Japan vs American muscle

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

Top secret and a 1300hp skyline in Japan Highway tunnel = AWESOME:o

[EJ20]

Originally posted by NSX-R-SSJ20K



AWD's are really easy to screw up on launching from a dead stop thats the only problem. The R34 GTR has a good way of overcoming it but it is not true AWD.

what ? rev the engine at 4.5k and slipped or dump the clutch. AWD has the easiest way to launch.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by Neutrino


and i cannot belive you guys compare cars from 30 years ago with brand new cars and say that they handle worse.....well no duh....its 30 years of technological advancement...a proper comprison would be with the today's modern musche cars like the viper or the Z06

i just wanted to give the super bird as an example of how good that old engineering was....it was a very aerodinamic car....and they did all that without the help of today's cad machines computerised wind tunels etc....

I was basing the comparo off Donham's arguments. He is basically showing that he is enamored with classic muscle. To my credit, I did admit that newer muscle is a lot more advanced, although I also mentioned that as far as suspension treatments go, a 2000 Mustang's aftermarket suspension components bolt right on to a 1974 Mustang's. That should tell you something.

I have always loved muscle. I have always loved ALL cars. I grew with my stepdad having a late 60's (couldn't remember exactly what year) Olds Cutlass with a 442 in it.

I did, however, became less enamored when I beat a friend of a friend's 69 Charger with my 1990 Integra (b16, bolt-on's, ECU). Granted, his car was stock, but I admit to shaking in my boots before the race. He wasn't a happy man afterwards.

Oh, he says he's ran a best of 15.1 with that Charger.

P.S.

I just have to say how proud I am of everybody right now for keeping this thread civil...let's all try to keep it that way.

[DeViL]

I grew with my stepdad having a late 60's (couldn't remember exactly what year) Olds Cutlass with a 442 in it.

So his Cutlass had a Cutlass inside it? Wow lol. The 4-4-2 was a car, perhaps you meant 455 V8? 4-4-2 was to Cutlass as Chevelle was to Malibu.

[pimpclipse]

With an awd u control how much power is getting to your rear wheel and vice versa. When you do a hard launch with an awd all the weight isnt going to the back of the car...U can have 70% power goin to the end and 30% to the front to make up for the traction and hp and the launch would be extreme with high hp. The dsms u were talkin about with slicks on the front are gst's (fwd eclipse) which are more common than the gsx (awd eclipse and best car ever made next to the viper...) Please dont ask me how i could say the gsx and viper are best car ever made. Matter of opinion...and i own a gsx, viper next...You guys need to get with the times and mix things up a bit. 4 cyclinder domestics are the way to go. That way u get the best of both worlds right? TeamZX2 all the way baby. I think my n/a ford zx2 could take a cobra in the 1/4 if he missed his 1st 2nd and 3rd gear and his car died. Maybe then i couldbeat him. Im blabbering.

[94svt5.0]

Originally posted by carrrnuttt

I also mentioned that as far as suspension treatments go, a 2000 Mustang's aftermarket suspension components bolt right on to a 1974 Mustang's. That should tell you something.

Where do you get that from? The 79-93 fox body mustangs take a different spring from the 94- new Though the platform is aged its is not unchanged through out the years. The 94 and newer is much more rigid and a better handler then the fox stangs. Dont know what your talking about with the 74 stangs, those are known as the mustang II. The front suspension on the mustangII is very popular with custom hot rodders to use on there cars. cut the rice jargon and check the facts.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by DeViL


So his Cutlass had a Cutlass inside it? Wow lol. The 4-4-2 was a car, perhaps you meant 455 V8? 4-4-2 was to Cutlass as Chevelle was to Malibu.

Give me a break:finger:...I was eight, a'ight?

All I know is it was a HUGE and LOUD motor, and he used to scare me as I lay pinned against the seat (back, front, doesn't matter), as he shwoed off that car's power.

All I remember him telling me about the motor was that it was a big-block 4-sumthin with dual carbs. Anyone know what it might be?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by 94svt5.0


Where do you get that from? The 79-93 fox body mustangs take a different spring from the 94- new Though the platform is aged its is not unchanged through out the years. The 94 and newer is much more rigid and a better handler then the fox stangs. Dont know what your talking about with the 74 stangs, those are known as the mustang II. The front suspension on the mustangII is very popular with custom hot rodders to use on there cars. cut the rice jargon and check the facts.

I used to work at performance parts store. All I know was that we had these Eibach springs and that the boxes were labeled "1974 to 2000 Mustang". I asked the owner/manager of the store about it, and he said that that's what he got from Eibach, so that's how he sells 'em. He also said he's sold the exact springs to '99-'00 (at that time, dunno if it'll fit '01's) 'Stangs all the way to an '88 GT owner. They never came back to complain about it. If somehow I am wrong, so be it...but that's where I get my "knowledge" from about that".

[94svt5.0]

Originally posted by carrrnuttt



I used to work at performance parts store. All I know was that we had these Eibach springs and that the boxes were labeled "1974 to 2000 Mustang". I asked the owner/manager of the store about it, and he said that that's what he got from Eibach, so that's how he sells 'em. He also said he's sold the exact springs to '99-'00 (at that time, dunno if it'll fit '01's) 'Stangs all the way to an '88 GT owner. They never came back to complain about it. If somehow I am wrong, so be it...but that's where I get my "knowledge" from about that".

The springs are different sizes for the fox bodys and the sn-95, not to mention the difference from the mustangII, it was maybe 79-00 not 74-00. I guess if the springs where for slamming then they would interchange, only the drop would be dramatic on the fox, since it already has shorter springs then the sn-95.

[DeViL]

It was most likely a 455 thats what Oldsmobile and Pontiac used versus Chevy's 454. The 455 I think put out more torque but it had less horsepower, about as low as the LS5 454 (like 380 hp or something I'm not too sure). Don't worry about it I'm just messing with you.

Ok what I want to know is what all in todays technology makes these cars so much faster then the older cars like a 65 GTO? There you got a 3,100 lbs car with like 360 hp and torque to match, and it still only ran low 14's. Versus a 02 Trans Am which has 325, probably more like 330 hp, and 350 lbs of torque, and runs almost 12's. Thats crazy. I know it has a lot better aerodynamics and better wheels, tires for traction, but that can't all be it. Those Trans Ams are also heavier. My 88 weighs 3750 lbs.

[-The Stig-]

Originally posted by carrrnuttt
I grew with my stepdad having a late 60's (couldn't remember exactly what year) Olds Cutlass with a 442 in it.

I did, however, became less enamored when I beat a friend of a friend's 69 Charger with my 1990 Integra

Oh, he says he's ran a best of 15.1 with that Charger.

As Devil said the 442 was a car of its own... but the 442 actually ment something. Had to do with the options.

4-4-2 : 4 barre carbl, 4 speed manual, 2 (dual) exhaust

For sake of arguement we'll say it was a '69 Olds 442. Engine Options were for the 442..

(W-32) 400 V8 350bhp@4800rpm, 440lb-ft@3200rpm.
(W-30) 400 V8 360bhp@5400rpm, 440lb-ft@3600rpm.
(Hurst/Olds) 455 V8 380bhp@5000rpm, 500lb-ft@3200rpm.
Performance: (Hurst/Olds) 455/380: 0-60 in 5.9 sec, 1/4 mile in 14.03 sec @ 101mph.

The '69 Charger wasn't the greatest contender Unlesss it was a R/T 500 with the 426 Hemi, those ran mid 13s all day. The Hemi's were rated at 425hp... but were estimated to be near 500hp. They were also the 11th fastest muscle car of all time, 1st being '66 A/C Cobra 427 with a ET 12.2 @ 118mph

By the sound of your friends Charger, it may have been a tired old 318.

'69 Charger engine options.
318 V8 230bhp.
383 V8 335bhp.
426 V8 Hemi 425bhp@5000rpm, 490lb-ft@4000rpm.
440 V8 375bhp@4600rpm, 480lb-ft@3200rpm.

[-The Stig-]

Originally posted by DeViL


Ok what I want to know is what all in todays technology makes these cars so much faster then the older cars like a 65 GTO? There you got a 3,100 lbs car with like 360 hp and torque to match, and it still only ran low 14's. Versus a 02 Trans Am which has 325, probably more like 330 hp, and 350 lbs of torque, and runs almost 12's. Thats crazy. I know it has a lot better aerodynamics and better wheels, tires for traction, but that can't all be it. Those Trans Ams are also heavier. My 88 weighs 3750 lbs.

You said it yourself... its the tires and suspension... back when my car was still cool.. hehe... they still used bias-ply tires.

which absolutely suck donkey ass for grip...

Lets not forget they're carbuerated... thats not the worlds most efficient means of fuel delivery.

The older transmissions also werent as efficient... blah blah... you know the story.

Like you said its a number of things that make the newer cars muchhh easier to go faster in. Older cars make up for this in being somewhat unlimited to what they can do powerwise...

Also, as you said your Pontiac weighs more than that of a Camaro of equal age... Its cause Pontiacs were usually equipt with more standard luxury items than Chevy. Pontiac's line of cars has always been a bit more luxurious for the dollar than Chevy... Similar to Toyota/Lexus... just on a more white trash level.

[DeViL]

They also aren't a pain in the ass to work on compared to the complaints I hear of new Firebird and Camaro owners. Speaking of communist rednecks there was a Nova behind me a couple nights ago, blue, looked exactly like yours. I'm just cruising along doing the speed limit (I knew way back in the distance there was a cop, probably watching me or him). Apparantly I was going too slow for these kids in the Nova so he lines up next to me and takes off like I'm going to do something. Sucker was loud as I found out after coming behind him he had no mufflers. He sped off way down the road and I dont know if it was because of him taking off behind me like that or him speeding at later on, but there was definately a couple cops hauling ass to catch him lol.

[RACER D12]

How come its never Euro vs jap or American you all know were the REAL competition

[The CoCoNuT BoY]

AMEN to that brother!
its all about the EURO