VW Passat W8 vs. Rivals- advice for a potential customer

[davidgmills]

Having a 9-5 Aero and a 9-5SE Wagon, I would get a 9-5 Aero wagon. These cars are very fast and very safe and in wagon form are extremely utilitarian and hold vast amounts of stuff. The wagon is better balanced than the sedan, has a better ride, is safer, better executed with a flat floor when the rear seats are folded down, better rear headrests, and only a tad slower and a tad less fuel efficient. The 9-5 wagon is a gem and in Aero form can't be beat.

[edonis]

Alot of these cars are great, but some aren't. No offence to France, but the Vel Satis isn't a good car. Sorry.. See that episode on Top Gear? Proves my point.. And it looks weird The 607 is a special car, huge space inside, but doesn't give me the luxurious feel I would like to have...

I wouldn't go for the Passat. Here (in Norway) its just a mainstream car, and not a prestige car at all, although not often with a W8 The engine is great, though... Seems like every second family has one here (passat, not w8), and although its one of the best middle-class cars on the market, I wouldn't buy one with a W8.. there are more exciting options. Here it costs US$130 000!!

The A6 is a very nice car, and looks absolutely stunning with cool rims and tinted windows and the right colour.. The interior is also very good, so is the quality. Only thing is that I feel it lacks a little personality. A little cold, if you like.. Just a bit boring, but none the less a great car!

I don't really like the 5-series. Really good car to drive, but everyone has it, and the interior look sooo dated! The exterior is a beauty though. No cupholders, though The new one, I don't like.. Its weird, and cold.. oh no!

[edonis]

My pick of the bunch is the Saab 9-5. It's boot is really spacious, whether you take the Sedan or the Estate (wagon)! Swedens largest insurance company rated it to the safest car ever, and if every person would drive a Saab, there would be 40% less death injuries on the road.

Its interior is great as well, and especially the seats. These you can get ventilated, so there comes fresh cold air through the leather seats so you won't sweat. The space behind is also very good, comfort is at top as well, and it isn't any smaller than the A6 or 5-series.

You get ACC (automatic climate control) so that the driver and passengers can get two different temperatures, and the glovebox can be used as a refrigirator, as the temperature is cooled by the aircon to a temp of 3-8 celcius.. The audio system is really good as well, made by Harmann Kardon, only minus is that there is no cd-changer except for in the boot. The 2003 models can get delivered with the new Automatic Sentronic, with F1 shifting at the steering wheel. Although not as quick as an automatic, it's really good for the comfort.

The engine delivers a 350Nm at just 1900rpm, compared to the W8's 370Nm at 2750rpm, alas- the engine delivers alot of power from the beginning of the register, unlike many other cars. The reason is the Turbo. Since the power is delivered through the front wheels, expect a little torque steer, but its not like the Saab 900 Cabrio!

The thing with Saab is that is has personality, and is special. Also, it is very fun to drive. I've read comparison tests Saab/Audi, Saab/Volvo and so on, where the competitors have equal/little better comfort (the comfort in Saab 9-5 isn't bad at all, just maybe not as good as the A6) but the Saab has been the most fun and sporty car to drive. If you just want to be lazy just get a chair..

Saab owners always come back for more, and once you've had a Saab, you won't want another brand. Research prooves that Saab owners are the most satisfied owners, just after Toyota and Honda... Audi owners are at average, Saab at 18% over average.. Also, only 8% of Saab owners have decided that they won't have another Saab next time. This is the highest at the research. (NAF- sort of JD.Powers, which also gave the Saab 9-5 top rating, think it was 2001)

[Stefanel1]

>Edonis : The Vel Satis isn't a good car !!! have you ever driven or at least been a passenger in this car ? I don't think so. The look is very original, and you can dislike, that's another thing. But considering the comfort, inside space and the handling, nothing worth a Vel Satis. And it's luxurious.

"if every person would drive a Saab, there would be 40% less death injuries on the road."
mhhhhh interesting sorry but if every boday had a Vel Satis, there would be less injured or killed people, but it doesn't mean something, sorry. And all these new cars in this category are very safe (at least 4 stars at the EuroNcap tests and even 5 stars for the new E Class and the Vel Satis).

"Its interior is great as well, and especially the seats. These you can get ventilated, so there comes fresh cold air through the leather seats so you won't sweat. The space behind is also very good, comfort is at top as well, and it isn't any smaller than the A6 or 5-series. "
Seats are well indeed, but not really better than in the other cars. Seats ventilated : good point indeed. The space behind is not a reference in a 5 Series ! it's the smaller with the 166 !

"You get ACC (automatic climate control) so that the driver and passengers can get two different temperatures, and the glovebox can be used as a refrigirator, as the temperature is cooled by the aircon to a temp of 3-8 celcius.. The audio system is really good as well, made by Harmann Kardon, only minus is that there is no cd-changer except for in the boot"
AAC with separate control are on almost all these cars, in some you can even controll the air conditionning from behind. Harman & Kardon : good make, as on the other cars (Cabasse, Bose, etc.)

The 9-5 has caracter indeed. More funny than the A6 but I'm not sure compared with a 5 Séries.

Though I have to say that the 9-5 is a very good car, I'm not saying the contrary but the other cars are at least as good. In this category it's more a feeling for a against a car. You'll prefer one make or another but that's rarely objective. The Audi, BMW and Mercedes are more expensive than the Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, Saab, VW and Renault because the three german makes have a very good reputation in this category and we must conceed that the built quality inside is very good.

I'd personnaly get a 166, a 607 or the new 5 Series but that's only my opinion which is not objective

[Deakins]

Originally posted by edonis
The engine delivers a 350Nm at just 1900rpm, compared to the W8's 370Nm at 2750rpm, alas- the engine delivers alot of power from the beginning of the register, unlike many other cars.

Well, that's the 3.0 turbo diesel engine, and just like all other turbo diesel engine, you have more torque at lower rpms.
You can get the Passat with a 2.5 TDi engine, delivering 310nm at 1500rpm. as opposed to the Saab's 350nm at 1800 rpm.

[edonis]

You're correct, I've never even sat foot in a Vel Satis, nor have I actually seen one in real life.. However, I have seen and read reviews on it, and it isn't all that positive. Almost all french cars are comfy, but the handling of the Vel Satis isn't as it should be.. As for the looks, I can see how some might like it, although I seriously don't..

The seats are actually better in Saab than in many other makes, I've noticed.. Many reviewers and testers always refer to the good seats of Saab's and Volvo's..

The thing with the ACC is that it is standard, but in a lot of cars its on the options list..

"The 9-5 has caracter indeed. More funny than the A6 but I'm not sure compared with a 5 Séries" I think the Saab is more fun than the 5-series, although I do admit the 5-series has a better chassis and better dynamics, but the Saab's turbo's are really great since you get the power at low rpm's..

Here the Audi is priced very close to the Saab, only thing is that Audi's get delivered with larger engines so the price can go higher up than of the Saabs.

My father is buying a new car within this year or so, some estate for around $60 000, meaning that the Merc is too pricey.. Some cars he's considering is the A6 Avant 1,8t, Saab 9-5 Vector Estate, BMW 520i Touring and the Volvo V70. I'm hoping for the Saab, after taking a test drive in it last weekend, I seroulsy keep dreaming about it.. The other cars are really good, but its the character and personality of the Saab that I love..

[Jimster]

Well it looks like my dad'll be going for the W8- US$50,000 for the top spec model, The NZ AA-Autocar Car of the Year 2002 award- as well as the confidence inspiring fact that VW NZ have sold 70 already (Good for residuals) is tipping him to the W8 :sun:

[Stefanel1]

An A6 1.8t or a 520i Touring costs USK$40 in France, is it 60k in Sweden ????? !

Sorry but the handling of a Vel Satis is very good. And for the styling, be carefull : the first pics I saw about this car were awfull but when I saw it on the road, I wasn't in love with it but I was less chocked. And I'm going to get accustomed with it

AC optional ? on a Twingo maybe but it's standard on all cars of this category and even on two category below (Mégane, 307, Golf, Leon, 147, Stilo, Civic, etc.).

[edonis]

No, I live in Norway, and it's here it costs Us$60k. Sweden is cheeeaaaap, half the price, almost..

As for the Vel Satis, it was ranked as one of the top 10 ugly cars in CAR magazine (But so was the Enzo, the Cayenne, the 7-series, but also the Multipla and so on) If you read reviews on the Vel Satis, you'll see that its handling isn't as good as its rivals. I've never driven, nor seen one, so I'm just taking WhatCar?, TopGear, and CAR magazine's word for it.

[edonis]

Just take a look at this, I know it's from 2001, but still..

In reverse order:

10. Vauxhall Omega (55%)
9. Peugeot 607 (57%)
8. Renault Vel Satis (62%)
7. BMW 7-Series (67%)
Suprising result - basically it was marked down on being too clever for its own good. Also marked down on Style too.
6. Audi A6 (68%)
5. Saab 9-5 (71%)
4. VW Phaeton (72%)
3. Mercedes E-class (76%)
2. Mercedes S-class (77%)
Suprising again - I thought everyone thought this was the exec car.
1. BMW 5-Series (79%)
No denying I was pleased that the 5-Series won !! and it did last time too:
Men & Motors Top Ten Autos 2001

[edonis]

Crap, 2002! Sorry, my bad!!! Apologies!

[Jimster]

Originally posted by edonis
Just take a look at this, I know it's from 2001, but still..

In reverse order:

10. Vauxhall Omega (55%)
9. Peugeot 607 (57%)
8. Renault Vel Satis (62%)
7. BMW 7-Series (67%)
Suprising result - basically it was marked down on being too clever for its own good. Also marked down on Style too.
6. Audi A6 (68%)
5. Saab 9-5 (71%)
4. VW Phaeton (72%)
3. Mercedes E-class (76%)
2. Mercedes S-class (77%)
Suprising again - I thought everyone thought this was the exec car.
1. BMW 5-Series (79%)
No denying I was pleased that the 5-Series won !! and it did last time too:
Men & Motors Top Ten Autos 2001

Is that a customer satisfaction survey????

[edonis]

Nope.. this is an extract from Men&Motors, where they were to pick their favourite "executive motors".

This is from AutoIndex2003, a customer satisfaction survey on how they are satisfied with their car:

The percent is over or under average.

Over average:

Toyota 40%
Saab 28%
Bmw 27%
Volvo 20%
Honda 20%
Mercedes 18%
Audi 14%
Nissan 10%
Mitsubishi 5%
Mazda 2%
VW 1%

Under average:

Peugot -3%
Skoda -5%
Renault -8%
Citroen -11%
Ford (Eu) -12%
Hyundai -26%
Opel/Vauxhall -27%
Fiat -27%
Chrysler -48% (this is seriously a CRAPPY car)

[edonis]

This is how satisfied they are combined (The satisfaction of the car itself stands for 50%, satisfaction with the dealer and buying-process counts for 25%, as does the satisfaction with the service and repairs)

Over average:

Toyota 38%
Honda 18%
Saab 18%
Mitsubishi 13%
Nissan 10%
Volvo 10%
BMW 8%
Mazda 7%
Mercedes 4%
Peugot 3%
Audi 1%

Under average:

Ford(EU) -1%
Hyundai -4%
Citroen -5%
Renault -11%
Skoda -11%
Opel -12%
VW -13%
Fiat -25%
Chrysler -40% (Again, Chrysler at the bottom.. why does anyone buy this shit?)

[Stefanel1]

>Edonis : if the Enzo is ugly for your "magazine" (as the Vel Satis), I think it's not a so good magazine