Plastic vs. G6 gxp

[TorchedStealth]

I was on my way to class yesterday and our bridge by my house just re opened after a summer long project, and its the fastest way to campus to I took it. Pulled up next to my neighbor (graduated with him and known him since 2nd grade) who has a g6 gxp with the 3.6 VVT V6 with intake, gmpp (borla) catback, and vector motorsports canned tune.

Little background, we raced before when I was on stage 2 (42's, 2.9, non meth shitty tune with no cooling mods) and from 35-125 I had about 5-6 cars on him. For reference sake I had about 3 on him at 105.

He took off a few times just messing around and then lined up at around 45 mph. He honked it off and I had about 10-12 cars on him by 105 (really hard to tell when its that far apart lol!), but then he said he started in 3rd. So we went again from the same speed and this time we were both in 2nd and I struggled for traction when I hit it but quickly gained it back and pulled mean on him. Torque steering through 2nd I no lift shifted to 3rd at 70 shooting out a nice little flame Held 3rd out to just under redline and let out at 105 with a good 7-8 cars on him. We were both pretty impressed at how much my new mods helped me. Keep in mind this is on my winter tune which netted me a 106mph trap. On my smaller pulley on kill mode I should trap 110 or just under.

So who wants to see the video I make when I run him on the Man pulley and nice tune? Haha!

I have to admit though, a tune wakes those gxp's up a LOT!

[-The Stig-]

The only good thing about G6 GXP's is that they don't make them any more...

A disgrace to Pontiac... it's sad, that Pontiac tried so hard to make fun cars but ended up making plastic clad ugly front drivers (GrandPrix anybody?) then again with these G6's... and when they finally got it right with the G8 GT/GXP and Solstice GXP... they die.

So either my G8GT is worth nothing, or a lot... being one of the last Rear drive Pontiacs ever. Woot?

[UnderEstimate Me]

The GXP G6 looks like a raticate.

[grandprixgtx00]

Originally Posted by -The Stig-

it's sad, that Pontiac tried so hard to make fun cars but ended up making plastic clad ugly front drivers (GrandPrix anybody?)

are you kidding me? plastic clad ugly front drivers?? One of those Plastic clad ugly front drivers just so happened to be one of the few cars SLP would actually do production cars for (GTX anybody?)

Only sad thing about Pontiac is that GM decided to stop production of the Pontiac instead of Buick.

and to the OP. that G6 did a pretty decent job for being NA. Lets throw a blower on there with a few supporting mods, and I'm sure your buddy will call it a day. just my

[CassiesMan]

Originally Posted by grandprixgtx00

are you kidding me? plastic clad ugly front drivers?? One of those Plastic clad ugly front drivers just so happened to be one of the few cars SLP would actually do production cars for (GTX anybody?)

Only sad thing about Pontiac is that GM decided to stop production of the Pontiac instead of Buick.

and to the OP. that G6 did a pretty decent job for being NA. Lets throw a blower on there with a few supporting mods, and I'm sure your buddy will call it a day. just my

As someone who used to work for GM on the inside...if you expected them to stay in business at all getting rid of Pontiac was hardly the wrong decision.

[grandprixgtx00]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

As someone who used to work for GM on the inside...if you expected them to stay in business at all getting rid of Pontiac was hardly the wrong decision.

i would love you to elaborate on this a bit. not because i dont believe you, but because i really want to hear an educated answer.

me being the average consumer, i have been a Pontiac fan since i can remember. Grand Prix to be more specific. Only reason i loved the Grand Prix was because of the bullet proof 3800. IMO one of the best motors around hands down. If you wanted to Mod, it was fairly easy...throw a 3.5 or a 3.4 pulley on the supercharger with a few supporting mods and you had close to 300 WHP.

Driving around these days...i see SO many Pontiacs. Grand prix's and G6's to be particular. seems like there is 1 around every corner. i guess i just cant comprehend the reason they would stop making them when you see more Pontiacs on the road than anything else?

[TorchedStealth]

To be honest i dont think he would beat me on his stock motor with a blower. I have more power then when I raced him and I dont think the motors in the GXP G6's are as strong as the 3.8 GTP motors. Even those take a healthy amount of mods to beat my car. But those who mod them a lot, even on the stock motor, see high numbers. I just dont the think the non DI 3.6 is as strong.

Now my car isnt very fast by any means, but his car would need quite a few mods and possible internals to make up for the 17mph trap speed difference.

[CassiesMan]

Originally Posted by grandprixgtx00

i would love you to elaborate on this a bit. not because i dont believe you, but because i really want to hear an educated answer.

Pontiac had lost its place in the GM portfolio. It no longer had a design focus, and wasn't generating any new sales volume, only siphoning from Chevrolet. Or, in other words, the majority of the last few years of Pontiac drivers weren't cross shopping Pontiac and an out of house brand. So it wasn't generating any new clientele, wasn't increasing company revenue, but still cost us money to produce. There was nothing in the Pontiac line up that generated any floor traffic. The marketing team failed horribly with the G8, and the rest of the cars were a joke. The whole point of Pontiac was to represent the performance oriented brand in the portfolio, but it wasn't. It was rebaged Cobalts and Malibu coupes with horrid interiors and plastic body cladding all over the place to replace true performance.

In its final days before the "we are killing it notice" came down the pipeline, we were on our hands and knees begging dealerships to take G8s. We were offering them so many dealer incentives it was ridiculous. I personally had to offer one dealership that was a full five pack store two Corvettes and two Camaros just to take one G8 GT. They would laugh at us if we asked them to take the Solstice. Sure, it may have looked great, but sales just didn't cover the cost of the vehicle.

With no true brad philosophy left (Pontiac is Car? WTF?), rebadging because Pontiac only stores wanted to get something like the non performance Chevies, a dwindling customer base, and no real product worth moving, it was the logical choice.

Buick, on the other hand, has had an explosion of sales. They are finally getting away from the 85+ crowd with their sales, and they honestly have some good product coming down the pipeline. The joke around the office started with the Enclave with the "holy shit Buick has a car that has a waiting list." The new Lucernes and Lacrosses were great cars that perfectly hit the market, and the Buick team, unlike the Pontiac team, isn't letting the line stagnate.

I spoke with a Pontiac marketing guy right before I left the company, and he agreed with me that the final death strike for Pontiac was a mixture of failed marketing (the entire G8 campaign was a joke), failure to secure a true halo vehicle (or, you want a Trans Am? Talk to Lingenfelter), and the fact that due to insistence from the dealers, Pontiac ended up rebadging some shitty cars. It didn't create enough money for GM to maintain the brand.

[grandprixgtx00]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

Pontiac had lost its place in the GM portfolio. It no longer had a design focus, and wasn't generating any new sales volume, only siphoning from Chevrolet. Or, in other words, the majority of the last few years of Pontiac drivers weren't cross shopping Pontiac and an out of house brand. So it wasn't generating any new clientele, wasn't increasing company revenue, but still cost us money to produce. There was nothing in the Pontiac line up that generated any floor traffic. The marketing team failed horribly with the G8, and the rest of the cars were a joke. The whole point of Pontiac was to represent the performance oriented brand in the portfolio, but it wasn't. It was rebaged Cobalts and Malibu coupes with horrid interiors and plastic body cladding all over the place to replace true performance.

In its final days before the "we are killing it notice" came down the pipeline, we were on our hands and knees begging dealerships to take G8s. We were offering them so many dealer incentives it was ridiculous. I personally had to offer one dealership that was a full five pack store two Corvettes and two Camaros just to take one G8 GT. They would laugh at us if we asked them to take the Solstice. Sure, it may have looked great, but sales just didn't cover the cost of the vehicle.

With no true brad philosophy left (Pontiac is Car? WTF?), rebadging because Pontiac only stores wanted to get something like the non performance Chevies, a dwindling customer base, and no real product worth moving, it was the logical choice.

Buick, on the other hand, has had an explosion of sales. They are finally getting away from the 85+ crowd with their sales, and they honestly have some good product coming down the pipeline. The joke around the office started with the Enclave with the "holy shit Buick has a car that has a waiting list." The new Lucernes and Lacrosses were great cars that perfectly hit the market, and the Buick team, unlike the Pontiac team, isn't letting the line stagnate.

I spoke with a Pontiac marketing guy right before I left the company, and he agreed with me that the final death strike for Pontiac was a mixture of failed marketing (the entire G8 campaign was a joke), failure to secure a true halo vehicle (or, you want a Trans Am? Talk to Lingenfelter), and the fact that due to insistence from the dealers, Pontiac ended up rebadging some shitty cars. It didn't create enough money for GM to maintain the brand.

you have a few very good points as i expected, and i respect your answer. i do agree that Pontiac did a lot of rebadging (wow, that G6 looks alot like a Chevy Cobalt!) and i still do not understand to this day how the G8 did not do well. Car and Driver gave the G8 some very good reviews, and alot of the performance junkies liked the car. I am aware however that Pontiac picked the wrong time to be coming out with a huge V8, but how does Chevy rank with the revamp of the Chevy Camaro? (which IMO is ugly as he!!)

i think the whole idea of GM "getting in bed" with Holden and making things such as the GTO, and G8 was a bad idea in general.

the Grand Prix IMO was one of the best cars made by Pontiac, and with the GXP lineup, it made the GP a strong contender (even though i dont agree with them putting the 4T65E in it) and the Trans Am, thats a whole different story in itself. WTF were they thinking I guess i still just dont understand, and maybe i just never will

[grandprixgtx00]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

Pontiac had lost its place in the GM portfolio. It no longer had a design focus, and wasn't generating any new sales volume, only siphoning from Chevrolet. Or, in other words, the majority of the last few years of Pontiac drivers weren't cross shopping Pontiac and an out of house brand. So it wasn't generating any new clientele, wasn't increasing company revenue, but still cost us money to produce. There was nothing in the Pontiac line up that generated any floor traffic. The marketing team failed horribly with the G8, and the rest of the cars were a joke. The whole point of Pontiac was to represent the performance oriented brand in the portfolio, but it wasn't. It was rebaged Cobalts and Malibu coupes with horrid interiors and plastic body cladding all over the place to replace true performance.

In its final days before the "we are killing it notice" came down the pipeline, we were on our hands and knees begging dealerships to take G8s. We were offering them so many dealer incentives it was ridiculous. I personally had to offer one dealership that was a full five pack store two Corvettes and two Camaros just to take one G8 GT. They would laugh at us if we asked them to take the Solstice. Sure, it may have looked great, but sales just didn't cover the cost of the vehicle.

With no true brad philosophy left (Pontiac is Car? WTF?), rebadging because Pontiac only stores wanted to get something like the non performance Chevies, a dwindling customer base, and no real product worth moving, it was the logical choice.

Buick, on the other hand, has had an explosion of sales. They are finally getting away from the 85+ crowd with their sales, and they honestly have some good product coming down the pipeline. The joke around the office started with the Enclave with the "holy shit Buick has a car that has a waiting list." The new Lucernes and Lacrosses were great cars that perfectly hit the market, and the Buick team, unlike the Pontiac team, isn't letting the line stagnate.

I spoke with a Pontiac marketing guy right before I left the company, and he agreed with me that the final death strike for Pontiac was a mixture of failed marketing (the entire G8 campaign was a joke), failure to secure a true halo vehicle (or, you want a Trans Am? Talk to Lingenfelter), and the fact that due to insistence from the dealers, Pontiac ended up rebadging some shitty cars. It didn't create enough money for GM to maintain the brand.

you have a few very good points as i expected, and i respect your answer. i do agree that Pontiac did a lot of rebadging (wow, that G6 looks alot like a Chevy Cobalt!) and i still do not understand to this day how the G8 did not do well. Car and Driver gave the G8 some very good reviews, and alot of the performance junkies liked the car. I am aware however that Pontiac picked the wrong time to be coming out with a huge V8, but how does Chevy rank with the revamp of the Chevy Camaro? (which IMO is ugly as he!!)

i think the whole idea of GM "getting in bed" with Holden and making things such as the GTO, and G8 was a bad idea in general.

the Grand Prix IMO was one of the best cars made by Pontiac, and with the GXP lineup, it made the GP a strong contender (even though i dont agree with them putting the 4T65E in it) and the Trans Am, thats a whole different story in itself. WTF were they thinking I guess i still just dont understand, and maybe i just never will

[CassiesMan]

Originally Posted by grandprixgtx00

you have a few very good points as i expected, and i respect your answer. i do agree that Pontiac did a lot of rebadging (wow, that G6 looks alot like a Chevy Cobalt!) and i still do not understand to this day how the G8 did not do well. Car and Driver gave the G8 some very good reviews, and alot of the performance junkies liked the car. I am aware however that Pontiac picked the wrong time to be coming out with a huge V8, but how does Chevy rank with the revamp of the Chevy Camaro? (which IMO is ugly as he!!)

It was horribly launched for the market it was supposed to fill. The gas price "spike" (aka Summer) basically had everyone switch to marketing fuel efficiency. I told everyone I knew that come October of '08, prices would bottom out and everything would be fine. I told all my dealerships that. I told my managers that. I told my friends that. I told a friend who works on the exchange trading oil, and even he said no, gas will never be cheap again.

What happened October '08? Locally 93 Octane bottomed out to under $2.00 a gallon, and cheap shit from the crappy stations was almost below the dollar mark. But I don't have a fancy economic degree, so what the fuck do I know, right?

But when the gas prices spike, GM basically switched all marketing to fuel efficiency. All of the sudden the big V8 sedan that got so so mileage was no were to be seen. The difference between it and the 'Maro is that that 'Maro is a halo vehicle, not meant to be purchased by the masses and used as every day transportation like the G8 was.

But again, the reason that Pontiac slowly got the cold shoulder is it didn't generate enough sales from opposing brands. Or, basically, it didn't generate sales. People were cross shopping the Cobalt and the G5, not the G5 and the Honda Civic. Hell, we had marketing stuff in the office that compared the G5 to the competitors, and on that list was the Cobalt. So they never ended up poaching other brands. It would have been the same had they launched a Trans Am- it wouldn't generate new sales, at least at the needed volume to justify bringing the line back. When it died, Pontiac had two cars, TWO, that were not part of badge engineering AND represented what Pontiac was meant to be. The Solstice and the G8. Out of seven cars, only two represented the true brand philosophy.

[grandprixgtx00]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

It was horribly launched for the market it was supposed to fill. The gas price "spike" (aka Summer) basically had everyone switch to marketing fuel efficiency.

that is the very reason the G8 did not do as well as it should have. Chevy even thought twice about doing the Camaro again. Bringing back the Trans Am would have been awesome. I dont understand how anyone couldnt see that gas prices were going to crash, and finally stable out...but as you said both you and i dont have a degree in economics or any of that bullshit, so what do we know?

Pontiac just tried to hard with the name thing...and began changing what seemed to be working for them. The three decent cars Pontiac had...and what was their main line up, the Bonneville Grand Am and Grand Prix just wasnt good enough. They had to have names like the G5, G6, and G8 because the names were "catchy" and IMO this is where things began to go downhill.

yes, the Marketing campaign was just horrible, and you never seemed to see any Pontiac commercials on the air anymore. what ever happened to things like "Pontiac fuel for the soul" and "wider is better" man, those were the good ol' days.

[Musashi3000GT]

Goddam! that little red rocket of yours is fugging awsome! Im reading through all your mods and drooling! I cant believe I have that same car parked outside. Im am seriously jelous of your car man, in a good way though.

[TorchedStealth]

Thanks musashi! The car is on E85 now and tuned by myself on a 2.7 inch pulley. Well I guess it says that in my sig lol, kinda forgot about that. But it should put down right around 290-300whp and 270tq still on the stock blower Its a fun little car for what it is, and I think ill keep it for a while to see what it can do before I pick up something with some more displacement to make some real power!

[Musashi3000GT]

Originally Posted by TorchedStealth

Thanks musashi! The car is on E85 now and tuned by myself on a 2.7 inch pulley. Well I guess it says that in my sig lol, kinda forgot about that. But it should put down right around 290-300whp and 270tq still on the stock blower Its a fun little car for what it is, and I think ill keep it for a while to see what it can do before I pick up something with some more displacement to make some real power!

Real power? geeze man I ran neck and neck with a dude who was on a 2.7 pulley with fuel mods and full exhaust. he was putting down around 280 to the wheels. I begged him to help me look for a way to do a stage 2 on my car since the dealer is charging me upwards of 1500.00 for it. He was an Army reservist so he got surged before he could help me out.
Your car is what my car dreams of being at night while it sleeps.