Brake bleeding

[82Stang]

1998 Ford Windstar 3.8L rear drums.

Replaced rear brake lines and hoses, starting from halfway back underneath. I use a vacuum hand held vacuum pump and the results are not what I want. I am getting no pedal after bleeding. There is only a trickle of brake fluid at the rear bleeders. Even after utilizing a 2nd person to help bleed the brakes. Is this a split system so I have to bleed the fronts also? I am bleeding right rear then left rear then right front then left front. Or should I go RR to LF, to LR to RF. Thanks.

[wiswind]

One thing that I found helpful is removing the bleeder screw and putting 1 layer of teflon tape on the threads......re-install bleeder screw.
I found that this solved my problem of sucking air into the system through the threads.
I am talking about that thin teflon tape that they sell for pipe threads in the plumbing department.

The other thing that worked for me was using a "one man bleeder".
All that is.....a bottle with a hose........
connect hose to bleeder screw......
other end of hose to bottle.....
then place the bottle at a location that is ABOVE the bleeder screw location.

Open bleeder screw slightly......pump brake pedel a few times to fill the bottle.
Empty bottle.....and repeat the process.

Having the bottle even slightly above the level of the bleeder screw will permit any air to rise up......having just fluid in the hose when you release the brake pedal.......so you can then tighten the bleeder screw........and not have air sucked back into the system.

Of course, don't forget to keep adding fluid to the master cylinder.....don't pump that dry.

If you have the hand pump system that uses vaccum to pull the fluid from the system......you should be able to use the bottle and hose....with whatever connector gets a good seal to the screw........


I have not replaced my rear brake lines......but have replaced the drum brake cylinders.
I replaced my front disk brake calipers and just this past summer replaced the hoses from each caliper to the hard line.
That was cheap.....very easy to do.....and was the best improvement that I have made to the braking performance of the vehicle.......the brakes are better than they have ever been......from the time I bought my '96 in '99.
I bought the standard Raybestos brand hoses from Rockauto...... no braided metal shell.....just the standard hose like the OEM was.

[Mama's T-Bird]

I had a rear brake line rust out and had to replace it. Haynes manual said if you have ABS, bleed brakes as follows: LF,then RF, then LR, then RR (kind of backwards from usual procedure). Also said to pump for each wheel 25 times and to pump slowly cause fast pumping could draw air into the line. I could only pump 6-7 times before fluid was gushing out full force so I figured that was enough. Worked out OK and brake pedal was solid. Also said this method may not be 100% for the ABS and you might have to go to dealer for a special bleeding of the ABS with a special scan tool (didn't understand but it wasn't necessary on mine).

[82Stang]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I have a few ideas what to try.

The Dealer scan w/ABS, I read about. It is basically a valve that gets stuck, or could be bad, in the ABS unit. Sometimes they stick when doing brake lines, maybe no fluid has something to do with that. But, if that needs attention, you can bleed it at the lines from the ABS. Just need another person to do that one, by cracking the lines.

The one man bleed container/hose....... Does there need to be new brake fluid in the container so the hose can be submerged? Or is it the whole deal with just having it higher than bleeder screw? I could probably put together some kind of 'one man kit' with what I have.

[tomj76]

Well, I've not been the purest that some are when bleeding brakes, but I use the one man container hose system.

I give the brake pedal a couple of pumps to submerge the hose, then tighten the bleed screw. On a good day, I get a kid or wife to hold the pedal down once the line is purged.

Also, remember that there is a risk of damage on older vehicles when over driving the master brake piston during a bleed.

[wiswind]

This is a picture of the "one man bleeder" connected to my vehicle
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2158...11220610qGRHGw

As you can see.....it is really a simple thing......there is a magnet on the side of the bottle.
If you have a vaccum setup.....you could simply use your bottle and hose......and leave the spot where the vaccum unit's hose connects to the bottle open.

What happens.....when you press the brake pedal....fluid comes out, filling the line first.......and when you remove your foot from the pedal.......some fluid will be sucked back into the system through the bleeder screw.....but in a amount LESS than what you pumped out.
So.....having the bottle higher than the screw......air will rise up out of the hose.....and you will have JUST fluid in the hose near the bleeder screw.


ABS unit.......I can see that you would need to have the ABS unit activated if you got air into it.
However, there is no worry in bleeding fluid from the main system........as you would not normally have air any place but near the wheels (caliper or wheel cylinder and in the lines near them).
I think that it is good for a abs unit to be activated once in a while........such as in the icy winter......to help circulate the fluid through the system.

[82Stang]

Originally Posted by wiswind

This is a picture of the "one man bleeder" connected to my vehicle
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2158...11220610qGRHGw

As you can see.....it is really a simple thing......there is a magnet on the side of the bottle.
If you have a vaccum setup.....you could simply use your bottle and hose......and leave the spot where the vaccum unit's hose connects to the bottle open.

What happens.....when you press the brake pedal....fluid comes out, filling the line first.......and when you remove your foot from the pedal.......some fluid will be sucked back into the system through the bleeder screw.....but in a amount LESS than what you pumped out.
So.....having the bottle higher than the screw......air will rise up out of the hose.....and you will have JUST fluid in the hose near the bleeder screw.


ABS unit.......I can see that you would need to have the ABS unit activated if you got air into it.
However, there is no worry in bleeding fluid from the main system........as you would not normally have air any place but near the wheels (caliper or wheel cylinder and in the lines near them).
I think that it is good for a abs unit to be activated once in a while........such as in the icy winter......to help circulate the fluid through the system.

Good stuff Wiswind. I'm no stranger to bleeding vehicles, but this one is being rather stubborn and every so often, you learn something new when you ask. So, I did. I have a bunch of ideas how to tackle this problem. Now, if I can just keep rusted parts from breaking every time I touch them.........

Seems like the longer I work on this, the newer it gets.