Panoz 211 @ CMP since motor swap

[Panoz26]

Since some of you asked for feedback, I thought I'd share my experience.

The LS motor in the car is a tremendous difference - the torque, HP and Hoosier Race Slicks make quite the combination -- the car feels wonderful, tons of power and torque, rear end plants quite well out of the corners for very nice acceleration - very impressed with this aspect.

The grip on the slicks was fun for the short runs I did.

Manual rack - while this will take some getting used to, the turning force was not as bad as I expected, more time will tell, but I did like the overall road feel with the manual rack - I felt a little more like I was one with the car - but, again, will need a few more events to sort out some play issues with the knuckles.

The Panoz, due to it's size, it's a tad deceiving when it comes to speed perception - the TraqMate GPS Speedometer reflected 137 on the short back straight at CMP and honestly I still felt slow. Eric was 100% Accurate with his view of new braking zones, etc - this will be a fun learning experience - so, new car, new year - all about learning all over again.

Ill keep you posted as the build/re-builds continue - a minor mis-hap this weekend will have me delayed for a few months, but some new plans should provide better results.

Hope everyone is doing well and best of luck as your season starts.

Devin

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

Since some of you asked for feedback, I thought I'd share my experience.

The LS motor in the car is a tremendous difference - the torque, HP and Hoosier Race Slicks make quite the combination -- the car feels wonderful, tons of power and torque, rear end plants quite well out of the corners for very nice acceleration - very impressed with this aspect.

The grip on the slicks was fun for the short runs I did.

Manual rack - while this will take some getting used to, the turning force was not as bad as I expected, more time will tell, but I did like the overall road feel with the manual rack - I felt a little more like I was one with the car - but, again, will need a few more events to sort out some play issues with the knuckles.

The Panoz, due to it's size, it's a tad deceiving when it comes to speed perception - the TraqMate GPS Speedometer reflected 137 on the short back straight at CMP and honestly I still felt slow. Eric was 100% Accurate with his view of new braking zones, etc - this will be a fun learning experience - so, new car, new year - all about learning all over again.

Ill keep you posted as the build/re-builds continue - a minor mis-hap this weekend will have me delayed for a few months, but some new plans should provide better results.

Hope everyone is doing well and best of luck as your season starts.

Devin

Nice one Devin, great to hear that you had fun with the new setup. Trust the mishap was not to serious and did not involve bodily injury. What size Hoosier slicks are you running and what do you pay for these over there in US$?

Kel.

[eric1h]

137mph is COOKING for CMP on that back straight! I heard about the "mishap" I still have some things at the garage that may help.

It is a totally different car but will be lightening fast when they are all sorted out!

[Blue Streak 21]

Good to hear that the change to manual steering is working well. I like the fact that it doesn't take too much effort and has nice feedback. I'm considering the same modification to save a little weight and improve feel.

Did you use a manual rack from a Mustang? What ratio?

[eric1h]

it's a Unisteer 18:1 ratio. it did require having having some custom rod couplers made because the inner tie rods have a different thread pattern.length, but an hour long trip to advance, napa or autozone and you may be able to find a set that works with some minor modifications.

[Blue Streak 21]

Originally Posted by eric1h

it's a Unisteer 18:1 ratio. it did require having having some custom rod couplers made because the inner tie rods have a different thread pattern.length, but an hour long trip to advance, napa or autozone and you may be able to find a set that works with some minor modifications.

Thanks. I'll go check out the Unisteer online.

[Panoz26]

Kel, yea, the mishap was the ole too common oil starvation on the long right hand sweepers - #3 is toast - will know more when I get the "energy" to get engine out and start the tear down. But, she was fun indeed.

Eric - it was amazing - I don't think Ive been that fast on such a short stretch - braking was a little hairy - I thought the first puff of oil smoke off the exhaust was actually front tire lock up....but, obviously that was not it.....

damn fun.
Devin

[Panoz26]

Kel, the hoosiers are 285/640 r18's -- I purchased a set of barely used scrubs to get a feel for them - I do like them - right there with the pirelli's...

75.00 per tire for the used one's.
275.00 per tire new.

Devin

[eric1h]

Originally Posted by Panoz26

Kel, yea, the mishap was the ole too common oil starvation on the long right hand sweepers - #3 is toast - will know more when I get the "energy" to get engine out and start the tear down. But, she was fun indeed.

Eric - it was amazing - I don't think Ive been that fast on such a short stretch - braking was a little hairy - I thought the first puff of oil smoke off the exhaust was actually front tire lock up....but, obviously that was not it.....

damn fun.
Devin

You HAD to have been low on oil to start with, although LS1s are know for oiling problems in hard turns, i doubt it was enough to blow the motor the second session out. Time for an accusump though I think. Also, if you pull apart the motor and rebuild, drill out the lifter trays to allow the oil to flow back down into the block, the oil can get locked up top in the rocker section of theheads and lead to starvation down low.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by eric1h

You HAD to have been low on oil to start with, although LS1s are know for oiling problems in hard turns, i doubt it was enough to blow the motor the second session out. Time for an accusump though I think. Also, if you pull apart the motor and rebuild, drill out the lifter trays to allow the oil to flow back down into the block, the oil can get locked up top in the rocker section of theheads and lead to starvation down low.

Devin, sad to hear about the engine drama's. There are a ton of LS1 powered cars here (Holden Commodores) that regularly run at my local track. A lot of them have ended up with ventilated blocks due to bearing failure from oil starvation.

Eric makes some good points around oil volume to top end and return ability as well as the accusump side of things. If you have the budget and will be keeping the car for some time, go for a simple dry sump set up as this is the best soultion to the problem.

I have been very wary of running the wet sump in a what is a reasonable chassis set up. I am getting away with this by running DOT's (required in the endurance series that I run in) and not pulling high rpm - max of 5800. My experience with wet sumps is that it all turns pear shaped as you increase rpm up over 6000 - of course this will vary by engine/sump design. My last race car was fine to 6200rpm with a wet sump but there after the oil pressure dropped like a stone. Tried a number of wet sump combinations and went to dry sump............problem solved started turning it up over 7000rpm.

Devin, trust the crank and rods are salvageable.

Kel.

[Panoz26]

i plan to pull the engine over the next week or so, Ill post up pics of the damage after I get the top and bottom covers removed - should be interesting.

Kel, dry sump is where my head is at the moment - all pending what the inside looks like - if it's ugly, Ill make someone a hell of a deal on a sweet chassis/body, trailer and tow vehicle.

later for now
Devin

[Dawgfan]

Hope the engine is not all that bad. I get my GTS car this week and plan on running the NASA event in two weekends. How much difference will I see in the GTS veruses the old WC/4.6 car?

[jmimac351]

Kel, what do you think is the best way to go for dry sump? Any thoughts about pan, tank manufacturers relative to price and quality?

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Kel, what do you think is the best way to go for dry sump? Any thoughts about pan, tank manufacturers relative to price and quality?

Jim, I built my own pan for the last dry sumped car I had (1976 A9X Holden Torana Hatchback) as there were no pans commercially available that I liked. Was very easy to make and saved a bunch of $$. I used a Patterson (not Peterson) tank and a Moroso 4 stage pump. I also used an Oberg screen filter which I highly recommend.

For a race engine that will pull some reasonable rpm (say 7000+) I would always go with a 4 stage setup and scavenge the valley of the block (i.e. 1 scavenge line to the valley and x 2 to the pan). I think that it is also mandatory to put screen filters on all scavenge lines - unless you dont want to keep your pump for long. It is to easy to have some weld shale from the pan or a stray engine bit go through the pump and wreck it, closely followed by your engine.

I dont know what dry sump bits cost in the States but what I would do if I lived over there would be to buy a good used complete setup out of a NASCAR or similar and adapt this to the Panoz. I purchased a 2nd hand system out of the States for the Torana and paid something like US$500 for the complete system described above (no pan). I would have spent an additional $3,000 fitting the system up. You wont get much change out of US$2 - 4k I would expect to do justice to a good system.

For those with LS1's, Harrop in Australia make the best dry sump pan that I have seen for these engines. It is quite trick in the way it also mounts the pump as I recall. Unsure of cost or fitment in our chassis.

Other thing to think about with dry sump is that it takes some time and testing to get them set up right. Basics like crank seals to manage vacuum level, correct pump drive speed, priming setup, oil level, warm up time, breather system etc can take a bit of sussing and fiddling. First time on the track at the "recommended oil tank level" I lost control of the car as it spewed a liter or more of oil out of the catch can and onto the front tyres..............nice one, more grey hairs!! Adjusting the oil level took care of that but not an experience you want to have with a pack of race cars around you. Testing a new system at race speed is essential. I also ended up fitting an air/oil seperator to that system between the oil tank and the catch can as the Holden 5.0 V8 engine I was working with was a big breather at high rpm. This made the system hum in the end.

Can get more specific if desired Jim but the above are high level thoughts.

Kel.

[Panoz26]

If am not mistaken, Brian's Dad has a 3 stage dry sump pump, 4 Gallon Peterson Dry Sump tank on his GTS....