Ferrari Modena, Porsche 996 Turbo or Honda NSX ?

[benroliver]

i swore it was a 3,5, oh well

[BlOOe46]

I dont even know why u guys are even talking about comaros and z06 vettes. They have 5.7 liter motors barely making 400 hp and cheap interiors. THey are good cars for the money but should not even be mentioned in the same sentece as a porsche and a ferrari, or even the nsx for that matter.

please stop being biggoted and so conservative about american performance, the z06 is in the same league as porsches, ferraris, and acuras on the track . . . if u talk about how rigid and stiff the ferrari's frame is . . . then why the hell are u talking about ur friend's dad's 360 spider??? why would he even bother taking that car on the track?

i guarantee u a stock z06 would take out a 360 on the quarter mile and on any circuit . . . even WITH a cheap interior (which is the biggest factor in speed anyway . . . oh yeah, that and hp/liter, we cant forget that meaningless ratio)

[90EX]

360 Modena.

[Jimster]

Originally posted by BlOOe46


i guarantee u a stock z06 would take out a 360 on the quarter mile and on any circuit . . . even WITH a cheap interior (which is the biggest factor in speed anyway . . . oh yeah, that and hp/liter, we cant forget that meaningless ratio)

Sorry you are wrong.........very wrong the 360 has an endless advantage over the ZO6 on the track- the Corvette chassis can only be described as sloppy- the Ferrari on the other hand has a beautifully designed and engineered chassis with insparation from the F1 Ferrari design team. The Corvette even runs the 1/4 mile a few fractions of a second slower than the 36.

[BlOOe46]

endless advantage?

can u please cite examples of the Z06 chassis' "sloppiness" and why the 360 is so much more of a track car?

[Jimster]

Originally posted by BlOOe46
endless advantage?

can u please cite examples of the Z06 chassis' "sloppiness" and why the 360 is so much more of a track car?

My experience- simple as that- the 360 is far more stiffe and rigid than the Vette without losing out on an awesome driving experience in cmparision to the ZO6 (Never driven but have driven a C5 standard Vette- same chassis and handling set up) The Vette is basically a dinosaur in a supermodels body- looks sexy- moves fast down a strip- but is very old underneath. and also rather prone to oversteer (More so than the 360) which means lower entry/exit speeds in a corner.


there was even one instance where a Mazda MX5 beat a Corvette ZO6 around a track- don't under estimate power/wieght ratios

[BlOOe46]

the zo6 is the same handling and chassis setup as a normal c5?

my friend, u are mistaken, if there is one thing ive heard about the z06 its BEEN the handling and chassis setup . . . these areas are NOT stock off the c5, what do u think theyre charging extra for? 55 hp?

and an mx5 beat a z06? i dont call that power to weight ratio, the z06 has 400hp and 3000lbs - i call that a shitty z06 driver and an experienced mx5 driver

[crayzayjay]

i'm sorry, but theres no way a Z06 beats a Modena around a track
The Ferrari has a higher power to weight ratio and a sharper chassis.

Sorry, but no cigar :bandit:

[BlOOe46]

comparison of power:weight ratios of z06 and modena:

modena: 400bhp : 3064lbs ~ 7.66lbs : 1bhp

z06: 405bhp : 3118lbs ~ 7.70lbs : 1bhp
(both cars stats taken from rsportscars.com)

where is this power:weight advantage?

and also explain to me how the modena's chassis is so much more rigid, im sure u can find some qualitative/quantitative values to support ur claim . . . btw, 'the modena is better because its a ferrari' will not be tolerated as a response

as u can see here, the ferrari is at no advantage with power:weight, and it is even at a lesser advantage with its power band, the vette makes its peak hp at 6k rpm, while the modena makes its peak hp at 8500 rpm

lets also look at torque numbers while were at it

z06 - 400lb ft at 4800 rpm
modena - 275lb ft at 4750 rpm

please give me some reason to believe the ferrari has an advantage at the track . . . im at a loss here

(btw all info on specs was taken from rsportscars.com)

[crayzayjay]

360 Modena - 292bhp/ton
Corvette Z06 - 277bhp/ton

courtesy of evo magazine

Not an enormous advantage but i dont try to convince me that 277 > 292

Not trying to antagonise anyone, i like Corvettes so lets not get into an anti-US cars thing, but its widely acknowledged that Chevy has a good half-decade to make up on Porsche/Ferrari in terms of chassis development, lets look back at the previous few generations of Corvettes ok?. You cant plug that gap in one generation. Besides, Schumacher tweaked the 360's suspension and while it makes for a tricky to handle car at the absolute limit it will destroy almost anything in the right hands, Z06 included

[BlOOe46]

ok, so u are looking at bhp/ton, and i am looking at lbs/bhp . . . i agree with u there, that the 360 has the slight advantage

but when talking about power, let us also take into note the respective powerbands of each car . . . modena makes its peak hp at 8500 . . . vette, with its less "advanced" chevy small block makes a shitload of torque throughout the powerband, and makes its peak 405bhp at 6000 . . . so r u telling me that when the two cars come into a turn together, the ferrari will fend off the vette?

take lateral acceleration into consideration, and the fact that both of these cars are RWD, the vette will have the advantage going into the turn because it will have a more usable powerband . . . again, the fact that the z06 is RWD is really helping my cause here, because there is no denying the fact that if u are comparing two RWD cars turning capability, and one is within its powerband more then the other when a turn is coming up, there will be no question who comes out in first

if the z06 has a competent driver, goes wide outside before upcoming turns to defeat any understeer, and stays within its torquey RPM range to ensure power all the time . . .

well, think what u like, but i think the z06 would win in this duel . . . just because the modena has a slightly better power:weight, i still dont think thats cause for celebration . . . the fact is, the vette is able to make more use of its power, and has gobs more torque downlow, and all throughout its power range to supplement situations like coming off turns, or coming onto a straight

btw . . . u still havent really cited any examples of how the zo6's chassis is, by ur estimate, half a decade off

[crayzayjay]

Bhp/ton and lbs/bhp really measure the same thing.
I didnt say the 360 is quicker than the Z06 because of its higher power to weight ratio. Thats simply one factor. The other is the superior handling. By the way, lateral acceleration is one thing, handling is quite another. As for why i say Corvettes are behind in terms of chassis technology, Id love to say ive driven every Corvette over the last 3 decades but the simple fact is i havent, so i wont even pretend to have done so. But lets face the facts. American muscle-cars, such as the 'vette, were designed to go fast, primarily in a straight line, as that does suit american roads. So theyre perfectly suited to your roads. Roads in Europe are not quite the same, which leads to the manufacturers placing certain attributes ahead of others when designing their cars. A shedload of torque is not as useful as a nimble, agile chassis in the pursuit of speed, and consequently Porsche and Ferrari have represented the cutting edge of chassis design and technology far before the Z06 improved the Corvette's dynamics. Have Chevy made a car as great, or that handles as majestically as an F40, or 959? And that was 15 years ago. Since then we've had F355, Modena, 993TT, and GT3, a race car for the road; the Z06 wont get near the Gt3 and the latter 'only' has 360bhp. Why? Its chassis. Why did the GT3 hold the production car record for the Old Nurburgring despite 'only' having 360bhp? Because Porsche and Ferrari have been developing their cars at the 'Ring for decades, and believe me the 'Ring is the greatest challenge a road car and driver can ever face. Any self-respecting, or honest car expert who's had the chance to drive cars from both sides of the pond would confirm the European's superiority in chassis development. I've never read an article that puts a Corvette's handling ahead of a comparable Porsche's or Ferrari's, and that does include American magazines. Simple as that.

if the z06 has a competent driver, goes wide outside before upcoming turns to defeat any understeer, and stays within its torquey RPM range to ensure power all the time

[flylwsi]

i'm not going to say it's fair or anything, but who won their class at le mans?

not the ferrari...

people are still confusing the c5 and zo6. the zo6 is nothing like a c5 in regards to power and handling...


and let's talk about repair bills...

what's the 30k mi. svc. cost for a ferrari?

how about for a zo6?

and i'm not trying to use that as a basis for this, b/c each owner will more than be able to afford it...

but i don't really think the two cars are as far apart as everyone wants to make them look...

[crayzayjay]

Who won Le Mans is irrelevant

Costs are not an issue, only ability

[Deakins]

Originally posted by flylwsi
i'm not going to say it's fair or anything, but who won their class at le mans?

The Prodrive 550 was faster than the C5R, well, untill it caught on fire that is