Not cranking.

[NMRAcer]

This seems to be a common issue so I have attempted a number of the suggested solutions.

Problem:
- Key to on, power to appropriate functions.
- Key to start, no crank, no click.

Attempted Solutions:
- All fuses and relays are good.
- Battery is free of corrosion.
- Replaced neutral safety switch.

There is currently no power going to the starter solenoid so I assume the problem is either the starter switch itself or the neutral switch. Since I changed the neutral switch I am now assuming the problem is with the starter switch. However, I only just now noticed the PRNDL thread within the Tips & Maintenance section which suggests I rotate the switch housing in order to get a connection or something to that effect.

Based on my simple description, would it be more appropriate to attempt the rotation procedure or pull the steering column apart and check the starter switch?

[grandprixgtx00]

year, make, model, mileage?

i would check the positive battery cable that goes down to the starter to start with.

i would assume you have had the battery checked to make sure cranking volts are where they should be?

[NMRAcer]

1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP (w/3.8?) 55k miles

There is plenty of juice getting to the solenoid from the battery but have not checked the battery. I have started it a few times by jumping the starter solenoid with a screwdriver just to get it from place to place. As I said though, while the key is in the start position there is no juice getting to the signal wire connection at the solenoid.

Now that I review I suppose I wasn't very clear with my explanation. The power wire has a good connection but I get no signal from the key. This led me to believe the neutral safety switch was inop. It would not start with a battery charger attached so I would not think electricity would be a limiting problem.

If I can get around to it, I'll try loosening the bolts and jiggle the safety switch back and forth. Currently the car does not start even if I move the shifter between all gears.

[Ralph123]

Try putting your finger on the starter relay in the fuse box and have someone try and start the car. You should feel/hear a click from the relay, if not, check for voltage at the relay. No voltage would indicate a bad ignition switch. If you have voltage your relay is bad.

[tblake]

So you have 12 volts at the solonoid wire when someone cranks the starter?

When you installed the PRNDL switch, did you adjust it? Do your backup lights come on when you put the car into reverse?

I would take the battery out and have it load tested.

[NMRAcer]

All fuses and relays are operational and the main ignition relay clicks when the switch is turned to start.

There were no adjustments made to the PRNDL switch when installed and the backup lights work as intended.

I pulled the battery and will have it tested and will get back with an update afterward.

[NMRAcer]

The battery was tested and deemed in good condition.

So it's not the PRNDL (neutral safety) switch, the battery, or the fuses and relays. Obviously I could check the starter but as I mentioned at the beginning, I could successfully jump the solenoid with a screwdriver and get the car to start so I doubt there's anything wrong with it.

How can I check whether the signal is leaving the key/start switch other than tearing the steering column apart?

[Mickey#1]

PM me with an email address if you want a wiring diagram. There's only the ignition switch & the park/neutral safety switch to get power to small wire on the solenoid. You should have 12 volts at the yellow wire going to the park/neutral switch with the key turned to start.

If you don't have 12 volts then the ignition switch is bad or the yellow wire is broken somewhere between the ign switch & P/N switch.

If you do have 12 volts then you need to check for 12 volts at the purple wire (key turned to start) where it leaves the P/N switch.
If you don't have 12 volts then the switch is bad or misadjusted.
If you have 12 volts then the purple wire is broken between the P/N switch & starter solenoid.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by Mickey#1

There's only the ignition switch & the park/neutral safety switch to get power to small wire on the solenoid.

The wiring diagrams especially GM have a discrepancy. There is a starter solenoid relay or ignition main relay and fuse in the main engine compartment fuse box.

Therefore be careful using solely schematics to troubleshoot an issue versus what is actually installed and used circuitry wise on this particular year and model Grand Prix.

[Mickey#1]

Are you saying that it's a known fact that GM left out a relay on the 97 GP starter wiring diagrams?

I was under the impression that the starter relay was just used so the security system could disable the starter & that the GP's didn't use the VATS system.

I'm using wiring diagrams that can be downloaded online from the local library. They show no relay for 97 & 98 models & then Pontiac started using a 'crank relay' on the 99 models. I believe these would no longer engage the starter if the engine was already running.

Edit - Even if an error was made on the wiring diagrams, I believe the yellow & purple wire are still what need to be checked at the park/neutral switch.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by Mickey#1

Are you saying that it's a known fact that GM left out a relay on the 97 GP starter wiring diagrams?

Yup and add that to '99 and up. I have the Helm GM Factory Service Manuals and the expensive $400 GM Service Manual on CD bought used for '97-'98 Grand Prix models. The CD version appears to be accurate.

Now for 1999 and up for example in the 1999 paper GM Service Manual no relay is shown in the circuit diagram but there is one physically in the circuit.

On the GM CD version the starter and ignition circuits shows a crank relay along with the transmission range switch aka park/neutral switch and PCM enable. Also, the fuse and relay block diagrams show a relay.

Your assumption is correct for '97-'98 that there is no Passlock/Passkey 2 or PK3 VATS Immobilizer system like other GM "W" body cars.

Send me a PM with the link to your source. Is this a free service or subscription? Many of the free on-line sources are violating U.S. copyright laws and GM's copyright by having that info posted. I am aware of the one from the library in Ohio?

[Scrapper]

do you have a fusable link running to your starter? and have you taken starter off and checked it with battery charger? if it works that way the yes you have a broken down wire i would say running down your colum? one more thing do you have the vats alarm system?

[Scrapper]

i just red back and i see another guy ask about the vats my bad.

[NMRAcer]

Well I feel like an idiot.

Turns out the previous owner had installed some weird sort of security system which cut the yellow start signal wire with a relay. All of my frustration and $$ could have been saved by simply removing the trim from beneath the steering column!

Thanks to everyone for all of your help! Ultimately it was testing the yellow wire for power that made me pull my head out and look beneath the dash.

[Mickey#1]

Glad to hear to were able to get it fixed. It's always good to know we were some help even if it's just pointing someone in the right direction.