Problem with brakes.

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

Ok I have a 97 Windstar with about 70K on it.

It's been sitting for at least the past 3 years (it's a spare vehicle) so I've decided to fix it up a little and sell it.

Well, there are only 3 things that need attention.

I'll start with the brakes.

Turn the key, put it in drive, come to a stop sign, hit the brakes. Every time I get below 10 mph, the brakes start to slip as if the ABS is activating.

It doesn't matter if I've been driving for 2 minutes or 2 hours. It doesn't matter if I'm slowing down from 15 mph or 55 mph.

I get the same effect, EVERY time.

I've put new pads/rotors on so that's not the problem.

I've considered draining the brake fluid and putting new fluid in.

I've considered replacing the two front ABS sensors.

I'm not getting an ABS light on the dash.

Check engine light has been on since I've owned it but the code says DPFE sensor.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[Airjer_]

That's only two things?

Do you hear the ABS pump working when the brakes "start to slip"? If so than I would check the exciter rings for rust build up or see if they are cracked. You can clean them up with a wire brush. The easiest thing to do is monitor speed sensor data when coming to a stop. Whichever one drops out is the one that needs attention.

The DPFE sensor is super common on these. They have been updated numerous time by ford. A scan tool is needed for proper diagnosis. Usually the voltage is stuck high or stuck low. The sensor is the one with the two hoses running to it from the EGR tube that runs to the EGR valve. Make sure those hoses are cracked or leaking also.

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

What should I listen for to see if the ABS pump is working?

What's an exciter ring?

What do you mean by "monitor speed sensor data"?

Sorry for all the noob questions but I know nothing of ABS.

[Airjer_]

The pump will make a moaning sound and the pedal will feel like it is vibrating. You've never had the ABS kick in during a stop before?

there is an exciter ring for each wheel. For the fronts it is the part on the drive axle with the notches right below the abs sensor. If those are really rusted or the ring is cracked it will cause problems.

You need a scan tool to read DATA. This is a ten minute job to figure out what is wrong with the right tools.

[wiswind]

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2030...11220610romxdY

This link will take you to a picture that is a front view of the front suspention on my '96.
The Exciter ring is labeled in the picture.....looks like a gear.
Just spray it down with a liberal amount of brake cleaner.

Also verify that the sensor is correctly spaced from the "teeth" of the exciter ring......particularly in the rear....they can get bumped...etc and be a tad bit far from the exciter ring...and not give a reliable signal.

As far as brake fluid.....I would recommend a good bleeding of it at each wheel.
Just do it the traditional way....nothing special.
If you have a problem with air getting by the threads of the bleeder screw.....simply remove the bleeder screw and wrap 1 layer of teflon tape on the threads and re-install.

Use FRESH brake fluid from a new bottle that you break the seal on......a bottle of brake fluid that has been sitting around the garage for who knows how long will likely have absorbed moisture.....and not be good.

Some folks have mentioned an issue with getting the bottle of brake fluid to the master cylinder...in that not so convenient location........what I do is leave the cap on the bottle.....position it next to the master cylinder.....remove cap and pour.

You might also need to re-pack the rear wheel bearings.

[Gifts4cheap.net]

hi i had this very same problem 2 weeks ago on a similiar windstar it is your hydraulic pump unit attached to the abs unit under the drivers seat under the vehicle.The valves are sticking and they are just dumping and not building up.i tried replacing the master cylinder that didn't fix it.bled the brakes like crazy . Then i found out there was a abs unit with the hydraulic pump attached to it under the vehicle. That is the problem they are $900 for non traction control or $1300 for traction control. Better get one from the bone-yard like i did for 50 bucks. Put it on and bleed the brake and erase codes if any.That should fix you up.

[Gifts4cheap.net]

Oh forgot to mention bleeding. Start with front left bleed till no air then the right front then left back then right back. That is procedure some models are different some i seen a x pattern on windstars.Ok bye

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

Originally Posted by wiswind

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2030...11220610romxdY


Also verify that the sensor is correctly spaced from the "teeth" of the exciter ring......particularly in the rear....they can get bumped...etc and be a tad bit far from the exciter ring...and not give a reliable signal.

And just how do I know what this "space" is supposed to be? Is it in the Chilton's/Haynes manual?

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

I hate to bump my own thread but with ANY luck, I'll be checking out this piece of junk Windstar sometime tomorrow. Weather permitting, of course (not having a garage SUCKS!)

Anyway, so I'll have to look at the exciter rings and front sensors. I'm also going to bleed the brakes (they could probably use it by now) and if I have time, I'll check out the rear wheel bearings. I don't understand what rear wheel bearings would have to do with the front brakes, though.

Thank you all for your replies. I will post results as soon as I get them.

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

Once again, I hate to bump my own thread, but I actually had 10 minutes today to do some quick troubleshooting to this hunk of junk.

At the advice of a co-worker, I pulled the ABS fuse to see if disabling the ABS had any effect on this problem.

As expected, the BRAKE and ABS lights illuminated on the dash, however, the "slipping" problem was GONE!

Now I KNOW it has something to do with the ABS system. I'm definitely going to replace all the ABS sensors and clean the hell out of the exciter rings. Unfortunately, with what little spare time I have, if that doesn't fix the problem, I may be forced to sell this thing as is.

[Airjer_]

I think replacing all the sensors is a shot in the dark and pretty uneconomical! It only takes one bad one to cause this problem if one is even bad. At $60 a piece all four would run you $240. Diagnostic time at a shop would run you around $100. If a sensor is bad you can still replace it yourself for $60. You just saved yourself $80!

[serge_saati]

Originally Posted by zippy_LiL_SL1

Ok I have a 97 Windstar with about 70K on it.

It's been sitting for at least the past 3 years (it's a spare vehicle) so I've decided to fix it up a little and sell it.

Well, there are only 3 things that need attention.

I'll start with the brakes.

Turn the key, put it in drive, come to a stop sign, hit the brakes. Every time I get below 10 mph, the brakes start to slip as if the ABS is activating.

It doesn't matter if I've been driving for 2 minutes or 2 hours. It doesn't matter if I'm slowing down from 15 mph or 55 mph.

I get the same effect, EVERY time.

I've put new pads/rotors on so that's not the problem.

I've considered draining the brake fluid and putting new fluid in.

I've considered replacing the two front ABS sensors.

I'm not getting an ABS light on the dash.

Check engine light has been on since I've owned it but the code says DPFE sensor.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

I know this problem very well cause I had the same.
This is a simple ABS problem (most probably the ABS sensors).
I've found that is totally useless and worthless to replace these sensors.
What I did to repair this problem, is that I simply remove the 60A ABS mega Fuse. The one who is under the hood (in the distributor box). That's it. Don't remove the one who is in the cockpit.

Now I don't have trouble with brake at all. But of course, the ABS doesn't work, cause it's disabled. But I don't care.

If you want to get rid of the ABS indicator lamp, just burn the ABS bulb, and it'll never show up.

I found that the ABS is one of the most useless device in a car.
It's made for people who don't know how to brake in snow/ice or rain.


About the DPFE sensor, you may simply have to replace it. I suggest you also to check the engine codes at least 3 times in a row. Plug/unplug scanner before. Sometimes, other code appears. You can also clear the codes, so the engine light will get out, but it will appears later.

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

Originally Posted by serge_saati

I know this problem very well cause I had the same.
This is a simple ABS problem (most probably the ABS sensors).
I've found that is totally useless and worthless to replace these sensors.
What I did to repair this problem, is that I simply remove the 60A ABS mega Fuse. The one who is under the hood (in the distributor box). That's it. Don't remove the one who is in the cockpit.

Now I don't have trouble with brake at all. But of course, the ABS doesn't work, cause it's disabled. But I don't care.

If you want to get rid of the ABS indicator lamp, just burn the ABS bulb, and it'll never show up.

I found that the ABS is one of the most useless device in a car.
It's made for people who don't know how to brake in snow/ice or rain.


About the DPFE sensor, you may simply have to replace it. I suggest you also to check the engine codes at least 3 times in a row. Plug/unplug scanner before. Sometimes, other code appears. You can also clear the codes, so the engine light will get out, but it will appears later.

I'd love to do that just to take care of the problem but then my conscience wouldn't let me sell the thing, knowing it has a potentially unsafe problem with it.

[zippy_LiL_SL1]

Originally Posted by Airjer_

I think replacing all the sensors is a shot in the dark and pretty uneconomical!

Not if I get them from a j/y!

[serge_saati]

Originally Posted by zippy_LiL_SL1

I'd love to do that just to take care of the problem but then my conscience wouldn't let me sell the thing, knowing it has a potentially unsafe problem with it.

In a lot of circumstances, driving with ABS is less secure that without ABS.
Especially when you brake suddenly in snow, the car will not stop in time.
You just have to tell the guy that you disable the system, and it may be happy.
My ABS is disabled, and I'm very happy like that.