Japan vs American muscle

[76_cobra]

'75 chev pick up with a 400 in it

[-The Stig-]

hmmm interesting... thought only the Blazers came with the AWD... learn something new each day.

[TatII]

76_cobra i've posted up a race about how i beat a mustang gt on the highway because i out handled it. heheh i knew back then that i would have stood no chance in the straight. so i had to take him in the sweeps, and yeah krnxracer i think your car is damn fast for a gs-r. 14.8 is no slouch either, but i doubt that i will ever drive that far to cali. so sorry krnxracer and redneck. hehe we can always imagine though.

[KrNxRaCer00]

Originally posted by RedNeck383
If you're ever in SoCal... lemme know... i'd love to run a GSR..... although I dont think it'd be fair... but it'd be worth posting!!

u talkin bout the nova? hahahha, cuz that'd jus be a WHOOPIN, but i'd take it. i MIGHT go down there if the SAR's doesn't die down in asia, an i don't end up goin to Vietnam. my buddy's an i are gonna take a road trip somewhere, an i wanna get away from wa.

Originally posted by TatIIyeah krnxracer i think your car is damn fast for a gs-r. 14.8 is no slouch either, but i doubt that i will ever drive that far to cali. so sorry krnxracer and redneck. hehe we can always imagine though.

party pooper .

j/k, u have all ur stuff almost done? u gotta let us know wut u run w/ that...im startin to become more interested in the nissans than i was before. thx for the props BTW Tat.

back ON TOPIC...yes, awd SUCKS from a roll because of the power loss, but from a stop, i think its still great for drag racing. yes when u get TONS of power, RWD is prolly better, but its still awesome to have. the AWD DSM's are BEASTS when done correctly...same with the WRX an the new EVO's. but to say that the parts will break...big deal? how many guys u know w/ RWD cars taht are pushing huge numbers that don't snap something or blow something out? racing is hard on cars...simple as that.

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

a 600hp twin turbo 20B (3 Rotor) engined Trueno GT Apex is the best option

Everything else is too heavy

[SR20DETpower]

Originally posted by Donham




I understand those Japanese cars just plan handl;e better than those old muscle cars... I admit in a road race, we'd be killed, but nobody road races on the street anymore, maybe 1 in 100,000 people roadrace on the street to what people dragrace..

I'm not saying drag racing is safe esp on the street, but road racing around corners on the street is for TV... I can be drag racing and fly over a spilled antifreeze spot fly over a oil spot on the road at 125 mph at the end of a 1/4 mile but if your raod racing someone, and your going around a corner and hit a oil spot, a antifreeze spot, your off in the trees, if you even hit a small patch of sand.. your done at just say 50 mph...
nobody cares about handling, it's all about STRAIT line...

I can corner in my old heavyweight car just as good as you cause I'm only goingto be going 15-20 mph around a charp corner



I will admit too much low end will break your tires away, but whne you shift up, more torque is needed for those higher gears..

I will admit those AWD cars can move sometimes if built right, and in the winter I have seen those little Talon AWd's blow through like 2 ft of snow like 4Wd's... and keep going...

scott

LMFAO take a 240sx and loose traction, you will be surprised how well it copes. If you know what to do its an impressive machine

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by Donham


What makes you think those American car can't put dowe the power, with a good set of chater slicks (street legal slicks with groves) I've seen car like this pull the front weels on a good road...

I assumed that we were talking about everyday, roadgoing cars.

If you are referring to just simply racing in straight-line, quarter-mile style, then yes, the high-displacement motors should be the leaders in that. Hell, they've got over 60-70 years of development, versus low-displacement imports that have about a dozen.

Quarter-mile racing, though quite prevalent nowadays, is but one-tenth of what driving is all about. you noticed I said "straight-line, quarter-mile style". Do you think your vaunted musclecars will stand a chance against Japanese "wangan" (highway) racers? Do you think they'll stand a chance against their top-speed racing? Against standing-mile racing? The newer musclecars maybe, but not your favored muscle of yesteryears.

I'm not even mentioning road-racing, since you seem pretty realistic about that.

On freeway race would you rather race with:

A) an 800+HP Toyota Supra or
b) a 1,000+HP 69 Camaro?

Think of how your cheater slicks would affect this situation...

Originally posted by Donham

What good is AWD going to do when a car pulls hard enoguh (like a good high torque V8 can) the rear weels get most of the weight transfer.... the front weels are either off the ground of have very very little traction (almost off ground)...
What good is AWD going to do?

Again, talking about everyday cars. AWD will always be better in everday driving conditions than any 2WD system.

RWD has its advantages.

FWD has it's advantages.

AWD has both systems' advantages.

Have you ever seen a 1stGen Eclipse/Talon cut a 1.8 or less 60-ft on bona-fide Pep-Boys specials? Try that with a high-HP same year (90'-94')Camaro.

Originally posted by Donham

Also I'm not going to be racing in the Rain... AWD owners I hope you do not either for both our sakes..

AND Again, talking about everyday driving.

Not too many people in this board can afford to support a weekend-only car. I repeat: "street-legal does not equal daily-driven". I was talking about high-HP and liveability

Now, let's say you have to go to the bathroom VERY badly...you need teepee. You're out. It's raining. You only have a choice between:

A) a 750+HP 440 Hemi-Charger or
B) a 1,200+HP Toyota Supra

Let logic, not bias, be your guide in this...
(not even mentioning the AWD Skyline, since it won't be fair in a rainy-day comparo)

Originally posted by Donham

I understand those Japanese cars just plan handl;e better than those old muscle cars... I admit in a road race, we'd be killed, but nobody road races on the street anymore, maybe 1 in 100,000 people roadrace on the street to what people dragrace..

Refer to my above posts for this one.

Originally posted by Donham

I'm not saying drag racing is safe esp on the street, but road racing around corners on the street is for TV... I can be drag racing and fly over a spilled antifreeze spot fly over a oil spot on the road at 125 mph at the end of a 1/4 mile but if your raod racing someone, and your going around a corner and hit a oil spot, a antifreeze spot, your off in the trees, if you even hit a small patch of sand.. your done at just say 50 mph...
nobody cares about handling, it's all about STRAIT line...

Refer to your post below for this one.

Originally posted by Donham

I can corner in my old heavyweight car just as good as you cause I'm only goingto be going 15-20 mph around a charp corner

I would slit my throat if that is what I'd have to do everyday just to be able to drive my car. My old boss' van can corner better than that...oh BTW, the van was a Honda Odyssey.

Originally posted by Donham

I will admit too much low end will break your tires away, but whne you shift up, more torque is needed for those higher gears..

Actually, no. Better gearing is more necessary for the higher gears. Don't forget, gearing multiplies torque.

Originally posted by Donham

I will admit those AWD cars can move sometimes if built right, and in the winter I have seen those little Talon AWd's blow through like 2 ft of snow like 4Wd's... and keep going...

scott

If AWD grips that much on snow...how do you think it'll do on asphalt?

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

i'm gonna forgive the ability not to write straight properlly but i actually disagree with straight line

Its boring i want to race around a track and drift n stuff
(notice how the drift scene is getting bigger) it's not all about going fast in a straight line ya know.:o

[Neutrino]

actully carnutt there is one muscle car thast would do awsome even in wangan races, the superbird could reach over 200mph

[Self]

Yes and actually, if I remember right, the quickest car on the Wangan right now is a Corvette. Granted it is a NEW Corvette, but still...Musclecars are musclecars

[SR20DETpower]

I don't think when your in a street racing forum, that specs and back up statements shouldn't be made on production stock numbers....

who races a car that doesn't have any mods on it, from intake filter to a new muffler......?

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by Neutrino
actully carnutt there is one muscle car thast would do awsome even in wangan races, the superbird could reach over 200mph

True, but I wouldn't trust something that heavy zipping through highway lanes at those speeds.

It's easy to make a car go forward faster and faster, but being able to make it handle the tolerances at those speeds is another.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally posted by Self
Yes and actually, if I remember right, the quickest car on the Wangan right now is a Corvette. Granted it is a NEW Corvette, but still...Musclecars are musclecars

Not sure about that, but in the scheme of all things V8 and American, the Corvette motor is considered small-displacement (when you can get 10Liter V8s and stuff) and higher revving than others...relating to what I said about a tall powerband helping you control your car.

[Neutrino]

Originally posted by carrrnuttt


True, but I wouldn't trust something that heavy zipping through highway lanes at those speeds.

It's easy to make a car go forward faster and faster, but being able to make it handle the tolerances at those speeds is another.

i just wanted to show how revolutionary that old technology was...



and i cannot belive you guys compare cars from 30 years ago with brand new cars and say that they handle worse.....well no duh....its 30 years of technological advancement...a proper comprison would be with the today's modern musche cars like the viper or the Z06

i just wanted to give the super bird as an example of how good that old engineering was....it was a very aerodinamic car....and they did all that without the help of today's cad machines computerised wind tunels etc....

[2strokebloke]

Pre-supposing you already own the car you're going to work on and don't have to pay for it, $1000 seems reasonable, but otherwise most American cars are way overpriced (unless you fancy getting a Pacer...)
My Yugo is going to not even reach $1000 for right now (including the cost of the car itself!) and that also includes the engine swap! (but find a good chevette and you just might be able to keep it below $1000)
Running in the twelves? At the event I was at just two days only a couple cars both foreign or domestic got into the twelves, and the majority of the cars there were American made (and the ones that did get into the 12 marks looked to be extensively modified) maybe it was bad driving, maybe it's just the thin air we have up here, but I'm not buying the whole 11's for under $4000 story.

Originally posted by Donham



You have got to be kidding, there are many American muscle cars that run 1 with only $3000-400 mods or less...
An example, you can build a 500 hp 440 mopar for around $1000,if you pocket port your own heads... EASY job..
say you have a 3500 lb low option (low weight) 68 Road Runner, 500 hp with the right gear and trction (tires) run 11's,...

So maybe The Road runner is too expensive now, you canso the exact same thing with a cheap Satlite, Belvedare, Cornet (same car much cheaper to buy)

so maybe you might have to spend maybe up to $4000-5000 if you have to buy the car and have to go to a junkyard and buy a 67-71 440 from a old New yorker...

Spend another $600 on a good Nitrus setup and fuel lines/pump...
Run 10's for $5000-6000...

So you spent $30,000 to get a lawnmower engine to run 11's..

let me tell you something there are PURE 1 billion % stock American 1960's 70's muscle cars that run 12's PURE stock...
with just new sticky tires and a cam change ipeople have run 11's.. I'm nottalking hemi's, low cost 440'..
Buicks, Chevies etc can do the same...
I'm not being to mopar...

heck, a Cheap 1970-74 Chevy Nova that has a small block V8 engine weighs like 3000 lbs... a 450 hp 350-383 costs $4000 to build (and thats with all internals)...
believe me it's gonna run (if setup right) 11's EASY...

I'm not hear to pick on your car, but if you think it takes over $20,000 to make a American muscle car to run 11's, I just say please go here
http://www.moparstyle.net/

go to the forums, in the racing section and tell them what you told me...

have a good one

scott