Hell, and eternam damnation is one helluva party.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by GForce957

So do you believe that all the great jewish leaders in the old testament (noah, david, solomon, moses, etc) are going to hell? Yes Jesus hadn't been born yet but if thats the one qualification then I guess someone should have sent them a memo.

Gandhi just has no excuse, he knew all about Jesus...

Good point.

The Prophets are already promised Heaven before there death. As of myself according to my belief, Allah (swt) or God in english already promised the believers Heaven as long as we worship God alone and associate no partners with him. Just believing in Jesus (as) alone doesn't make any sense. Which leads to my next post...

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

You're all wrong.
Lifes aim is to achieve ultimate enlightenment and reach paradise.

It isn't as simple as believing in something to get into heaven.
It requires more work than that.

I agree with that 100%. It makes much better sense than just believing someone "died" on the cross for your sins. You have to work at it to be good and to be obedient right? Just like whatever we do in our daily lives. At your job you work hard just to get a promotion, at school you work hard just to graduate and end up with a dream career. You basically trying to work hard to reward yourself. So the ultimate goal is the afterlife and let God reward those who are good and obedient and especially those who are patient.



By the way, Shaytan or Satan is the master of deceivers.

[drunken monkey]

what I mean is, doesn't it actually mean more that a person is good without the burden of a religion telling you to be good?

On that tangent of satan.
How does Islam view him?

I've read a few books on the character of satan and the thing that strikes me, as I've pointed out elsewhere, is that ultimately, he too is a servant of God in that it is his duty to deceive. There is also some confusion as to the whether or not Satan is the same as Lucifer as according to so,me traditions, satan is not an angel where as Lucifer was. Then somewhere along the lines and with some cross referencing of similarities in mythologies, he can also be equated to Azazel/Azrael and also Samael.

If we imagine God to be an all powerful being and that his archangels are just as mighty in their embodiments, why is not possible that in the same instance, Satan is the beast that Gabriel (or was another of the archangels; Michael?) slays as well as being the God's angel of death/deception/temptation?

One more thing; would I be right is saying that the serpent in the garden of eden was not satan seeing as the serpent was stated as being "just" another of gods creatures?
i.e not an angel or a spririt.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

what I mean is, doesn't it actually mean more that a person is good without the burden of a religion telling you to be good?

When you're a kid, who's the ones who teaches u whats right and whats wrong? Who was responsible for them to steer you in in the right direction? Do you see my point?

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

On that tangent of satan.
How does Islam view him?

He's made of smoke and fire. He's more of a Jinn and definitely not an angel.

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

If we imagine God to be an all powerful being and that his archangels are just as mighty in their embodiments, why is not possible that in the same instance, Satan is the beast that Gabriel (or was another of the archangels; Michael?) slays as well as being the God's angel of death/deception/temptation?

Because Europeans loves fairy tales so much, they create stories in the Bible to make it more interesting. Both had there part to do and there's no reason why an angel would have to battle it out with the evil forces. Gabriel (as) had his responsibilites and thats to deliver the message to the chosen ones. Satan's responsibilities is to lead ppl on to thinking that whats bad is good and whats good is bad.

[-Davo]

Originally Posted by GForce957

So do you believe that all the great jewish leaders in the old testament (noah, david, solomon, moses, etc) are going to hell? .

they're all party animals, moses led the biggest, longest party in history

noah had a crankin rave party with all his fury hommies and Davo had the cash for the drugs

God has the peace to worry about he dun want that party crap in heaven so Satan is letting us party free of charge aaalll night.

[GForce957]

Originally Posted by -Davo

they're all party animals, moses led the biggest, longest party in history

noah had a crankin rave party with all his fury hommies and Davo had the cash for the drugs

God has the peace to worry about he dun want that party crap in heaven so Satan is letting us party free of charge aaalll night.

haha, I was actually waiting on the opinions of the super christian guys

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

He's made of smoke and fire. He's more of a Jinn and definitely not an angel.

So you would say he is not the same as the Lucifer who wouldn't bow down to Adam as per the Persian(?) story? Or is that they are the same and that Lucifer wasn't an angel?

How does Azazel fit into it then?

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

So you would say he is not the same as the Lucifer who wouldn't bow down to Adam as per the Persian(?) story? Or is that they are the same and that Lucifer wasn't an angel?

How does Azazel fit into it then?

No. Totally different. The story never existed in Islam to the best of my knowledge. Adam is a human being. Our father of mankind. Satan is a Jinn. There's believing Jinns and the disbelieving Jinns which are demons or Satan.



About Azazel, does not fit into Islamic history. It's more of Jewish/Christian tale.

You can also read a little bit more of Satan's doings here by Sheikh Yusef Estes (very funny guy by the way)

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/shaytan.htm