fittings and someone who's done this before. Here’s a great site that gets to the nitty gritty of the procedure: http://www.geocities.com/thelsvtec/
Now this opens up a whole new world of possibilities. But first you need to know the rules before continuing. These are:
1. A SOHC block cannot accept or be modified to accept a DOHC head. It just does not work. Block surface and the bottom of the head are totally different.
2. Only engines with the same letter association have compatible part. IE B-series with B-series and D-series with D-Series.
3. Don't do go cheap with this. This needs to be done right or you're left with an engine that leaks oil, has Vtec engagement problems and possibly valves that smash into pistons.
Head Swapping Cons:
There are of course downsides to mating two engine parts that were not designed to be together and expecting to work together. One of the main problems is that Vtec enabled blocks were designed to rev allot higher than their non-Vtec counterparts. Of the things Honda designed into the Vtec blocks to help them survive high rpm use are oil squirters. Oil squirters serve dual functions both as piston coolers and piston lubricators. Both of which are very important when revving to 9000 rpm. The lack of which could result in damage from prolonged high-rpm usage. Another aspect is that non-Vtec blocks usually have worse R/S ratios making the situation that much worse. The stock oil pump will also need to be replaced as it might not have enough pressure to satisfy both the block lubricating needs and the oil-activated Vtec assemblies. Valve clearance is another issue that needs to be addressed before you not only mate the head and block but also play with cam timing. The valve relief’s in the stock pistons are usually deep enough to accommodate the new longer travel of the Vtec valves but if they aren’t, they need to professionally widened or aftermarket pistons need to be used. And when using camshaft gears to tune cam shaft timing, each setting both 2 and 4 degrees advance and retard need to be tested for valve clearance as well. Failure to do so may cause the valve to crash into the piston when it arrives at TDC (Top Dead Center) which could bend it or chip it which may cause even more damage. Either way the head needs to pulled and repaired.
Head Swapping Pros:
One of the points of swapping in a Vtec head is they usually flow allot better than their non Vtec counter parts. And this can even be improved further with a port and polish. So with that in mind, the best flowing DOHC heads can be rated in this order:
1. B16B
2. B18C5
3. B16A
4. B18C1
The B16B head is by far the best head but it's rather expensive and rare. It's basically a B16A head with a factory P&P and lighter valvetrain assemblies among other things. This goes as well for the Integra Type R head. It's basically a GSR head with a factory port and polish, slighter better and lighter cams, valves, springs, etc. The best compromise for price and availability is the B16 head and the last one the list would be the GSR head. Of course it needs to be said that simply swapping the head onto your engine won't give you all the HP from the engine the head came from. Like swapping an GSR head onto an LS block won’t automatically give you 170hp. There were more changes to the engines than just the head like displacement, compression and air flow tracts. But it's still better than your stock head.
In reality, the majority of your engines power capabilities come from head design. This goes especially for naturally aspirated engines. With each one of these head swaps, you could completely redo all the components in the head to make the HP jump even greater. The exact changes of course depend on if you want to stay naturally aspirated or decide to take the plunge into forced induction. The details of both will be covered on another article. Also between the generations, small changes were made in an effort to produce more power and better mileage. Example, the SOHC head changed from the 5th generation to the 6th gen. In particular the quench area, the area where the compressed air and fuel collect when the piston reaches TDC, was changed to a more squared area. Rather than the circular area on the 5th gens, this new square quench area forces more of the A/F mixture closer to the spark plug which results in a cleaner and more powerful burn. These subtleties can greatly affect the overall power production of your new engine design.
So now, what are your greatest bang for the buck options? Let’s break them down by what engine you have:
D15's: Say you have a Dx or Cx engine, then you could go ahead and swap out the head for a D16Z6 head. You could probably get the whole swap for $300. The 6th geners with Cx’s or Dx’s can swap for a D16Y8 and build that for greater NA or FI power.
B16: Swapping the head on this engine isn’t really necessary since the head is already a top-notch design. What could be done is a head redesign (P&P, Cams, valves) or you could swap it for a B18C5 head, which is better, but not by much. This swap would be more for the WOW affect. Although a turbocharger or supercharger can both easily be installed on this engine and its air flow characteristics let it achieve more than 200 wheel hp.
B18B's: The GSR or B16 head swap would be ideal in these situations. Can also be turbocharged by using the kit designed for the head you swap in. But as mentioned before, the R/S ratio would still be a limiting factor in maximum power output.
B20B, B20Z: Now HERE'S where the real deal is. Since the giraffe intake on the B20B doesn't clear the hood, the head has to be swapped anyways, so you could use any of the choices above as well for the B20Z. My personal favorite, you swap in a B20 with lots of usable torque, then you swap in a modded B16 head and make a few ECU changes, like rev limiter and now you have lots of torque with Vtec high end and an 8000 redline. Or the low compression rate allows for decent turbocharging and you can achieve great heights with the B16 head flow.
H23A1: Generally the swap here is an H23 block with an H22 head swap. It makes for great Vtec high end and the larger displacement block makes for the biggest torque of all the engines listed here.
I could go so many ways in explaining head modification, NA, FI, procedures, Etc. But I tried to stay on subject and this is the civic owner engine swapper’s guide. Please feel free to ask questions or make corrections. :)
First off I need to mention a few things. When looking for your possible swap candidate, have a plan and research EVERYTHING. Find out as much info from as many sources as you can find. Now when putting $$$ aside for the swap, put aside as much as the components costs (Engine, transmission, etc), add shipping if necessary, then add atleast $1000 for small extra parts you might need and/or broken parts on the engine (PCV valves, distributor core, AC bracket, axles, shift linkage, new polyurethane mounts, etc), and finally calculate how much you’ll need to replace all the high wear components: Timing belt, plugs, oil pump, clutch, etc. Believe me, it’ll cost ALOT less to replace them now than if they break after you’ve installed the engine. You should buy the helms manual for the engine you plan to get to get a complete run down of all the technical stuff. AND before I forget, remember that your stock cooling system will most likely need to be upgraded in one way or the other to cool the new bigger engine. And plan on the safe side to be without the car for atleast 2 weeks. It shouldn’t take more than a weekend of work but something ALWAYS goes wrong. As we Hispanics say: “Dress yourself in patience” and expect the worst and you’ll be fine. :)
As for exactly what you need to complete the entire swap, unfortunately it changes slightly with each engine considered, which is why it’s extremely important to research exactly what you need, but here’s the general list:
1. Engine and all components attached to the engine. Cylinder head, alternator, distributor, AC pump if necessary, P/S pump if necessary, etc.
2. Transmission: It doesn’t necessarily have to be the tranny that came with the engine but you need to get atleast a transmission that will bolt up to the block. All transmissions of the same letter series tranny’s should bolt up like stock. At this point it would an excellent time to decide if you’d like to change your transmission from automatic to stickshift or vise versa. There are other threads available in the Civic FAQ that could help you with that.
3. ECU: It’s a vital link in the whole project and most of the times completely looked over. If you plan to swap the head of your engine, you need the ECU of the head you’re swapping in.
4. Shift Linkage: These rods connect the shifter knob to the transmission. Without them you couldn’t shift the tranny. They aren’t necessary with every swap but most of them do need them.
5. Axles: Makes sense that you need the axles that fit the transmission. They’re all different for each swap unfortunately. The axles that came with the engine aren’t going to necessarily work with your civic suspension. Research.
6. Mounts: Most of the swaps don’t need fabricated mounts but they do need the mounts that came with the engine. The H22 and F22 engines are different in that they need custom mounts from places like HASport or Place Racing.
7. Optional, Performance exhaust: Your stock exhaust, particularly your stock catalytic converter will act as a cork to your newfound power. Replacing it with a high performance exhaust will let the engine breathe at the very least to stock specs. In some cases however, the down pipe on the engine won’t match up perfectly with your catalytic converter. In which taking a trip down to the local muffler shop and making a custom exhaust system would be in order.
8. Fuel Pump: For some of the larger swaps, particularly the 2.2 liter series, the stock civic fuel pump will not be enough to meet the needs of the new engine. At the very least you need the pump of the engine you’re getting. If not get an upgraded aftermarket pump.
Two things that are very important that I need to discuss before we get into each engine are the Rod to Stroke ratio and OBD.
The Rod to Stroke ratio: This topic gets very complicated very quickly. Basically it’s the ratio of how long the rod is compared to the length of the entire rod stroke. The perfect ratio is 1.75. If the ratio is off, it means that the rod is not using 100% of it’s momentum to compress the air and gas mixture. It’s using more energy to push against the sides of the cylinder walls than to compress the fuel mixture. This is normally not too bad because things are very well lubricated in your engine. But when you change certain aspects of the engine, in particular increasing the ECU fuel cutoff point or going forced induction, the imperfect R/S ratio will cause more stress on the engine block and could eventually destroy it. A good R/S ratio also ensures long engine life. For a more in-depth look into the R/S ratio check out the following site: http://victorylibrary.com/tech/crod-c.htm
OBD stands for On Board Diagnostics. Most every modern car has a version of OBD and it’s basically an engine monitoring system. It consists of many different sensors in strategic locations that monitor various aspects of the engine’s performance. Some examples of the sensors are O2 sensors that monitor the air to fuel mixture, the throttle position sensor that senses how open the throttle plate is at any given moment, and intake temperature sensor that monitors the temperature of the intake air. All of these sensors are monitored by the ECU, the car’s brain monitors the OBD system and changes variables according to pre-programmed specifications. There are currently 3 versions of OBD and each version gets progressively more complex and stricter on the amount flexibility it will allow before taking action to prevent what it sees as a potentially engine damaging situation. OBD1 started with the 5th generation civic 1992-1995. OBD2 continued with the 6th generation 1996-2000 and the latest version is OBD3 and can be found on the 7th gen. civic 2001-???.
NOW, Let’s get to the engines starting with the smallest and cheapest candidates:
D16Z6, D16Y8, D15B7: If you have one of the lower and cheaper civic models, IE The Cx, Dx, Lx and If you're looking for a cheap power increase while still maintaining stock gas mileage then the possibility of swapping in one of the higher model civic engines is right up your alley. The D16Z6 is the SOHC 5th Gen. Si and Ex engine pushing 125hp @ 6600 rpm and 106 lb.-ft of torque @ 5200 rpm. The D16Y8 is the 6th gen. SOHC Ex engine pushing 127hp @ 6600 rpm and 107 lb.-ft of torque @ 5500 rpm. These are extremely easy to find since allot ppl swap them out in favor for more expensive engines. They bolt in like stock and the whole package could be had for hundreds (You might even find someone who’s recently swapped who would basically give away their engine). Let's say you want something cheap but you could work on for possibly turbo or nitrous? The D16Y8 is cheap and the pistons are the exact size of TT Supra pistons. They could substitute for forged versions and work just as well for a turbo upgrade. Be warned though as the D16Y8 has a particularly bad Rod to Stroke ratio at 1.52. I also suggest the B15B7 which is the 5th gen. Dx and Lx engine pushing 102hp @ 5900 rpm and 98 lb.-ft of torque @ 5000 rpm. If you have a 5th gen. Cx and you’re in need of the cheapest upgrade, this motor could be for you. Again you could probably find it for less than $500.
B16A1, B16A2, B16A3: If you need a little more power and have the money, the Civic Si and the del Sol VTEC engine are possibilities. They are all DOHC 1.6 liter engines pushing 160 hp @ 7600 rpm and 111lb.-ft of torque @ 7000 rpm. The A1 is the pre-obd engine that came with a cable transmission and various other pre 5th gen. items that need to be dealt with when considering the swap. The reason I point this out is because all 5th and 6th gen. civics came with hydraulic tranny's so think twice about this one. The upside is the cheap price. The A3 is the OBD1 engine out of the del Sol Vtec. These older models can be had for cheaper than OBD2 models and have upgraded various things such as hydro trannies. These are a perfect choice for the 5th genners. The A2 is the 99-00 Si engine. Same as the A3 only this one came with an upgraded OBD2 emissions system that is mandatory for all 96+ civic swappers. The B16A1 could be had for around $1200. The B16A3 could be found for about $2000-$2500 and the newer B16A2 could be found for around $2500-$3000.
They all lack a sufficient amount of torque due to their small displacement but their small mass and a bad ass R/S ratio of 1.74 allows them to rev to astronomical proportions. They also all have a HUGE aftermarket support. The only thing I don’t like about this particular swap is that this seems to be only one ppl think of. Whenever they want to swap engines, they all go for the B16. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great engine but there are other engines out there to consider. I’ve even known ppl to be disappointed because they expected more. That’s what this article if for :)
B16B: Often regarded as the best 1.6 liter engine in the world, the JDM Civic Type R engine is the rarest of them all. Producing a whopping 185hp @ 8200 rpm and a reasonable 120 lb.-ft of torque @ 7600 rpm and being naturally aspirated, it is technical marvel. It was only available on the 1999-2000 Civic Type R and having one imported will run you easily into the $6000+ range. But you will be WELL respected and large thief magnet when ppl find out. If you have the money and like spending it on high octane gas for your 4 banger, why not?
B17A, B18B1: The B17A could be found on the 92-93 GSR producing 160hp @ 7600 rpm and 117 lb.-ft @ 7000 rpm. The B18B1 is the later model Integra LS, RS, and GS engines. They don't offer huge power outputs at 142hp @ 6300 rpm and 127 lb.-ft @ 5200 rpm, But they can be had for very cheap as they are plentiful and not really sought after by many ppl. The exception being for the B17A as it did have greater power output but they can still be had for cheap as they are generally older and in worse shape compared to the newer B18’s. Anyone of these should still offer a cheap, reliable power upgrade for your small civic. Anyone of these engines could be found for under $2000. The downside to these cheaper engines is their Rod to Stroke ratio. The B17 isn’t that bad but the B18B1 has a R/S ratio of 1.54. This does considerably reduce the maximum possible power output from these engines. But if you don't plan on turbocharging this engine past 15 psi or letting it rev to 11,000 rpm, then it should meet your modest power needs.
B18C1: Probably the most highly sought after swap candidate, this powerful little engine came on the late model Integra GSR and produced a hefty 170hp @ 7600 rpm and 128lbs-ft @ 6200 rpm. It is rather expensive at around $3000-$3500 and they are a little on the rare side considering everyone wants one, but a simple swap and your pocket rocket will be pushing high 14's with a stock engine. Even more by adding the small bolt-ons. And greddy has a bolt on intercooled turbocharger kit that'll give around 240 wheel hp. Which should put you deep into the 13 second range, possibly high 12's. This is the most desired swap candidate.
B18C5: This naturally aspirated wonder came on the late model Integra Type R and produced an even greater 195 hp @ 8100 rpm and about 130 lb.-ft of torque @ 7500 rpm. This is even more highly sought after than the GSR engine. And would in fact be more popular if it wasn't for its $5000+ price tag. But if you could afford it, there are few engines that would be as painless and give you the fastest performance available for the civic. This regarded as the naturally aspirated wonder because it does well producing large amounts of power without the need for snailshell's. Although a turbocharger can be bolted on to this bad-boy, it's generally not recommended, as this is a very high compression engine. If you were to used forced induction on such a high compression engine, you would either have to build it accordingly, have a REALLY good engine management system ($$$) or watch it blow up on the first run. The C1 is better suited for forced induction and would cost less in the long run.
B20B, B20Z: The B20 engine is the newcomer in the game and is highly acclaimed by its supporters. It has several key characteristics that give this engine real potential no matter what route you decide to persue. The B20B came on the 1996-1998 CRV and the B20Z came on 1999-2000 CRV. The B20B made 126 hp but the real jewel was the 133lbs of torque that was easily achieved almost anywhere in the RPM band. It is a small displacement engine that has flat torque line!!! Additionally it was a comparatively low compression engine which means that turbocharging to decent levels is possible without the need to spend hundreds on rods or pistons. The B20Z was more or less the same as the B20B but they changed several head characteristics and the compression was bumped up to increase the horsepower to 146.
There are really two choices for dealing the B20 as far as power goes. You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model. The cylinder head on the B20B model (particularly the tall intake manifold) doesn't clear the hoodline of the civic, which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion. This is what I consider to be the ultimate engine build-up for civics’. You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. The first thing you need to know about B-series engine (B18, B16, B20) is that they all have, for the most part, interchangeable engine parts. So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75 which allows for great naturally aspirated performance (A HUGE redline) or the ability to turbocharge the engine to very large proportions without worrying about engine stability. It is unfortunately rather expensive but this setup will take you anywhere you want to go. The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
Unless you’re simply happy with the stock B20 swap, the only reasons it should be considered are CRVTEC conversions or Forced Induction. The aftermarket support isn’t as plentiful for the B20 as it is for the other engine mentioned so any engine upgrades usually come from other B series or upgraded aftermarket parts for other B series. Which is more less slowly building a CRVTEC engine. But I still highly recommend this engine for the best bang for the buck power adder. Here’s a techy article on the B20 for you: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/crv-b20b-info-n-rod-stroke-ratio.htm
H22A1, H23A1, H22A4: The H23A1 came on the lude Si’s, the highly acclaimed H22A1 came on the 4th gen Si VTEC models and H22A4 came on the 5th generation Si VTEC’s.. And all three engines are MONSTERS compared to what we’re used to. The H22A1 produces a nice 190 hp while the H22A4 produces an even greater 195hp and the H23A1 produces 160hp but they all produce a THICK ASS 160 lb.-ft of torque at relatively low rpm. Giving your 2500lb civic wheel spinning capabilities comparable to a V8 F-body. The whole engine should cost about the same as a GSR swap, $3000-$3500. The down side is the fact that the engine also weighs about 200 lbs. more than the engine you have in your bay now. This effectively makes your weight distribution even worse than what it was before. This causes all types of havoc with your other systems, including suspension, braking and cooling. The engine is also of course very large in size so it's a tight fit into the tiny civic engine bay providing that you make space by removing both air-conditioning and power steering systems.
From talks with several veteran H22 swappers I can give you the overall driving opinion. To make the swap work, first off the springs and shocks in the front need to be stiffened to appropriately handle the extra weight. The overall suspension tuning should concentrate on trying to create heavy oversteer to offset the natural understeer problem the extra weight will create. There is another way to offset the understeer problem but most ppl don't want to go through with it. It involves placing a few hundred pounds of weight in the trunk to even out the weight distribution. But most ppl want to go the other way by stripping everything out of the interior, effectively making it worse. The cooling system will amazingly enough be fine for about 75% of the time. However, on hot days or with spirited driving, the engine can start to overheat itself. For the financially strapped, an extra wide Integra radiator can be swapped in for about $100 that will provide all the extra cooling you need. You can learn about it here: http://www.hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/jsrad/jsrad.html. If you have the extra money, you could swap in an all aluminum thick ass racing radiator with a smaller and more efficient fan and for extra insurance, a low temperature thermostat (160 degree rather than 180) could be replaced. Considering you no longer have air-conditioning the extra space that was once used by the AC condenser could be put to good use and it could be used for an external oil cooler. With this setup you could go uphill mountain racing without fear overheating. The braking system for the most part could work but if you really want to trust your life to stock system, be my guest. If you'd like to upgrade it, the cheap way is to replace the rotors for better heat dissipation (You could either get stock sized cross-drilled or slotted rotors, or you could opt for a bigger rotor kit that uses a relocated bracket so you can use the stock calipers) better brake pads and rear brake disk swap if not already equipped (Instructions HERE (http://www.hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/brakeswap.html)). If you have some money, you could get a 4-piston caliper upgrade with extra large rotors with great pads. Just the thing to stop you at 150 mph. If you do opt for the bigger rotor upgrade, remember that the stock wheels will no longer fit over the larger brakes. Some systems suggest 16” or larger.
Let me remind you that this is all extra $$$. The basic swap still includes about $1000 worth of junkyard parts just to make it work, which includes axles, linkages, ECU, HASport mounts, etc. PLUS the cost of the engine itself. This is definitely not the cheap swap.
FOR MORE DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT THE H22 SWAP PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING THREAD.
H22 Civic Swap Guide (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=332296)
F20B: This 2.0 liter engine is the rarest of all the swaps. It’s the JDM Accord Si-R engine and it produced a healthy 200hp. The reason I leave this for last is because finding one is like trying to find an unlit cigarette from the 70’s and finding parts for them are even harder. Although not impossible to swap though, it falls under the same category as the H22 swaps. In fact the mounts for swapping the H22 will also work on the F20B. I’ve never personally seen or even heard of this swap done so there has to be a reason for it. I would advise to consider other options.
Ok, So far we've covered the D16Z6, D16Y8, D15B7, B16A1, B16A2, B16A3, B16B, B17A, B18B1, B18C1, B18C5, H22A1 H23A1, H22A4 and the F20B. Talk about choices!!! But we're only half way through. Now we go to the second part of the swapping experience, which is cylinder head swapping. Sometimes called a Frankenstein, engine hybrid, mini-me or LS/VTEC swaps. Head swapping usually includes getting a Non-Vtec block (B18B, D15B) and taking the entire cylinder head assembly from a Vtec enabled block (B18C1, D16Z6) and swapping it onto the Non-Vtec block. Effectively giving the non-Vtec block Vtec capabilities just like his older brothers. Hence the name LS/VTEC. LS for Non-Vtec and Vtec for...Vtec :). It isn't easy though. The Vtec assemblies use oil to activate the system so oil lines will need to be tapped, the block and head need small preparations to flawlessly mate the two and the ECU from the Vtec enabled block will also be needed. So the grocery list includes the ENTIRE cylinder head set and everything attached to it, The intake manifold, throttle body, throttle cable, distributor, Vtec solenoid, EVERYTHING. You will also need the ECU, Vtec oil pump and various other lines and fittings and someone who's done this before. Here’s a great site that gets to the nitty gritty of the procedure: http://www.geocities.com/thelsvtec/
Now this opens up a whole new world of possibilities. But first you need to know the rules before continuing. These are:
1. A SOHC block cannot accept or be modified to accept a DOHC head. It just does not work. Block surface and the bottom of the head are totally different.
2. Only engines with the same letter association have compatible part. IE B-series with B-series and D-series with D-Series.
3. Don't do go cheap with this. This needs to be done right or you're left with an engine that leaks oil, has Vtec engagement problems and possibly valves that smash into pistons.
Head Swapping Cons:
There are of course downsides to mating two engine parts that were not designed to be together and expecting to work together. One of the main problems is that Vtec enabled blocks were designed to rev allot higher than their non-Vtec counterparts. Of the things Honda designed into the Vtec blocks to help them survive high rpm use are oil squirters. Oil squirters serve dual functions both as piston coolers and piston lubricators. Both of which are very important when revving to 9000 rpm. The lack of which could result in damage from prolonged high-rpm usage. Another aspect is that non-Vtec blocks usually have worse R/S ratios making the situation that much worse. The stock oil pump will also need to be replaced as it might not have enough pressure to satisfy both the block lubricating needs and the oil-activated Vtec assemblies. Valve clearance is another issue that needs to be addressed before you not only mate the head and block but also play with cam timing. The valve relief’s in the stock pistons are usually deep enough to accommodate the new longer travel of the Vtec valves but if they aren’t, they need to professionally widened or aftermarket pistons need to be used. And when using camshaft gears to tune cam shaft timing, each setting both 2 and 4 degrees advance and retard need to be tested for valve clearance as well. Failure to do so may cause the valve to crash into the piston when it arrives at TDC (Top Dead Center) which could bend it or chip it which may cause even more damage. Either way the head needs to pulled and repaired.
Head Swapping Pros:
One of the points of swapping in a Vtec head is they usually flow allot better than their non Vtec counter parts. And this can even be improved further with a port and polish. So with that in mind, the best flowing DOHC heads can be rated in this order:
1. B16B
2. B18C5
3. B16A
4. B18C1
The B16B head is by far the best head but it's rather expensive and rare. It's basically a B16A head with a factory P&P and lighter valvetrain assemblies among other things. This goes as well for the Integra Type R head. It's basically a GSR head with a factory port and polish, slighter better and lighter cams, valves, springs, etc. The best compromise for price and availability is the B16 head and the last one the list would be the GSR head. Of course it needs to be said that simply swapping the head onto your engine won't give you all the HP from the engine the head came from. Like swapping an GSR head onto an LS block won’t automatically give you 170hp. There were more changes to the engines than just the head like displacement, compression and air flow tracts. But it's still better than your stock head.
In reality, the majority of your engines power capabilities come from head design. This goes especially for naturally aspirated engines. With each one of these head swaps, you could completely redo all the components in the head to make the HP jump even greater. The exact changes of course depend on if you want to stay naturally aspirated or decide to take the plunge into forced induction. The details of both will be covered on another article. Also between the generations, small changes were made in an effort to produce more power and better mileage. Example, the SOHC head changed from the 5th generation to the 6th gen. In particular the quench area, the area where the compressed air and fuel collect when the piston reaches TDC, was changed to a more squared area. Rather than the circular area on the 5th gens, this new square quench area forces more of the A/F mixture closer to the spark plug which results in a cleaner and more powerful burn. These subtleties can greatly affect the overall power production of your new engine design.
So now, what are your greatest bang for the buck options? Let’s break them down by what engine you have:
D15's: Say you have a Dx or Cx engine, then you could go ahead and swap out the head for a D16Z6 head. You could probably get the whole swap for $300. The 6th geners with Cx’s or Dx’s can swap for a D16Y8 and build that for greater NA or FI power.
B16: Swapping the head on this engine isn’t really necessary since the head is already a top-notch design. What could be done is a head redesign (P&P, Cams, valves) or you could swap it for a B18C5 head, which is better, but not by much. This swap would be more for the WOW affect. Although a turbocharger or supercharger can both easily be installed on this engine and its air flow characteristics let it achieve more than 200 wheel hp.
B18B's: The GSR or B16 head swap would be ideal in these situations. Can also be turbocharged by using the kit designed for the head you swap in. But as mentioned before, the R/S ratio would still be a limiting factor in maximum power output.
B20B, B20Z: Now HERE'S where the real deal is. Since the giraffe intake on the B20B doesn't clear the hood, the head has to be swapped anyways, so you could use any of the choices above as well for the B20Z. My personal favorite, you swap in a B20 with lots of usable torque, then you swap in a modded B16 head and make a few ECU changes, like rev limiter and now you have lots of torque with Vtec high end and an 8000 redline. Or the low compression rate allows for decent turbocharging and you can achieve great heights with the B16 head flow.
H23A1: Generally the swap here is an H23 block with an H22 head swap. It makes for great Vtec high end and the larger displacement block makes for the biggest torque of all the engines listed here.
I could go so many ways in explaining head modification, NA, FI, procedures, Etc. But I tried to stay on subject and this is the civic owner engine swapper’s guide. Please feel free to ask questions or make corrections. :)
piscorpio
01-02-2002, 04:05 PM
Nice post man! Im just kinda bummed that my D16y8 is nothing more than a cheap second rate swap alternative! :D
I do have a question about R/S ratio though. Is it possible to get my engine (1.54 R/S?) closer to the ideal 1.75 ratio? If so, how is this done? Also. is 1.75 always the perfect ratio? (Does it apply for any set up NA or FI?)
I do have a question about R/S ratio though. Is it possible to get my engine (1.54 R/S?) closer to the ideal 1.75 ratio? If so, how is this done? Also. is 1.75 always the perfect ratio? (Does it apply for any set up NA or FI?)
ric
01-02-2002, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by Hybrid Boy
same here..... i might wanna go ls/vtec in the future... bu i hear the high revs from the vtec head hurt the ls block
sleeving the block or at least using a block guard should help the sideloading problem out (unless you have the money for custom crankshaft fabrication). the only problem that remains is the oiling problem....b18b blocks dont have the oil squiters vtec blocks have
same here..... i might wanna go ls/vtec in the future... bu i hear the high revs from the vtec head hurt the ls block
sleeving the block or at least using a block guard should help the sideloading problem out (unless you have the money for custom crankshaft fabrication). the only problem that remains is the oiling problem....b18b blocks dont have the oil squiters vtec blocks have
Rice-Rocketeer
01-02-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by piscorpio
Nice post man! Im just kinda bummed that my D16y8 is nothing more than a cheap second rate swap alternative! :D
I do have a question about R/S ratio though. Is it possible to get my engine (1.54 R/S?) closer to the ideal 1.75 ratio? If so, how is this done? Also. is 1.75 always the perfect ratio? (Does it apply for any set up NA or FI?)
The only engines discussed that have near perfect R/S ratios are the B16A and B16B. The rest (including the B20) have to be destroked to achieve the numbers. With the B20 what you do is get a crankshaft from a B17 and custom length rods. There you've changed both the rod length and rod stroke length. To do the same to your D16 you need to crunch some numbers and find out how to change the crankshaft (possibly by getting another shaft from another honda) and then figuring out how long the rod needs to be. Like I said, it gets really technical and this case, very expensive. You're more or less designing your own engine dynamics. It'd be alot cheaper to just get a B16. As for the block gaurd, yes this would definitly help. But if you want to make SO much power from that engine that the R/S ratio is an issue to you, the block guard was already neccesary even with a good R/S ratio. Get my point?
Nice post man! Im just kinda bummed that my D16y8 is nothing more than a cheap second rate swap alternative! :D
I do have a question about R/S ratio though. Is it possible to get my engine (1.54 R/S?) closer to the ideal 1.75 ratio? If so, how is this done? Also. is 1.75 always the perfect ratio? (Does it apply for any set up NA or FI?)
The only engines discussed that have near perfect R/S ratios are the B16A and B16B. The rest (including the B20) have to be destroked to achieve the numbers. With the B20 what you do is get a crankshaft from a B17 and custom length rods. There you've changed both the rod length and rod stroke length. To do the same to your D16 you need to crunch some numbers and find out how to change the crankshaft (possibly by getting another shaft from another honda) and then figuring out how long the rod needs to be. Like I said, it gets really technical and this case, very expensive. You're more or less designing your own engine dynamics. It'd be alot cheaper to just get a B16. As for the block gaurd, yes this would definitly help. But if you want to make SO much power from that engine that the R/S ratio is an issue to you, the block guard was already neccesary even with a good R/S ratio. Get my point?
Rice-Rocketeer
01-02-2002, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by piscorpio
Also. is 1.75 always the perfect ratio? (Does it apply for any set up NA or FI?)
Oh yeah I forgot to answer the second part. Yep. For diesel engines, Ford V8's or Hondas, 1.75 is always the ideal number. And the 1.75 ratio lets the engine climb to great rpms (B16) for NA power. And it also lets you boost your engine more without worrying as much about the stress on the rods and pistons. You could essentially boost it higher without getting beefed up rods and not destroying it.
Also. is 1.75 always the perfect ratio? (Does it apply for any set up NA or FI?)
Oh yeah I forgot to answer the second part. Yep. For diesel engines, Ford V8's or Hondas, 1.75 is always the ideal number. And the 1.75 ratio lets the engine climb to great rpms (B16) for NA power. And it also lets you boost your engine more without worrying as much about the stress on the rods and pistons. You could essentially boost it higher without getting beefed up rods and not destroying it.
piscorpio
01-02-2002, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Oh yeah I forgot to answer the second part. Yep. For diesel engines, Ford V8's or Hondas, 1.75 is always the ideal number. And the 1.75 ratio lets the engine climb to great rpms (B16) for NA power. And it also lets you boost your engine more without worrying as much about the stress on the rods and pistons. You could essentially boost it higher without getting beefed up rods and not destroying it.
Ah, I see. So I take it you can not change the R/S ratio, due to physical restrictions in the engines design, and stronger rods and pistons are just a way to get around it. R/S ratio is what it is then, and you cant change that, just make the parts stronger? I think I understand it, but correct me if Im wrong.
Oh yeah I forgot to answer the second part. Yep. For diesel engines, Ford V8's or Hondas, 1.75 is always the ideal number. And the 1.75 ratio lets the engine climb to great rpms (B16) for NA power. And it also lets you boost your engine more without worrying as much about the stress on the rods and pistons. You could essentially boost it higher without getting beefed up rods and not destroying it.
Ah, I see. So I take it you can not change the R/S ratio, due to physical restrictions in the engines design, and stronger rods and pistons are just a way to get around it. R/S ratio is what it is then, and you cant change that, just make the parts stronger? I think I understand it, but correct me if Im wrong.
Rice-Rocketeer
01-02-2002, 11:41 PM
Nono, As I said in the first post, you can change anything you want about the engine. The only problem is you need to know what you're doing. If you don't, you need to get someone that does and having them fabricate stuff for you will cost you thousands. Now to change the R/S ratio you need to change both the rod length and the rod stroke length. To do this you need to get custom length rods (Not too hard) and you need to have your engine destroked. It's exactly like a stroker kit (And as expensive as well) you get a new crankshaft and various other bearings and things and this new crankshaft needs to be of a specific size. It's all math is what it is. If you can crunch the numbers and figure out what length rods with what crankshaft you need to get the magical 1.75 then you have no problem.
The problem is ppl goto college and spend years around race cars to learn this stuff. Think of this magic number as the point where everything is balanced. When you blueprint and balance an engine, you are relieving stress in a lot of areas because as unbalanced engine reciprocating components climb the rpm range, they get more and more unstable until they exceed the stress levels of the block and destroy themselves. Try to imagine an engine that's missing a piston rev to 10,000 rpm. Now imagine not climbing to 10,000 rpm but strapping a turbocharger onto this unstable engine. As the rpms climb, the extra force on the components will make things MUCH worse. It'll make the engine even more off balance than it was and it'll destroy itself with normal usage.
When you change the R/S ratio, you essentially have an engine that's fully balanced. And when you do that, the stress on other components that are not involved in the power making process is relieved. A fully balanced engine can rev higher and take more boost before engine components exceed thier maximum stress levels. Simply beefing up components on an imperfect engine is only a bandaid. It's not the solution to the problem.
But like I said before, if you're going to squeeze that much power out of your engine that R/S ratio is a concern, then you should be starting with a better base. You only need to worry about the stress the D16Y8's imperfect ratio will create if you plan to make some serious power OR want to keep the engine for 300,000 miles. For your average honda enthusiast, You shoudn't need to worry about such things. Like I argued in some other post, you could do an LS/VTEC swap, do the usual bolt ons and get forged rods and pistons. Rev limit it to 7500-8000 rpm and tune it accordingly, and you'll still have 200 wheel hp from a rather reliable engine. If you plan to make a 500hp dragster then start with a better base.
The problem is ppl goto college and spend years around race cars to learn this stuff. Think of this magic number as the point where everything is balanced. When you blueprint and balance an engine, you are relieving stress in a lot of areas because as unbalanced engine reciprocating components climb the rpm range, they get more and more unstable until they exceed the stress levels of the block and destroy themselves. Try to imagine an engine that's missing a piston rev to 10,000 rpm. Now imagine not climbing to 10,000 rpm but strapping a turbocharger onto this unstable engine. As the rpms climb, the extra force on the components will make things MUCH worse. It'll make the engine even more off balance than it was and it'll destroy itself with normal usage.
When you change the R/S ratio, you essentially have an engine that's fully balanced. And when you do that, the stress on other components that are not involved in the power making process is relieved. A fully balanced engine can rev higher and take more boost before engine components exceed thier maximum stress levels. Simply beefing up components on an imperfect engine is only a bandaid. It's not the solution to the problem.
But like I said before, if you're going to squeeze that much power out of your engine that R/S ratio is a concern, then you should be starting with a better base. You only need to worry about the stress the D16Y8's imperfect ratio will create if you plan to make some serious power OR want to keep the engine for 300,000 miles. For your average honda enthusiast, You shoudn't need to worry about such things. Like I argued in some other post, you could do an LS/VTEC swap, do the usual bolt ons and get forged rods and pistons. Rev limit it to 7500-8000 rpm and tune it accordingly, and you'll still have 200 wheel hp from a rather reliable engine. If you plan to make a 500hp dragster then start with a better base.
ric
01-03-2002, 12:06 AM
there are some strange exceptions though. when your goin f/i as you know the most force produced is at bdc of the power stroke....wierd thing though is once you reach about 15psi the force shifts inbetween bdc and 20 degrees before depending on the circumstance.
just thought i would add that
just thought i would add that
Rice-Rocketeer
01-03-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by xivera
Uhmm... Cliff notes anyone!? :hehe:
I thought of it but I don't think something likt this should be put into cliff notes. There are a lot of things that need to be known before you seriously consider swapping and ppl would read the cliff notes and then either say "Ok I know enough" or start asking questions that I already answer in here. If they really want to know everything about swapping, then READ. Being lazy will cost you more money. The ppl that are really interested will take the time.
But I know it was just a suggestion, I'm not biting your head off :)
Originally posted by i like naked girls
there are some strange exceptions though. when your goin f/i as you know the most force produced is at bdc of the power stroke....wierd thing though is once you reach about 15psi the force shifts inbetween bdc and 20 degrees before depending on the circumstance.
The culprit is probably the drastic delta pressure changes that the engine experiences under heavy boost. Meaning under heavy boost, the pressure wave probably hits the piston faster than normal which would be 20 degrees before BDC. I've actually been thinking about that.
How fast does the pressure wave move under boost and at which point would the pressure wave ricochet back up. Should the valves close right at BDC or maybe a little after and hope the momentum keeps forcing the air into the cylinder? Or is that strictly an NA thing. Kinda like exhaust scavenging. OR is the pressure moving so fast that by the time the piston hits BDC, the wave has already moved back up to the valves and actually causing intake reversion???
I really need to go to school for this stuff. I love it. :cool:
Uhmm... Cliff notes anyone!? :hehe:
I thought of it but I don't think something likt this should be put into cliff notes. There are a lot of things that need to be known before you seriously consider swapping and ppl would read the cliff notes and then either say "Ok I know enough" or start asking questions that I already answer in here. If they really want to know everything about swapping, then READ. Being lazy will cost you more money. The ppl that are really interested will take the time.
But I know it was just a suggestion, I'm not biting your head off :)
Originally posted by i like naked girls
there are some strange exceptions though. when your goin f/i as you know the most force produced is at bdc of the power stroke....wierd thing though is once you reach about 15psi the force shifts inbetween bdc and 20 degrees before depending on the circumstance.
The culprit is probably the drastic delta pressure changes that the engine experiences under heavy boost. Meaning under heavy boost, the pressure wave probably hits the piston faster than normal which would be 20 degrees before BDC. I've actually been thinking about that.
How fast does the pressure wave move under boost and at which point would the pressure wave ricochet back up. Should the valves close right at BDC or maybe a little after and hope the momentum keeps forcing the air into the cylinder? Or is that strictly an NA thing. Kinda like exhaust scavenging. OR is the pressure moving so fast that by the time the piston hits BDC, the wave has already moved back up to the valves and actually causing intake reversion???
I really need to go to school for this stuff. I love it. :cool:
piscorpio
01-03-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
Nono, As I said in the first post, you can change anything you want about the engine. The only problem is you need to know what you're doing. If you don't, you need to get someone that does and having them fabricate stuff for you will cost you thousands. Now to change the R/S ratio you need to change both the rod length and the rod stroke length. To do this you need to get custom length rods (Not too hard) and you need to have your engine destroked. It's exactly like a stroker kit (And as expensive as well) you get a new crankshaft and various other bearings and things and this new crankshaft needs to be of a specific size. It's all math is what it is. If you can crunch the numbers and figure out what length rods with what crankshaft you need to get the magical 1.75 then you have no problem.
The problem is ppl goto college and spend years around race cars to learn this stuff. Think of this magic number as the point where everything is balanced. When you blueprint and balance an engine, you are relieving stress in a lot of areas because as unbalanced engine reciprocating components climb the rpm range, they get more and more unstable until they exceed the stress levels of the block and destroy themselves. Try to imagine an engine that's missing a piston rev to 10,000 rpm. Now imagine not climbing to 10,000 rpm but strapping a turbocharger onto this unstable engine. As the rpms climb, the extra force on the components will make things MUCH worse. It'll make the engine even more off balance than it was and it'll destroy itself with normal usage.
When you change the R/S ratio, you essentially have an engine that's fully balanced. And when you do that, the stress on other components that are not involved in the power making process is relieved. A fully balanced engine can rev higher and take more boost before engine components exceed thier maximum stress levels. Simply beefing up components on an imperfect engine is only a bandaid. It's not the solution to the problem.
But like I said before, if you're going to squeeze that much power out of your engine that R/S ratio is a concern, then you should be starting with a better base. You only need to worry about the stress the D16Y8's imperfect ratio will create if you plan to make some serious power OR want to keep the engine for 300,000 miles. For your average honda enthusiast, You shoudn't need to worry about such things. Like I argued in some other post, you could do an LS/VTEC swap, do the usual bolt ons and get forged rods and pistons. Rev limit it to 7500-8000 rpm and tune it accordingly, and you'll still have 200 wheel hp from a rather reliable engine. If you plan to make a 500hp dragster then start with a better base.
I am so sorry RR, you know I totally overlooked your first reply!! I understand completely what you are saying now. Thanks for writing this thread up man, its kind of opened up a new area of technical info for me, something new to learn about. (which Im always up for)
Nono, As I said in the first post, you can change anything you want about the engine. The only problem is you need to know what you're doing. If you don't, you need to get someone that does and having them fabricate stuff for you will cost you thousands. Now to change the R/S ratio you need to change both the rod length and the rod stroke length. To do this you need to get custom length rods (Not too hard) and you need to have your engine destroked. It's exactly like a stroker kit (And as expensive as well) you get a new crankshaft and various other bearings and things and this new crankshaft needs to be of a specific size. It's all math is what it is. If you can crunch the numbers and figure out what length rods with what crankshaft you need to get the magical 1.75 then you have no problem.
The problem is ppl goto college and spend years around race cars to learn this stuff. Think of this magic number as the point where everything is balanced. When you blueprint and balance an engine, you are relieving stress in a lot of areas because as unbalanced engine reciprocating components climb the rpm range, they get more and more unstable until they exceed the stress levels of the block and destroy themselves. Try to imagine an engine that's missing a piston rev to 10,000 rpm. Now imagine not climbing to 10,000 rpm but strapping a turbocharger onto this unstable engine. As the rpms climb, the extra force on the components will make things MUCH worse. It'll make the engine even more off balance than it was and it'll destroy itself with normal usage.
When you change the R/S ratio, you essentially have an engine that's fully balanced. And when you do that, the stress on other components that are not involved in the power making process is relieved. A fully balanced engine can rev higher and take more boost before engine components exceed thier maximum stress levels. Simply beefing up components on an imperfect engine is only a bandaid. It's not the solution to the problem.
But like I said before, if you're going to squeeze that much power out of your engine that R/S ratio is a concern, then you should be starting with a better base. You only need to worry about the stress the D16Y8's imperfect ratio will create if you plan to make some serious power OR want to keep the engine for 300,000 miles. For your average honda enthusiast, You shoudn't need to worry about such things. Like I argued in some other post, you could do an LS/VTEC swap, do the usual bolt ons and get forged rods and pistons. Rev limit it to 7500-8000 rpm and tune it accordingly, and you'll still have 200 wheel hp from a rather reliable engine. If you plan to make a 500hp dragster then start with a better base.
I am so sorry RR, you know I totally overlooked your first reply!! I understand completely what you are saying now. Thanks for writing this thread up man, its kind of opened up a new area of technical info for me, something new to learn about. (which Im always up for)
Rice-Rocketeer
01-04-2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by piscorpio
I am so sorry RR, you know I totally overlooked your first reply!! I understand completely what you are saying now. Thanks for writing this thread up man, its kind of opened up a new area of technical info for me, something new to learn about. (which Im always up for)
Which is why I'm here. No Problem :)
I am so sorry RR, you know I totally overlooked your first reply!! I understand completely what you are saying now. Thanks for writing this thread up man, its kind of opened up a new area of technical info for me, something new to learn about. (which Im always up for)
Which is why I'm here. No Problem :)
mikeowen
03-22-2002, 11:28 AM
what is the greddy turbo kit you talk about for the b18c. sounds awesomebut i couldnt find it on their website. y6ou have alink or something. if not what kind of price would tha be?
oh yeah awesome post. everything a newbie could want.
oh yeah awesome post. everything a newbie could want.
Mirt3
12-19-2002, 12:59 AM
good info. so i have a 92 lx (D15 i guess). about how much hp would be produced from swapping a D16Z6 head? is this a more cost effecient mod than i\h\e? thx
lowprofileauto
01-07-2003, 06:45 PM
and if you all wanted to know you can fit a h22 in a civic i have a 93 honda civic and it can be done been there done it..granted it was some work but trust me you will be suprised on the outcome of the project of the works..custom fab motor mount brakets and was happy with the out come of my project.. and all the work was done at my shop so let me know what you all think
lewdaka03
01-16-2003, 03:26 PM
Excelente post but do ha anyinfo on put any engine in to the new gen hondas 01-02 civics:confused:
jcrx
03-09-2003, 02:29 PM
B16A1, B16A2, B16A3: If you need a little more power and have the money, the Civic Si and the del Sol VTEC engine are possibilities. They are all DOHC 1.6 liter engines pushing 160 hp @ 7600 rpm and 111lb.-ft of torque @ 7000 rpm. The A1 is the pre-obd engine that came with a cable transmission and various other pre 5th gen. items that need to be dealt with when considering the swap. The reason I point this out is because all 5th and 6th gen. civics came with hydraulic tranny's so think twice about this one. The upside is the cheap price. The A3 is the OBD1 engine out of the del Sol Vtec. These older models can be had for cheaper than OBD2 models and have upgraded various things such as hydro trannies. These are a perfect choice for the 5th genners. The A2 is the 99-00 Si engine. Same as the A3 only this one came with an upgraded OBD2 emissions system that is mandatory for all 96+ civic swappers. The B16A1 could be had for around $1200. The B16A3 could be found for about $2000-$2500 and the newer B16A2 could be found for around $2500-$3000.
A couple things that were left out,such as the B16A2 99-00 si is actually OBD IIb,requiring slight wiring to get it in a pre 99 vehicle.
The B16A3 is OBD I until the 96-97 then it is OBD II
The B16A3 will need shiftlinkage from a B series teg/JDM,EDM civic to fit into a civic,since the delsol's is a different shape.
And the compression from the JDM,EDM B16A siRII is higher,resulting in a slightly higher hp rating of around 170.
A couple things that were left out,such as the B16A2 99-00 si is actually OBD IIb,requiring slight wiring to get it in a pre 99 vehicle.
The B16A3 is OBD I until the 96-97 then it is OBD II
The B16A3 will need shiftlinkage from a B series teg/JDM,EDM civic to fit into a civic,since the delsol's is a different shape.
And the compression from the JDM,EDM B16A siRII is higher,resulting in a slightly higher hp rating of around 170.
teamcivic
03-17-2003, 09:32 PM
i have 97 civic ex coupe with the engine code d16y8 and i want to swap jdm b18c into my civic. do i have to do any mod on the wiring with the ecu, especially with the vtec. can u give me more detail about it and one more with the engine mount do i have to replace the engine mount too.
thank u
thank u
whiteracer
03-20-2003, 11:13 AM
i got a '98 vtec Civic. What kind of motor/engine do i have? There's a shop within walking distance to my house that does engine swaps and they have a list of all the ones available. Should i keep my engine and just go with regular mods? I'll go with $2k for my budget.
jcrx
03-20-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by whiteracer
i got a '98 vtec Civic. What kind of motor/engine do i have? There's a shop within walking distance to my house that does engine swaps and they have a list of all the ones available. Should i keep my engine and just go with regular mods? I'll go with $2k for my budget.
Read the post right above yours,same car you have a D16Y8,and you can swap any OBD II B series or H series in with relative ease.But if your motor is good then unless you just have to have a faster car I'd get a turbo for the same price and be faster.
TEAMCIVIC:the GSR you'd also have to add the IAB.You're car is already vtec so you don't have to run any extra vtec wires.And you can use the motors mounts.
i got a '98 vtec Civic. What kind of motor/engine do i have? There's a shop within walking distance to my house that does engine swaps and they have a list of all the ones available. Should i keep my engine and just go with regular mods? I'll go with $2k for my budget.
Read the post right above yours,same car you have a D16Y8,and you can swap any OBD II B series or H series in with relative ease.But if your motor is good then unless you just have to have a faster car I'd get a turbo for the same price and be faster.
TEAMCIVIC:the GSR you'd also have to add the IAB.You're car is already vtec so you don't have to run any extra vtec wires.And you can use the motors mounts.
akouznet
04-10-2003, 01:33 AM
well it looks like you know what you are talking about, cars....
knowledge --> a powerful thingie
lets get right to the point
I was doing a research on how to do swap of an h22a into a civic 92-95 I need like step by step guide so if you have any valuable information on that please let me know (links web sites comments)
p.s. i allready got the engine - love it but havent done any work on/with it yet
thanks for any information
and yes if anybody can help, please do so -->thank you all
knowledge --> a powerful thingie
lets get right to the point
I was doing a research on how to do swap of an h22a into a civic 92-95 I need like step by step guide so if you have any valuable information on that please let me know (links web sites comments)
p.s. i allready got the engine - love it but havent done any work on/with it yet
thanks for any information
and yes if anybody can help, please do so -->thank you all
akouznet
04-10-2003, 01:37 AM
well it looks like you know what you are talking about, cars....
knowledge --> a powerful thingie
lets get right to the point
I was doing a research on how to do swap of an h22a into a civic 92-95 I need like step by step guide so if you have any valuable information on that please let me know (links web sites comments)
p.s. i allready got the engine - love it but havent done any work on/with it yet
thanks for any information
and yes if anybody can help, please do so -->thank you all
Report
knowledge --> a powerful thingie
lets get right to the point
I was doing a research on how to do swap of an h22a into a civic 92-95 I need like step by step guide so if you have any valuable information on that please let me know (links web sites comments)
p.s. i allready got the engine - love it but havent done any work on/with it yet
thanks for any information
and yes if anybody can help, please do so -->thank you all
Report
B18CCIVIC
05-07-2003, 10:16 PM
HELLO
I NEED TO KNOW A COUPLE THINGS...HOW IN THE WORLD DO I GET A B18C TYPE R MOTOR...JAP SPEC...INTO MY 95 INTEGRA RS??
DOES THE B18C HAVE SECONDARY BUTTERFLIES???
AND WHAT ABOUT THE VTEC PRESSURE SWITCH???
IT SEEMS NOT TO HAVE ONE!
HELP!!!:bloated:
I NEED TO KNOW A COUPLE THINGS...HOW IN THE WORLD DO I GET A B18C TYPE R MOTOR...JAP SPEC...INTO MY 95 INTEGRA RS??
DOES THE B18C HAVE SECONDARY BUTTERFLIES???
AND WHAT ABOUT THE VTEC PRESSURE SWITCH???
IT SEEMS NOT TO HAVE ONE!
HELP!!!:bloated:
weezer racer
05-25-2003, 12:17 AM
D15 to D16 v-tec?
or
D15 to B18 non-v-tec?
or
D15 to B18 non-v-tec?
B16A2Elex
06-04-2003, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Rice-Rocketeer
The Rod to Stroke ratio: This topic gets very complicated very quickly. Basically it’s the ratio of how long the rod is compared to the length of the entire rod stroke. The perfect ratio is 1.75. If the ratio is off, it means that the rod is not using 100% of it’s momentum to compress the air and gas mixture. It’s using more energy to push against the sides of the cylinder walls than to compress the fuel mixture. This is normally not too bad because things are very well lubricated in your engine. But when you change certain aspects of the engine, in particular increasing the ECU fuel cutoff point or going forced induction, the imperfect R/S ratio will cause more stress on the engine block and could eventually destroy it. A good R/S ratio also ensures long engine life. For a more in-depth look into the R/S ratio check out the following site: http://victorylibrary.com/tech/crod-c.htm
R/S ratio on hondas has been beat to death and honestly it doesnt really turn out to be that big of a problem the ITR and GSR both have a 1.58 r/s rato and have no problem reving high.
B16B: Often regarded as the best 1.6 liter engine in the world, the JDM Civic Type R engine is the rarest of them all. Producing a whopping 185hp @ 8200 rpm and a reasonable 120 lb.-ft of torque @ 7600 rpm and being naturally aspirated, it is technical marvel. It was only available on the 1999-2000 Civic Type R and having one imported will run you easily into the $6000+ range. But you will be WELL respected and large thief magnet when ppl find out. If you have the money and like spending it on high octane gas for your 4 banger, why not?
Just a Destroked ITR engine with a more aggressive Exhaust cam, and can be had for about 4,600.
B17A, B18B1: The B17A could be found on the 92-93 GSR producing 160hp @ 7600 rpm and 117 lb.-ft @ 7000 rpm. The B18B1 is the later model Integra LS, RS, and GS engines. They don't offer huge power outputs at 142hp @ 6300 rpm and 127 lb.-ft @ 5200 rpm, But they can be had for very cheap as they are plentiful and not really sought after by many ppl. The exception being for the B17A as it did have greater power output but they can still be had for cheap as they are generally older and in worse shape compared to the newer B18’s. Anyone of these should still offer a cheap, reliable power upgrade for your small civic. Anyone of these engines could be found for under $2000. The downside to these cheaper engines is their Rod to Stroke ratio. The B17 isn’t that bad but the B18B1 has a R/S ratio of 1.54. This does considerably reduce the maximum possible power output from these engines. But if you don't plan on turbocharging this engine past 15 psi or letting it rev to 11,000 rpm, then it should meet your modest power needs.
Non VTEC motors take extremely well to high boost apps even on stock motors due to the low compression ratio and increased stroke. And Also can sustain high rpm abuse.
There are really two choices for dealing the B20 as far as power goes. You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model. The cylinder head on the B20B model (particularly the tall intake manifold) doesn't clear the hoodline of the civic, which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion. This is what I consider to be the ultimate engine build-up for civics’. You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. The first thing you need to know about B-series engine (B18, B16, B20) is that they all have, for the most part, interchangeable engine parts. So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75 which allows for great naturally aspirated performance (A HUGE redline) or the ability to turbocharge the engine to very large proportions without worrying about engine stability. It is unfortunately rather expensive but this setup will take you anywhere you want to go. The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
Unless you’re simply happy with the stock B20 swap, the only reasons it should be considered are CRVTEC conversions or Forced Induction. The aftermarket support isn’t as plentiful for the B20 as it is for the other engine mentioned so any engine upgrades usually come from other B series or upgraded aftermarket parts for other B series. Which is more less slowly building a CRVTEC engine. But I still highly recommend this engine for the best bang for the buck power adder. Here’s a techy article on the B20 for you: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/crv-b20b-info-n-rod-stroke-ratio.htm
Destroking the B20 block defeats the whole purpose of the swap friend of mine did a B20 block B16A turbo modified stock B20 pistons and 12psi made over 300@ the wheels.
The people saying you should put the B17A crank into the B20 block have slowly faded out after seeing the stock 89mm crank is up to the duties of running hard with boost and all motot though the sleeves in a B20 are not the strongest things out there.
H22A1, H23A1, H22A4: The H23A1 came on the lude Si’s, the highly acclaimed H22A1 came on the 4th gen Si VTEC models and H22A4 came on the 5th generation Si VTEC’s.. And all three engines are MONSTERS compared to what we’re used to. The H22A1 produces a nice 190 hp while the H22A4 produces an even greater 195hp and the H23A1 produces 160hp but they all produce a THICK ASS 160 lb.-ft of torque at relatively low rpm. Giving your 2500lb civic wheel spinning capabilities comparable to a V8 F-body. The whole engine should cost about the same as a GSR swap, $3000-$3500. The down side is the fact that the engine also weighs about 200 lbs. more than the engine you have in your bay now. This effectively makes your weight distribution even worse than what it was before. This causes all types of havoc with your other systems, including suspension, braking and cooling. The engine is also of course very large in size so it's a tight fit into the tiny civic engine bay providing that you make space by removing both air-conditioning and power steering systems.
H22A's have been weighed in comparison to B series engines its 80lbs heavier then a B16 and about 46-48lbs heavier then a B18 so in reality its not all that heavy and the difference isnt much to worry about.
Considering you no longer have air-conditioning the extra space that was once used by the AC condenser could be put to good use and it could be used for an external oil cooler. With this setup you could go uphill mountain racing without fear overheating.
most bolt in kits will let you keep your a/c if you wish but you will lose power steering but even then sometimes you can keep it if you get creative with your install.
let me remind you that this is all extra $$$. The basic swap still includes about $1000 worth of junkyard parts just to make it work, which includes axles, linkages, ECU, HASport mounts, etc. PLUS the cost of the engine itself. This is definitely not the cheap swap.
axle wise you use 90-93 integra axles with 90-93 accord intermedite shaft, the shifter and ecu should come with your change over, and the engines arent too expensive unless you want 99-01 model and even then the cost isnt too bad.
Head Swapping Pros:
One of the points of swapping in a Vtec head is they usually flow allot better than their non Vtec counter parts. And this can even be improved further with a port and polish. So with that in mind, the best flowing DOHC heads can be rated in this order:
1. B16B
2. B18C5
3. B16A
4. B18C1
The B16B head is by far the best head but it's rather expensive and rare. It's basically a B16A head with a factory P&P and lighter valvetrain assemblies among other things. This goes as well for the Integra Type R head. It's basically a GSR head with a factory port and polish, slighter better and lighter cams, valves, springs, etc. The best compromise for price and availability is the B16 head and the last one the list would be the GSR head. Of course it needs to be said that simply swapping the head onto your engine won't give you all the HP from the engine the head came from. Like swapping an GSR head onto an LS block won’t automatically give you 170hp. There were more changes to the engines than just the head like displacement, compression and air flow tracts. But it's still better than your stock head.
B16B, B16A and B18C5 are all the same casting heads the B16B and B18C5 have the slight port job from the factory as you mentioned but the B16B just has a more aggressive exhaust cam.
B16B and B18C5, B18C (JDM ITR) have the stronger valve springs which can handle higher RPM's
The B18C1 GSR head is different it uses a 2 plenium intake manifold which has a set of runners or butterflys that open higher in the rpm range after the VTEC cross over. it also has a larger quench area and has more direct cylinder ports.
Usually a B18C1 swap onto any block will result in a high compression ratio because of the quench area. If Doing A LS VTEC and keeping stock pistons i would recomend the B18C1 head. With A aftermarket single plenium B16 style intake manifold and reprogramed ecu.
Good post overall just needed to clear up and correct a few things in it.
The Rod to Stroke ratio: This topic gets very complicated very quickly. Basically it’s the ratio of how long the rod is compared to the length of the entire rod stroke. The perfect ratio is 1.75. If the ratio is off, it means that the rod is not using 100% of it’s momentum to compress the air and gas mixture. It’s using more energy to push against the sides of the cylinder walls than to compress the fuel mixture. This is normally not too bad because things are very well lubricated in your engine. But when you change certain aspects of the engine, in particular increasing the ECU fuel cutoff point or going forced induction, the imperfect R/S ratio will cause more stress on the engine block and could eventually destroy it. A good R/S ratio also ensures long engine life. For a more in-depth look into the R/S ratio check out the following site: http://victorylibrary.com/tech/crod-c.htm
R/S ratio on hondas has been beat to death and honestly it doesnt really turn out to be that big of a problem the ITR and GSR both have a 1.58 r/s rato and have no problem reving high.
B16B: Often regarded as the best 1.6 liter engine in the world, the JDM Civic Type R engine is the rarest of them all. Producing a whopping 185hp @ 8200 rpm and a reasonable 120 lb.-ft of torque @ 7600 rpm and being naturally aspirated, it is technical marvel. It was only available on the 1999-2000 Civic Type R and having one imported will run you easily into the $6000+ range. But you will be WELL respected and large thief magnet when ppl find out. If you have the money and like spending it on high octane gas for your 4 banger, why not?
Just a Destroked ITR engine with a more aggressive Exhaust cam, and can be had for about 4,600.
B17A, B18B1: The B17A could be found on the 92-93 GSR producing 160hp @ 7600 rpm and 117 lb.-ft @ 7000 rpm. The B18B1 is the later model Integra LS, RS, and GS engines. They don't offer huge power outputs at 142hp @ 6300 rpm and 127 lb.-ft @ 5200 rpm, But they can be had for very cheap as they are plentiful and not really sought after by many ppl. The exception being for the B17A as it did have greater power output but they can still be had for cheap as they are generally older and in worse shape compared to the newer B18’s. Anyone of these should still offer a cheap, reliable power upgrade for your small civic. Anyone of these engines could be found for under $2000. The downside to these cheaper engines is their Rod to Stroke ratio. The B17 isn’t that bad but the B18B1 has a R/S ratio of 1.54. This does considerably reduce the maximum possible power output from these engines. But if you don't plan on turbocharging this engine past 15 psi or letting it rev to 11,000 rpm, then it should meet your modest power needs.
Non VTEC motors take extremely well to high boost apps even on stock motors due to the low compression ratio and increased stroke. And Also can sustain high rpm abuse.
There are really two choices for dealing the B20 as far as power goes. You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model. The cylinder head on the B20B model (particularly the tall intake manifold) doesn't clear the hoodline of the civic, which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion. This is what I consider to be the ultimate engine build-up for civics’. You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. The first thing you need to know about B-series engine (B18, B16, B20) is that they all have, for the most part, interchangeable engine parts. So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75 which allows for great naturally aspirated performance (A HUGE redline) or the ability to turbocharge the engine to very large proportions without worrying about engine stability. It is unfortunately rather expensive but this setup will take you anywhere you want to go. The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
Unless you’re simply happy with the stock B20 swap, the only reasons it should be considered are CRVTEC conversions or Forced Induction. The aftermarket support isn’t as plentiful for the B20 as it is for the other engine mentioned so any engine upgrades usually come from other B series or upgraded aftermarket parts for other B series. Which is more less slowly building a CRVTEC engine. But I still highly recommend this engine for the best bang for the buck power adder. Here’s a techy article on the B20 for you: http://www.theoldone.com/archive/crv-b20b-info-n-rod-stroke-ratio.htm
Destroking the B20 block defeats the whole purpose of the swap friend of mine did a B20 block B16A turbo modified stock B20 pistons and 12psi made over 300@ the wheels.
The people saying you should put the B17A crank into the B20 block have slowly faded out after seeing the stock 89mm crank is up to the duties of running hard with boost and all motot though the sleeves in a B20 are not the strongest things out there.
H22A1, H23A1, H22A4: The H23A1 came on the lude Si’s, the highly acclaimed H22A1 came on the 4th gen Si VTEC models and H22A4 came on the 5th generation Si VTEC’s.. And all three engines are MONSTERS compared to what we’re used to. The H22A1 produces a nice 190 hp while the H22A4 produces an even greater 195hp and the H23A1 produces 160hp but they all produce a THICK ASS 160 lb.-ft of torque at relatively low rpm. Giving your 2500lb civic wheel spinning capabilities comparable to a V8 F-body. The whole engine should cost about the same as a GSR swap, $3000-$3500. The down side is the fact that the engine also weighs about 200 lbs. more than the engine you have in your bay now. This effectively makes your weight distribution even worse than what it was before. This causes all types of havoc with your other systems, including suspension, braking and cooling. The engine is also of course very large in size so it's a tight fit into the tiny civic engine bay providing that you make space by removing both air-conditioning and power steering systems.
H22A's have been weighed in comparison to B series engines its 80lbs heavier then a B16 and about 46-48lbs heavier then a B18 so in reality its not all that heavy and the difference isnt much to worry about.
Considering you no longer have air-conditioning the extra space that was once used by the AC condenser could be put to good use and it could be used for an external oil cooler. With this setup you could go uphill mountain racing without fear overheating.
most bolt in kits will let you keep your a/c if you wish but you will lose power steering but even then sometimes you can keep it if you get creative with your install.
let me remind you that this is all extra $$$. The basic swap still includes about $1000 worth of junkyard parts just to make it work, which includes axles, linkages, ECU, HASport mounts, etc. PLUS the cost of the engine itself. This is definitely not the cheap swap.
axle wise you use 90-93 integra axles with 90-93 accord intermedite shaft, the shifter and ecu should come with your change over, and the engines arent too expensive unless you want 99-01 model and even then the cost isnt too bad.
Head Swapping Pros:
One of the points of swapping in a Vtec head is they usually flow allot better than their non Vtec counter parts. And this can even be improved further with a port and polish. So with that in mind, the best flowing DOHC heads can be rated in this order:
1. B16B
2. B18C5
3. B16A
4. B18C1
The B16B head is by far the best head but it's rather expensive and rare. It's basically a B16A head with a factory P&P and lighter valvetrain assemblies among other things. This goes as well for the Integra Type R head. It's basically a GSR head with a factory port and polish, slighter better and lighter cams, valves, springs, etc. The best compromise for price and availability is the B16 head and the last one the list would be the GSR head. Of course it needs to be said that simply swapping the head onto your engine won't give you all the HP from the engine the head came from. Like swapping an GSR head onto an LS block won’t automatically give you 170hp. There were more changes to the engines than just the head like displacement, compression and air flow tracts. But it's still better than your stock head.
B16B, B16A and B18C5 are all the same casting heads the B16B and B18C5 have the slight port job from the factory as you mentioned but the B16B just has a more aggressive exhaust cam.
B16B and B18C5, B18C (JDM ITR) have the stronger valve springs which can handle higher RPM's
The B18C1 GSR head is different it uses a 2 plenium intake manifold which has a set of runners or butterflys that open higher in the rpm range after the VTEC cross over. it also has a larger quench area and has more direct cylinder ports.
Usually a B18C1 swap onto any block will result in a high compression ratio because of the quench area. If Doing A LS VTEC and keeping stock pistons i would recomend the B18C1 head. With A aftermarket single plenium B16 style intake manifold and reprogramed ecu.
Good post overall just needed to clear up and correct a few things in it.
ivebenjamin
06-04-2003, 08:14 AM
You said for crvtec you should use the b20 block and a b16 head? Well later on you rated heads and said the b16b is the best and that the b18C1 is the next best. b16b's are so scarce so if i wanted the next best, would it be better to get another b16 or get the b18C5 and put that head on?
-Ben
-Ben
CivicYoungin
06-10-2003, 06:51 PM
could u use these information on swappin in a D16Z6 into a '91 Honda CRX Si?...just want to know...cuz this shit was helpful...and it can be VERY helpful to me for that that kind of swappin i'm plannin on doin...
sparq
06-23-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by ivebenjamin
You said for crvtec you should use the b20 block and a b16 head? Well later on you rated heads and said the b16b is the best and that the b18C1 is the next best. b16b's are so scarce so if i wanted the next best, would it be better to get another b16 or get the b18C5 and put that head on?
-Ben B16 head has 10% better flow over the B18c...
Civic Type R (B16b) head is ported and polished etc.
Integra Type R (b18cR) head is also ported and polished etc.
So you figure that out... not rocket science :bigthumb:
You said for crvtec you should use the b20 block and a b16 head? Well later on you rated heads and said the b16b is the best and that the b18C1 is the next best. b16b's are so scarce so if i wanted the next best, would it be better to get another b16 or get the b18C5 and put that head on?
-Ben B16 head has 10% better flow over the B18c...
Civic Type R (B16b) head is ported and polished etc.
Integra Type R (b18cR) head is also ported and polished etc.
So you figure that out... not rocket science :bigthumb:
B16A2Elex
06-23-2003, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by sparq
B16 head has 10% better flow over the B18c...
Not true at all.
http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/b16vsgsrflowtest.html
B16 head has 10% better flow over the B18c...
Not true at all.
http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/b16vsgsrflowtest.html
jcrx
06-23-2003, 02:09 PM
B16 head has 10% better flow over the B18c...
http://alaniztechnologies.com/images/b16vsgsrstock.jpg
Not really, now if you are talking percapita (cc vs. cc), then yes since the B16 is a 1.6 and the B18 is a 1.8.
http://alaniztechnologies.com/images/b16vsgsrstock.jpg
Not really, now if you are talking percapita (cc vs. cc), then yes since the B16 is a 1.6 and the B18 is a 1.8.
sparq
06-23-2003, 02:17 PM
I find irony in that...
Hello,just because you read it on the net,doesn't make it true.
:rolleyes:
Hello,just because you read it on the net,doesn't make it true.
:rolleyes:
jcrx
06-23-2003, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by sparq
I find irony in that...
:rolleyes:
It is kind of ironic, too bad flow charts have been reproduced by other companies with the same results.
I find irony in that...
:rolleyes:
It is kind of ironic, too bad flow charts have been reproduced by other companies with the same results.
92' civic sedan
06-28-2003, 09:54 AM
alright, my 92' civic's engine has too many miles on it and its shot. I want to swap it.all of those engines up there help very much but i can get an 89' prelude engine which numbers are i think B20A5 for almost nothing from a friend. could I swap the engine out of the prelude and put it in the civic?
jcrx
06-28-2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by 92' civic sedan
alright, my 92' civic's engine has too many miles on it and its shot. I want to swap it.all of those engines up there help very much but i can get an 89' prelude engine which numbers are i think B20A5 for almost nothing from a friend. could I swap the engine out of the prelude and put it in the civic?
Monumental waste of time, wrong OBD, would need a custom mount kit, shiftlinkage, axles, I wouldn't waste the time, even if the motor was free. Apples and Oranges.
alright, my 92' civic's engine has too many miles on it and its shot. I want to swap it.all of those engines up there help very much but i can get an 89' prelude engine which numbers are i think B20A5 for almost nothing from a friend. could I swap the engine out of the prelude and put it in the civic?
Monumental waste of time, wrong OBD, would need a custom mount kit, shiftlinkage, axles, I wouldn't waste the time, even if the motor was free. Apples and Oranges.
92' civic sedan
06-28-2003, 07:38 PM
alright thanks. I just recieved another candidate for the engine replacement as a JDM D15B VTEC...are there any special guidlines to follow in installing this engine beceause i dont remember seeing it in the swapping guide?
jcrx
06-28-2003, 08:12 PM
Much better, since it is a D series, it is a straight drop, provided it is a 92-95 motor. All you really need to put it in is the long block, and you may need to wire vtec depending on what model you have now.
ivebenjamin
06-29-2003, 06:28 PM
__________________________________________________ __________
There are really two choices for dealing the B20 as far as power goes. You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model. The cylinder head on the B20B model (particularly the tall intake manifold) doesn't clear the hoodline of the civic, which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion. This is what I consider to be the ultimate engine build-up for civics’. You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. The first thing you need to know about B-series engine (B18, B16, B20) is that they all have, for the most part, interchangeable engine parts. So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75 which allows for great naturally aspirated performance (A HUGE redline) or the ability to turbocharge the engine to very large proportions without worrying about engine stability. It is unfortunately rather expensive but this setup will take you anywhere you want to go. The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
__________________________________________________ __________
You said the whole b20 engine wouldn't clear the hood in a civic, so you would need to get a b16 head anyway. Well would a b18 head clear the hood as well?
Also, when you talk about swapping a b16, is it a b16b or just a b16(a1,2,or 3)?
I mean what i'm trying to figure out is what would be the best, next to best, and so on, with any b series, for a head swap on a b20. Also price ranges would help too. Thanks
There are really two choices for dealing the B20 as far as power goes. You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model. The cylinder head on the B20B model (particularly the tall intake manifold) doesn't clear the hoodline of the civic, which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion. This is what I consider to be the ultimate engine build-up for civics’. You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. The first thing you need to know about B-series engine (B18, B16, B20) is that they all have, for the most part, interchangeable engine parts. So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75 which allows for great naturally aspirated performance (A HUGE redline) or the ability to turbocharge the engine to very large proportions without worrying about engine stability. It is unfortunately rather expensive but this setup will take you anywhere you want to go. The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
__________________________________________________ __________
You said the whole b20 engine wouldn't clear the hood in a civic, so you would need to get a b16 head anyway. Well would a b18 head clear the hood as well?
Also, when you talk about swapping a b16, is it a b16b or just a b16(a1,2,or 3)?
I mean what i'm trying to figure out is what would be the best, next to best, and so on, with any b series, for a head swap on a b20. Also price ranges would help too. Thanks
jcrx
06-30-2003, 05:22 AM
You could leave it as is and simply swap the head for B16 model.
You can NOT just swap the head, you have to tap and run external oil lines.
which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion.
Swapping a B16 or other vtec head on to a CRV is a CRvtec.
So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75
Um, no
The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
If you want it to last longer than the first time you hammer it, it is going to cost quite a bit more than this.
You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. crvtec.com is search engine, .www.b20vtec.com is the right website.
You can NOT just swap the head, you have to tap and run external oil lines.
which is ok since the B16 head swap will add Vtec abilities and increased power. OR you could go about what is called a CR-VTEC conversion.
Swapping a B16 or other vtec head on to a CRV is a CRvtec.
So the CRVTEC buildup basically consists of taking the best parts of all the engines and making an unprecedented Frankenstein of motor that has a perfect Rod to Stroke ratio of near 1.75
Um, no
The simple B20/B16 swap costs as follows: $1000-$1500 for the B20 short block, +/- $600 for the B16 head, +/- $300 for the B16 ECU + tranny and other small parts. The price for the CR/VTEC could be calculated on the aforementioned site.
If you want it to last longer than the first time you hammer it, it is going to cost quite a bit more than this.
You can check out www.crvtec.com for details. crvtec.com is search engine, .www.b20vtec.com is the right website.
VTWanderer07
07-17-2003, 02:24 PM
so does anyone know any good places online to get an engine? Or does anyone know any shops in the va/md area?
Grallim
07-28-2003, 02:55 PM
Back to everyone's talk about rod ratio...I want to build a b18b but everyone talks about the bad rod ratio with the b18's being all around 1.54/1.58. So why, if 1.75 is so important, are those guys running 10's by building b18's and not messing with the rod ratio..or are they? They claim to be running the motors around the 10,000 rpm range and you know they are pushing probably 25 pounds, but they dont seem to be having a problem. I am just curious if the .2 liters is worth the stress of the bad rod ratio, or just going with a b16A2 is better. I am not talking about just buildiing a 200hp daily driver, so the motor is going to be going through some abuse. Any advice is appreciated...thanks
CivicJunky
08-03-2003, 10:05 PM
Damn that was a sweet post! I just got a 94 civic that I want to tune. How do I find out which engine I have?
NuTuner
08-05-2003, 12:08 AM
Dude you are soooooooo my new motor GOD. Sometimes getting questions answered is hard. You go out where everyone is shooting at questions with a .22 and intorduce birdshot :tongue:
I think its great what your doing, and I commend you. I'm also curious if there is any chace I could get an even more complete version ? Or somehow encourage you to release more 'episodes' if you will, about other areas of tuning. Intake, exhaust, building up the engine, the right turbo kit etc. That would be really really cool.
Thanks for listening.
I think its great what your doing, and I commend you. I'm also curious if there is any chace I could get an even more complete version ? Or somehow encourage you to release more 'episodes' if you will, about other areas of tuning. Intake, exhaust, building up the engine, the right turbo kit etc. That would be really really cool.
Thanks for listening.
JDMDA9
08-06-2003, 07:50 PM
I didn't find anything in this post about which motor mounts to use, which is the info I need.
I have a second gen B16A going into a '94 VX Civic. Which mounts can I reuse and exactly which other Del Sol VTEC or DC2 Integra mounts and brackets do I use? Honda part numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Hasport's are out of the question...
I have a second gen B16A going into a '94 VX Civic. Which mounts can I reuse and exactly which other Del Sol VTEC or DC2 Integra mounts and brackets do I use? Honda part numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Hasport's are out of the question...
94tegRS
08-06-2003, 09:01 PM
dont quote me, but at vtr a guy but a B18C in his hatch and he told me he used the stock b series mounts. so if you got a swap, you should have the mounts you need, or you can get them from the del sol vtec. but my friends B16 in his integra(2nd) gen has just the uppers, the rear and one in the front center as mine has 2 in the fron, one on either side, but it could be they switched the mount style from cable to hydro equipped cars.
ShwedishFish
08-09-2003, 09:45 PM
sorry for the stupid question but what does the R/S in R/S ratio stand for?
94tegRS
08-10-2003, 07:08 AM
rod to stroke ratio, 1.75 is the best for lots of revs, I tihnk it is cuz most of the rods momentum pushes the piston up and not against cylinder walls or something, but i know 1.75 is best, B16a is 1.74, the B16B is too probably.
ShwedishFish
08-10-2003, 06:02 PM
so is that the (length of the rod)/(length of stroke)?
th_james2003
08-12-2003, 02:38 PM
this artical really helped me with my decision on my engine swap.
i have a 95 honda civic dx, and i went with the b20b engine swap. i am very happy with my decision and hope that more people choose the b20.
i have a 95 honda civic dx, and i went with the b20b engine swap. i am very happy with my decision and hope that more people choose the b20.
ShwedishFish
08-12-2003, 08:18 PM
whoops, guess i should of taken the time to read the orginal post before i asked dumb questions, sorry
92' civic sedan
08-27-2003, 08:21 PM
alright..i found B20B which was in the 96-98 CRV's...is it alright if i put it in my car which of course is my name right there or will i have to get a newer car for the systems to work? thanks.
94tegRS
08-28-2003, 01:15 AM
I think skunk2 makes a harnes to plug in the OBD2 electronics inot your OBD1 car, but since with the B20, you still gotta get all other parts, might as well get a 94 or 95 integra intake manifold and then im pretty sure you can use the ecu from an OBD1 (94-95) integra as well. the block has the same sensors in OBD1 as it does in OBD2 i think.
jcrx
08-28-2003, 03:11 AM
I didn't find anything in this post about which motor mounts to use, which is the info I need.
I have a second gen B16A going into a '94 VX Civic. Which mounts can I reuse and exactly which other Del Sol VTEC or DC2 Integra mounts and brackets do I use? Honda part numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Hasport's are out of the question...
You can use all of your civics mounts (tranny, drivers side, and rear), and rear bracket, but you need to use the B16's two front torque mount brackets (that bolt to the motor) and the civic rubber mounts (that bolt to the underside of the chassis).
I have a second gen B16A going into a '94 VX Civic. Which mounts can I reuse and exactly which other Del Sol VTEC or DC2 Integra mounts and brackets do I use? Honda part numbers would be greatly appreciated.
Hasport's are out of the question...
You can use all of your civics mounts (tranny, drivers side, and rear), and rear bracket, but you need to use the B16's two front torque mount brackets (that bolt to the motor) and the civic rubber mounts (that bolt to the underside of the chassis).
Import_fantasy
08-29-2003, 02:30 PM
were can i find more info on the CRVTEC www.crvtec.com doesnt work anymore.....i am VERY VERY interested in this motor
94tegRS
08-29-2003, 03:35 PM
b20vtec.com
I just looked over it and it is a bit helpful, but this guy's running 12.5:1cr and shooting for 11's, i think he did his 3rd rebuild in under 2k miles. but at fault of a FPR and DFI, and then not enough torque on the headgasket supposedly. I think he revs the shit out of it too though, on a dyno sheet he was complaining about a 8500 fuel cut.
kinda scares me, hopefully 11:1 and proper torquing of bolts w/7k redline will be safe.
I just looked over it and it is a bit helpful, but this guy's running 12.5:1cr and shooting for 11's, i think he did his 3rd rebuild in under 2k miles. but at fault of a FPR and DFI, and then not enough torque on the headgasket supposedly. I think he revs the shit out of it too though, on a dyno sheet he was complaining about a 8500 fuel cut.
kinda scares me, hopefully 11:1 and proper torquing of bolts w/7k redline will be safe.
clubcav_com
09-16-2003, 10:57 AM
:lol2:
- Moderator
www.RateMyHonda.com
Is your honda nice...or rice?
www.RateMyHonda.com
- Moderator
www.RateMyHonda.com
Is your honda nice...or rice?
www.RateMyHonda.com
92' civic sedan
09-21-2003, 07:43 PM
ok..my friend has a stock 94 mustang GT...and i have this 92 civic LX sedan..what would be the best engine that I could i put in it without taking out air or power steering..could i possibly upgrade to beat this thing....or would it probablt be a waste of time beceause its a four door thing?
lsj
10-02-2003, 07:08 PM
can put my 1989 2.0si prelude engine in my 2000 civic lx? also would the tranny from the prelude fit. :eek7: i know this is a stupid question but i dont know if it will work because it is obd1. please dont flame me, help me. thanks john. :eek7:
SPOONFED_VTEC
10-17-2003, 05:55 PM
About the swapping of the engines.. I have a D16Z6 in my 93 Civic which runs low tens on the 1/8. Not vey impressive but good enough for me. I also have the money, the parts, and the resources to build a B18C1. My questions are : Which has the better rod ratio when built to all motor specs? And should i invest in the motor i have or the ultimate sleeping Civic with the B18? Because from what I've heard, both engines can make ungodly power. But i want the one that will make the most. I've heard of bulit all motor B18's that are capable of running very very low 10's in the 1/4. I just would like to know what do now before i get too far into the D16 Which in turn will be a wasted project. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
94tegRS
10-17-2003, 06:40 PM
ok, the B series will ALWAYS have more power than the D's when equally built, and as for the r/s ratio for all motor, when boosted it doesnt change. and the B16 is 1.74, B18C 1.58 and B18b/B20B is 1.54, dont know about the D's.
and the four door doesnt weigh too much more than the coupe, no its not a 4 door thing. if you just wanna drop in and go, get the B18C5 wiht bolt ons and youll probably ghit a low-mid 14 when you drive it to its potential, depending on your altitude, if you wana build it you could boost a B18b for about the same price as a B18C5 and youd beat the mustang.
gotta go, ill answer more later maybe.
and the four door doesnt weigh too much more than the coupe, no its not a 4 door thing. if you just wanna drop in and go, get the B18C5 wiht bolt ons and youll probably ghit a low-mid 14 when you drive it to its potential, depending on your altitude, if you wana build it you could boost a B18b for about the same price as a B18C5 and youd beat the mustang.
gotta go, ill answer more later maybe.
SPOONFED_VTEC
10-17-2003, 07:44 PM
WILL THE B16 MAKE MORE POWER THAN THE B18? DIDN'T THE b16 COME FROME THE CIVIC ADN THE b18 FROM THE INTEGRA? aND ISN'T THE INTEGRA MOTOR THE KING OF ALL MOTORS? BECAUSE I WANT TO REMAIN ALL MOTOR NO MATTER WHAT. I HAVE HEARED OF TOO MANY FAILURES WITH TURBO HONDA AND ACURA ENGINES. bUT THA IS JUST WHAT I HAVE HEARD. :banghead:
94tegRS
10-18-2003, 02:07 AM
all motor I guess you should go with the H22. or CRVTEC, pretty much pick a large displacemtn base to start with and go from there, but you can bore/stroke a B18 to 2.26 liters if you wanted. and you probably hear those storie from the kids who throw 12 pounds to their stock B16 and wonder why they fucked there engine up.
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