How corrupt is your country?

[MagicRat]

I am a big believer that corruption, both in the private sector and in government is tremendously harmful to a nation's economic and social development.
Nations that function honestly and openly are apt to be stronger economically and be more pleasant to live in.

To that end, Transparency International has just ranked most nations in the world in terms of corruption. Sure, the ranking may not be precise but it's quite interesting how they stack up. The further down the list you go, the higher the ranking and the less pleasant the nation's image becomes.

I am impressed at how some nations where I have friends and relatives have done. For example, Chile is #25, I think, and it shows.... it's a well-run place that has made tremendous strides in the last 30 years.

Others, like Russia at #146, seem to be typically bad. I have friends who moved recently from Russia who hate the place. They claim the vast majority of Russians are honest, decent people, but the public service, elected officials and many businesses are astonishingly corrupt and function as gangsters, thieves and thugs.

Some Canadians seemed to be disappointed that Canada was no better than #8. I am not surprised. My country is mostly very honest, but there are some alligations of municipal corruption in some cities local public service (mostly in Montreal) and persistent low levels of organized crime (drugs, prostitution, smuggling and extortion). IMO the police forces seem unwilling (lack of resources and sheer laziness, imo) to make a concerted effort to really clean up these problems.

It's also interesting that Hong Kong was listed separately, as it falls under Chinese control. Surprisingly, HK did well at #12, while China sucked at #79.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Transparency International has just ranked most nations in the world in terms of corruption.

Wrong, they ranked nations based on "perception of corruption" not "in terms of corruption" and I don't see anywhere on the linked site whether the perception ranking is internal or external, i.e. is the perception of corruption from the citizens them selves or from an external source?

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by ericn1300

Wrong, they ranked nations based on "perception of corruption" not "in terms of corruption"

Wrong. Your italicized terms are not mutually exclusive.

They have used the perception of corruption to rank nations in terms of corruption.

I already said:

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Sure, the ranking may not be precise .

but imo this does not alter the imprtance of an understanding of corruption and how it affects commerce and the relative economies of nations.

FWIW corruption, but its very nature is difficult to trace accurately. What nation is going to keep accurate records of something that is supposed to be illegal?
But imo perceptions of corruption are almost as important as fact. Would you risk money doing business in a country that is perceived as being highly corrupt? Probably not.

So it is in the best interest of the more-corrupt nations to clean up their act and improve their perceptions to attract trade and foreign investment. And the best way of doing this is to actually fix the corruption through legislation and enforcement.

Originally Posted by ericn1300

I don't see anywhere on the linked site whether the perception ranking is internal or external, i.e. is the perception of corruption from the citizens them selves or from an external source?

It took me about 10 seconds to find an excellent description of their methodology which addresses your concerns.
Click here...

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

It's also interesting that Hong Kong was listed separately, as it falls under Chinese control. Surprisingly, HK did well at #12, while China sucked at #79.

Hong Kong is in a particularly unique situation in that it in effect has two systems in place; that of China and that of the existing system of the previous British rule. Now while there have been some changes due to conflict with Chinese rule it is by and large, still what it was and more importantly, it is run essentially independent and seperately from China.

Even today, you really can't say Hong Kong is China.


It is also worth pointing out that Hong Kong was very, very corrupt in the past up until the mid 70s when a special investigative division, seperate from the existing corrupt police anti corruption department was created.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

Hong Kong is in a particularly unique situation in that it in effect has two systems in place; that of China and that of the existing system of the previous British rule. Now while there have been some changes due to conflict with Chinese rule it is by and large, still what it was and more importantly, it is run essentially independent and seperately from China.

Even today, you really can't say Hong Kong is China.

Good points. China has also done much the same with Macao, and preserved much of the westernized industries already in place, including businesses, such as foreign-owned casinos which don't seem to exist on the mainland.

[Shpuker]

Yea I disagree with pretty much every ranking on there, the USA should be way higher, Canada way lower, and some other BS

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by Shpuker

the USA should be way higher, Canada way lower,

Move Capitol Hill to Saskatchewan and that would probably happen.

[Shpuker]

North Korea isn't even on the list

[drunken monkey]

The very simple explanation for that is that no one knows what is going on within the borders, nor are people within those borders free to speak anyway.

[1_Hot_Autobot]

I would say a good 200% if you asked my personal opinion... Americans laugh at the fact that the Middle eastern elections are a complete sham and they don't even realize the entire world is laughing right back in our faces. It's sad really.. To be a country founded on the protection of freedom and yet it's people have no true freedom. The presidential elections are more like a child in a toy shoppe. Which puppet to choose. The worst part of it all is the american people have been reduced to voting on the lesser of evils. I mean the american people do choose something ( if it suits the government) because they choose which puppet whose story they like and that puppet will be put into office while the true power is behind a curtain. A curtain that we may never see until too late. But there is really nothing we can do... but wait and see.

[ExoticSpotting]

[quote=1_Hot_Autobot;6070395]The worst part of it all is the american people have been reduced to voting on the lesser of evils.quote]

I agree. Thats the real downside to having only two major parties, as opposed to the UK or other nations that have several big parties.

It also severely restricts the way you express your political identity. Moderate Democrats get grouped together with the off-the-deep-end leftists, and Libertarians and Fiscal Conservatives fall under the label of Republican.

[Jimster]

Mine is number one. There are very small pockets of corruption at a governmental level, but if corruption is found, then the media has a field day. For instance an ex-Labour politician Philip Taito Field was jailed for immigration fraud recently, he was crucified by the media.

[Shpuker]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

The very simple explanation for that is that no one knows what is going on within the borders, nor are people within those borders free to speak anyway.

Its compleatly based on speculation anyway :P