Sniper In the US !!
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ragt20
10-11-2002, 07:58 AM
Surprised I haven't seen this posted here...or is it somewhere else on AF....
Police in the United States say a man shot dead at a petrol station in Virginia was the latest victim of a serial sniper.
Local and federal agencies are involved in the hunt
Prince William county police department said ballistic evidence "conclusively linked" the shooting in Manassas on Wednesday night to a spate of gun attacks in and around Washington DC.
The mystery gunman has killed seven people and wounded two others since 2 October, sparking mass fear in the area.
Investigators are trying to track down a white van reportedly seen leaving the scene of the latest fatal shooting and have been combing the area for any evidence.
Suspicions
Despite the high-profile search for the sniper, police have so far failed, at least publicly, to provide any strong indication of who he or she might be.
Shootings
2-3 Oct - Five people killed in Montgomery County, Maryland
3 Oct - Man killed in Washington DC
4 Oct - Woman injured in Fredericksburg, Virginia
7 Oct - Boy injured in Prince George's County, Maryland
9 Oct - Man killed in Manassas, Virginia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With so little to go on, the authorities are continuing to appeal for people to come forward with any suspicions they might have.
Wednesday's victim has been named as 53-year-old Dean Harold Meyers of Gaithersburg, Maryland.
Police said he was shot once in the head. All the other victims were brought down with a single bullet.
Witnesses have given investigators a description of a vehicle seen in the area but it is not yet clear if it is connected to the crime.
"It was a white minivan, described as a panel vehicle, with only front passenger windows and no windows in the back," said local police spokeswoman Sergeant Kim Chinn.
The authorities have, however, backed away from earlier reports that two men were seen in a white van near the scene.
Last week, when the sniper first struck, a witness reported seeing a white van leaving the scene.
So far, the victims appear to have little in common - men and women aged from 13 to 72, of white, black, Hispanic and Indian origin.
Though they're strangers, they're part of the community
Israel, USA
Click here to send your comments
Five of those killed were shot within eight kilometres (five miles) of each other in Montgomery County, and the sixth died on a Washington DC street.
Another victim was shot and injured in the neighbouring state of Virginia, and a schoolboy shot outside his school in Prince George's County on Monday remains in a critical condition.
Many locals are now terrified of leaving their homes, for fear they could be the sniper's next victim.
"I'm scared to go to my mailbox. I'm scared to go to my car. I have two young kids. I'm a single mom. So I'm scared, really scared," one woman told the BBC.
Anger at media
The discovery of a tarot card carrying the message, "Dear policeman, I am God" was reported on Wednesday and sparked speculation about a possible new lead.
Moose: Angered by media speculation on tarot card
But the head of the investigation, Police Chief Charles Moose, condemned the publication of the find by the media, saying it could harm his inquiries.
"My concern about the card is its ability or inability to mess up the investigation. My investigators made clear and compelling arguments to me that that information was not to be released," he said.
The card was allegedly discovered outside the school in Prince George's County, where the 13-year-old boy was shot.
Nearly 200 investigators have been working through 1,400 leads, sifted from 7,500 tip-offs in an attempt to track down the killer.
The reward money for information currently stands at to $237,000.
Police are using geographical as well as psychological profiling in their search, examining the crime scenes in a bid to detect a pattern.
Federal agents have been assisting in the case since Thursday 3 October, the day after the shootings began.
Parents, police officers and emergency workers have been accompanying children to school and police protection is in force at all schools.
Police in the United States say a man shot dead at a petrol station in Virginia was the latest victim of a serial sniper.
Local and federal agencies are involved in the hunt
Prince William county police department said ballistic evidence "conclusively linked" the shooting in Manassas on Wednesday night to a spate of gun attacks in and around Washington DC.
The mystery gunman has killed seven people and wounded two others since 2 October, sparking mass fear in the area.
Investigators are trying to track down a white van reportedly seen leaving the scene of the latest fatal shooting and have been combing the area for any evidence.
Suspicions
Despite the high-profile search for the sniper, police have so far failed, at least publicly, to provide any strong indication of who he or she might be.
Shootings
2-3 Oct - Five people killed in Montgomery County, Maryland
3 Oct - Man killed in Washington DC
4 Oct - Woman injured in Fredericksburg, Virginia
7 Oct - Boy injured in Prince George's County, Maryland
9 Oct - Man killed in Manassas, Virginia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With so little to go on, the authorities are continuing to appeal for people to come forward with any suspicions they might have.
Wednesday's victim has been named as 53-year-old Dean Harold Meyers of Gaithersburg, Maryland.
Police said he was shot once in the head. All the other victims were brought down with a single bullet.
Witnesses have given investigators a description of a vehicle seen in the area but it is not yet clear if it is connected to the crime.
"It was a white minivan, described as a panel vehicle, with only front passenger windows and no windows in the back," said local police spokeswoman Sergeant Kim Chinn.
The authorities have, however, backed away from earlier reports that two men were seen in a white van near the scene.
Last week, when the sniper first struck, a witness reported seeing a white van leaving the scene.
So far, the victims appear to have little in common - men and women aged from 13 to 72, of white, black, Hispanic and Indian origin.
Though they're strangers, they're part of the community
Israel, USA
Click here to send your comments
Five of those killed were shot within eight kilometres (five miles) of each other in Montgomery County, and the sixth died on a Washington DC street.
Another victim was shot and injured in the neighbouring state of Virginia, and a schoolboy shot outside his school in Prince George's County on Monday remains in a critical condition.
Many locals are now terrified of leaving their homes, for fear they could be the sniper's next victim.
"I'm scared to go to my mailbox. I'm scared to go to my car. I have two young kids. I'm a single mom. So I'm scared, really scared," one woman told the BBC.
Anger at media
The discovery of a tarot card carrying the message, "Dear policeman, I am God" was reported on Wednesday and sparked speculation about a possible new lead.
Moose: Angered by media speculation on tarot card
But the head of the investigation, Police Chief Charles Moose, condemned the publication of the find by the media, saying it could harm his inquiries.
"My concern about the card is its ability or inability to mess up the investigation. My investigators made clear and compelling arguments to me that that information was not to be released," he said.
The card was allegedly discovered outside the school in Prince George's County, where the 13-year-old boy was shot.
Nearly 200 investigators have been working through 1,400 leads, sifted from 7,500 tip-offs in an attempt to track down the killer.
The reward money for information currently stands at to $237,000.
Police are using geographical as well as psychological profiling in their search, examining the crime scenes in a bid to detect a pattern.
Federal agents have been assisting in the case since Thursday 3 October, the day after the shootings began.
Parents, police officers and emergency workers have been accompanying children to school and police protection is in force at all schools.
DVSNCYNIKL
10-11-2002, 08:31 AM
I've been following this story very closely. I'm nowhere near the danger, but, it is sick how someone is hunting people for fun. The sick shit is, he's picking people at random. It doesn't matter what race, creed or color.
YogsVR4
10-11-2002, 10:13 AM
I still don't understand why releasing information on the tarot card is bad. Thats not something everyone has. I'd think they'd want to pass that out for more leads. I'm a tad concerned that Chief Moose is to worried about his control then getting more poeople involved.
jsb88
10-11-2002, 11:55 AM
These people are sick!
It is probably some drop out gothic reject with no real life and a good aim.:mad:
It is probably some drop out gothic reject with no real life and a good aim.:mad:
JD
10-11-2002, 01:04 PM
I find myself wondering if this is connected to Al Qaeda/The Taliban somehow? Like the anthrax-laced letters, the suspicion was there in connection with them as well, but I don't think an established link was ever able to be proven. Nevertheless, my fear, until this Tarot card, was that this would be another string of attacks that would "die out" as an unsolved case before the authorities were able to make heads or tales out of the evidence they have been able to find. The Tarot card is definitely a curve ball, something seemingly much more typical of a serial killer and not a terrorist organization.. and maybe why if Al Qaeda is responsible, it was such a sneaky move for them to make.
kicker1_solo
10-11-2002, 04:14 PM
yeah, it's very sad. Sick bastards!!! :mad:
I think they should capture that guy, let him and me loose on an island together and let me have my gun. See how much fun that asshole has!
I think they should capture that guy, let him and me loose on an island together and let me have my gun. See how much fun that asshole has!
ragt20
10-11-2002, 04:44 PM
sick thing I heard on the radio this morning was apparently a couple of days ago someone mentioned he wasn't a good marksman, as a good one wouldn't have just injured some of the victims....then a couple of days later....to apparently to prove a point the nutter shoots and kills someone with one shot in the head......its as if he is playin games with the police...showin them whos in charge....:mad: :mad:
boingo82
10-11-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by JD
... Like the anthrax-laced letters, the suspicion was there in connection with them as well, but I don't think an established link was ever able to be proven. ...
I watched a TLC show on this..I didn't see the very end, but the anthrax was eventually traced back to one of the US's own labs.
... Like the anthrax-laced letters, the suspicion was there in connection with them as well, but I don't think an established link was ever able to be proven. ...
I watched a TLC show on this..I didn't see the very end, but the anthrax was eventually traced back to one of the US's own labs.
ragt20
10-11-2002, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by boingo82
I watched a TLC show on this..I didn't see the very end, but the anthrax was eventually traced back to one of the US's own labs.
yeah heard something along the lines of that as well, that those letters were traced back to one of the US's own labs....and allegedly had something to do with that dept losing funding or something......thus why no-one heard much about it....:mad:
I watched a TLC show on this..I didn't see the very end, but the anthrax was eventually traced back to one of the US's own labs.
yeah heard something along the lines of that as well, that those letters were traced back to one of the US's own labs....and allegedly had something to do with that dept losing funding or something......thus why no-one heard much about it....:mad:
SilverLotus340R
10-11-2002, 05:13 PM
no offense to neone..but
this cannot be just ANYONE ..i mean not everyone has access to a sniper rifle...and can just shoot anyone in the head. NO ONE can just pick up a gun and shoot someone from 500-1000 feet away..its not possible...
But if anyone has been watching the Today show or any other show in which that one guy is on that is "leading the investigation on the police side" he is an ASSHOLE..everyother question is No comment and I dont think we should release that information..that whole tarot card thing...the guy WANTS us to know hes in charge...he just said dont tell the media because he wants the police to know he is the one in charge and he has control..
im not a police investigator and no dont think im the freakin sniper for knowing all this..but i have grown up around cops all my life....i know some shit
oh and just to finish this off... WHO EVER THE HELL GOES AFTER THE CHILDREN OF AMERICA TRYING TO SHOOT/SNIPE/KILL WHATEVER
THEY SHOULD BE FUCKIN LOCKED UP AND/OR KILLED ..they have no right to live for going after children or senior citizens who would have no chance against an older person
i agree with kicker I think they should capture that guy, let him and me loose on an island together and let me have my gun. See how much fun that asshole has!
this cannot be just ANYONE ..i mean not everyone has access to a sniper rifle...and can just shoot anyone in the head. NO ONE can just pick up a gun and shoot someone from 500-1000 feet away..its not possible...
But if anyone has been watching the Today show or any other show in which that one guy is on that is "leading the investigation on the police side" he is an ASSHOLE..everyother question is No comment and I dont think we should release that information..that whole tarot card thing...the guy WANTS us to know hes in charge...he just said dont tell the media because he wants the police to know he is the one in charge and he has control..
im not a police investigator and no dont think im the freakin sniper for knowing all this..but i have grown up around cops all my life....i know some shit
oh and just to finish this off... WHO EVER THE HELL GOES AFTER THE CHILDREN OF AMERICA TRYING TO SHOOT/SNIPE/KILL WHATEVER
THEY SHOULD BE FUCKIN LOCKED UP AND/OR KILLED ..they have no right to live for going after children or senior citizens who would have no chance against an older person
i agree with kicker I think they should capture that guy, let him and me loose on an island together and let me have my gun. See how much fun that asshole has!
Lizard King
10-11-2002, 05:14 PM
This guy's a real pro.
He's using .223 subsonic rounds thru a silencer from very far away.
He's using .223 subsonic rounds thru a silencer from very far away.
ci5ic
10-11-2002, 06:40 PM
I agree with the fact that the individual(s) behind these shootings are sick fucks, but I don't agree with the bashing of the head of the investigation...
There's a very good reason why they don't want specific information given out. Chances are EXTREMELY good that whoever is perpetrating these crimes has access to a TV, and they are following the coverage of the investigation VERY closely. The more information that is leaked to the media, the more of an edge the sniper has. The less information they give out, the more they keep the sniper guessing "what do they know?". But it's very possible that news sources could give away valuable information that would tip him off to a development in the case, and he would alter his activities in light of that information...
I do NOT believe that this is the work of an Al-Quaida terrorist cell. Although these events have struck fear into many Americans, it is just not their "style". Terrorists (such as those trained by Al-Quaida) are religious fanatics, and when they are involved in an act of terrorism, they believe that they are doing gods bidding, and for that, they are guaranteed a place in heaven. So they strap a bomb to their chest (or whatever) and blow themselves up in a very bold fashion. They don't snipe ate people from afar and then cower from the police.
There's a very good reason why they don't want specific information given out. Chances are EXTREMELY good that whoever is perpetrating these crimes has access to a TV, and they are following the coverage of the investigation VERY closely. The more information that is leaked to the media, the more of an edge the sniper has. The less information they give out, the more they keep the sniper guessing "what do they know?". But it's very possible that news sources could give away valuable information that would tip him off to a development in the case, and he would alter his activities in light of that information...
I do NOT believe that this is the work of an Al-Quaida terrorist cell. Although these events have struck fear into many Americans, it is just not their "style". Terrorists (such as those trained by Al-Quaida) are religious fanatics, and when they are involved in an act of terrorism, they believe that they are doing gods bidding, and for that, they are guaranteed a place in heaven. So they strap a bomb to their chest (or whatever) and blow themselves up in a very bold fashion. They don't snipe ate people from afar and then cower from the police.
Ssom
10-11-2002, 06:48 PM
Yeah I think this guy is fucked up- I can't imagine what would cause a man to decide to go kill 8 innocent people - It is no way an Al Qaeda attack- the man police are looking for is a White Supremisist :mad: :mad:
ci5ic
10-11-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
the man police are looking for is a White Supremisist :mad: :mad:
Well, since they don't have any suspects identified yet, I highly doubt if they know that they are a White Supremesist. Also, I was under the impression that he has shot a few white people, and that his victims were completely random, even where race is concerned...
the man police are looking for is a White Supremisist :mad: :mad:
Well, since they don't have any suspects identified yet, I highly doubt if they know that they are a White Supremesist. Also, I was under the impression that he has shot a few white people, and that his victims were completely random, even where race is concerned...
Ssom
10-11-2002, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by ci5ic
Well, since they don't have any suspects identified yet, I highly doubt if they know that they are a White Supremesist. Also, I was under the impression that he has shot a few white people, and that his victims were completely random, even where race is concerned...
The police are wanting to question Robert someone (can't remember the last name) about the shootings- he has been named a suspect- at least thats what I saw in the Herald :mad:
Well, since they don't have any suspects identified yet, I highly doubt if they know that they are a White Supremesist. Also, I was under the impression that he has shot a few white people, and that his victims were completely random, even where race is concerned...
The police are wanting to question Robert someone (can't remember the last name) about the shootings- he has been named a suspect- at least thats what I saw in the Herald :mad:
J SPEC SilEighty
10-11-2002, 11:48 PM
Don't know if you heard about this one yet but he struck again today. He shot a man at a gas station in Fredricksburg, Virginia. I just hope he doesn't head down here to lower Virginia.
I got this next quote from cnn.com
"Police are scouring Northern Virginia for a white Chevrolet Astro-type minivan with a ladder rack after a man was shot and killed at a gas station near Fredericksburg today. Ballistics evidence from the scene is being examined and Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose added the "shooting certainly looks similar.""
If this guy is just now figuring out that the "shooting certainly looks similar" then they need to get some better guys working on this. :rolleyes:
I got this next quote from cnn.com
"Police are scouring Northern Virginia for a white Chevrolet Astro-type minivan with a ladder rack after a man was shot and killed at a gas station near Fredericksburg today. Ballistics evidence from the scene is being examined and Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose added the "shooting certainly looks similar.""
If this guy is just now figuring out that the "shooting certainly looks similar" then they need to get some better guys working on this. :rolleyes:
ci5ic
10-12-2002, 12:53 AM
They've updated the story, and have determined through ballistics evidence that the most recent shooting is related.
jsb88
10-12-2002, 05:40 AM
so sad... all those inncoent poeple.
Oz
10-12-2002, 05:58 AM
This post adresses concerns raised by SilverLotus and YogsVR4 and adds to comments made by Ci5ic,
There are several reasons Police investigating crimes like this that attract lots of media attention don't want small details pertinent to the case known. The primary one is to prevent copy-cat crimes (I know it's sick - but true). Some others are - they release a whole lot of general information about the crime and mention this and that - but leave out specific details, like the card and then nail the guy in questioning by laying the trap that the media knew about it. The final reason that I can remember (from reading about this kinda crap) is that it can either trigger more crimes later on / spurn the kiler on y demonstrating success or make people who have similar kind of material look like suspects to friends and/or family.
Oz.
There are several reasons Police investigating crimes like this that attract lots of media attention don't want small details pertinent to the case known. The primary one is to prevent copy-cat crimes (I know it's sick - but true). Some others are - they release a whole lot of general information about the crime and mention this and that - but leave out specific details, like the card and then nail the guy in questioning by laying the trap that the media knew about it. The final reason that I can remember (from reading about this kinda crap) is that it can either trigger more crimes later on / spurn the kiler on y demonstrating success or make people who have similar kind of material look like suspects to friends and/or family.
Oz.
primera man
10-12-2002, 02:11 PM
I find it very hard to get this into my head that there is some stupid arsehole out there that gets a kick out of doing this.
It makes me sick that he has no worries about age/colour/sex....its just another person that he sees as a enemy and wants to shoot.
I cant begin to think what it must be like living in that town and the worry about even just walking down to your letter box.
If they get this bastard...what happens then?.....they will say he/she is just another poor kid that has had a rough up bringing etc etc and is just another nutter that slipped through the system.......lets just lock him away and the tax payer will look after him.
Well i say FUCK HIM.....Catch him, put him on display to the public so people can see the shit head in person then do the world a favour and kill him.....no questions asked.
It makes me sick that he has no worries about age/colour/sex....its just another person that he sees as a enemy and wants to shoot.
I cant begin to think what it must be like living in that town and the worry about even just walking down to your letter box.
If they get this bastard...what happens then?.....they will say he/she is just another poor kid that has had a rough up bringing etc etc and is just another nutter that slipped through the system.......lets just lock him away and the tax payer will look after him.
Well i say FUCK HIM.....Catch him, put him on display to the public so people can see the shit head in person then do the world a favour and kill him.....no questions asked.
S Brake
10-12-2002, 02:14 PM
My friends sister actually lives in D.C. and before all this crap happened she would take her kids out for walks in parks and such. Now, I don't think they even leave the house.
This guy is sick...
This guy is sick...
kicker1_solo
10-12-2002, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by snowboarder
My friends sister actually lives in D.C. and before all this crap happened she would take her kids out for walks in parks and such. Now, I don't think they even leave the house.
This guy is sick... I saw on the news that there's hardly anyone out in that area. People used to go on walks, sit on their front porch, hardly anyone does now. Oh yeah, and there was another one this morning. I don't have the details though.
My friends sister actually lives in D.C. and before all this crap happened she would take her kids out for walks in parks and such. Now, I don't think they even leave the house.
This guy is sick... I saw on the news that there's hardly anyone out in that area. People used to go on walks, sit on their front porch, hardly anyone does now. Oh yeah, and there was another one this morning. I don't have the details though.
ragt20
10-12-2002, 06:18 PM
heres a few details of what he done.....
1: 1720 Wednesday 2 October
Shoot-out at Michaels craft store in the Aspen Hill area. Windows shattered, but no-one hurt.
2: 1804 Wednesday 2 October
James D Martin, aged 55, of Silver Spring is killed in a grocery store car park in Wheaton.
3: 0741 Thursday 3 October
James "Sonny" Buchanan, aged 39, of Arlington, Virginia, is killed while cutting grass at a car dealership in the White Flint area.
4: 0812 Thursday 3 October
Prenkumar Walekar, aged 54, a taxi driver from Olney is killed as he filled up with petrol at a station in the Aspen Hill area.
5: 0837 Thursday 3 October
Sarah Ramos, aged 34, from Silver Spring is killed outside a post office in Silver Spring.
6: 0958 Thursday 3 October
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, aged 25, from Silver Spring is killed as she vacuums her van at a petrol station in Kensington.
7: 2115 Thursday 3 October
Pascal Charlot, aged 72, from Washington, DC is killed while walking on a city street.
8: 1430 Friday 4 October
A woman is wounded when she is shot in the back in the car park of a shopping mall in Fredericksburg, Virginia, about 80 kilometres (50 miles) south of Washington.
9: 0800 Monday 7 October
A 13-year-old schoolboy is shot while being dropped off at Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Prince George County in the Maryland suburbs of the US capital.
10: 2015 Wednesday 9 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station just after filling his car in the Virginia town of Manassas, 30 miles (48 kms) southwest of Washington
11: 0930 Friday 11 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station near Fredericksburg, in Virginia, 40 miles (60kms) south of Washington DC. Police confirm that Kenneth Bridges is the eighth fatal victim of the sniper after ballistic tests
and apparently theres a $500k reward now for info leading to his capture........
1: 1720 Wednesday 2 October
Shoot-out at Michaels craft store in the Aspen Hill area. Windows shattered, but no-one hurt.
2: 1804 Wednesday 2 October
James D Martin, aged 55, of Silver Spring is killed in a grocery store car park in Wheaton.
3: 0741 Thursday 3 October
James "Sonny" Buchanan, aged 39, of Arlington, Virginia, is killed while cutting grass at a car dealership in the White Flint area.
4: 0812 Thursday 3 October
Prenkumar Walekar, aged 54, a taxi driver from Olney is killed as he filled up with petrol at a station in the Aspen Hill area.
5: 0837 Thursday 3 October
Sarah Ramos, aged 34, from Silver Spring is killed outside a post office in Silver Spring.
6: 0958 Thursday 3 October
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, aged 25, from Silver Spring is killed as she vacuums her van at a petrol station in Kensington.
7: 2115 Thursday 3 October
Pascal Charlot, aged 72, from Washington, DC is killed while walking on a city street.
8: 1430 Friday 4 October
A woman is wounded when she is shot in the back in the car park of a shopping mall in Fredericksburg, Virginia, about 80 kilometres (50 miles) south of Washington.
9: 0800 Monday 7 October
A 13-year-old schoolboy is shot while being dropped off at Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Prince George County in the Maryland suburbs of the US capital.
10: 2015 Wednesday 9 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station just after filling his car in the Virginia town of Manassas, 30 miles (48 kms) southwest of Washington
11: 0930 Friday 11 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station near Fredericksburg, in Virginia, 40 miles (60kms) south of Washington DC. Police confirm that Kenneth Bridges is the eighth fatal victim of the sniper after ballistic tests
and apparently theres a $500k reward now for info leading to his capture........
kicker1_solo
10-12-2002, 06:33 PM
I thought there was another one today too (saturday morning)?
ragt20
10-12-2002, 06:38 PM
nope not heard about that one......
YellowMaranello
10-12-2002, 08:58 PM
How to catch the sniper:
http://www.zen6439.zen.co.uk/trap.jpg
http://www.zen6439.zen.co.uk/trap.jpg
Damien
10-12-2002, 09:08 PM
Yeah I know all about it but it's funny to see a Brit post it.
J Spec and I (known ones) are the nost likely to post about it since he is heading our way, but I have nothing ot fear. For one, i'm inside too much whoring :rolleyes: j/p but I know what'll happen.
As for the politcal point-of-view. It sucks! Apparently yhe guy isn't using s super-snipe but a closer form of range snipe. I don't know, I don't think it's a terrorist act like some people are saying. I'm taking Criminal Psych now so I think it's more like something has happen to him and it caused a chain reaction.
J Spec and I (known ones) are the nost likely to post about it since he is heading our way, but I have nothing ot fear. For one, i'm inside too much whoring :rolleyes: j/p but I know what'll happen.
As for the politcal point-of-view. It sucks! Apparently yhe guy isn't using s super-snipe but a closer form of range snipe. I don't know, I don't think it's a terrorist act like some people are saying. I'm taking Criminal Psych now so I think it's more like something has happen to him and it caused a chain reaction.
Ssom
10-12-2002, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by ragt20
heres a few details of what he done.....
2: 1804 Wednesday 2 October
James D Martin, aged 55, of Silver Spring is killed in a grocery store car park in Wheaton.
3: 0741 Thursday 3 October
James "Sonny" Buchanan, aged 39, of Arlington, Virginia, is killed while cutting grass at a car dealership in the White Flint area.
4: 0812 Thursday 3 October
Prenkumar Walekar, aged 54, a taxi driver from Olney is killed as he filled up with petrol at a station in the Aspen Hill area.
6: 0958 Thursday 3 October
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, aged 25, from Silver Spring is killed as she vacuums her van at a petrol station in Kensington.
8: 1430 Friday 4 October
A woman is wounded when she is shot in the back in the car park of a shopping mall in Fredericksburg, Virginia, about 80 kilometres (50 miles) south of Washington.
10: 2015 Wednesday 9 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station just after filling his car in the Virginia town of Manassas, 30 miles (48 kms) southwest of Washington
11: 0930 Friday 11 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station near Fredericksburg, in Virginia, 40 miles (60kms) south of Washington DC. Police confirm that Kenneth Bridges is the eighth fatal victim of the sniper after ballistic tests
Anyone else notice that a shocking number of these murders involve cars???:confused:
heres a few details of what he done.....
2: 1804 Wednesday 2 October
James D Martin, aged 55, of Silver Spring is killed in a grocery store car park in Wheaton.
3: 0741 Thursday 3 October
James "Sonny" Buchanan, aged 39, of Arlington, Virginia, is killed while cutting grass at a car dealership in the White Flint area.
4: 0812 Thursday 3 October
Prenkumar Walekar, aged 54, a taxi driver from Olney is killed as he filled up with petrol at a station in the Aspen Hill area.
6: 0958 Thursday 3 October
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, aged 25, from Silver Spring is killed as she vacuums her van at a petrol station in Kensington.
8: 1430 Friday 4 October
A woman is wounded when she is shot in the back in the car park of a shopping mall in Fredericksburg, Virginia, about 80 kilometres (50 miles) south of Washington.
10: 2015 Wednesday 9 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station just after filling his car in the Virginia town of Manassas, 30 miles (48 kms) southwest of Washington
11: 0930 Friday 11 October
A man is shot dead at a petrol station near Fredericksburg, in Virginia, 40 miles (60kms) south of Washington DC. Police confirm that Kenneth Bridges is the eighth fatal victim of the sniper after ballistic tests
Anyone else notice that a shocking number of these murders involve cars???:confused:
Bullsnake69
10-12-2002, 10:27 PM
It involves cars because when filling up with gas you are very vulnerable. A way to hopely avoid being picked off is picking a gas station that gives you a way to hide behind yourvehicle and other peoples vehicles. He is probably police or army trained.
kicker1_solo
10-12-2002, 11:56 PM
Hi BS69, welcome to AF :D
replicant_008
10-13-2002, 12:12 AM
A few things...
I agree the crime is an extremely sad, sick and spineless crime - the sooner the authorities catch this megalomanic (or even more sadly these meglomanics) the better for all concerned. It's a terrible thing when we don't feel safe in our communities and fear for ourselves, people we love and for the others in the community.
SilverLotus340R mentions that it isn't possible for just anyone to shoot someone from 800-1000 feet away. I'm afraid and saddened to say it is - without elaborating too much - with access to the right equipment (which is freely available in the US under their gun control laws), some natural skill and some training and practice: sadly making lethal shots from long range isn't that difficult.
And there are rifles that have an effect range of over 2000 ft (and more) which are in use around the world.
And though I share in everyone's anger, frustration and sadness in respect of these heinous crimes being perpertrated in the US - even more sadly for us as members of the human race, that there have been and continue to be many more people killed by the activities of snipers around the world every day and each death in itself is as much a tragedy for their families and communities as the ones we do hear about in the media that are so close to home.
I agree the crime is an extremely sad, sick and spineless crime - the sooner the authorities catch this megalomanic (or even more sadly these meglomanics) the better for all concerned. It's a terrible thing when we don't feel safe in our communities and fear for ourselves, people we love and for the others in the community.
SilverLotus340R mentions that it isn't possible for just anyone to shoot someone from 800-1000 feet away. I'm afraid and saddened to say it is - without elaborating too much - with access to the right equipment (which is freely available in the US under their gun control laws), some natural skill and some training and practice: sadly making lethal shots from long range isn't that difficult.
And there are rifles that have an effect range of over 2000 ft (and more) which are in use around the world.
And though I share in everyone's anger, frustration and sadness in respect of these heinous crimes being perpertrated in the US - even more sadly for us as members of the human race, that there have been and continue to be many more people killed by the activities of snipers around the world every day and each death in itself is as much a tragedy for their families and communities as the ones we do hear about in the media that are so close to home.
Damien
10-13-2002, 12:19 AM
Yeah, that's right replicant. The thing is, it's not a supre-snipe. The range has been estimated, I think, 200-400ft. I do know it's just a basic snipe range nothing like what was planned for the Winter Olympics.
That was apparently a super-snipe way up in the mountains. If you saw a pic showing how far the mountains were to the stadium, it's a real scary thought that someone can shoot you from that distance.
That was apparently a super-snipe way up in the mountains. If you saw a pic showing how far the mountains were to the stadium, it's a real scary thought that someone can shoot you from that distance.
kicker1_solo
10-13-2002, 02:21 AM
I'm going deer hunting tomorrow, I hope I don't accidently get shot. Crap, now I'm going to be paranoid all day tomorrow. :(
tazdev
10-13-2002, 05:17 AM
Now I don't live in the States (never have and probably never will) but I feel that the gun control laws over there need tightening. It seems too easy for any "nutbag" to be able to purchace (legally) fairly hightech and accurate rifles.
Some say the gun control laws here are a joke but luckily it does reduce the number of "non stabily minded" (read - crazy) people getting hold of rifles legally.
NOTE: this is just my opinion from what I have seen (allbeit on TV) and heard from friends that are in or have been in the US.
Some say the gun control laws here are a joke but luckily it does reduce the number of "non stabily minded" (read - crazy) people getting hold of rifles legally.
NOTE: this is just my opinion from what I have seen (allbeit on TV) and heard from friends that are in or have been in the US.
Damien
10-13-2002, 04:02 PM
Like I've been saying, he doesn't have anything hi-tech, at least based on police reports. It's supposively a standard sniper.
gun control here as far as I know passive. The laws are strict, just not enforced enough like they should be probably. i don't much about the gun control laws really.
gun control here as far as I know passive. The laws are strict, just not enforced enough like they should be probably. i don't much about the gun control laws really.
ragt20
10-15-2002, 07:52 AM
looks like the a$$hole has struck again.......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2328555.stm
they'll catch him or them sooner or later hopefully sooner before he does any more harm....and hopefully they fry him:devil: :devil:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2328555.stm
they'll catch him or them sooner or later hopefully sooner before he does any more harm....and hopefully they fry him:devil: :devil:
YogsVR4
10-15-2002, 11:46 AM
He certainly cant be caught fast enough. I cant wait to hear the anti-capitol punishment people when this guy goes to trial (assuming they dont kill him while catching him)
DVSNCYNIKL
10-15-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by SilverLotus340R
no offense to neone..but
this cannot be just ANYONE ..i mean not everyone has access to a sniper rifle...and can just shoot anyone in the head. NO ONE can just pick up a gun and shoot someone from 500-1000 feet away..its not possible...
But if anyone has been watching the Today show or any other show in which that one guy is on that is "leading the investigation on the police side" he is an ASSHOLE..everyother question is No comment and I dont think we should release that information..that whole tarot card thing...the guy WANTS us to know hes in charge...he just said dont tell the media because he wants the police to know he is the one in charge and he has control..
im not a police investigator and no dont think im the freakin sniper for knowing all this..but i have grown up around cops all my life....i know some shit
oh and just to finish this off... WHO EVER THE HELL GOES AFTER THE CHILDREN OF AMERICA TRYING TO SHOOT/SNIPE/KILL WHATEVER
THEY SHOULD BE FUCKIN LOCKED UP AND/OR KILLED ..they have no right to live for going after children or senior citizens who would have no chance against an older person
i agree with kicker
Let me address this as well as updating.
There are plenty of states, especially down south where you can easily purchase a rifle. People hunt and thus, don't really need much to get one. Teenagers can have access to guns and you can get one at your local Kmart practically. As for how accurate, don't understimate someone who is determined. This guy, whoever he is, is a good shot. And it is not like it is that hard to shoot from far distances with the right amount of practice.
The main reason why no information is being given is because, the sniper is watching what they do and say. Thus, telling the media everything they know will only make it that much harder to catch him. He's already proven that he is listening when he took out that little kid.
Now for an update, he killed someone last night in a shopping center. One shot to the head. This time though, many people came forward and actually saw something. I'll let ya'll know of anything else.
no offense to neone..but
this cannot be just ANYONE ..i mean not everyone has access to a sniper rifle...and can just shoot anyone in the head. NO ONE can just pick up a gun and shoot someone from 500-1000 feet away..its not possible...
But if anyone has been watching the Today show or any other show in which that one guy is on that is "leading the investigation on the police side" he is an ASSHOLE..everyother question is No comment and I dont think we should release that information..that whole tarot card thing...the guy WANTS us to know hes in charge...he just said dont tell the media because he wants the police to know he is the one in charge and he has control..
im not a police investigator and no dont think im the freakin sniper for knowing all this..but i have grown up around cops all my life....i know some shit
oh and just to finish this off... WHO EVER THE HELL GOES AFTER THE CHILDREN OF AMERICA TRYING TO SHOOT/SNIPE/KILL WHATEVER
THEY SHOULD BE FUCKIN LOCKED UP AND/OR KILLED ..they have no right to live for going after children or senior citizens who would have no chance against an older person
i agree with kicker
Let me address this as well as updating.
There are plenty of states, especially down south where you can easily purchase a rifle. People hunt and thus, don't really need much to get one. Teenagers can have access to guns and you can get one at your local Kmart practically. As for how accurate, don't understimate someone who is determined. This guy, whoever he is, is a good shot. And it is not like it is that hard to shoot from far distances with the right amount of practice.
The main reason why no information is being given is because, the sniper is watching what they do and say. Thus, telling the media everything they know will only make it that much harder to catch him. He's already proven that he is listening when he took out that little kid.
Now for an update, he killed someone last night in a shopping center. One shot to the head. This time though, many people came forward and actually saw something. I'll let ya'll know of anything else.
ragt20
10-15-2002, 05:38 PM
appareantly the lastest victim worked for the FBI....though dunno wether it was just a coincedence or she was targeted specially.....
ragt20
10-16-2002, 07:57 AM
on the news today they mentioned that they have an actual eyewitness to the latest shooting.......
US officials say they are more confident of a breakthrough in their hunt for the serial sniper who has killed nine people in the Washington area.
For the first time since the shootings began two weeks ago, at least one witness actually saw the sniper open fire on his latest victim, investigators told the Washington Post newspaper.
Police are searching for a white van seen near the attacks
Witnesses have also provided at least partial licence plate numbers, as well as descriptions of the white or cream-coloured Chevrolet Astro van with a silver roof rack seen leaving the scene, which one eyewitness said had a broken tail-light.
"There was some additional information that we were able to get from last night's case, and I am confident that that information is going to lead us to an arrest," Fairfax County Police Chief Tom Manger said.
But the sniper continues to evade capture, and late on Tuesday the Pentagon agreed to a request from the FBI to provide manned, fixed-wing reconnaissance aircraft to help law enforcement agencies in the hunt.
'Dark-skinned'
check out the link for more further info
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2332151.stm
US officials say they are more confident of a breakthrough in their hunt for the serial sniper who has killed nine people in the Washington area.
For the first time since the shootings began two weeks ago, at least one witness actually saw the sniper open fire on his latest victim, investigators told the Washington Post newspaper.
Police are searching for a white van seen near the attacks
Witnesses have also provided at least partial licence plate numbers, as well as descriptions of the white or cream-coloured Chevrolet Astro van with a silver roof rack seen leaving the scene, which one eyewitness said had a broken tail-light.
"There was some additional information that we were able to get from last night's case, and I am confident that that information is going to lead us to an arrest," Fairfax County Police Chief Tom Manger said.
But the sniper continues to evade capture, and late on Tuesday the Pentagon agreed to a request from the FBI to provide manned, fixed-wing reconnaissance aircraft to help law enforcement agencies in the hunt.
'Dark-skinned'
check out the link for more further info
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2332151.stm
Menu dei Motori
10-16-2002, 09:21 AM
well i donīt know much about the american laws...
and i donīt like the death penalty but what this "man" (in my eyes he is no human any more)did, he should be electrocuted.
i feel with the victims and their families and friends.
how can a man do this.
you should do something with the weapon laws!
in germany nobody is allowed to keep a weapon with him.
i donīt want to say that we are better... we saw horrible things in "Erfurt", too... i donīt know if you have heard about that.
I hope the pollice will catch him soon
and i donīt like the death penalty but what this "man" (in my eyes he is no human any more)did, he should be electrocuted.
i feel with the victims and their families and friends.
how can a man do this.
you should do something with the weapon laws!
in germany nobody is allowed to keep a weapon with him.
i donīt want to say that we are better... we saw horrible things in "Erfurt", too... i donīt know if you have heard about that.
I hope the pollice will catch him soon
YogsVR4
10-16-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Menu dei Motori
well i donīt know much about the american laws...
and i donīt like the death penalty but what this "man" (in my eyes he is no human any more)did, he should be electrocuted.
i feel with the victims and their families and friends.
how can a man do this.
you should do something with the weapon laws!
in germany nobody is allowed to keep a weapon with him.
i donīt want to say that we are better... we saw horrible things in "Erfurt", too... i donīt know if you have heard about that.
I hope the pollice will catch him soon
I agree that he/they deserve the death penalty, but I'll argue about the weapon laws. But that can be another thread.
Hopefully the bastard(s) wont ellude the police/FBI for much longer.
well i donīt know much about the american laws...
and i donīt like the death penalty but what this "man" (in my eyes he is no human any more)did, he should be electrocuted.
i feel with the victims and their families and friends.
how can a man do this.
you should do something with the weapon laws!
in germany nobody is allowed to keep a weapon with him.
i donīt want to say that we are better... we saw horrible things in "Erfurt", too... i donīt know if you have heard about that.
I hope the pollice will catch him soon
I agree that he/they deserve the death penalty, but I'll argue about the weapon laws. But that can be another thread.
Hopefully the bastard(s) wont ellude the police/FBI for much longer.
higgimonster
10-16-2002, 10:45 AM
The 24hr news channel os on all day where I work so I get a good dose of the details on this. From looking at the precision of the shots and the shooters ability to evade police even in a very public situation leads me to believe that his guy has some training, possibly military or mabey other. But this training is going to make it very hard to find him. Basicaly, if he decided to stop shooting right now they would probably never find him.
About gun control in the US: I can drive over to Walmart right now and buy a shotgun for $200 with ammo just by showing my Drivers Liscense. There is almost no gun control here and getting it will be very, very hard. All the conservatives with their "Right to bear arms" bull shit. That was written in 1776 when the world was a completely different place and you had to protect your property yourself w/o law enfocement help. Nowadays that is not needed.
Well, before I go on too long I am going to wrap up.
About gun control in the US: I can drive over to Walmart right now and buy a shotgun for $200 with ammo just by showing my Drivers Liscense. There is almost no gun control here and getting it will be very, very hard. All the conservatives with their "Right to bear arms" bull shit. That was written in 1776 when the world was a completely different place and you had to protect your property yourself w/o law enfocement help. Nowadays that is not needed.
Well, before I go on too long I am going to wrap up.
Steel
10-16-2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by higgimonster
About gun control in the US: I can drive over to Walmart right now and buy a shotgun for $200 with ammo just by showing my Drivers Liscense. There is almost no gun control here and getting it will be very, very hard. All the conservatives with their "Right to bear arms" bull shit. That was written in 1776 when the world was a completely different place and you had to protect your property yourself w/o law enfocement help. Nowadays that is not needed.
Well, before I go on too long I am going to wrap up.
That's B.S. I'm breaking my freaking neck just to get my F.I.D. so that i can bring my rifle to the range. And do you think taht criminals will follow the law if we make any more new ones? hmm, I thought that by definition, criminals don't follow laws. And anyway, creating new gun laws won't help. There's already hundreds of them, but the stupid state governments (not massachusetts, trust me) don't enforce the laws!! So don't try to take MY rifle, because some other crazy asshole is misusing it. If he was a serial vehicular-manslaughterer (i.e. he was running over people with his car) do you think we should take all of the cars away from everyone? Or put severe limits on when and how long and how fast and for what purpose we can drive them? The fact is, is that there are THOUSANDS of RESPONSIBLE gun owners in the U.S. But nobody cares or acknowledges that fact. But just as soon as something goes wrong with some dude, we ALL suddenly becoming crazy extremists with an itchy trigger finger, or at least that's what the media says. And people believe them too. Sucks to have to pay the price, but people that choose not to have guns don't, so they can just complain all they want. Is it fair? IMO absolutley not. But if i try to share my feelings like this, i'm automatically labled as a right wing gun loving hick.
About gun control in the US: I can drive over to Walmart right now and buy a shotgun for $200 with ammo just by showing my Drivers Liscense. There is almost no gun control here and getting it will be very, very hard. All the conservatives with their "Right to bear arms" bull shit. That was written in 1776 when the world was a completely different place and you had to protect your property yourself w/o law enfocement help. Nowadays that is not needed.
Well, before I go on too long I am going to wrap up.
That's B.S. I'm breaking my freaking neck just to get my F.I.D. so that i can bring my rifle to the range. And do you think taht criminals will follow the law if we make any more new ones? hmm, I thought that by definition, criminals don't follow laws. And anyway, creating new gun laws won't help. There's already hundreds of them, but the stupid state governments (not massachusetts, trust me) don't enforce the laws!! So don't try to take MY rifle, because some other crazy asshole is misusing it. If he was a serial vehicular-manslaughterer (i.e. he was running over people with his car) do you think we should take all of the cars away from everyone? Or put severe limits on when and how long and how fast and for what purpose we can drive them? The fact is, is that there are THOUSANDS of RESPONSIBLE gun owners in the U.S. But nobody cares or acknowledges that fact. But just as soon as something goes wrong with some dude, we ALL suddenly becoming crazy extremists with an itchy trigger finger, or at least that's what the media says. And people believe them too. Sucks to have to pay the price, but people that choose not to have guns don't, so they can just complain all they want. Is it fair? IMO absolutley not. But if i try to share my feelings like this, i'm automatically labled as a right wing gun loving hick.
higgimonster
10-16-2002, 11:13 AM
steel:
I am definetly not asking to take guns away from everybody. There is no reason to. Gun Control would not have stopped this crime at all.
As far as the walmart thing goes: I was exagerating a bit, I have actually never bought a gun so I don't know the process but from what I can see at walmart it doesn't take much.
I am no expert and I am not the one to decide how to deal with the gun control issue and to be honest I am not really sure where I stand. I go back and forth (which is obvious if you compare this post with my previous one)
I am definetly not asking to take guns away from everybody. There is no reason to. Gun Control would not have stopped this crime at all.
As far as the walmart thing goes: I was exagerating a bit, I have actually never bought a gun so I don't know the process but from what I can see at walmart it doesn't take much.
I am no expert and I am not the one to decide how to deal with the gun control issue and to be honest I am not really sure where I stand. I go back and forth (which is obvious if you compare this post with my previous one)
Sham365
10-16-2002, 11:56 AM
when are they gonna catch this dude?
speediva
10-17-2002, 01:25 AM
This scares the living hell out of me. I have many friends in that general area, and the idea of losing one of them to some well-trained, rat-bastard of a marksman pisses me off. What's more is that, from the evidence that I have found, I believe this man to be well trained.
The whole Tarot card thing is out there, and definately doesn't fit my personal profile. I almost am led to suspect another person's foul play on that note. I haven't fully developed my idea yet as to whom it may be, but terrorist is not high on the list.
I just pray that my friends are safe, and that when this GDAH is caught he is shot first in both knees so he can't run, then shot in both shoulders so he can't crawl, then shot in the gut and left to die so he knows the pain of suffering.
The whole Tarot card thing is out there, and definately doesn't fit my personal profile. I almost am led to suspect another person's foul play on that note. I haven't fully developed my idea yet as to whom it may be, but terrorist is not high on the list.
I just pray that my friends are safe, and that when this GDAH is caught he is shot first in both knees so he can't run, then shot in both shoulders so he can't crawl, then shot in the gut and left to die so he knows the pain of suffering.
ci5ic
10-17-2002, 06:40 PM
You could never make this fucker suffer enough pain to equal the crushed spirits of the victims, their family, and their friends...
Justice will never be truly served unless there is a Hell for his soul to burn in eternally.
Justice will never be truly served unless there is a Hell for his soul to burn in eternally.
Spec2 Girl
10-17-2002, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by ci5ic
Justice will never be truly served unless there is a Hell for his soul to burn in eternally. Too true. I will never understand bastards like this. Makes me ashamed to be a human sometimes.
Justice will never be truly served unless there is a Hell for his soul to burn in eternally. Too true. I will never understand bastards like this. Makes me ashamed to be a human sometimes.
darkness
10-17-2002, 07:48 PM
put him in a room alone, no weapons.
then give me a bat and half an hour. he'll wish he was never born
then give me a bat and half an hour. he'll wish he was never born
taranaki
10-17-2002, 08:12 PM
There's a lot of talk of retribution in this thread.Not justice,but revenge.Nobody is asking why the guy is doing it,nobody is asking why it is so easy for him to do it,nobody is asking why the authorities aren't catching him.
Give me the man and his thoughts before you ask me to sit in judgement on him.Revenge is easy.Justice needs a considered approach.You can't tell me that killing people is wrong if that is the only punishment that you can offer for the crime.
Give me the man and his thoughts before you ask me to sit in judgement on him.Revenge is easy.Justice needs a considered approach.You can't tell me that killing people is wrong if that is the only punishment that you can offer for the crime.
darkness
10-17-2002, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by taranaki
There's a lot of talk of retribution in this thread.Not justice,but revenge.Nobody is asking why the guy is doing it,nobody is asking why it is so easy for him to do it,nobody is asking why the authorities aren't catching him.
Give me the man and his thoughts before you ask me to sit in judgement on him.Revenge is easy.Justice needs a considered approach.You can't tell me that killing people is wrong if that is the only punishment that you can offer for the crime.
I agree with your statement Mr T. and yes they should figure out why he's doing it. I would not be surprised if he doesn't really have reason other than he's bored, or just a twisted f*ck.
a couple guys at the high school i went to in california, built pipe bombs because they were bored.
To me the bastard is a coward. and I believe in an eye for an eye. make the prick suffer because all he had to do was pull the trigger.
There's a lot of talk of retribution in this thread.Not justice,but revenge.Nobody is asking why the guy is doing it,nobody is asking why it is so easy for him to do it,nobody is asking why the authorities aren't catching him.
Give me the man and his thoughts before you ask me to sit in judgement on him.Revenge is easy.Justice needs a considered approach.You can't tell me that killing people is wrong if that is the only punishment that you can offer for the crime.
I agree with your statement Mr T. and yes they should figure out why he's doing it. I would not be surprised if he doesn't really have reason other than he's bored, or just a twisted f*ck.
a couple guys at the high school i went to in california, built pipe bombs because they were bored.
To me the bastard is a coward. and I believe in an eye for an eye. make the prick suffer because all he had to do was pull the trigger.
ci5ic
10-17-2002, 08:56 PM
Who fucking cares why he's doing it?
No matter what his answer is, there's no justification for it. Even if he's just mental or whatever, he's still guilty.
No matter what his answer is, there's no justification for it. Even if he's just mental or whatever, he's still guilty.
replicant_008
10-17-2002, 09:33 PM
I can understand that people are fearful and upset about this coward. However, we shouldn't forget even in this dark hour that some of our basic rights include the right for justice. And that's justice for those who have been killed innocently and for anyone who is suspected of the crime.
He/she has the right to justice. This includes the right to a fair trial, due process, fair representation and access to qualified defence. And then if found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a court of appropriate jurisdiction - then the applicable penalties under the applicable laws and the rights to appeal should apply.
We elect legislators to pass laws that we agree with - laws that we consider fair and just - and for penalties that fit the crime. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact and that NO ONE IS GUILTY UNTIL THEY ARE PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
If he/she is convicted of these heinous crimes by a court of competent jurisdiction then the appropriate state and federal laws will apply. If he/she or others are sentenced to capital punishment by those laws, so be it - that is what the elected legislature has so decreed.
The last thing we need is a kangaroo court or vigilantes or trial by media. This defeats the process of true justice. When he/she or them are caught, let them be tried in a fair court and then face the punishments that society has decreed fit the crime.
Remember innocent people have been acquited on appeal, not everyone charged is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and mistakes happen. I'd rather we took time and made sure we don't ruin another innocent person's life in our eagerness for retribution.
Okay?
He/she has the right to justice. This includes the right to a fair trial, due process, fair representation and access to qualified defence. And then if found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a court of appropriate jurisdiction - then the applicable penalties under the applicable laws and the rights to appeal should apply.
We elect legislators to pass laws that we agree with - laws that we consider fair and just - and for penalties that fit the crime. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact and that NO ONE IS GUILTY UNTIL THEY ARE PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
If he/she is convicted of these heinous crimes by a court of competent jurisdiction then the appropriate state and federal laws will apply. If he/she or others are sentenced to capital punishment by those laws, so be it - that is what the elected legislature has so decreed.
The last thing we need is a kangaroo court or vigilantes or trial by media. This defeats the process of true justice. When he/she or them are caught, let them be tried in a fair court and then face the punishments that society has decreed fit the crime.
Remember innocent people have been acquited on appeal, not everyone charged is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and mistakes happen. I'd rather we took time and made sure we don't ruin another innocent person's life in our eagerness for retribution.
Okay?
Menu dei Motori
10-18-2002, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by darkness
. I would not be surprised if he doesn't really have reason other than he's bored, or just a twisted f*ck.
a couple guys at the high school i went to in california, built pipe bombs because they were bored.
.
how crazy must this asshole be?
heīs guilty and he MUSt be punished by law
not like some of you with a bat or sth else
. I would not be surprised if he doesn't really have reason other than he's bored, or just a twisted f*ck.
a couple guys at the high school i went to in california, built pipe bombs because they were bored.
.
how crazy must this asshole be?
heīs guilty and he MUSt be punished by law
not like some of you with a bat or sth else
ragt20
10-21-2002, 07:54 AM
update on this...looks like hes shot another person this weekend....
Police find 'sniper message'
Police say they received a message at the scene
Police believe the sniper who has killed nine people in the Washington area may have left them a message at the scene of a shooting on Saturday.
In a cryptic statement, police chief Charles Moose said: "To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa (restaurant) last night. You gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk with you. Call us at the number you provided."
To the person who left the message, it should make complete sense
Police spokesman Joyce Utter
Schools in the Ashland and Richmond areas of Virginia were closed on Monday "based on the volume of parent and community concern", officials said.
About 200,000 students are affected.
Police sources told American journalists they think it was the sniper who left them the message at the restaurant in Ashland, where a man was shot and seriously wounded.
A strained-looking Chief Moose asked the media to carry his appeal to the mystery person "clearly and carry it often".
He refused to take questions from reporters and police spokeswoman Joyce Utter, interviewed directly afterwards, gave no new details.
Panic spreads
"To the person who left the message, it should make complete sense. That is the only person Chief Moose wants to talk to," officer Utter said.
Chief Police Moose did not take questions at the news conference
Saturday's attack has still not been conclusively linked to the sniper who has spread panic in the states of Virginia, Maryland and the capital itself, but police said they were working on the assumption that the attacks were linked.
Earlier in the inquiry, police condemned the media for reporting leaked information about a message possibly left by the sniper.
Near a Maryland school where a boy was shot and wounded on 7 October, a tarot card was reportedly found with the words: "Dear Policeman, I am God."
The Richmond Times-Dispatch newspaper said police sources at the scene of the latest shooting had indicated that more than one tarot card had been found.
It also said that police were investigating the theory that the gunman may have used a bicycle in the Ashland attack and carried his gun in a backpack.
After previous shootings, police said they were looking for a white van with a ladder rack.
Single bullet
The unidentified victim of Saturday's attack is critically ill in hospital but expected to survive.
He was hit by a single shot to the abdomen as he left the Ponderosa diner with his wife in Ashland, 70 miles (110 kilometres) south of Washington.
Surgeons were only able to remove the bullet from his body late on Sunday - it has been sent for tests.
So far all the attacks positively linked to the sniper have involved a single bullet from a high-powered rifle.
Confirmed sniper attacks
2-3 Oct - Five people killed in Montgomery County, Maryland
3 Oct - Man killed in Washington DC
4 Oct - Woman injured in Fredericksburg, Virginia
7 Oct - Boy injured in Prince George's County, Maryland
9 Oct - Man killed in Manassas, Virginia
11 Oct - Man killed in Fredericksburg, Virginia
14 Oct - Woman killed in Falls Church, Virginia
If confirmed, the shooting will be the sniper's 12th attack since 2 October.
The sniper last struck on 14 October, when he killed a 47-year-old woman in the car park of a DIY shop in Virginia. Her funeral was due to be held on Monday, Reuters news agency reported.
Some of the victims have been shot while filling their cars with petrol, and some drivers are now reportedly paying $25 a time to have their cars refuelled for them.
If Saturday's attack is definitively linked to the sniper, it will be the first such attack on a weekend and the furthest yet from the US capital.
Police find 'sniper message'
Police say they received a message at the scene
Police believe the sniper who has killed nine people in the Washington area may have left them a message at the scene of a shooting on Saturday.
In a cryptic statement, police chief Charles Moose said: "To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa (restaurant) last night. You gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk with you. Call us at the number you provided."
To the person who left the message, it should make complete sense
Police spokesman Joyce Utter
Schools in the Ashland and Richmond areas of Virginia were closed on Monday "based on the volume of parent and community concern", officials said.
About 200,000 students are affected.
Police sources told American journalists they think it was the sniper who left them the message at the restaurant in Ashland, where a man was shot and seriously wounded.
A strained-looking Chief Moose asked the media to carry his appeal to the mystery person "clearly and carry it often".
He refused to take questions from reporters and police spokeswoman Joyce Utter, interviewed directly afterwards, gave no new details.
Panic spreads
"To the person who left the message, it should make complete sense. That is the only person Chief Moose wants to talk to," officer Utter said.
Chief Police Moose did not take questions at the news conference
Saturday's attack has still not been conclusively linked to the sniper who has spread panic in the states of Virginia, Maryland and the capital itself, but police said they were working on the assumption that the attacks were linked.
Earlier in the inquiry, police condemned the media for reporting leaked information about a message possibly left by the sniper.
Near a Maryland school where a boy was shot and wounded on 7 October, a tarot card was reportedly found with the words: "Dear Policeman, I am God."
The Richmond Times-Dispatch newspaper said police sources at the scene of the latest shooting had indicated that more than one tarot card had been found.
It also said that police were investigating the theory that the gunman may have used a bicycle in the Ashland attack and carried his gun in a backpack.
After previous shootings, police said they were looking for a white van with a ladder rack.
Single bullet
The unidentified victim of Saturday's attack is critically ill in hospital but expected to survive.
He was hit by a single shot to the abdomen as he left the Ponderosa diner with his wife in Ashland, 70 miles (110 kilometres) south of Washington.
Surgeons were only able to remove the bullet from his body late on Sunday - it has been sent for tests.
So far all the attacks positively linked to the sniper have involved a single bullet from a high-powered rifle.
Confirmed sniper attacks
2-3 Oct - Five people killed in Montgomery County, Maryland
3 Oct - Man killed in Washington DC
4 Oct - Woman injured in Fredericksburg, Virginia
7 Oct - Boy injured in Prince George's County, Maryland
9 Oct - Man killed in Manassas, Virginia
11 Oct - Man killed in Fredericksburg, Virginia
14 Oct - Woman killed in Falls Church, Virginia
If confirmed, the shooting will be the sniper's 12th attack since 2 October.
The sniper last struck on 14 October, when he killed a 47-year-old woman in the car park of a DIY shop in Virginia. Her funeral was due to be held on Monday, Reuters news agency reported.
Some of the victims have been shot while filling their cars with petrol, and some drivers are now reportedly paying $25 a time to have their cars refuelled for them.
If Saturday's attack is definitively linked to the sniper, it will be the first such attack on a weekend and the furthest yet from the US capital.
YogsVR4
10-21-2002, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by replicant_008
I can understand that people are fearful and upset about this coward. However, we shouldn't forget even in this dark hour that some of our basic rights include the right for justice. And that's justice for those who have been killed innocently and for anyone who is suspected of the crime.
The only applicable justice is to strap his ass to a rope at the neck and let any of the vicitims (alive ones) and their familys have free swings with a baseball bat.
He/she has the right to justice. This includes the right to a fair trial, due process, fair representation and access to qualified defence. And then if found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a court of appropriate jurisdiction - then the applicable penalties under the applicable laws and the rights to appeal should apply.
Sure they do. They need to tried and found guilty. Nobody is saying they shouldn't be. What we are saying is that the punishment should be as painful and excruciating as imaginable.
We elect legislators to pass laws that we agree with - laws that we consider fair and just - and for penalties that fit the crime. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact and that NO ONE IS GUILTY UNTIL THEY ARE PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
Whos talking about punishment for an individual who hasn't been convicted yet? Name a name. I haven't heard one. Clearly someone is doing this and once that person is CONVICTED then let the pain begin.
If he/she is convicted of these heinous crimes by a court of competent jurisdiction then the appropriate state and federal laws will apply. If he/she or others are sentenced to capital punishment by those laws, so be it - that is what the elected legislature has so decreed.
Sorry, but duh. I dont know why you're so hung up on proving guilt. Someone is guilty. Be concerned that the right person is convicted of the crime. There is no name to that person yet so we can talk about punishment and retribution (yes I chose that word specifically) right now.
The last thing we need is a kangaroo court or vigilantes or trial by media. This defeats the process of true justice. When he/she or them are caught, let them be tried in a fair court and then face the punishments that society has decreed fit the crime.
See above duh.
Remember innocent people have been acquited on appeal, not everyone charged is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and mistakes happen. I'd rather we took time and made sure we don't ruin another innocent person's life in our eagerness for retribution.
Above duh once again. What person are you referring to? The one who hasn't been caught yet? Pretty ridicules to be concerned with wrongly convicting someone who hasnt been apprehended yet..
I can understand that people are fearful and upset about this coward. However, we shouldn't forget even in this dark hour that some of our basic rights include the right for justice. And that's justice for those who have been killed innocently and for anyone who is suspected of the crime.
The only applicable justice is to strap his ass to a rope at the neck and let any of the vicitims (alive ones) and their familys have free swings with a baseball bat.
He/she has the right to justice. This includes the right to a fair trial, due process, fair representation and access to qualified defence. And then if found guilty beyond reasonable doubt by a court of appropriate jurisdiction - then the applicable penalties under the applicable laws and the rights to appeal should apply.
Sure they do. They need to tried and found guilty. Nobody is saying they shouldn't be. What we are saying is that the punishment should be as painful and excruciating as imaginable.
We elect legislators to pass laws that we agree with - laws that we consider fair and just - and for penalties that fit the crime. We shouldn't lose sight of that fact and that NO ONE IS GUILTY UNTIL THEY ARE PROVEN GUILTY BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT.
Whos talking about punishment for an individual who hasn't been convicted yet? Name a name. I haven't heard one. Clearly someone is doing this and once that person is CONVICTED then let the pain begin.
If he/she is convicted of these heinous crimes by a court of competent jurisdiction then the appropriate state and federal laws will apply. If he/she or others are sentenced to capital punishment by those laws, so be it - that is what the elected legislature has so decreed.
Sorry, but duh. I dont know why you're so hung up on proving guilt. Someone is guilty. Be concerned that the right person is convicted of the crime. There is no name to that person yet so we can talk about punishment and retribution (yes I chose that word specifically) right now.
The last thing we need is a kangaroo court or vigilantes or trial by media. This defeats the process of true justice. When he/she or them are caught, let them be tried in a fair court and then face the punishments that society has decreed fit the crime.
See above duh.
Remember innocent people have been acquited on appeal, not everyone charged is found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and mistakes happen. I'd rather we took time and made sure we don't ruin another innocent person's life in our eagerness for retribution.
Above duh once again. What person are you referring to? The one who hasn't been caught yet? Pretty ridicules to be concerned with wrongly convicting someone who hasnt been apprehended yet..
moondog
10-21-2002, 10:00 PM
Just to reiterate what a couple of people have already said: no matter what anyone does to the person or persons who were responsible for these appalling attacks, it won't make it better. Personally, I think this kind of person is not the sort of person the rest of us want sharing our air, but that's not based on revenge or anger; it's just quite simply we do not need people like that alive and sharing the earth with us. However, nothing is gained by brutality directed at them. The victims' wounds aren't healed, the families don't get their loved ones back. There is no point.
Just to look at another point; whether this guy is "crazy". My professional opinion is that he/they is/are not. This is not the sort of crime that someone who is acutely mentally ill commits. The rare occasions when someone is violent on the basis of a mental illness are nothing like this. They usually involve someone close to the person, and are not this organised.
Just to look at another point; whether this guy is "crazy". My professional opinion is that he/they is/are not. This is not the sort of crime that someone who is acutely mentally ill commits. The rare occasions when someone is violent on the basis of a mental illness are nothing like this. They usually involve someone close to the person, and are not this organised.
YogsVR4
10-21-2002, 10:13 PM
Actually I'd argue about brutality not helping. While some people it wouldn't help, I can honestly say if something like this happened to my family, I would feel better hearing the bastard scream for mercy as he's slowly lowered into a gator tank.
speediva
10-21-2002, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by YogsVR4
Actually I'd argue about brutality not helping. While some people it wouldn't help, I can honestly say if something like this happened to my family, I would feel better hearing the bastard scream for mercy as he's slowly lowered into a gator tank.
I'm with Yogs' on this one (I know, *gasp* for tangie agrees on something with Yogs :p)
This isn't even remotely close to the intensity for which I feel against the sniper, but I'm at a lack for any other analogy. Ever had a sibling or a friend steal a belonging??? Ever decide to steal something equally valuable of theirs in return??? Didn't you feel good knowing that justice was paid in part? Now which scenario makes you feel better: 1)Tell on them and have some adult say "Now, now Johnny, give it back." 2)Take something of theirs so they know how it feels, and get it back so that they suffered, too. I can tell you that you can feel like a bad person for doing the "eye for an eye" thing, but the good outweighs the bad, IMHO.
Actually I'd argue about brutality not helping. While some people it wouldn't help, I can honestly say if something like this happened to my family, I would feel better hearing the bastard scream for mercy as he's slowly lowered into a gator tank.
I'm with Yogs' on this one (I know, *gasp* for tangie agrees on something with Yogs :p)
This isn't even remotely close to the intensity for which I feel against the sniper, but I'm at a lack for any other analogy. Ever had a sibling or a friend steal a belonging??? Ever decide to steal something equally valuable of theirs in return??? Didn't you feel good knowing that justice was paid in part? Now which scenario makes you feel better: 1)Tell on them and have some adult say "Now, now Johnny, give it back." 2)Take something of theirs so they know how it feels, and get it back so that they suffered, too. I can tell you that you can feel like a bad person for doing the "eye for an eye" thing, but the good outweighs the bad, IMHO.
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