Stuck - removing RH driveaxle from bearing mount

[Allen McCready]

I am stuck again on my 97 camry le, 4 cyl, auto, abs, having exceeded the details provided in my Haynes manual. Removing the outer end of the passenger driveaxle was easy. It slid right out. However, after I took out the nut holding the driveaxle in the bearing mount, the driveaxle bearing remains stuck in the mount, apparently rusted in.

With my camry up on stands, for many hours, I have used WD-40, pry bars, screwdrivers, hammers, punches, etc. trying to coax that bearing out and the attached driveaxle with it.

Any advice, cautions, etc. would be appreciated...I am stuck.

In the meantime, I am considering doing the following:
1. Seeing what leaving the WD40 on all night might have accomplished.

2. Applying heat with a propane torch to the bearing mount, hoping the mount will expand faster than the bearing race, freeing the driveaxle.

3. Removing or at least dropping down the exhaust pipe, which is blocking tool access to the differential side of the bearing mount. If I just drop down the engine end, the pipe will still be partially in the way. Removing the whole aging exhaust may be more difficult than the driveaxle.

4. Removing the rear engine mount bracket, which has the bearing mount integrated into it, along with the driveaxle that is stuck in it, so that I can better get at the problem area. I realize that I have to use a jack somewhere under the engine to take the load off the mount, then support the engine after the mount is removed. I am leery of doing this. I am not sure where to support the engine. The mount and bracket are huge and heavy. That assembly may be even more difficult to re-install.

[Brian R.]

WD40 is not penetrating oil. Use penetrating oil.

[Allen McCready]

Originally Posted by Brian R.

WD40 is not penetrating oil. Use penetrating oil.

Brian R.

Thanks for the great tip. I hope you are onto something.

I'm actually not using WD40. I'm using a generic. I think it is from Pepboys. It's a super lubricant. The can says it's also for loosening rusty parts, but it does NOT say it is penetrating oil, so tomorrow I will look for some penetrating oil at the auto stores.

Again, I hope this works...thanks.

[Brian R.]

You're welcome. If you heat it with a torch, heat it evenly.

[azw]

First a comment on Allen's situation, then 2 related problems I really need help with.

On the passenger side there is a snap ring that holds a bearing in a support about a foot from the transaxle. This snap ring
is supposed to be squeezed with pliers and be slipped out of its groove so you can pull the axle out. (I don't think there's any ring on the transaxle spline of the axle. It's just the snap ring that holds the axle in place.)

I wonder if Allen saw this ring? Or maybe Toyota quit using it by 97?


On to my two problems. I've got a two similar problems with a 95 Camry, 4 cyl, automatic.

FIRST: One side of the snap ring isn't budging. I can get the other side pried out-0-with trouble--about 1/3 of the way around the axle. The stuck side seems to be frozen in place or wedged in. I've tried tapping on the axle lightly and pushing/pulling on it. No change.

Do you have to do anything special to get it out? What wyould you recommend I try next. I'm out of ideas.

Except that I'm considering removing the rear underside engine mount, which is what the bearing support is part of. Frankly, I'm not sure whether that would create other problems or that I could get it back in place without an engine hoist.


SECOND: I'm having trouble getting the remanufactured driver's side axle back in. I'm pushing and wiggling, and grunting, but can't get it to snap back in. I've heard that the ring might be too big, but I'm not sure that's the issue. (And I'd hate to think I'd make it too small and the axle would pop out!)

What method can I use to coax the axle back in so the little ring clicks into place? Can you use a mallet on the axle end (doubt it) or use a bar and hammer to pound on the ridges in the innermost CV joint casing to try to drive it in?


I'll be grateful for any help. Thanks!

[Allen McCready]

AZW,

I have successfully removed both driveaxles and installed remanufactured driveaxles in their place.

Yes, I saw and removed this split ring, as well as the bearing mount bolt, which keeps the bearing race (?) from rotating. The split ring is apparently still necessary on the 97 to hold the driveaxle firmly into the differential housing. The part of the shaft on that passenger driveaxle that fits into the differential housing does NOT have a clip ring, as does the driver's side. The driver's side driveaxle of course does not have a bearing mount with split ring to hold it firmly into the differential housing.

My split ring on the passenger side was not stuck, as yours is. However, it was not easy positioning pliers on the ring ends to get the ring out. One side of your ring may be stuck for several reasons, e.g., (1) it is rusted in place, (2) the bearing is pressing against only that side and not the other. Some possibilities are: the bearing was not installed all the way in the mount; the bearing has shifted during use; you may have previously pounded on the driveaxle.

It seems most likely that the ring is just rusted in place. In that case, applying a super penetrating oil, such as Blaster (my local Pepboys store had it) and tapping lightly will work, although it may take time and several applications.

While waiting for the penetrating oil to work, you may want to carefully horizontally (approximately) insert a blunt tool, e.g., a metal punch, against the stuck side of the ring, and pound on it towards the differential housing. I would avoid letting the tool directly hit the inner part of the bearing, as this may make the bearing harder to remove by expanding it against the bearing mount.

A tip for re-installing the split ring is to pre-position the ring on the driveaxle before inserting the driveaxle back through the bearing mount. Then use some thin wire to wrap around the ends of the split ring to draw them together. After the driveaxle is back through the bearing mount far enough to allow the split ring to be held in place, cut the wire and the ring will spring into place.

I tried a WD-40 generic many times on both sides of the bearing after I removed the split ring, but it didn't work. That's when I got the Blaster super penetrating oil from Pepboys, but it still took many applications and a lot of pounding with several different tools. For example, I used the points of a ball joint separator wedged between the bearing mount and the big weight that is located on the driveaxle between the bearing mount and the passenger wheel. I also used combinations of other tools to create a similar wedge effect between the bearing mount and that weight. However, after the bearing gets dislodged and moves about a 1/16", the wedges were holding the bearing from moving any further out of the mount. Consequently, I then kept applying more penetrating oil and using the ball joint separator points to pound almost horizontally against the big driveaxle weight towards the passenger wheel. Though I was working with the car up on jack stands and not a lift, I was still able to use a rock hammer to get good solid hits on the ball joint separator. I wished I had done that earlier.

Another tip on the passenger side is to thoroughly clean the inside of the bearing mount with penetrating oil and emery paper to remove all traces of rust, before installing a replacement axle. I also applied a very light coating of high temperature grease on the inside of the bearing mount and the outside of the bearing on the driveaxle. Even so, I had to use a thick piece of plywood and a hammer to carefully pound on the hub end of the driveaxle to force the driveaxle bearing into the bearing mount, keeping the driveaxle as straight as possible. Then I put a little of that grease around both sides of the bearing while it was in the bearing mount to act as a seal and help keep contaminants out in the future.

On the driver's side, I first found that I had to rotate the driveaxle as I was inserting it carefully into the differential housing, through the rubber seal. When the driveaxle then moved noticeably inward, it was of course stopped by the clip ring on the end of the axle. Shoving the axle with my hands didn't provide enough force to get the clip ring in far enough to pop into the groove inside the differential housing. Consequently, I placed a block of thick plywood (which resists splitting better) over the hub end of the driveaxle, aligned the axle as straight as possible, then carefully struck the hub end of the driveaxle through the plywood with a hammer, just enough to pop the clip ring into its grove in the differential housing. This worked right away.

However, after starting the other end of the driver's side driveaxle into the hub, I found that I could not force the hub assembly ball-joint studs back onto the control arm, even with a pry bar pressing down on the control arm. Eventually, when I tried rotating the driveaxle several times, I found that the driveaxle compressed its length, and I was then able to easily get the ball-joint studs on the hub assembly into the holes on the control arm.

As a precaution, I also put a very light coating of high temperature grease on the hub side shaft of both driveaxles before inserting them into the hub. I also put a very light coating of grease into the hub hole. I would be very careful doing this, because you do NOT want any grease to move from that area onto your disc rotors and then onto your pads. Once the pads get contaminated, braking power may be severely diminished.

NOTE: I had no problems getting the driveaxles out of the hubs, when I started removal. The hub ends were only very slightly rusted and almost fell out themselves.

I have been driving the car for the last several days and have had no problems.

[azw]

Wow, that's a thorough answer! Thanks so much for detailing your success. It all sounds reasonable. I'll give it a try this morning and report back.

[azw]

You're right, Allen, one of those plastic hammers with shot in it worked well to get the axle to click in. I had a 2.5# one first. That didn't do it. I borrowed one about twice that size which did work.

Man, getting the ball joint back on the control arm is a real struggle. I had to pry the control arm down and wrestle the ball joint/hub up onto it. It'd be easier if I had some heft to me.

I don't have the passenger side off yet. At first, I didn't understand your instructions for getting the ball joint on the control arm, but now I do, so I'll try that next time. I found it became easier if I turned the steering wheel a little to orient the bolts better.

Now I'm going to try to remove the snap ring. I've got the stuck side a little looser with penetrating oil. A neighbor lent me some picks to use to pry it out. We'll see.....

[Allen McCready]

Originally Posted by azw

You're right, Allen, one of those plastic hammers with shot in it worked well to get the axle to click in. I had a 2.5# one first. That didn't do it. I borrowed one about twice that size which did work.

Man, getting the ball joint back on the control arm is a real struggle. I had to pry the control arm down and wrestle the ball joint/hub up onto it. It'd be easier if I had some heft to me.

I don't have the passenger side off yet. At first, I didn't understand your instructions for getting the ball joint on the control arm, but now I do, so I'll try that next time. I found it became easier if I turned the steering wheel a little to orient the bolts better.

Now I'm going to try to remove the snap ring. I've got the stuck side a little looser with penetrating oil. A neighbor lent me some picks to use to pry it out. We'll see.....

azw,

Glad to you hear you got the driver's side in and have added some tips too. Good luck on that passenger side ring and bearing.

[azw]

I pried the ring out. I found that a variety of screwdrivers worked well.

Now I'm where you were. The bearing is stuck in the support.

I'm not having much success. It seems as though this is going to take some major banging to get the bearring to move and I'm not getting more than a medium tap.

How high do you think you had the car jacked up? Maybe I need to go higher.

What did your pickle fork look like and where did you get it? Mine is 15 3/4" long, about 1 5/8 wide (too wide for the space I have available), and about 7/8" thick at the fattest part, but I can't get it in that far because it's too wide to go in that far.

How did you hold two tools together to get a wider wedge? Just hold them in one hand?

What kinds of tools did you find worked well together?

Thanks again!

[Allen McCready]

Originally Posted by azw

I pried the ring out. I found that a variety of screwdrivers worked well.

Now I'm where you were. The bearing is stuck in the support.

I'm not having much success. It seems as though this is going to take some major banging to get the bearring to move and I'm not getting more than a medium tap.

How high do you think you had the car jacked up? Maybe I need to go higher.

What did your pickle fork look like and where did you get it? Mine is 15 3/4" long, about 1 5/8 wide (too wide for the space I have available), and about 7/8" thick at the fattest part, but I can't get it in that far because it's too wide to go in that far.

How did you hold two tools together to get a wider wedge? Just hold them in one hand?

What kinds of tools did you find worked well together?

Thanks again!

My jack stands were set at 14" high. I could have gone another 2". Were I to do it again, I would add the 2". I was not on a creeper, which took up too much room. I only had the front end on stands, but that didn't seem to make much difference.

What you called the "pickle" fork (I called it the ball joint separator) was 16" long. The handle was 7/8" in diameter. The fork tines were 1 5/8" across both together. Each tine was 3/8" wide. The tines were 3" in length and 3/4" thick at the thickest part. This tool probably weighs several pounds and was apparently close to the size of your tool.

You can use this tool in two ways. First, you can put either end of this tool up against the round weight on the driveaxle that is next to the bearing mount and to which the inner boot is connected. The tool should be as horizontal as possible to give you plenty of room to swing a hammer against it. Then pound on the other end, or pound with just the tool.

Second, you can use the tool as a wedge between the bearing mount and the round weight on the driveaxle. In this case, the tool is almost vertical, making pounding on the bottom somewhat difficult. That driveaxle weight was somewhat triangular on my driveaxle, so rotating it to various positions made a difference in how well this tool fit. When I pounded on this tool, it would eventually move that triangular weight around, making pounding more difficult. Had the tines of the fork on the tool been far enough apart to fit around the driveaxle between the weight and the bearing, the tool would have been much more effective, especially if the car were up on a lift, so that one could stand erect and pound. I suspect that the dealer has such a tool and a similar one for the driver's driveaxle. Obviously the dealer has a lift.

I also had a worn out large chisel about an inch wide that had a blunt end from wear. I used that as a wedge along with a large allen wrench to keep that chisel from falling out. I pounded the combination up into the space between the bearing mount and the round driveaxle weight.

I held these tools together by hand, however, you may benefit from taping them together. A block of hardwood in wedge shape may be a possibility, because you can simply cut it wide enough to fit in the space. I didn't think to try this. Ideally, this type of wedge would have a metal plate attached to both sides of the wedge to keep the wood from collapsing. However, adding the plates may be harder or time consuming than using some other tool.

I hate to tell you this, but I spent several days using penetrating oil and pounding with various tools in various ways, before I first saw the bearing start to mount out of the bearing mount. It was still hours with more penetrating oil and pounding before the bearing finally came out.

I believe using the ball joint separator horizontally did the most good, along with the penetrating oil.

[azw]

Thanks again, that info helps me recreate your success. It also lets me know I'm not going crazy here. If it took you days, then I've only just begun, but the good news is that's it's possible because you got it out! This makes it seem doable.

I borrowed a large cold chisel-like tool that might fit better in the space between the bearing support and axle weight. It is shorter, too, which will give me more room to bang away.

I suspect that you need a certain level of oomph before anything will budge, and that I could tap for years with no results.

A young mechanic I talked to tonight said that if I don't care about the bearing, that I should just wack away at the back side of that, trying to hit the race and not the bearing itself. I've borrowed a couple of round punches to give that a try.

He also suggested heating the support until it's red, but not hitting it then because it could be deformed or damaged. That seems a little riskier.

Here goes.

[csaxon]

Some info that may help. It's a Toyota truck but procedures are similar. Look at bottom of page for more axle info. http://www.diynet.com/diy/ab_suspens...277531,00.html

[Allen McCready]

Originally Posted by azw

Thanks again, that info helps me recreate your success. It also lets me know I'm not going crazy here. If it took you days, then I've only just begun, but the good news is that's it's possible because you got it out! This makes it seem doable.

I borrowed a large cold chisel-like tool that might fit better in the space between the bearing support and axle weight. It is shorter, too, which will give me more room to bang away.

I suspect that you need a certain level of oomph before anything will budge, and that I could tap for years with no results.

A young mechanic I talked to tonight said that if I don't care about the bearing, that I should just wack away at the back side of that, trying to hit the race and not the bearing itself. I've borrowed a couple of round punches to give that a try.

He also suggested heating the support until it's red, but not hitting it then because it could be deformed or damaged. That seems a little riskier.

Here goes.

The large cold chisel-like tool sounds good.

I tried whacking at the bearing right after I got the ring out. However, that side (differential housing side) of the bearing mount is not shaped to let you get at the bearing race, but that is the side you need to pound on. There is a flange there that is intended to keep the race and therefore the bearing from coming out the differential housing side of the bearing mount.

Instead I ended up pounding on the bearing and may have made mine worse by expanding the innards up against the race and the race up tighter against the bearing mount. However, had I not eventually gotten the bearing loose, I was considering towing the car to a shop or trying to drill or pound out the inside of the bearing and taking my chances. The risk there is that the race may have still been stuck inside of the bearing mount. However, with the driveaxle out of the way, you have a shot at getting the bearing/engine mount bracket out to replace or work with it. With the driveaxle in the way, there is one bolt holding the bracket in that I could not reach even with very long handles on various socket wrenches and extensions.

I tried heat twice with a propane torch with no apparent results. The second time, I heated it so much that the bearing started smoking, then stopped. Then I talked to a Toyota dealer mechanic who said to be careful to heat it only a little and heat it evenly around the area, so as not to damage the bearing. Since I was replacing the driveaxle, I wasn't concerned about damaging the bearing. When I saw it smoking, I thought I may have hardened the corrosion around the bearing race. The idea of heating the bearing mount is to make it expand faster than the bearing race, thereby loosening the race. It didn't work by itself.

However, who knows which individual thing or combination thereof finally caused the bearing to come loose?

I hope you get it soon, because I thought I was trapped in "The Twilight Zone" when I did it, and I would rather you not get to that point. That's why I am taking the time to help get you out of there faster. If they wanted, I am sure that Toyota could have done a better job of designing that setup so that non-dealer or home mechanics could easily do it. At least a shield to keep contaminants out would have been good.

[azw]

I really do appreciate your advice! The technique has been very helpful, but it's also moral support. As you said, this goes on so long that it feels really demoralizing. What is this, my third day of working on the axles?

How many hours do you think you were pounding on this thing before it moved? And how many did it take once it started moving? Were you really wacking away at it?

Did the axle still qualify as a core when you were done?

Yeah, after studying the new axle and the original, it looks like the race is a very thin ring, at least the part I could possibly pound on. And the actual race isn't visible from the back side, where I'd need to hit it. Plus, the exhaust is pretty much in the way. So that doesn't look promising at all.

Tonight I did get 1/16 - 1/8" movement by using the large cold chisel as a wedge between the bearing support and the axle weight.

This may make you feel better about your technique: I can't see any motion resulting from hitting the CV joint case horizontally. Maybe that's effective only after the bearing has already been moved some.

I am leaving the chisel wedged in place overnight. Maybe that'll give it the idea.

Thanks, Art