1998 Grand Am 2.4 Quad 4 Automatic Ticking gets louder as engine warms.

doug2060 · #1 10-18-2009, 03:01 PM

1998 Grand Am
2.4 Quad 4
123K
Automatic

Yesterday I pulled into the parking lot at work and as soon as I turned my radio off I noticed a loud ticking noise. I quickly took it home (1/2 mile) and got my other car. I did notice that when I gave it some gas down a straight back road the noise quietened down until I started slowing down. This morning I went out to take a look. I cranked it up and it started the same loud ticking but after a few seconds it was gone. The engine ran fine other than the noise but slowly as the engine warmed up the noise slowly started again and as the temperature went up so did the noise of the ticking. I have had a lifter making a little noise for a while but I'm not sure if that is the problem. I hit the gas a few times and noticed that it was cutting out at 3500rpm. The car is not smoking or running hot. This car has been such a pain lately. I just replaced the head gasket a couple weeks ago. Is anyone here familiar with these symptoms?

I will also be checking the exhaust manifold. The way it did it when it was cold then stopped would not lead me to think it is the problem but It's wishful thinking. I would rather replace the manifold than go back into the motor AGAIN...

grandprixgtx00 · #2 10-18-2009, 04:28 PM

when the headgasket was done, was there coolant in the oil? if so you have to make sure to clean it all out real well. i would check the oil and see if there is still a little coolant. coolant in the oil will cause a weird color. almost looks like cappuccino.

also if you ran it too long with the headgasket bad, the coolant in the oil could have caused a few valves to be bent.

btw: cutting out at 3500 RPM's while reving in park is normal. it is the rev limiter.

doug2060 · #3 10-18-2009, 08:45 PM

Thanks for your reply. I completely replaced the entire head and cleaned the system very well afterward. 3 oil changes too in 800 miles. The new head came from a wrecked 98 Grand Am with 73K. It was cleaned up and pressure tested so I'm sure the valves are fine. Like I said earlier, other than the noise the car runs normally. What I really want to know is if it is a lifter or something else entirely. I will be taking the exhaust manifold off tomorrow to check for cracks. Will I be able to see the crack if it's there? I've never dealt with a cracked exhaust manifold. Would a cracked manifold do this?

grandprixgtx00 · #4 10-18-2009, 10:12 PM

exhaust minifold gaskets could be a possibility. were they replaced? how about the exhaust studs and bolts? I'm wondering if the exhaust heats up and causes the minifold gaskets to leak? this will cause a "ticking" noise too.

doug2060 · #5 10-19-2009, 12:16 AM

Hmmm... Sounds like a good idea. I hope it is that simple. I did reuse the gasket. I would rather that be it than just about anything. I know this car and when it breaks down or has problems it is never that simple. Maybe I'll get lucky.

doug2060 · #6 10-19-2009, 12:26 PM

I just went out with the stethoscope. After letting it warm I believe there is an exhaust issue. I also learned that it may be time time replace the timing set too. When reving it to high rpms (around 2500 to 3000) you can hear the chain definitely make a noise like its slapping the top guide or something. When using the stethoscope It seems like the loudest part of the ticking is eminationg from the lower exhaust manifold area. I also found a possible cause for it. I have also recently replaced the heater core which was busted or went bad from overheating due to the old cracked head I replaced also recently. The hose that connects to the tube going into the water pump housing has a little drip. It may have blown a bit of water onto the exhaust and caused a crack. This car is really starting to piss me off.

doug2060 · #7 10-19-2009, 08:27 PM

I got the manifold off but there are no signs of cracks. Is there anything specific I should look for? There are some signs of oil around the upper exhaust manifold gasket but I've noticed that before. There are also signs of soot around the inner rim of the 2 bottom gaskets. Not all the way around but in different areas as if it was blowing slightly outward. I'm not sure if it was there before but it wipes away easily like it is recent. IDK. ANy thoughts? I will get a new set of gaskets tomorrow but I'm still lost here. Any thoughts or opinions will be much appreciated.

wafrederick · #8 10-20-2009, 07:10 PM

You want to replace the timing chain before it breaks and the 1996 to 2003 Quad 4s are interferance engines bending the valves.

doug2060 · #9 10-20-2009, 07:51 PM

Yeah, I know. I'm not going to drive it until I can get the new timing set. The loud noise is gone though. I replaced the exhaust manifold and flange gaskets. Is it possible that the chain noise was being amplified by the exhaust leak or is it just an unrelated issue? Anyway, I'm definitely not looking forward to replacing the timing set. I've been into this engine atleast 4 times. The cheapest timing set I can find is on ebay. Does anyone know where I can get one cheaper? Thanks grandprixgtx00 for suggesting the exhaust gaskets. Much better than a cracked manifold... Maybe someday I'll get to drive this car more than 500 miles without a major issue.

doug2060 · #10 10-24-2009, 10:50 PM

OK, I'm waiting on the new timing set to arrive. In the mean time I have been checking the car out the best I can but I can't isolate whether the ticking noise is coming from the timing chain area or the exhaust side cam housing. It is not as loud as before now that the exhaust issue has been fixed but it is there and gets louder as the engine warms up to temp. It now sounds more like a fluttering tick. When the car is first started cold you can hear a lifter ticking. It's been doing that since I got it but when the car is warmed up I can open the throttle a bit and then it will start doing it louder and stay that way. I can turn the car off let it cool down and it's gone but returns as soon as it warms up... Any clues or thoughts? I'm going to check compression before I start tearing it down (again) which I should have already done as a precaution. Maybe I'll take the camera out a take a video so I can post it here for opinions. Any help here is much appreciated. Thanks...

doug2060 · #11 10-25-2009, 02:23 PM

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