Japan vs American muscle

[Donham]

This is not to put down anyones car personally... or sound hateful, my best hunting buddy is a only will have Japanese cars/bikes...

I personally don't Hate any car or race of people...

What grips me, is all these kids spurting off how they like to kill off V8's in thier rice rockets, meaning of course how they like to pick on the old fashion "LOW technoligy American V8's with those red necks in them who still think they rule the streets..

I know there are a few 12 and 11 second jap cars running the streets... in every state in many cities... but remember for every one 11 second jap car running the streets, there is a 7-8 second American car somewhere

Just Remember, those old low tech V8 are much more closer to stock than a dinky 2.0 or 3.0 engine with a million tons of turno boost...

These guys running inline 4-6's in Toyota and Mitsubishi's brag they have a much higher tech engine because they have more HP per cubic inch...
Forced induction, or superchargers, Turnos are nothing new, been around since the early 1900's, some of the engines in the 1940's aircraft where fiorced induction, made 2000 and up to 3000 hp in a 7000 lb aircraft (like the Bearcat & F4U-4 Corsair)


20 lbs of boost might give a Supra or 3000GT-VR4 500-600 hp... but my 440 would achive 1500-2000 Rear weel streetable hp with the boost the jap cars run...
Turbo kits of big blocks are custom and cost around $10,000 for a setup, that counts a good intercooler, not counting changing pistons to lower compression and other goodes..

I not deaf to the new cars, and the old saying that
"There is no substitute for cubic inches" is not true in the least...
but with the best mods, V8's Rule

Those jap car with overdriven Turbos, maybe a little spray,,,,, "THERE IS NOTHING MORE YOU CAN DO TO MAKE MORE WORTHWHILE POWER" becaue your almost built to the MAX....

a Simple mild built 454 Chevy can go a long wat... 500-600 is easy...you can get 800-1000 hp out of them with NO BOOST.... NO SPRAY
Just imagine a custom 20 lbs boost Twin Turbo kit for a 454.....
Can you say "no jap engine on the "plannet Earth" could make as much power"

Another Big block car, say a 440 mopar that is 500 cubes, running new alu heads and mods, making 650hp, properly set with a 400 hp NOS... could make over 900 ponies... add 20 lbs of boost and 2000 rear weel hp EASY.
alot of stress yes, but 8 beefy connecting rods to absorb the power, not just 4 or 6 dinky rods to absorb 500-600 hp

________________________________


On the other side of the token, I go to car shows... old time race people I knew, still think the Detriot V8's in the muscle cars rule, one of my friend thinks those old stock muscle cars are enoguh to take on any new cars and esp jap turbo cars...

I say "you might be suprised!", even some of those old 90-93 Eagle Talons, Plymouth Lasers, Mitsubishi Eclips turbos can be made to run high 12's with around $1000 invested.... no bad.

Most of those old standard stock muscle cars people fix up and leave pure stock would be no match for a new stock EVO...


To be honnest, more jap car people seem to talk trash about the American V8's than vice Versa,
Almost like they are declearing a kind of war on American Muscle cars in thier own mind..

they talk trash about how that 5.0 had to "spray" the motor to outrun his Mazda...

but the more you add mods, to both, the more the bigger engine has an advantage.

I say let him take off him bottle, and you remove your turbo, run pure engine...

A time will come when more and more turbo kits will be available for older and modern V8's at lesser prices, what are the small engine jap car people going to do them... to catch up.?

Wait, I know, sell 357 magnum revolver upgrade kids for the jap turbo cars to shoot out the tires of the turbo American v8's car.... an Answer to everything.

scott

[-The Stig-]

Man, I'm all for V8s and american muscle cars... but a post like yours is gonna stir up alot of commotion here on the boards.

First the flames will come... then the name calling... then the mods will step in... and they'll start warning people.... then it'll flame back up, and somebody is going to get banned.

[ZXTT]

Originally posted by Donham


20 lbs of boost might give a Supra or 3000GT-VR4 500-600 hp... but my 440 would achive 1500-2000 Rear weel streetable hp with the boost the jap cars run...

This quote has been used so many times in various forms ... Havent heard of many 1500-2000 rwhp street cars though, any examples?

[-The Stig-]

this is no where near 2000hp... but its pretty damn sweet none-the-less.


Green Slime

[carrrnuttt]

First off, I can see your points.

Second, you'll have to understand that it is not all about horsepower.

You're right about the fact that I can build up a V8 to tremendous power using the same techniques used in beefing up a smaller engine.

What you fail to point out however, is that in a street-car, or even in a race car, you have to have an effective way of putting all that power to the ground.

I would rather drive a 1,000HP Supra than a 1,000HP Camaro anyday. The added torque the Camaro has will make for an entertaining rainy-day drive. The Supra, on the other hand, though probably having prodigious TQ itself, will more than likely be able to put down its power better. I understand that aftermarket suspension mods do exist. But mod for mod, the Supra will have better handling.

It's not about the weight either, since the Supra weighs in at about 3400LBS.

Did you know that an aftermarket spring for a 2000 Mustang can fit a 1974 Mustang also?

The Supra's smaller-displacement motor allows you the convenience of having a peaky powerband. Though some would consider this a disadvantage, in high-HP motors, this is actually an advantage. It allows you to have that "low-HP" powerband you can use in driving around town, or taking a corner safely in a road race. Think of all the major racing series, especially F1. Even in NASCAR, whenever they have to race in a road course setting, they increase the engine restrictions. This is done for safety reasons...they're less concerned about top-speed than not overpowering corners and losing a race or worse, causing a wreck.

I think it was Motor Trend that called an 800+RWHP Viper's gas pedal the "on/off button".

Street-legal and daily-driven are two different things. I am sure that there are a lot of street-legal thousand-plus HP V8 monsters out there. As plentiful as these are, you'll hear more about daily-driven thousand-plus HP Supras or Skylines (especially in Japan, where those cars are more abundant and can pass emissions).

P.S. I'd rather drive a 1000HP Skyline (AWD) anyday than a similar HP Supra. It's about putting the power to good use.

Dragstrips are a different story. But whose town in here has nothing but straight-aways?

[Layla's Keeper]

When Zora-Akrus Duntov created the mythical ArDun OHV conversion heads for the Ford flathead V-8, it was guaranteed that American V-8's would be the torque leaders around the world. Why? Because this set of parts was the true forerunner to the Chrysler Hemi family from the Red Ram on up. Top fuelers are pushrod behemoths. That ends the 1/4mile dragrace argument.

HOWEVER....

I am not Herschel McGriff. I have no desire to slide a Dodge Charger around a road course. When it comes to handling balance, smaller cars with lighter peakier engines are preferable. As such, I tend more towards imports (though they be of the four-cylinder English variety). But you know what? It's all preference. Small engine, big engine, turbo, supercharger, big cubes, nitrous, who cares how you make the power? Make it and drive it! There are too many jackasses on both sides of the fence. If it's a nice car, and a fast car, then it's a nice fast car. Whether it came from Sweden, Australia, New Zealand, Holland, Italy, Yugoslavia, Britain, Ireland, Canada, Germany, Spain, Czechoslovakia, Japan, USA, Malayasia or Korea doesn't matter.

Appreciate performance however you find it, otherwise you'll just miss out on something really cool.

[DemonZX]

Thanks Octagon! Nicely put!

I don't see why there is always this argument on power this and power that?!!?!! Why do we always want more power?...To go faster right? Well, If you have a 600hp Charger and a 600 hp Eclipse who is gonna win? ding! your right the eclipse! It is the speed, and exceleration that matters, not who has the higher number! Thank You, and good-day!

[2strokebloke]

Actually this is a very interesting topic of disscussion - yesterday I payed a visit to the nearest speedway to see locals drag their cars, everything showed up (one person in a minivan, which surprisingly did not set the slow time of the day)
I was thinking though, that here are these big old American cars, with rediculously noisy engines, running times that really weren't too incredible, and here are newer smaller imported cars running the same times.
Then I thought, most hobbyists can afford to own and operate one of these newer cars, not only as a racer for weekends but as a daily driver, while the older American made vehicle would cost mountains of money and be far less reliable to do this double duty... an argument that's usually ignored when this type of comparison is made, truly I have no preference to country of origin so long as it's fun to run.

[EJ20]

lalalala

I drive a rice !!!!!!!!
I am in the 11's !!!!!!
my car is streetable!!!!!!
I only run at 19lb of boost!!!!!

why rice has invaded? MONEY!!!!
my car cost me 23,00o and 10,000 in mod, I am in 11's
now show me a 33,000 non-rice that runs 11's. wait, maybe there is, so to be on the safe side, show me a 33,000 non-rice that is in 11's also have AWD.....

bikes? sorry, Japanese bikes rule the street............ ( except the Ducs.)

[Layla's Keeper]

AWD 401 AMX/Eagles from the late 70's on spray. I saw one run in Wisconsin (the home of American Motors). Those things can run 10's easy. There's your answer.

But when a $7000 Duster can run 11's on spray, who needs AWD?

[Coal]

Nothing can beat a V8 in straight line acceleration when it comes to cost. And nothing can beat them in end for straight line acceleration at this time. I can't think of anything else running under 6sec 1/4 miles.

It's just the way it is. Domestic engines are far more common, far cheaper, and have more displacement.

I like all kinds of cars, you can like the cars you like, but just because you like them doesn't mean the other cars shouldn't get credit where it's due.

Btw, I own imports and domestics, I like each car by itself for different characteristics, I don't care where it's made.

[KrNxRaCer00]

buy a late 80's stang or maro, an u'll build it into 11's for WAY less then 33k.

but as for the topic, one car isn't better then the other. it ALL comes down to personal preference. i have a lot of respect for the big V8's that run 10/11 second passes an shake the ground w/ their huge cams, but at the same time, i don't like their styling an would rather have my teg. yes, it may be slow, but its my car, that i pay foran that i put my money into.

this will be an endless arguement, an red is correct, it will turn into a flame war. check out a similar post "IMPORTS VS DOMESTICS" ur going to see the EXACT same arguements back an forth. pointless really considering neither is better overall.

[94svt5.0]

Originally posted by carrrnuttt

Did you know that an aftermarket spring for a 2000 Mustang can fit a 1974 Mustang also?

Thats not true. The 94 and newer would take one size while the 79-93 would take another. The suspension and frame has changes and evolved over the years, though ignorant rice would say its the exact same replica of the pinto.

[2strokebloke]

Pinto my ass! - you're thinking of the Falcon. Of course the 1st generation mustangs would blow up just as big as the pintos when rear-ended... but that's a different story.

[TatII]

well even though i love that v8 rumble. but it just doens't rev smooth like the way a smaller I4 or V6 does. i love a machine that loves to rev, and its all a matter of preference. i know that a v8 will kill most imports for alot cheaper, and that has the been same argument time and time, but us imports care more about other stuff then goin just straight. our cars are more balanced right off the bat then most domestics, and its more friendlier to the user as well. plus there are lot of v8 guys sayin if you throw a turbo on a v8 a v8 will kill a turbo import. well then why don't you guys throw turbos on your cars more often? stop sayin what if, and just go out and do it. don't say that we're cheating because we have to use turbo. you guys have the same choice, no one is stoping you guys.