2003 Lesabre Ltd high speed vibration

[wjshipe]

2003 Buick Lesabre Ltd w/ 93K miles. Smooth as glass ride up to 65 mph, then progressively increasing "vibration" to 75 mph and doesn't get any worse at higher speeds.

"Vibration" feels almost like an out of balance wheel in that the front end shakes, but not much or to the point you can't continue driving at speed. The steering wheel does not oscillate left-right-left. I'm a decent backyard mechanic, so from my experience the vibration feels something like a weight fell of the flywheel. There's no vibration in the brake pedal when braking so the rotors should be ok. There's no looseness in the steering wheel meaning it's a tight feel when turning the steering wheel left-right-left.

The wheels have been balanced 3 times (high speed balanced once). 4 new Goodyear Assurance ComfortTred tires installed by Goodyear.

Have owned the car since 15K miles - no accidents. Problem began gradually about 15K miles ago.

I'm a very careful backyard mechanic. I was thinking about lifting the front-end (very safely) and running the wheels at 70 mph to carefully look for obvious signs. Second option is to replace the struts. The only other option I can think of is take it to a dealer and open my wallet which I really prefer not doing just yet.

Any recommendation would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[HotZ28]

I am sure by now, you have moved the tires from side to side and front to rear, to see if the vibration moves with the tire/wheel. Click Here for a prior discussion on this subject!

[Blue Bowtie]

There is probably no need to spin them that fast. Any warpage, misalignment, or bent members should be apparent at lower speeds . You might also want to observe the tires themselves, since carcass construction can impart an out of round condition even if the wheel is straight, true, and the beads are parallel.
Move the front tires to the rear, and retest.

Relying on struts to dampen out of round or imbalance is a sure way to destroy a new set of struts in short order. They are not intended for that.

Another factor is rear wheel alignment, which can impart forces through the entire car, not just the rear.

[BNaylor]

With 93K miles most likely time to replace the struts if they are the original.

I recall the condition described may be addressed by various GM TSBs and appears to be a problem with the last generation LeSabre and even other GM cars. Corrective procedures are typically common sense and standard wheel/suspension troubleshooting which includes what has been suggested by others. One such example:

Date: 02/01/2004
Component Name: 020000 SUSPENSION
NHTSA #: 000310007E
SUMMARY: SHAKE/VIBRATION IN STEERING WHEEL, FLOOR, SEAT AT HIGHWAY SPEEDS ON SMOOTH ROADS. *TT UPDATE. *TT

And welcome to AF.

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

With 93K miles most likely time to replace the struts if they are the original.

And welcome to AF.

Not to question your wealth of knowledge, however my wife's 2000 has over 160,000 miles with the original struts. Rides beautifully, like it is on glass

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by polarzak

Not to question your wealth of knowledge, however my wife's 2000 has over 160,000 miles with the original struts. Rides beautifully, like it is on glass

It was just my two cents worth.

160K miles? Maybe consider getting new struts and it will probably ride and handle much better. The problem with worn or high mileage struts is you get used to them. I don't care what anyone says in contradiction but the initial wear starts as early as 70K miles.

[yogi_123rd]

I think you overlooked the problem: It may indeed be with the rotors

I had this same issue. Wheel vibration at 60-70 mph, but none at moderate speeds. Drove me nuts. Replaced the rotors and it went away.

The modern day brake pads are made semi-metalic. They are more abrasive than the old style pads. They cause very minor wear on the soft steel of the rotor surface. Even though the rotors look even, they should be resurfaced after changing pads. You don't brake evenly, you brake in spurts so the rotor face isn't true even after a while.

[happydog500]

Originally Posted by polarzak

Not to question your wealth of knowledge, however my wife's 2000 has over 160,000 miles with the original struts. Rides beautifully, like it is on glass

Sorry, your wifes car has nothing to do with what's wrong with your car, or when you should replace a part.

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

It was just my two cents worth.

160K miles? Maybe consider getting new struts and it will probably ride and handle much better. The problem with worn or high mileage struts is you get used to them. I don't care what anyone says in contradiction but the initial wear starts as early as 70K miles.

You are probably correct, however, we like the ride (compared to my Lucerne which has square wheels) so until it begins to bounce for five minutes after hitting a bump, we will keep the struts for now.
Yes, 160K miles. Our LeSabre has been so good, it is all original except for tires, brakes,plugs and wires. (normal maintenance) The transmission has been flushed once, one new front hub, and regular oil changes. Beautiful car!!!

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by happydog500

Sorry, your wifes car has nothing to do with what's wrong with your car, or when you should replace a part.

I had to read this several times to try and determine what your point was. Either you are trying to be funny (ha ha) or I am being chastised in some way. Maybe I should have another coffee, or something stronger, and revisit this post later.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by polarzak

I had to read this several times to try and determine what your point was. Either you are trying to be funny (ha ha) or I am being chastised in some way. Maybe I should have another coffee, or something stronger, and revisit this post later.

From what I see and I hope the thread doesn't get derailed is there are a lot of variables when it comes to suspension and tire/wheel issues so it is hard to say who is right or wrong or what solution will work. Although your input is nice to know there are many variables when it comes to the issue the OP is having. It may or may not be relevant. Good annecdotal info but it is quite obvious the OP has some issue otherwise this thread would not exist. Also, GM TSBs support there is some issue although the solutions or fixes vary. We don't even know what suspension option the OP has. For example soft ride RPO code FE1 or firm ride & handling RPO code F41. On the F41 option/package the struts are part of a tuned GT type suspension system which includes the struts, strut coils and other components.

And everyone is free to weigh-in as long as we play nice and the recommended solution or two cents worth appears to be reasonable.

[polarzak]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

From what I see and I hope the thread doesn't get derailed
And everyone is free to weigh-in as long as we play nice and the recommended solution or two cents worth appears to be reasonable.

Hi BN... I agree and wasn't trying to derail this thread, but simply offering my experience with our high mileage 2000 LeSabre and the original struts. Your
"two cents" reply to my post was welcomed and informative.

However, happydogs post make no sense. He says, "Sorry, your wifes car has nothing to do with what's wrong with your car, or when you should replace a part".

I don't HAVE anything wrong with my car.

Perhaps he was trying to say, that my experience with my wife's car, has nothing to do with wjshipe's (the original poster) problem, and that my experience with my wife's car should not dictate when wjshipe should replace parts. If that is what happydog500 is try to express, I can agree with him. However, I would suggest grammar lessons be considered.

Sorry wjshipe for this deviation. I hope you get your problem solved.
PZ

[imidazol97]

Originally Posted by wjshipe

2003 Buick Lesabre Ltd w/ 93K miles.
The wheels have been balanced 3 times (high speed balanced once). 4 new Goodyear Assurance ComfortTred tires installed by Goodyear.
Have owned the car since 15K miles - no accidents. Problem began gradually about 15K miles ago.
.

I'd like to put in my 3 Cent's worth. The tires sound like recent additions. Did you have this out-of-balance feeling before those tires?

One factor is the wheels and tires need to be roadforce balanced wth a Hunter 9700 balancer. This will show up any unevenness in how the tire crush under the weight of the car. This was a problem with the Symmetry Michelins on my 03. Michelins are the best as far as being round and actually rolling round.

The suggestion of moving the tires to see if the feeling of being off balance moves with the wheels is good. But I'd find a Hunter 9700 Roadforce balancer with a knowledgeable operator.

http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

is the page to let you find a list of the stores and dealers nearby with a Hunter 9700. A Buick dealer may be more in tune to troubleshooting the wheels and new tires. It may be worth any extra cost.

Next is the possiblity of a slight misalignment. The service manager at my Buick dealer started life as an alignment guy. So under warranty when he was checking the minor imbalance I felt with vibration sensors, he also checked wheel alignment. When I told him I felt it more on a new I65 section going up a slight hill where the motor was pulling on the front wheels and didn't feel it at the same speed on the down slope on the same pavement he decided to check. He found instead of the front toe being slightly off, the rears were toed-in slightly. He said everything needs to be right at optimum. Many stores say if it's within the range for the specs it doesn't need to be aligned; but that's not true.

Fixed mine.

Now I have new Harmony tires by Michelin on the car and the balancing from the tire store spin balancer seems to be good enough to preventing any tire unevenness from causing vibration. The car also has 50K more miles on it.

[wjshipe]

Thanks to everyone who posted and appreciate the humor. In response to the questions:
- the problem has not changed with tire rotation
- there was no wear indication on the previous set of tires

Weekend game plan:
- raise the front, spin the tires at 30 mph, eyeball any wobble, bent rim, out of round tire, straight and true beads
- swap front/back wheels and redo above
- if the above doesn't find anything, there are about 10 Hunter 9700's nearby of which one is at the Buick dealer

Eventually:
- replace pads and rotors (note: I usually replace, not turn, the rotors when replacing pads, just don't have the time to wait around for the shop to turn them). Not that I want to deviate into another thread, but would like to know an excellent brand for brake pads and rotors.
- give in and go to the dealer

Again, thanks to everyone for their 1, 2 and 3 cents. I'll let you know how this turns out as I go.

[xs03mich]

Just a thought, could you have a tie rod end starting to go? I know if you road force balance the tires that should eliminate a tire or wheel problem.