Supercar Allstars...

[jcsaleen]

Which do you think is worth of the title best supercar and why?

Here's the list ~

Bugatti Veyron
Bugatti Eb110
Callaway C12
Chrysler ME Four tweleve
Dauer 962 Le man
Edonis
Pagani Zonda C-12 7.3 S
Pagani Zonda C-12 F
Ferrari FXX
Ferrari Enzo
Ferrari 575 Evo
Ferrari F50
Ferrari F40
Ferrari F40 LM
Ford GT40
Ford GT
Fioravanti F100
Jaguar XJ220
Jaguar XJ220 TWR
Koenigsegg CCR
Koenigsegg CCX
Lamborghini Diablo LM
Lamborghini Diablo S/C
Lamborghini LP460
Lotec Sirus
Lotus GT1
Maserati MC12
Maserati MC12 Corsa
McLaren F1
McLaren F1 HDF
McLaren LM
Mercedes Clk-GTR
Mercedes Clk-GTR S.S
Mercedes Clk-DTM Amg
Mercedes SLR
Mosler MT900 Photon S
Porsche GT1
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche 959
Saleen S7 04+ N/a
Saleen S7 Competition
Saleen S7 Twin Turbo Stage I 750hp
Saleen S7 Twin Turbo Stage II 1000hp
SCC Aero S/C 8T
Ultima 640 GTR
Vector W8
Vector W12

Take your vote...

[munna]

Callaway corrvette 0-100 in 1.9 seconds faster than a fighter jet on the ground

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by munna

Callaway corrvette 0-100 in 1.9 seconds faster than a fighter jet on the ground

Bah, only one of them was ever made and it was a single purpose vehicle.

In my opinion, the McLaren F1 (and all of its variants) is the best supercar ever made.

Its hard to decide where to start explaining why the McLaren F1 is the king of all supercars, but I think I will start with some of Gordon Murray's philosophy on supercars. According to Murray, there are 2 goals a supercar can fulfill. The first is to be the greatest of Grand Tourers. A supercar that gives you everything you could want in a road car. They need to look great, be comfortable, and feasibly usable in a day to day scenario. Examples of this would be the McLaren-Mercedes SLR, the Bugatti EB110 and Veyron (perhaps), and the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti and 575m Maranello. These cars are expensive, luxurious, and fast, but not quite as fast as the second category- supercars designed to dominate at the track. These cars are generally uncomfortable, and very purpose built for track use. Supposedly these will be the fastest cars you will ever see on the road. An important thing to remember about these cars is that they are not just straight line monsters, but handle well as well. These pure track cars include the 962LM, Ferrari FXX, the Saleen S7s (to a lesser degree), and others.

The best of supercars can do both of these things and do them very well. These are your Porsche Carrera GTs, Ferrari Enzos, Pagani Zondas, and Ford GTs. I think that these are the best because most of the supercars that try to specialize in one thing tend not to be the best at that one thing. Take the Mercedes SLR for example. It is a fine Grand Tourer, but is it a better road car then say... a S55 AMG, a Rolls Royce Phantom, or a Maserati Quattroporte? What about the Saleen S7 on the other end, would you really want to risk putting it around a track against an Ariel Atom? Would you want to risk putting a $800,000 FXX against the $250,000 Coparo/Freestream T1 once that comes out? My point is that supercars tend not to be the best when it comes to being single purpose vehicles.

What Murray wanted to do with his McLaren F1 was to take the two goals of being rediculously fast and reasonably usable and squeeze them into one car. The trick was to avoid compromising either goal in favor of the other. This was solved by completely disregarding price and making the best vehicle possible. The problem with supercars made by major manufacturers is that there is usually an alterior motive behind the creation of a car. With Mercedes and Porsche, cars are usually designed to bring in a profit, VAG created the Veyron to advertise future money making Bugattis and to brag about 1,000hp and 250mph (both completely arbitrary), and with Ferrari the cars are made to pay for a very successful F1 team. I have tons of respect for these cars, especially the Porsches and Ferraris, but in every one of their cars they compromise somewhere to keep prices down, to keep a certain styling, or to set new (arbitrary) records. The reason the McLaren is the greatest of all supercars is that they didn't compromise anywhere except in the bank in order to create the greatest car they could. They don't just do one thing incredibly well (like the Callaway or the Veyron), but they manage to do everything. To me, that is what a supercar is all about, a single car that manages to do everything you could possibly want from a car and the McLaren F1 personifies this.

The F1 wasn't designed to break speed records, but did anyways. It wasn't origionally intended to win LeMans, but did anyways.

Many people will say, "well what about the Veyron," but the fact is that VAG completely bungled a chance to create the car that really would have replaced the McLaren as the greatest supercar ever. Silly requirements from on executives forced engineers to make the car have 1,000hp, go 250mph, and have that hunkered down beetle shape. As a result they made a car that weighs way too much, doesn't have a trunk, and probably won't beat many cheaper supercars around a track. They should have told their engineers, "make the best car you can," not "make a car to fit these specs so it will appeal to people that don't know better."

So...
Best Supercar Ever- McLaren F1 (preferably the LM)
Other ones I like above the others are the Zonda F, Enzo, Carrera GT, and Ford GT.

[drunken monkey]

....and with that post you instantly make all others that follow totally redundant.

[jcsaleen]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

Its hard to decide where to start explaining why the McLaren F1 is the king of all supercars, but I think I will start with some of Gordon Murray's philosophy on supercars. According to Murray, there are 2 goals a supercar can fulfill. The first is to be the greatest of Grand Tourers. A supercar that gives you everything you could want in a road car. They need to look great, be comfortable, and feasibly usable in a day to day scenario. Examples of this would be the McLaren-Mercedes SLR, the Bugatti EB110 and Veyron (perhaps), and the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti and 575m Maranello.

I heard the Slr was a failed attempt for the most part lol.

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

These pure track cars include the 962LM, Ferrari FXX, the Saleen S7s (to a lesser degree), and others.

I have to agree on that, Look at the S7's passenger side where your "Feet & legs are supposed to go"...

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

The best of supercars can do both of these things and do them very well. These are your Porsche Carrera GTs, Ferrari Enzos, Pagani Zondas, and Ford GTs.

Yes, But when you buy a supercar how much are you on the street with it? There are tons of owners that do mostly track. If you want drivability and you have the extra 10k buy a honda as a grocer getter.

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

What Murray wanted to do with his McLaren F1 was to take the two goals of being rediculously fast and reasonably usable and squeeze them into one car.

Murray also pulled off because of two things as far as design. The transmission layout and the single seat arrangement gave the F1 that edge as far as room an drivability.

[NISSANSPDR]

Ferrari for the F40. Thank you for making my dream car.

And I'll say it again...screw the McLaren F1.

[DinanM3_S2]

Originally Posted by jcsaleen

I heard the Slr was a failed attempt for the most part lol.

The SLR wasn't really a failure, it was just too much of a Mercedes and not enough of a McLaren. They look great in person, and it is probably one of the most luxurious cars that fall into the supercar territory. If you watch the Top Gear episode where they race it against a boat (another win for Clarkson) you'll get a better understanding of what the car is good at. For me the biggest problem with the SLR is its competition. First of all, the SL65 AMG and the CL65 AMG arn't that far off in performance and luxury for a hell of a lot less. Second, the new Ferrari 599GTB Fiorano promises to be just as good of a road car as the SLR is, with just as much power, less weight, and a better badge. I think its hard for a more mainstream company like Mercedes-Benz, BMW, or Audi to make supercars. Call it badge snobbery, but Ferrari is way cooler to say then Mercedes.

Originally Posted by jcsaleen

I have to agree on that, Look at the S7's passenger side where your "Feet & legs are supposed to go"...

It definitely is a track car made for the road, but at least it is street legal, more then you can say for the FXX and 962. In the videos I've seen it has seemed too cramped and too loud to be used very well on the road, but none-the-less street use is possible.

Originally Posted by jcsaleen

Yes, But when you buy a supercar how much are you on the street with it? There are tons of owners that do mostly track. If you want drivability and you have the extra 10k buy a honda as a grocer getter.

I don't know, maybe I wouldn't drive them day to day, but I would like to road trip with a supercar like Clarkson or the guys that do the Gumball and Cannonball runs. Whats the point of a road car if you can't bring it on the street without it driving you insane?

Originally Posted by jcsaleen

Murray also pulled off because of two things as far as design. The transmission layout and the single seat arrangement gave the F1 that edge as far as room an drivability.

There were alot of things that went into making the McLaren great. Carbon fiber everything and that BMW V12 helped a bunch too. If I were to limit the greatness of the McLaren to one thing it would be the idea that the engineers were free to do whatever they wanted with the car, disregarding price, styling (which turned out great anyways), and fixed power/acceleration/speed goals.

[blakscorpion21]

im going to have to go with the ferarri fxx. i just read an article about them in a magazine and was very impressed. those things are going to be track monsters.

[drunken monkey]

and that's all it's going to be; a track car.

[NewyorkKopter]

o man, there are alot of cars in that list that I adore. For me the cars at the top are the McLaren F1, Pagani Zonda C12S, Ferrari F40, but in back '92 when I was 5 years old, I was walking in the park and then I saw this car stopped at the stoplight. It was black, really wide, insanely low with a wedge nose, a big wing at the back, pop-up headlights, and made a sound that made me jump. I ran toward it to get a better look, and I went toward the back and the grille read... Diablo. Yup it was a '92 Lamborghini Diablo and to this day no car has taken its place at the top for me. I don't know what it is, but to me its perfect. I love the McLaren for its incredible compromise between comfort and performance, the F40 for its pure pefromance, the Zonda for its exotic appeal, the 962LM for simply being a street legal Group C racer, the 959 for its sophistication, the GT40 for what it did at LeMans, but when I saw the Diablo I was like just like wow... the looks, the noise... lol imagine the guy driving, seeing a 5 year old kid walking with his sister and her friends just stop and drool at the car.

[jcsaleen]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

For me the biggest problem with the SLR is its competition. First of all, the SL65 AMG and the CL65 AMG arn't that far off in performance and luxury for a hell of a lot less.

I actually know exactly what your talking about.... I have a Vid of an Sl65 Vs an Slr in dubai Drag. It was taken by a amera phone but still good none the less. Pm me if you want it.

[blakscorpion21]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

and that's all it's going to be; a track car.

but isnt that what defines a supercar?

[drunken monkey]

did you read DinanM3_S2's post above?

[NewyorkKopter]

supercars aren't racing cars. There's a difference...

[DinanM3_S2]

A supercar, at least a good one, can't only be a track car because most cars that you would consider supercars would be demolished on the track by real track cars. Take the Ariel Atom compared to many supercars for example. You can have a supercharged Ariel Atom for about $50,000. The Atom surely isn't a supercar, yet on the Top Gear track it has lapped faster then the Porsche Carrera GT, McMerc SLR, Koenigsegg CCX (sans wing), Ascari KZ1, Pagani Zonda (not the F), and the Ford GT.

This isn't even the scariest example. I still havn't decided whether or not I consider the Caparo/Freestream T1 to be a supercar or a rediculous track monster since it isn't quite out yet. Should it be considered a track car, absolutly nothing that is attainable by the public will beat it. Supposedly it will be as fast as an LMP1 LeMans race car for $250,000. It will weigh 500kgs, and have a 500hp 2.4l V8 (same as an F1 car), giving it a power to weight ratio that will put any car to shame. It will also pull over 3gs in the corners. All of this will be available for about $250,000, the price of a Ferrari 575m.