got power, but no idiot lights.

[danman47]

car stalled on freeway, had towed to my place, when it stalled it conked out on a street before the freeway and the lights on the dash blinked rapidly, also the door locks locked then unlocked rapidly, then it stalled. Started it back up and proceded to get on freeway, where it stalled again.
Battery less than 6mos. old is at 12.8v alternator less than 2 yrs old is good, tried a control module from the junkyard still nothing.

its a 1994 grand prix 3.1L
checked as best I could for any wiring shorts, battery terminals are on nice and tight.
I get nothing on the dash when i turn key on, I do however get the courtesy lights.
IS It the TIMING BELT, I've never had one go out on me, but would it be doing this if the timing belt is broken?

Checked all fuses, everywhere I could and they are all good.

This is my daily commuter so any help or insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[tblake]

Your car has a timing chain, which can still fail on occasion, usually is good for the life of the motor.

Will the starter crank when the key is turned to start?

[danman47]

Yep, starter cranks just fine, I cannot hear the fuel pump initialize and the dash is completely dead, however i do get the courtesy lights.

Is there a main wiring harness that could be the culprit? I dont think things are initializing properly, because when you put your key in you get nothing, maybe its the main wiring harness, if so how easy is it to replace?

[tblake]

Sounds like a bad ignition switch to me.

[danman47]

You mean the ignition control module underneath the coils?

Just did a search on autozones site and the picture they have for the ignition switch is somewhere underneath the dash, maybe near the steering column, as I do not know where it is located? Does it mount near the fuse for the ignition?

[tblake]

Check all your fuses, especially the big ones for the ignition system. Look for power going to them also with a test light or DVOM.

And no, the ignition module and ignition switch are two different items. Which reminds me, do you have spark from the coils?

The Ignition switch I am talking about is in the steering column. I will see if I can find a write-up on replacement for you.

Have you noticed any puffs or smells of smoke recently from inside of your car?

[tblake]

here is a write-up for 97-03 GP's, I cannot find one for prior years, but this gives you an idea.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=653340

[danman47]

I will have to check the fuse with a voltmeter. as well as check for spark at the coils (How do i do that?)

In my honest opinion the electrical problem is kind of distinctive which would lead me to believe faulty ignition switch on the steering column. just the way the lights flickered and when I went to start the car the dash lights came on normally, then now all of a sudden they dont come on period when trying to crank the car.

the ignition switch is a cheap enough of a fix to try.

Thanks

[danman47]

oh and i havent smelled any burned electronics smell from inside the car...whats an easy way to check for spark? Also when Im checking for voltage on the fuse, i should have key in on position?

[danman47]

ok so a little background on how i start the car. I wired a push button start directly to the starter and it has worked for the better part of a year. ( I had to do this as i had a shop install a new keylock cylinder, but that failed and it was out of their warranty to fix it) SO I got the resistance of key pellet and pulled the Orng/wht wires from the keylock cylinder and at that connection installed the resistor fix and it has worked flawlessly till now.

I just searched the forums for ignition switch and read this:

Wiring diagram has been sent. As a temporary fix you could install a push button switch inside the car. Remove the small purple wire from the starter & connect the switch wires between the purple wire & S terminal. To start the engine you'll have to press the push button & turn the key to start at the same time.

If the temporary fix cures the problem then you need to figure out if the ignition or park/neutral switch is bad.

I think that purple wire maybe needed to come off when i installed my pushbutton start fix, thus this may have shorted out the ignition switch now, so if I go to put in a new ignition switch I will have to take off that little purple wire on the starter correct?

[tblake]

The ignition switch is inside the steering column. The fact that you had to start your car with a push button also makes me wonder if this is also tied to a bad ignition switch.

To check for spark at the coils, just remove both plug wires on a single coil, then have an assisstant crank it for a few seconds, you should see spark jumping accross the gap between the exposed coil terminals. If you have no spark, I would wonder if your ignition system is getting power. Does your fuel pump run when you turn your key to on?

[danman47]

no fuel pump noise whatsoever, no headlights or dash lights, just the little courtesy bulbs underneath.

Wondering if the inhibitor in the ignition switch is the culprit...
Will try to change it out tomorrow, btw, the only reason I have a push button start installed is the keylock cylinder doesnt crank the car, so i got the resistance of the key and installed resistors on that circuit(going to the ecm)

So Im guessing the ignition switch is somehow tied in to this keylock as you have to take out the keylock to change out the switch.

thanks

[tblake]

Originally Posted by danman47

So Im guessing the ignition switch is somehow tied in to this keylock as you have to take out the keylock to change out the switch.

You are correct, it is the ignition switch that applies voltage to your ignition system (Coils, fuel pump, dummy lights), and also to the starter when you crank. Which if the Ignition switch is replaced, I wouldn't doubt if your starter no longer will need the push button to start.

You could still have a blown fuse. Go doen near the drivers feet, you may have to remove the lower panel. Inside you will find a large electrical junction block. Coming out of which you will find 6 large wires, two reds, a pink, pink with white line, yellow, purple, or orange. check for voltage on the two reds. They should have constant battery voltage. Then with ignition on, both pinks should have voltage. If they do not, the ignition switch is shot.

(don't quote me on the colors though, I am just going by memory on remote starter installs from different GM vehicles so they could be different on your car).

[danman47]

OK, I am assuming these are the six wires coming from the ignition switch. The constant battery voltage is present on red, and red/white. Turn key to on and no other wire has voltage, not even the red and red/white. so bad ignition switch it sounds like.
Question do I need to pull the steering wheel off for this? I see the two bolts that hold down the steering column, any other thoughts as the covers to the column where the tilt is I do not see any screws or bolts. I will try to tackle this now.

THanks again for your help

[richtazz]

I agree it's either an ignition switch or possibly corrosion on the underside of the main relay/fuse center under the hood.

If it's an ignition switch, keep in mind that there are two different ignition switches for your car.

One with a floor/console shift, AC-delco part #D1479c
http://webcaps.ecomm.gm.com/internet...tNumber=D1479C

and one with a steering column mounted shifter, AC-Delco part# D1477c
http://webcaps.ecomm.gm.com/internet...tNumber=D1477C

The links above are pictures from Delco's website of the two parts. They look simailar and installation is the same on either. There is a rod that runs along the top of the steering column that runs down to the switch where it attaches to the column, then the other end attaches to the wiring harness under the dash.