Please Post D16A1 Swap Info Here

[cvcc_wagon]

This thread is being created to collect information on the D16A1 swap into a first generation Civic/CRX (D16A1 1.6 16V DOHC PGM-FI 1590 113hp@6250rpm 99tq@5500rpm '86-'89 Integra (USA)) The information given here will be sorted and put into another thread. I will then request that the thread be made Sticky as well as locked to be used as a FAQ on this subject. This thread will not become the FAQ, it is simply gathering information. What I have rite now is:

http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/SCC-ZC-Article
from lxndr

and a site I ran across a while ago
http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/

NEW SITE: great info for those going from carb DX to FI
http://the-compound.com/dylan/crx

Carb ZC into a 4WD 3G Wagon (yes, a stock carb'd ZC)
http://www.effinmotorworks.com/Zeno_Writeup.htm

If anyone has more information or would like to make some suggestions please feel free to post them. To my knowledge this is the most cost effective swap that can be done on the first generation Civic/CRX which is why it is so popular, if you have another swap that you think is on par (ie. cost and work proportional) feel free to post that as well. Pease do not post suggestions on next generation swaps or anything that will not directly mount into a 71 to 87 engine compartment without custom engine mounts, for that is not the point of this FAQ, the point is to provide resource for the the D16A1 or equivalent swap because of its popularity.

Thanks.

[CRXdan]

http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/westech.html
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~tschmidt/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9855/87crx/

[lxndr]

An easy swap that anyone can do to get a little more power out of thier stock Civic/CRX SI is to replace their ECU with an '86-'87 Integra ECU. The Integra ECU will plug right in to the SI wiring without any modifications. The benefit of this swap is that the Integra ECU is programed for performance and you will eliminate the Civic rev limiter. Also, when you decide to put in a D16A1 you will already have the ECU installed (although the D16A1 will run using the stock SI ECU). Be sure to pick up an ECU designed for use with your transmission (manual or automatic).

Note:
Do NOT use an ECU from an '88-'89 Integra as this ECU is designed to be used with a VSS and is therefore not compatible with the SI. The stock SI motor will confuse the '88-'89 Integra ECU causing it to run poorly.

Edit:
THE ECU IS NOT WORTH SWAPPING WITHOUT HAVING OTHER PERFORMANCE MODIFICATIONS!!!

[lxndr]

Check this out for info on brake swapping.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=197243

[cvcc_wagon]

yeah, that'd be a good thing to include as well, the two kind of go together

[lxndr]

Lowering an '84-'87 Civic/CRX (with stock motor and suspension):

The front is really easy, you don't even need to jack up the car if you know where the adjustment nut is! If you only need about an inch, just loosen the height adjustment nut. Doing this brought the height of my '86 CRX from about 24" to 22 and 7/8". Before you take any measurements roll the car back and forth and bounce it to settle the suspension. Measure squarely through the center of the wheel to the lower edge of the wheel well. Make sure that the car is on a flat surface with properly inflated tires and a full gas tank.

I would not recommend going any lower than about an inch at the front without taking out the torsion springs. 1 and 1/8" was as far as I could go and still have enough threads left on the adjustment nut to feel safe.

To lower the car more than an inch at the front you will need to remove the torsion springs. To do this you will need to set the front of the car on jack stands and place a jack under the spindle of the side you are working on. Then remove the metal dust cap at the rear and the rubber cap from the front of the torsion springs. Remove the rear spring clip, then using a heavy hammer and a large heavy punch or heavy round rod (I use a lug wrench with the bent end cut off), pound the torsion bars forward about 3/4" and remove the front spring clip. Then spray the splines with lubricant and pound the springs back untill they fall out. You may need to adjust the height if the jack untill you relieve the tension on the spring.

Next you will need to grind one spline off of the rear of the torsion spring next to the spline key. Grind the spline to the right of the key on the passenger side and to the left of the key for the drivers side then lube up the splines and install them in the reverse order from which you took them out. You may need to adjust the height of the jack in order to get the splines to align. Make sure that they go in one spline off from their stock location.

Tighten the height adjustment nut all the way! Once you get the car on the ground loosen the nut untill you get the desired height.

You can grind 2 or 3 splines if you are truly insane!

No matter how far you lower your car, it is a good idea to have the front end aligned when you are done. If you need a little more camber you can elongate the strut mounting holes toward the inside of the car, and if you need a little more caster you can pull the crossmember forward. Also, swapping in the lower arms from an '86-'89 Integra will give you about 1 degree of negative camber.

You should also consider replacing your struts with something adjustable like Tokico Illuminas, especially if you are planning to go really low.

At the rear you can just cut the springs or use aftermarket springs. You won't even need a spring compressor to remove them. If you go with the cutting method, one coil will usually give you about 1' drop, but do some trial and error before you start cutting too much off your coils since you can't add the coils back on. I've also heard that you can use Civic wagon springs in the back for about 1' drop, but I have not verified this. I have been using Tokico progressive springs. Tokico says that these springs will lower your car between 1"-1.5", but they really only lower it about .5", so I just cut the springs with a cut off wheel until I got the desired ride height. You can also get progressive springs from Eibach and adjustable springs from Ground Control.

You will need to find an adjustable panhard bar if you go any lower than about 1"-1.5" at the rear, or you can cut and weld yours to the appropriate length.

Note:
You can heat the rear springs with a torch and just let the car drop but the car will handle poorly, I wouldn't recommend it!

[CRXdan]

Regarding the D16a1 ECU.
It will not improve power. Many people think its a cheap way to make ur car faster, but that is not true. Heres why;
Your car will run rich and you might have idling problems. The only advantage is the higher rev limit, but it is not worth it. In fact, your car will feel sluggish, and foget about it being smog legal.

Taklen from RPR
"In most other Hondas and many other makes of cars, a "hotter" ECU or adding a "chip" to the stock ECU will give a more performance oriented ignition curve. In the D15A3, the ignition is not controlled by the ECU so this is not a factor. The early Honda/Acura ECUs are only concerned with rev limits and injector metering.
higher RPM limits with a stock bottom end and stock cam is asking for a thrown rod and no extra power. The stock cam profile hits peaks power just before the stock rev limit and there is no advantage in going past that.

And the Integra ECU "thinks" it is talking to 245cc injectors in the D16A1 rather than the 195cc injectors in the D15A3. This leads to a very rich condition that does not make any more power.

The bottom line- As much as we would love to "just plug in power" to the D15A3, it just aint gonna happen that easily. Stick to the stock ECU and concentrate on making power the old fashioned way... get more air and fuel in the CORRECT RATIO
in and out of the cylinders."
(cbstdscott from RPR)

[cvcc_wagon]

This is what i have so far:


Question: How to perform a D16A1 swap into a first generation Civic/CRX
(D16A1 1.6 16V DOHC PGM-FI 1590 113hp@6250rpm 99tq@5500rpm '86-'89 Integra (USA))

Answer: (off site)
http://www.redpepperracing.com/gallery/SCC-ZC-Article
http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/westech.html
http://home.wideopenwest.com/~tschmidt/
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/9855/87crx/


Question: How to swap '86-'89 Integra brake system into a '84-'87 Civic/CRX

Answer:
What you'll need is the brake system from an '86-'89 Integra. An '86-'89 Integra is mechanically the same as an '84-'87 civic and most parts will bolt right on.(note, this swap will only work on ‘84-’87 Civics and CRX’s, it will not work on ‘88-’91 Civic/CRX). You can even get cross drilled rotors for this system if you want, but for a street car, stock rotors will work best (more surface area).

The parts needed from '86-'89 Integra:

Master cylinder (don't bother with the booster, it won't fit on the Civic)
Proportioning valve
Front calipers
Front rotors
complete rear disc assembly
Rear brake hoses
E-brake cables
Rear caliper mounting bracket to rear axle bolts (4 per side)
(get the whole rear axle with a complete brake assembly if you can)

Since you will be putting a lot of effort into swapping these parts, I would recommend rebuilding them or at the very least, have your rotors turned.

Tools needed:

32mm socket
10mm tubing wrench
Breaker bar or pneumatic impact wrench
Torque wrench
The usual tools (sockets, open/box end wrenches etc.)
Repair manual (Civic)

Here's what you'll need to do:

Starting with the master cylinder.
You will need to do a little modification to the mounting flange in order to get it to fit. The round cylinder (barrel) on the back of the master cylinder mounting flange is about 1/4" too large in diameter to fit into the booster, so you will need to grind down the "barrel" a little (not difficult). You can then seal the master to the booster using RTV. Another option that I have heard of, is using the master cylinder from an '87 Prelude. Apparently this master will fit on the Civic booster without modification (I have not tried this yet, so I can't tell you if this really works or not, but as long as the Prelude booster has a 7/8" bore, in theory it should work).

Replace the Civic brake proportioning valve with the Integra unit.

Next, Jack up the entire body of the car SECURELY!!!!! Support the rear axle and remove the wheels.

The front brakes are really easy, just replace the Civic parts with the Integra parts.

The rear brakes are a little more involved, especially the passenger side (assuming you are in the U.S.). Before you get started removing parts, remove the bolts that hold the bottom of the rear struts in place, this way the torsion on the rear axle will not be fighting against you.

The rear drivers side:

Remove the old drum, hub, brake mounting plate, E-brake cable and brake hose from the Civic. What you will be left with is a spindle and four bolts. You will need to remove these bolts and replace them with the same bolts from the Integra. The reason for this is because the Integra caliper mounting bracket is much thicker than the Civic brake shoe plate.

Next dismantle the driver side brake set up from the Integra. Remove the caliper, rotor, hub, dust shield and caliper mounting bracket until all that you are left with is a spindle. Toss the Integra spindle and trailing arm in the trash pile since you will not be able to use them (the Integra trailing arms are shorter than the Civic arms).

Install the four bolts (mentioned earlier) from the Integra axle into the Civic axle, then install the, caliper mounting bracket, dust shield, hub, rotor, and caliper.

The rear passenger side:

Remove all parts from the Civic the same as the drivers side. The only difficult part is dismantling the Integra parts. To do this you will need to break apart the Integra carrier bearing. This is because the caliper mounting plate is mounted behind the bearing on the Integra (not so with the Civic).

Back to the Civic.

Remove the four bolts around the spindle. You will need to rotate the spindle in order to get them out, as you remove them you will bend the dust flange a little but don't worry about it just bend it back into shape with a flat screwdriver after you have installed the Integra bolts.

Next, install the Integra bolts, straighten the dust flange and assemble this side the same as the drivers side.

Torque down the spindle nuts and stake them.

Install the Integra rear brake hoses:
They are a little longer than the Civic hoses were So you will need to be a little creative when installing them. Mine ended up in sort of an "S" shape.

Install the Integra E-brake cables:
You will need to use the Civic mounting tabs, so carefully cut the rubber tabs off of the integra cables. These cables are also a little longer than the Civic cables, but you can still route them the same way. The only difference is that I ended up crossing them over underneath the car and installing the left cable to the right side of the E-brake handle and the right cable to the left side, just to take up a little excess length.

Next look around the car and make sure that everything is installed, tightened and bolted down (like the rear strut bolts and hub nut dust covers etc.).

Bleed the brakes.

Adjust the E-brake

Then install the wheels and take it for a test drive!

Note:
It is very important that you DO NOT mix the Civic and Integra brake parts. For example, don't swap the rear disc brakes onto your Civic but leave the stock Civic calipers on the front. Or, DO NOT swap all the disc brakes on to your Civic without swapping the Master cylinder and proportioning valve. This is because the amount of pressure needed to operate the Integra 4 wheel disc brake system is FAR MORE than the amount of pressure required to operate the stock Civic drum system. The Integra brake system was designed and balanced at the factory for safe operation, so don't mess with it unless you have a thorough understanding of fluid dynamics!

Two more notes from the author (lxndr):
You will need to use 14" or larger wheels in order to clear the discs, and you will need to disconnect the passenger side trailing arm so that you can rotate the spindle.

This swap took me one weekend to complete. This is because I had no guidance at all (other than rumors on the internet), and it turned out that I needed a couple more parts from the junk yard so I had to go back the next day and pull them. Don't worry, if you get all of the parts on my list you'll have everything you need!


Question: How to lower an '84-'87 Civic/CRX (with stock motor and suspension):

Answer:
The front is really easy, you don't even need to jack up the car if you know where the adjustment nut is! If you only need about an inch, just loosen the height adjustment nut. Doing this brought the height of my '86 CRX from about 24" to 22 and 7/8". Before you take any measurements roll the car back and forth and bounce it to settle the suspension. Measure squarely through the center of the wheel to the lower edge of the wheel well. Make sure that the car is on a flat surface with properly inflated tires. This procedure took me about 20 mins.

I would not recommend going any lower than about an inch at the front without taking out the torsion springs. 1 and 1/8" was as far as I could go and still have enough threads left on the adjustment nut to feel safe.

Also, if you are planning to do a D16A1 motor swap, you can still find stiffer torsion springs (24mm or 27mm) or you can also swap in an '86-'89 Integra cross member with bigger springs (+ power steering).

To lower the car more than an inch at the front you will need to remove the torsion springs. To do this you will need to set the front of the car on jack stands and place a jack under the spindle of the side you are working on. Then remove the metal dust cap at the rear and the rubber cap from the front of the torsion springs and use a dot of paint to make a reference point on the torsion tube and spring. Remove the rear spring clip, then using a heavy hammer and a large heavy punch or heavy round rod, pound the torsion bars forward about 3/4" and remove the front spring clip. Then spray the salines with lubricant and pound the springs back until they fall out. you may need to adjust the height if the jack until you relieve some tension on the spring (lower is better).

Next you will need to grind one spline off of the rear of the torsion spring next to the spline key. Grind the spline to the right of the key on the passenger side and to the left of the key for the drivers side then lube up the splines and install them in the reverse order from which you took them out. You may need to adjust the height of the jack in order to get the splines to align. Make sure that they go in one spline off from their stock location (reference mark becomes helpful).

Tighten the height adjustment nut all the way! Once you get the car on the ground loosen the nut until you get the desired height.

You can grind 2 or 3 splines if you are truly insane!

No matter how far you lower your car, it is a good idea to have the front end aligned when you are done. If you need a little more camber you can elongate the strut mounting holes toward the inside of the car, and if you need a little more caster you can pull the crossmember forward.

You should also consider replacing your struts with something adjustable like Tokico Illuminas, especially if you are planning to go really low.

At the rear you can just cut the springs or use aftermarket springs. You won't even need a spring compressor to remove them. If you go with the cutting method, one coil will usually give you about 1' drop, but do some trial and error before you start cutting too much off your coils since you can't add the coils back on. I've also heard that you can use Civic wagon springs in the back for about 1' drop, but I have not verified this. I have been using Tokico progressive springs. Tokico says that these springs will lower your car between 1"-1.5", but they really only lower it about .5", so I just cut the springs with a cut off wheel until I got the desired ride height. You can also get progressive springs from Eibach and adjustable springs from Ground Control.

You will need to find an adjustable panhard bar if you go any lower than about 1"-1.5" at the rear. or you can cut and weld yours to the appropriate length.

If you need stiffer sway bars, you can find both front and rear bars on an '86-'89 Integra, or use the front sway bar from an '84-'87 Civic wagon 4x4.

Note:
You can heat the rear springs with a torch and just let the car drop but the car will handle poorly, I wouldn't recommend it!

[lxndr]

Hey CRXdan,

I agree with you, a stock D15A3 should never reach it's rev limit, ESPECIALLY since by now most '84-'87 Civic/CRXs will have at least 150k miles on them.

I admit, I am not running this ECU on my current CRX SI simply because my engine is reaching the end of it's miles, so it would be pointless to do any modifications (I'm just waiting until I have some time to do the traditional D16A1-ZC swap).

I am not trying to prove you wrong but, I DID do this swap on a previous SI, and it seemed to improve things, albeit marginally (I never claimed that this swap would add signifigant power)
Hmmm... Maybe just thinking that my car was performing better made it happen?
Also, I did not have problems with emissions, but I live in WA and our emission standards are not as strict as in other states.

You are also right... There is no 1 thing that you can bolt on that will magicaly give you horsepower, it's all part of a balanced system.

Thank you for your input. I'll do some more research and maybe I'll even put this ECU (closely followed by some Integra injectors) in my current SI just to see how long it will take for my engine to blow up!

I'll post the results.

Results:
NOT WORTH THE EFFORT.

[aqueous5]

Hey everyone, so...i dont know a lot about the D series engines, so i hear you all saying that only a D16a1 will fit, is there any differance between a D16a1 and a D16y7? would that still bolt up or.....is it just the a1? THANKS!

[cvcc_wagon]

D16Y7 1.6 16V SOHC PGM-FI 1590 106hp@6200rpm 103tq@4600rpm '96-'00 Civic CX/DX/LX (USA)

generally speaking all honda's from before 87 have the same engine mounts and everything after that have differant ones, except the Acura Integra which didn't switch over till 89, so that means that all D series engines except the d16a1 wil not fit w/o custom mounts, so the d16y7 will not fit

[aqueous5]

ok, thats Very good to know, thanks a lot! this will be my LAST question.....what springs/struts will fit on this car? what would you suggest? i dont want this thing to flip if i take a corner, i want it to hug pretty good, but i also want a relatively smooth ride....any suggestions thanks !

[cvcc_wagon]

B20A5 2.0 16V DOHC PGM-FI 1955 110hp@5500rpm 114tq@4500rpm '87 -'91 Prelude 2.0 Si

does anyone have any info on this engine? does it have the old mounting set up?

[lxndr]

Hey aqueous5,

How will you be using your car, how fast do you want to corner and how fat is your wallet?

I'll assume that this is a street driven car and that is why you want a relatively smooth ride. Keep in mind that a performance oriented suspension will stiffen your ride.

Ultimitely you should use Tokoco Illumina struts because they are 5 way adjustable. This means you can tune them according to the feel you want and the way you drive.

Pick up some progressive springs for the rear and leave the stock springs in the front.

Lower the car about an inch to improve your center of gravity.

This is the formula that I am using for my street driven car because like you, I still want to be able to drive the car with relative comfort. I didn't want to lower my current car more than an inch for a couple of reasons: 1) I didn't want to have to do too many modifications to my car like cutting and welding my panhard bar, 2) I don't like bottoming out or scraping bottom on speed bumps, and 3) I don't want to waste my money on parts designed for use on a race car only to use them on a street car. With this formula I can take a 90 degree turn on a two lane road at about 40 mph (if I want to) without breaking traction and still maintain a comfortable ride. If you need a little more cornering ability add some sway bars an adjust the front suspension for more camber, and if you need even more than that, get some larger springs for the front and add some adjustable springs to the rear then lower the car a little more.

Keep the rear a little stiffer than the front to avoid understeer.

Also, you will get a little more cornering ability with a low profile tire and a little more comfort with a tire that has a taller sidewall.

In the past I've gotten all excited and blown all sorts of money on race parts for a car that would never see the track. What I found out is that race parts don't work very well on the street. You'll end up with broken parts an a car that is uncomfortable to drive. My advise to anyone building a car is to build a car with parts designed for the way you are REALLY going to use the car, not the way that you drive your car in your dreams. You'll be much happier in the long run.


...but then again, who asked me?

[cvcc_wagon]

ttt