hahah, argh, i did this to my self, clutch help

[kais3]

well here are the symptoms, when the metro is turned on with the car in neutral i can not get the car into any gear with the clutch depressed.

With the car off i can get into any gear without clutch depressed.

when i start the car in gear it makes a slight whinnying noise but stays in that gear. once taken out of gear it will not go back in any gear.

if i mess around with it for too long the clutch pedal becomes very stiff.

does anybody have any suggestions/answers?


now for the story of how this all came about (i will have to kick my self for every dollar i need to scrap up to fix this) I decided i needed to go ice fishing so Wednesday night a friend and I headed to a place we have never been before. The directions did not pan out like they were suppose to so we started taking side roads to find this mysterious lake. The first road happened to be a minimum maintained road that looked like promising with a turn around in the middle of a slight hill. the snow was only 3" deep so i figured the beastly metro could rally back up that with a little pushing if necessary. Unfortunately and unknown at the time was the hill had a good 2" of glare ice under the snow. After we turned around in the turn around (fitting) we found this out. Now for the relevant part-tires spin on the glare ice, stop place pine branches under tires go for 12" tires spin on glare ice car revs due to no friction, stop move pine branches, repeat. We made it ten feet before symptoms stated above happened with a few naughty words spoken and an empty feeling in my gut weighting me down.
we pulled it out with my buddies car. if only doc Bill found a way to make the geo into 4wd.

Argh I cant even blame this one on the dog.

Please help.

[brivers]

I'm going to guess that your problem has nothing to do with what you were doing. It sounds like your clutch cable has dumped on you and not releasing the clutch all the way when depressed. Look at the cable housing when depressing the clutch, its probably compressing somewhere between the two ends. If this is your problem then its an easy fix by replacing it. Junk yard would be a lot cheaper than new. If this is not the case then you probably have a broken finger on your pressure plate, which require trans removal. Hope this helps.

[Johnny Mullet]

If the cable is OK, then you need to pull the trans. Here is a How To...............
http://geometroforum.com/topic/638772/

[Woodie83]

The throwout arm that connects the cable to the throwout fork and bearing is prone to cracking on the earlier cars. They're made of sheet metal and crack where the pinch bolt tightens them to the shaft. The newer cars got a cast iron arm. Certainly worth a look before dropping the transmission.

[kais3]

Alright thanks guys. I got the car in a garage, a cold garage but still a garage. I will first look at the clutch fork and replace the clutch cable. If I am lucky enough for this to be my only problem i will drink the rest of the beers in celebration. If not I will be amply supplied to remove the transmission. Thanks a bunch for the detailed post Johnny, your dedication to this sport-if you drink beer, yell, and sweat it’s a sport- will help save my hid again.

it starts tomorrow morning.
by the way the it is a 96 metro 226,000 miles new tranny and clutch when i bought it at 160,000 engine overhall (thanks to this forum) at 206,000 45-53mpg summer 40-42mpg winter.

[Johnny Mullet]

Keep us updated man! Once you get it fixed, you might be able to bring it to Geopalooza 2010....................
http://geometroforum.com/topic/2288027/

[kais3]

well it wasnt the cable. i finally got the tranny off, the pressure plate forks show the worn rings as in the manual. the clutch plate came out fine and one of the four spiral rings? fell out. So clutch is bad.

now here are the questions on the flywheel starting from the outside in you have the area were the bolts are, then the brake like surface which looks good but my head light went out at this time so i will have to look tomorrow. this brake like surface is recessed from the bolt area. the next area inside the brake like surface is not smooth and a large amount of red dust with metal shavings has accumulated on the outside edge. i am guessing the metal shavings are from the clutch plate spiral ring. is this area suppose to be smooth?

also i can not seem to get my flywheel off. if the brake like surface is not damaged is it possible to reuse this flywheel with no problems? are there things on the flywheel i can measure without taking it off?


at it again tomorrow, i will be sure to bring an extra propane tank for the heater this time.

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

I post this information from "very personal" experience. I have had this same issue happen to me twice now. If you are lucky and the spring did not get between the clutch disk and the flywheel then it may be reusable. Check it very closely for any stress or heat cracks. Because it is recessed it takes a special lathe to get it resurfaced. My first time around it took several tries to find somewhere that could do it. A replacement flywheel is not outrageously expensive.

The rough area is left like that from the manufacturer, just clean it up real well if you are reusing the flywheel.

The tip I remember using initially to get the flywheel off is to pack the area behind it with bearing grease then put something in the hole that will seal it up and hit it with a hammer. The grease is supposed to force the flywheel off. I also seem to remember this did not work all that well but I don't remember what I did to get it off. Rubber mallets, giant screwdrivers and various other "special" tools are all in my arsenal and one or more of them paid off. I do remember it being a pain to get off though.

The 1st clutch set I purchased was absolute garbage. It started slipping soon after I got it, even with a careful break in period. After researching at the Teamswift site I followed their recommendation on what brand to use. That set lasted a reasonable length of time but eventually it dropped a spring as well. After having the same issue more than once I decided to try to find a performance clutch that could stand up to the way I drive. I ended up with a Spec brand clutch set. I believe it was just a stage 1 but it did make a difference. It has never slipped (I have towed an old postal Jeep with it twice), doesn't take a monster leg to work the clutch, and is very civilized after you get used to it. At the very least, I would recommend reading up on teamswift about what brand they say to use or get a Spec clutch instead of whatever cheap set you can find.

Good luck,
MMM

[brivers]

[quote=Metro Mighty Mouse;6094395]
The tip I remember using initially to get the flywheel off is to pack the area behind it with bearing grease then put something in the hole that will seal it up and hit it with a hammer. The grease is supposed to force the flywheel off.


This trick is for getting the pilot bearing out.

[Metro Mighty Mouse]

I'll go with that, it still didn't work very well.

[kais3]

alright thanks guys i got my new clutch in, and tranny back on. i used the old flywheel after cleaning and inspecting it. the hardest part was getting the tranny back into a position were i could attempt to attach it. i did this by using a come along and straps around the front and back to raise it semi level. After moving my clutch release arm a few times and learning that that is a very bad thing to do, luckily before i attached the tranny as it makes the throw out bearing go all cady wompus. after that it went together likity split (in my time) and i had her driving by 9:30 pm.

the clutch pedel is a little stiffer now but nothing else seems to be perking my ultra stressed out ears as i drive it.

it took me two days to do this and if/when i have to do this again i could cut it down to one day.

thanks a lot for all of your advice, a few more of these projects and i may be able to give advice thats worth a darn.