97 Maxima Does not Start

[spatki1]

My 97 Maxima Wont start, i replaced starter , cecked battaery & Alternator at Advance auto parts everything is tested OK.

Engine trying to Start hard or fast but could not start finally, before this i need to give gas to start it, it makes rattiling noise from engine when it was starting.

Called Nissan dealer he told me no of this either Mass Airflow Sensor or could be Fuel Filter , Distribution cap plug wire or fuel sending unit... anythig.. they need to diagnose the problem...

Please help me trobleshoot this problem.

My Cat is totally stalled now.......

SP

[spatki1]

Pl reply

[Nahkapohjola]

Originally Posted by spatki1

...Please help me trobleshoot this problem....

1. Dont ever go to tHat shop: Your -97 max havent even got "Distribution cap plug wire..."

2. Unplug MAF connector. Will start if MAF is the problem; then replace... (Get from autozone, its 50% chance its bad already)

3. Replace TPS, on throttle axle end: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/6

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[spatki1]

Thanks a lot, I will try that first tomarrow
Pl let me know if any other troblshooting required..

Thanks

SP

[Nahkapohjola]

Originally Posted by spatki1

...
Pl let me know if any other troblshooting required...

None needed if it starts. Smtg else needed if not... Only u can let us know

(Smtg else:
- If fuel pump works, it keeps distinct noise. When/If it produces pressure, hose at filter stiffens. Pressure has to be high enough AFTER filter for startup
- Check for spark: take a spare plug, install to disconnected coilpack, ground the plug on engine metal, ask smbdy to crank. U'll see spark if ECU is ok. Use gloves. )

.

[spatki1]

Try disconnecting MAF Harness Connector & start the Car but its same status, Car is not starting making same noise as earlier.

Unfortunetly i dont have Electronic Multimeter to test Voltage signal & all.

I took out Air Filter & MAF Connector Plastic Assembly , checked there is no dust, Reconnected all Harness connector firmly.

Do i need to disconnect complete Assembly with Air filter , MAF Connector & Air duct to Engine & then try starting the Car ??? I diddnt tried that ....

I saw where the MAF assembly, Air Duct & TPS to engine there is one white cover inside where Air Duct connects to Engine , its not complete white , seems some oil deposition inside at bottom dont know what that part called as..

I have Spare Spark Plug to test , bt i didnt get how to install to disconnected coilpack ?? If you can tell me step by step process to check for ECU using spark plug.

Should i try trobleshooting TPS now ? I am new in forum, how to find good Junk yard in my area?

Pl let me know what to do next ?

I really appriciate your feedback & great inputs. Thanks a lot !!

SP

[Nahkapohjola]

... same noise as earlier.
- ?? what kinda noise is that: do some cylinder try to ignite?

Unfortunetly i dont have Electronic Multimeter to test Voltage signal & all.
- buy 10$
- tow to shop

...Do i need to disconnect complete Assembly...
- no

...how to install to disconnected coilpack
- pull coilpack, push plug in

Should i try trobleshooting TPS now ?
- first spark
- need to buy 10$

I am new in forum, how to find good Junk yard in my area?
- find phone catalog yel pages, flipthrough

Pl let me know what to do next ?
- check/swap all relevant fuses/relays, dash & under hood
- see that your ECU power relay clicks, see for ECU leds (= means its alive), try to encode leds, download manual
- click http://www.cardomain.com/ride/748507/21
- buy 10$ multimeter

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[spatki1]

I took car to foreign Cars mechanic shop & they look couple of hrs, connected computer to scan codes they get nothing but oxygen sesor, but they see its not oxygen sesor that causing problem, its something related to spark. They found all spark plus drain out so they replaced al spark pulgs but still problem is not solved.

They think it could be couple of Crank sesors which generate Spark signals which could be causing problem.

They told me to keep car for one more day to trobleshoot otherwise suggested to took to Nissan Dealership.They are little frustrated with kind of problem

I dont know what to do , i have to pay labour 2 times to diagnose the problem itself.

Please guide me if any suggestions.

Thanks

SP

[Nahkapohjola]

Originally Posted by spatki1

....if any ...

No answers to questions -IF- No answers to questions.

- suggestion no.1 has been for YOU to tst for spark. So far No answer.
Spark. YES/NO?

- suggestion no.2 , -IF- No answers to questions: tow to $hop

- suggestion no.3 (after answer to no.1) will be for injectors; do each click while cranking? (Listen: if u have screwdriver, place it on injector, ear on handle - or 'invest' in mechanic stethoscope 5$)

- suggestion no.4: Which one is cheaper: 2hours trblshoot for nothing, or buy 10$ multimeter, ask salesman show to measure voltage?

.

[spatki1]

Originally Posted by Nahkapohjola

No answers to questions -IF- No answers to questions.

- suggestion no.1 has been for YOU to tst for spark. So far No answer.
Spark. YES/NO?

- suggestion no.2 , -IF- No answers to questions: tow to $hop

- suggestion no.3 (after answer to no.1) will be for injectors; do each click while cranking? (Listen: if u have screwdriver, place it on injector, ear on handle - or 'invest' in mechanic stethoscope 5$)

- suggestion no.4: Which one is cheaper: 2hours trblshoot for nothing, or buy 10$ multimeter, ask salesman show to measure voltage?

.

I am sorry i could not do testing as u mentioned, i borrow multimeter from my friend & check couple of sensors readings were good. Then i frustrated & took to shop. My mechanic told me today as they check compression pressure in each cylender & they see its too low for 3-4 cylenders. They do test timing & eveything & suspect it could be engine motor that is bad, which need to be replaced. Appx estimate including labour with reused engine motor part it will cost me 1500-2000 $. He will give me complete estimate tomarrow once he will get price for motor. I dont know if i should take it to nissan dealer or take second opinion as its almost 2 weeks now i am without car...

What do u think if some cylenders giving low compression pressure reading. From Maunal i fould following....

If pressure stays low Piston Rings may be worn or damage - Replace them or...Valve may be steaking or seating improperly inspect & reapir valve & valve seat

If compression stayes low in 2 cylenders that are next to each other then cylender head gasket is leaking or both cylenders valve component is damaged ... Inspect & rapir as necessary... i dont know how motor comes into picture in cylender pressure...

Pl guide me on this , appriciate ur great help always , thaks in advance...

Thanks

SP

[Nahkapohjola]

Originally Posted by spatki1

...couple of sensors readings were good. ...

-a.- They have a proper compression tester which prints out the pressures on paper slip. They gave it to you. If they didnt, dont expect them to do anythin right. (change shop)
-b.- They did write up the compression tst results for each cylinder (as they dont have proper shop equipment). If they didnt, dont expect them to do anythin right. (change shop)

1. Write HERE the pressure values - for each cylinder 1to6.
2. This CANNOT be the reason for not starting. (change shop)
3. Spark. ??? Where do u live as nobody is not able to check for spark?

---- Is there, or isnt there a SPARK? ----
---- Is there, or isnt there a SPARK? ----
---- Is there, or isnt there a SPARK? ----
---- Is there, or isnt there a SPARK? ----
---- Is there, or isnt there a SPARK? ----
---- Is there, or isnt there a SPARK? ----


I can explain the pressure thing and dive into there detailly. But I really cannot see how no startup is connected with this claim. Low pressure is a separate issue, and if power was available before this startup problem, cannot see any connection. Also you dont speak of excess need to add oil (worn engines puff blue smoke), cannot believe you have been in right shop. And if two cylinders are ok, THE ENGINE WILL START loud and clear - may stutter, but starts. Steer clear from thsi shop, they change on some other crap engine, charge, and still you havent got a car which runs...

abc: Any mechanically sound engine starts IF a. gas injection, b. spark, c. air -on time-.

First isssue: GET IT STARTED. Take it to another shop, give them 2 hours to get it running or at least diagnosed, not one minute more. If theyre not capable, again wrong shop... For this reason, check now all your friends for references for local known good service ppl. One indication of a capable service guy is that theyre busy: have to wait...

.

[spatki1]

As you told i decided to take it another shop for trobleshooting.

I asked my regular mechanic but he suggested to take it to dealer as he dont have proper eqiupments to check, & will have quicker trobleshooting of problem.

Dealer have look & identified its timing chain problem, Timing sleeps atleast 8-10 teeths which is causing trouble. It might be the reason for low compression pressure in three cylenders. The firest 3 cylender giving 50 60 & 50 readings. Dealer give me estimate of appx 2000$ including Parts & labour to fix timing issue, which i think too much for timing problem. He also told me they not sure if its further damage to engine then new engine will cost me 5500$ + Tax, i not even buy my car to that cost....

I am thinking to taking to god mechanic to fix timing issue, if you can tell me how much it should cost ? I check parts cost in Advanced auto parts it will cost max 70-80 $...

Pl suggest

Thanks

SP

[Nahkapohjola]

Originally Posted by spatki1

... low compression pressure in three cylenders. ... not sure if its further damage ...

If timing chain jumps 10 teeth, that means costly problems. This fits with the compression tst results... and neither will start. This condition is diagnosable by a mechanic, only 'special tool' is troubleshootin skills, so maybe next time find another regular...

Minimum is new chain & guide/tightenin bit swap, seals. The chain will stretch when it jumps, dont use old one. Hopefully its only the chain, and not bent valves - I am pessimistic. I suppose that the job price is common at stealership, u should get it half price at another shop. My guess for best case scenario is 4-600$... you'll know as u first ask what timing chain swap costs. You may ask from dealers outside u area for this... The parts u quote may not be enough - what exactly are the part(s)?

Now u have dignosis, you can call shops for quotation, you already have stealership reference. IF Good shop, u get written price, & date when it supposedly ready. ...Try to ask input from friend or anybody for good shops around u, references. The price will vary depending on what is found as engine is opened. Take pessimistic view how much the total will be...

Whatever u do, let the shop u select open the engine first. STOP and no hurry. Negotiate what should be done, what has to, will be replaced, total cost... Write down these details, then ask your regular mech for opinion. Important: youre the bo$$! There is no need for you to know all bits and parts. Take second opinion, maybe have the dissassembled bitts with you in plastic bag... Your reg mech will surely give opinion free, only some leg work for u. But these are taxfee thousands, I do take lots steps for 1000$...

Meanwhile seek in the net for replacement engine (or whole wreck) so u know how much they will cost, might become cheaper? (Japanese law requires them to change engine every 3yrs, and thats why there is big supply of little used engines...)

[dvwagh]

Originally Posted by Nahkapohjola

If timing chain jumps 10 teeth, that means costly problems. This fits with the compression tst results... and neither will start. This condition is diagnosable by a mechanic, only 'special tool' is troubleshootin skills, so maybe next time find another regular...

Minimum is new chain & guide/tightenin bit swap, seals. The chain will stretch when it jumps, dont use old one. Hopefully its only the chain, and not bent valves - I am pessimistic. I suppose that the job price is common at stealership, u should get it half price at another shop. My guess for best case scenario is 4-600$... you'll know as u first ask what timing chain swap costs. You may ask from dealers outside u area for this... The parts u quote may not be enough - what exactly are the part(s)?
_________________________________________
SP== Parts list given by Dealer is below

Camshaft Chain -3 Nos ( Appx 160$)
Tentioner Chain- 3 Nos ( Appx 200$)
Chain Guide - 2 ( 50 $)
Camshaft Sprocket - 6 ( 270$)
Sproket Crank - 1- (28$)
Oil Seal Crank- 6.65 $
Oil Gasket: 10$
Oil Gasket -10$

Total Parts Cost appx 750$ & Labour Appx 850$= Total 1600 $

__________________________________________________ ___


Now u have dignosis, you can call shops for quotation, you already have stealership reference. IF Good shop, u get written price, & date when it supposedly ready. ...Try to ask input from friend or anybody for good shops around u, references. The price will vary depending on what is found as engine is opened. Take pessimistic view how much the total will be...
__________________________________________________ ____
SP== I checked with most of the mechanics here everyone coming with atlest 10 -12hrs labour for 600-800$, TC Parts are not easily available on Advance Auto Parts or Autozone, Those are delaer parts need to be ordered theu NIssan dealer only

Chapest labour I got is appx 550 $ for this job, who gives me gurantee for 90 days for job done when i asked. Which help me to save 300-400$ appx as comapre to Nissan dealer.

What do u think do i really need to change all TC related parts as listed above or just few of them once mechnic will open the Engine??

__________________________________________________ _-

Whatever u do, let the shop u select open the engine first. STOP and no hurry. Negotiate what should be done, what has to, will be replaced, total cost... Write down these details, then ask your regular mech for opinion. Important: youre the bo$$! There is no need for you to know all bits and parts. Take second opinion, maybe have the dissassembled bitts with you in plastic bag... Your reg mech will surely give opinion free, only some leg work for u. But these are taxfee thousands, I do take lots steps for 1000$...

Meanwhile seek in the net for replacement engine (or whole wreck) so u know how much they will cost, might become cheaper? (Japanese law requires them to change engine every 3yrs, and thats why there is big supply of little used engines...)

__________________________________________________ __
SP= I checked for replacement engine , nothing much found, my earlier mechanic given me quote for used engine with 56 K milage for appx 2000$ including labour . I dont know how to trust to buy engine from outside when it involves atleast 1000$ labour , withy no gurantee how that engine will work..........

______________________________________________
Seek ur guidence again , as i am in delima even though if i spent 1200-1600 $v to fix the Timing Chain problem if it will fix the problem after that if it would have further damage to Engine Valves or Piston Rings...

what are the possibilities of that ???

Please give ur valuable feedback

Thanks again

SP

[Nahkapohjola]

"...do i really need to change all TC related parts as..."
Camshaft Chain - 1 Nos ( Appx 60$)
Tentioner Chain- 1 Nos ( Appx 70$)
Chain Guide - 1 ( 25 $)
Camshaft Sprocket - None
Sproket Crank - None
All seals
--->Best scenario, U dont know what u dont know. U have to open the system, see... The problem at stealership usually is that they want to change every part that ha$ a scracth to boost revenue.


"...I dont know how to trust to buy engine from outside...labor..."
- Engine is engine, mine, yours. As we can read here, we cannot put our trust to 'my' engine. They do break...
- Work charge (in thousands) will be about the same in both cases?
- Worst case scenario (, all broken, bent valves) surpasses the used engine swap?

Only capable mechanic may say if valves bent after cam side has been opened. I have opened some handfuls, I would need to take heads off, valves out. Double the worktime, plus price for valve work, total 3k? Ask the mechanic this question and compare answers: which one gives best? 'Cheapest' mech might be most expensive, stealership price gouge is no warranty...

As said, after opening one may know. If sum seems to stand below 1k, repair. If it goes above, thinkabaout new engine. Whats left? Roll dice. (The Engine u buy -if- , should come with some kind warranty)

Edit: If valves are bent, its b/c they have hit the pistonds due to wrong timing (chain jump). When this happens, the valve hit leaves marks on piston top. No hit marks, dirty piston(s) = no bent valves. This can be viewed with a scope: plugs out, scope in to each cylinder. Maybe u can rent scope somewhere? Cheapest on net that I've found (me wannabe buyer) is here: http://www.uniqueproductsonline.com/opticscope.html ...Buy that one, then sell it t me at 50%. The cheaper one needs a led light.

.