Question on new models

[guiwee]

I was wondering if someone out there can tell me why we dont see that
many new car realeases from my favorite brand.Tamiya.
Is it because of all the license issues? Ive gotten back into the hobby
after a multidecade hiatus and have noticed that they come out with a bunch of new military models more often.
I know its expensive for new kits. But if revell can do a ferrari 09 version why cant tamiya. For example. Why is there a revell 70 camaro but not tamiya?
Basically Im not sure of how the process gets started.Like how come revell can do a mustang but not tamiya? Do these guys gotta get permission from everybody involved. And pay them huge fees just to do a kit? Is that why the fxx reatils for about $70. Because the italian company charged them huge fees to produce it?

Ive often wondered about this stuff. When I was a kid and started with the old monogram and mpc kits I never even knew tamiya existed.They werent on the shelves at my local K-mart. Now that Im grown and can appreciate tamiyas quality i want more(lol)

[jano11]

I'm pretty sure it's not a license issue.
The military model kits market is much larger than the automotive related one, and Tamiya concentrates on that one.
Also as far as the automotive market is concerned Tamiya prefers to produce RC models rather than static ones.

They produced the 1998 GT1 Porsche in 1/10th scale as a RC kit.
They did the Sauber Mercedes C11 too as RC kit.
The also have the BMW Z4 coupe and many others produced as RC kits but no static kits.

I'd buy any of the above in 1/24 or even 1/12 scale, but they will not bother to produce them.

[guiwee]

Yeah thats the thing they know people would buy their kits.If they made one of the sauber merecedes it would fly off the shelves. Why not a Dodge Charger? Ive noticed that Tamiya doesnt make many muscle cars.Their specialty seems to be more into racing.

[MPWR]

It is simply because they do not want to.

Or more accurately, because they do not believe that they can turn a viable profit doing so.

Why that might be is purely speculation. It is very realistic that licensing is a major factor and possibly the decisive factor, but we are not ever likely to know for sure. No company makes public its decision process on this sort of thing. It is not meant to be understood, even by an enthusiastic consumer base.

However you can be very sure that Tamiya believes that it does not make sound financial sense to put out new automotive kits. And until they believe otherwise, we simply will not see any more car kits from them.

Besides, cars from 10 or more years ago are just much cooler than what's being made now.

[scale auto style]

hi guy's i will explain the philosophy of the japenese kit industry.

this is good for almost 99% of the japanese manufacturer ( tamiya, Aoshima, Fujimi ...)

when they market a kit they look theyre LOCAL market. usually it's asian market and they don't like a lot USA car. even old school or the newest one.

to enter in the japanese market GM bought Subaru otherwise they will never sell a car in this market.

so imagine trying selling a model kit of an american car... same thing.

the other thing the modelers ask me ( as a hobbyshop owner ) is why Fujimi, Aoshima and tamiya don't do more kit with engine.. WE love to detail engine... the answer is: like you said YOU love engine but the asian... NO ( i explain )

i go to an asain car show some years ago and i felt on my knees when i enter... figure what... no hood was open or just a few one. here in canada and usa 99.9% of hood are open. Everybody was inside the car or turning around... like they don't want to see the engine they want to see the look of the car.

this philosophy is also reflected in our hobby... why spending a lot of $$ into a engine tooling when our taget market doesn't want it.

compare the tamiya RX-7 you will see.

kit 24110 Rx-7 efni.. ( no detail engine ) retail 1500 Yen
kit 24116 RX-7 R1 same kit as 24110 but with ENGINE retail 2200 yen

it's 32% more than the otherone.. so they have to think about that before they put an engine.


Of course the american market is not the same thing. i can guess... Tamiya got the lead of the race for the american market. they offer a wider range of kit with engine but unfortunotly they stop producing new kit.

right now they are in the RE-issue process.

new kit involve new tooling, new investment and paying license to the real manufacture of the cars.. so with the econy we have at this moment i think it's not a good idea to put a lot of $$ in this.

but they don't have the license problem with the military market .. this is why they concentrate theyre effort in this branch.

hope this help someone

yours

[PeterGrave5]

tamiya did the mustang from the 90s...*shrugs* but really why fight revell its not like revell is fighting them, everyone comfortable in they're markets.

[scale auto style]

Originally Posted by PeterGrave5

tamiya did the mustang from the 90s...*shrugs* but really why fight revell its not like revell is fighting them, everyone comfortable in they're markets.

exact.. that's why revell don't do a lot of japanese car. or if they do they are VERY SHORT RUN.. all tuners series except the subaru are discountinued for over a year already.

yours

[rallymaster]

Originally Posted by MPWR

It is simply because they do not want to.
Or more accurately, because they do not believe that they can turn a viable profit doing so [... ]However you can be very sure that Tamiya believes that it does not make sound financial sense to put out new automotive kits. And until they believe otherwise, we simply will not see any more car kits from them.

I dont' really believe that their former rally releases didn't make money, even if the military market may be bigger than the automotive one...

But what is sure is that there are more competitors for plastic kit brand with diecast on the automotive market than there are in military, that may also be a reason why they concentrate on military.


That's really a pain because a lot of builders would appreciate a decent Xsara WRC, C4 WRC or Focus WRC under Tamiya standard, as some former cars like a Celica ST165 or ST205 (road car bases exists and they made the ST185)... etc

[rallymaster]

Forgot to say: fortunately (Hmm not that much for our money!) that gives a place to artisanal brands like Profil24, Renaissance... and Scuderia Italia Lab !!

[guiwee]

Originally Posted by scale auto style

hi guy's i will explain the philosophy of the japenese kit industry.

this is good for almost 99% of the japanese manufacturer ( tamiya, Aoshima, Fujimi ...)

when they market a kit they look theyre LOCAL market. usually it's asian market and they don't like a lot USA car. even old school or the newest one.

to enter in the japanese market GM bought Subaru otherwise they will never sell a car in this market.

so imagine trying selling a model kit of an american car... same thing.

the other thing the modelers ask me ( as a hobbyshop owner ) is why Fujimi, Aoshima and tamiya don't do more kit with engine.. WE love to detail engine... the answer is: like you said YOU love engine but the asian... NO ( i explain )

i go to an asain car show some years ago and i felt on my knees when i enter... figure what... no hood was open or just a few one. here in canada and usa 99.9% of hood are open. Everybody was inside the car or turning around... like they don't want to see the engine they want to see the look of the car.

this philosophy is also reflected in our hobby... why spending a lot of $$ into a engine tooling when our taget market doesn't want it.

compare the tamiya RX-7 you will see.

kit 24110 Rx-7 efni.. ( no detail engine ) retail 1500 Yen
kit 24116 RX-7 R1 same kit as 24110 but with ENGINE retail 2200 yen

it's 32% more than the otherone.. so they have to think about that before they put an engine.


Of course the american market is not the same thing. i can guess... Tamiya got the lead of the race for the american market. they offer a wider range of kit with engine but unfortunotly they stop producing new kit.

right now they are in the RE-issue process.

new kit involve new tooling, new investment and paying license to the real manufacture of the cars.. so with the econy we have at this moment i think it's not a good idea to put a lot of $$ in this.

but they don't have the license problem with the military market .. this is why they concentrate theyre effort in this branch.

hope this help someone

yours

So youre saying that the asian market is more profitable than the U.S. and the west combined. How about our european brothers dont they like engines too?When I look on the internet at model shows around the world the winners are usually the detailed ones with hood, doors,decklid,engine wired.etc. Look at all the tamiya con winners. Most with super detailed engines and not the scratch built ones either!!
I understand the market stuff but even so theyre coming out with one or two of the asian cars a year.
Another question for you guys? If they re-issue a kit do they have to pay the license fees again? In other words if they got a deal with porsche and all the sponsors,etc. to make the 956 back in lets say 1987...then re-issue it today are they paying them twice or is it a one-time few. Also if they can do a porsche then. Then cant they do one now?
Is it really just a question of dollars and cents?
Im with R.M. I would love to see a citroen wrc car!!

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by rallymaster

I dont' really believe that their former rally releases didn't make money

They certainly did make money.

But they do not make money now. Things have changed, and Tamiya cannot make a profit selling kits of rally cars now. So they do not make more.

It's very simple. If Tamiya could make money by selling car kits, they definitely would. They know very well that there are many many people who are very enthusiastic about buying kits of model cars. But they know how much it costs for them to make a model kit now. They also know about how much they can make in sales. And they know that there is a big difference in these amounts, and they would loose money if they tried.

Yes, many of us would happily buy a (insert your favorite car here) kit for $28USD. Many of us would still buy it for $38, or even $43. But few of us will buy it for $108. And if they know that's what they would have to charge for a kit to make a profit on it, they know it will not work.

Just because Tamiya used to be able to sell fantastic kits at a reasonable price does not mean that they can today. The world has changed, and Tamiya has decided it is simply not possible. There is no money for them to be found in model car kits now- so they make no more model car kits.

[gionc]

Originally Posted by MPWR

They certainly did make money.

But they do not make money now. Things have changed, and Tamiya cannot make a profit selling kits of rally cars now. So they do not make more.

It's very simple. If Tamiya could make money by selling car kits, they definitely would. They know very well that there are many many people who are very enthusiastic about buying kits of model cars. But they know how much it costs for them to make a model kit now. They also know about how much they can make in sales. And they know that there is a big difference in these amounts, and they would loose money if they tried.

Yes, many of us would happily buy a (insert your favorite car here) kit for $28USD. Many of us would still buy it for $38, or even $43. But few of us will buy it for $108. And if they know that's what they would have to charge for a kit to make a profit on it, they know it will not work.

Just because Tamiya used to be able to sell fantastic kits at a reasonable price does not mean that they can today. The world has changed, and Tamiya has decided it is simply not possible. There is no money for them to be found in model car kits now- so they make no more model car kits.

Mmmm looks like Andy tried his new beer, self brewed, and looks like it's quite bitter this year

I have a vision: future's kits cost nothing in molds, and are done by corn, you lap insthead glue (my kids tried this http://www.bebeblog.it/galleria/ecologioco/ , phenomenal LOL), at last you wouldn't have cianoacrylate or isocyanate fumes in the shop, ok may be garlic smell sometimes after a great aubergine's parmigiana

[scale auto style]

Originally Posted by guiwee

So youre saying that the asian market is more rofitable than the U.S. and the west combined. How about our european brothers dont they like engines too?When I look on the internet at model shows around the world the winners are usually the detailed ones with hood, doors,decklid,engine wired.etc. Look at all the tamiya con winners. Most with super detailed engines and not the scratch built ones either!!
I understand the market stuff but even so theyre coming out with one or two of the asian cars a year.
Another question for you guys? If they re-issue a kit do they have to pay the license fees again? In other words if they got a deal with porsche and all the sponsors,etc. to make the 956 back in lets say 1987...then re-issue it today are they paying them twice or is it a one-time few. Also if they can do a porsche then. Then cant they do one now?
Is it really just a question of dollars and cents?
Im with R.M. I would love to see a citroen wrc car!!

when they design a kit they look for the ocal market first ( like i do and like every manufacturer do ) it's your local market that will pay all expense you made... mold, design, advertise, and license. if you r local market can fill all these and you made a reasonable profit they will go for it. international sales will be just a plus in the bank account. but if they don't do theyre expected profit they will not do the kit.

yes ALL tamiya con are win by kit with superdetail engine... but this is good with tamiyacon... do you already go to a model car show in asia. not one from a local club... a major one... and not affiliated with a manufacturer...like tamiya to see what's is mostly built. more than 90% of car kit on table are curbside. because they fill what the local market want , GOOD looking car at cheap price. i don't know if they are the BIG BIG winner of the show. anyway the mather to go to a show is not WINNING is sharing our knowledge and see people. if you win.. it's a plus for you. ( this is my own philosophy of a show )

i know some people who are what i call trophy racer.. one of them reach the 500 last years.. yes his models a cool... but personnaly... i prefer mine. because my attempt is not to win.. is to get the more fun as possible when i built a model and i can guarnty you i have a lot of fun.

now back to the track..


yes they have to pay license every time... in fact usually when you license a kit it's for a batch...ex: i contact GM a couple years ago to make a full kit of one of they're car. they ask me how much i will produce. to this answer they told me how much it will cost me in license... ( i forgot the project A LOT TO MUCH $$)

so liense are given for an amount of piece produce. and trust me they know exactly how much you made...


hope this help

[CrateCruncher]

The yen's steady appreciation has taken its toll. A typical Y3,000 kit would be:

1971 $ 8.38
1979 $13.88
1989 $21.50
1999 $25.21
2009 $32.25

Keep in mind this is just exchange rate with the US. Relative inflation rates weren't even taken into account. That would make things worse.

[guiwee]

Wow!! Thanks guys that really clears things up. But just raises other questions.
I.e. fujimi and revell dont have these problems also? They seem to make a lot more
of kits. I think fujimi is based in japan. revell in germany so whats their approach because they put out way more kits.