need help!!!

[Nangnak]

I need help to tune my system...

i have:
HU alpine IVA-W202R
Processor alpine PXA-H701
Front speaker Hertz HSK163.3 3-way 16.5cm
Rear speaker Hertz HSK163.3 2-way 16.5cm
Sub crossfire XT2 12(sealed enclosure)
Amps:
Front speakers :Audison vrx 2.150 for mid range and tweeters
Audison vrx 2.250 for midbass
Orion 400.2 for rear speakers
crossfire vr1000d amp for sub


i've been playing around with the processor but cant get the sound right. need help!!!!

[PaulD]

how much have the guys on car audio helped ? what do you think you're real problems are ?

[Nangnak]

they've helped me with my crossover points with my amp gains..but i think i messed up with my gains on my front speakers amps..i have to crank the volume up to 30 on my Alpine HU to get a decent output(its kinda loud but i know it can produce much more). now im still having problems with my midbass, its not giving me enough. it might be design problem or even the gain on the amp powering the midbasses. today ive tried playing a movie but to my surprise the volume output is really low..i have to turn it up to 30 to even hear it at all..as you said its a LOT of stuff for a newbie but i really want to know how to control everything..would you know how much the voltage output would be on my audison amps if i were to use a DMM to adjust the gains?and if im using the crossover that comes with my 3 way system will it make any difference if i also use the processors crossover?i really dont like bright tweeters..so ive been trying to find a way to minimise the 's' sound from voices..is there any way at all to completely eliminate that sound whilst not affecting the quality of the sound...lastly do you think my system is good at all?coz on my other car ive installed a system consisting of jbl speakers and an old MB quartz sub(sealed) but they sounded better than in my first car..im guessing its my tuning thats causing this..so yeah i really need help...i see you're also using the processor..can u tell me how you set your system up(every eingle bit of it) and maybe i can try your settings and see how it does to my system...thanks!!!

[PaulD]

firstly, I have no rear speakers on either car

if you lack midbass, try going to the time correction screen and then to whichever channel you have the midbass hooked up and change one of the phases on either left or right channel.

Why do you want rear speakers ? If I were you I would do the following:

Ditch the rear speakers
Ditch the passive crossover to the HSK163.3

connect the VRx 2.150 to the tweeters
connect the VRx 2.250 to the midranges
connect the 400.2 to the midbass
leave the Vr1000D connected to the sub

from the H701 to the amps, do the following
front 1 to the tweeter amp (2.150)
front 2 to the midbass amp (orion 4.200)
rear to the midrange amp (4.250)
sub to the sub amp (Vr 1000D)

on the 701 control panel set the crossover channels of each Left & Right channel EXACTLY like this:
(I think you set it to Left & Right and it will do both channels at the same time, you will have to change it to Left OR Right later if you want to change levels of the left and right speakers independently).

Front 1 Hi pass = 3.2k
Slope = 24
lo pass = 20k
slope = off
level = -5 for now (hit enter again to get to page 2)

front 2 Hi Pass = 63 Hz
slope = 24
Lo Pass = 315 Hz
Slope = 24
level = -5

Rear Hi Pass = 315 Hz
Slope = 24
Lo pass = 3.2k Hz
Slope = 24
Level = -5

Sub Hi Pass = 20
Slope = off
Lo Pass = 63
Slope = 24
Level = -5

This will give you a good start, I set the levels to -5 dB on every channel so you have the ability to raise or lower the levels for each channel to balance them out.

Do you have access to an RTA of some type ?

[Nangnak]

Rear Hi Pass = 63 Hz
Slope = 24
Lo pass = 315 Hz
Slope = 24
Level = -5

why do you set the midrange crossovers like that?wont i have a 'gap' between the frequencies between the tweets and the midranges?and wont i have overlapping between the midrange and the midbass?nope i dont have any RTA...i still want my rear speaker to work..can i power them off from my HU?i just want some fill from the rear end...and does it matter which amp i connect to either the front 1 or front 2 or rear?i mean just as long as i know which one goes to where right?there is another connection from the 701 i.e. centre(or additional sub) can i connect another amp there to power my rear speakers?im not trying to 'fight' or argue with you, im just hmm..merely expressing my thoughts...

[PaulD]

ok, I fixed the range for the rear output (mids)

I would set it up like that first and try to get it tuned. You can then wire up the rears to the headunit and see what happens. If you connect the rears to the center out of the H701 thru another amp, they will be mono - left chanel = right channel.

The way I did the amp connections to the H70 will give you the most flexibility when tuning. Font1 is designed for tweeters, if you connect the mids to front2 you will only have one EQ for both mids and tweets.

I don't take what you are saying as fighting, this is a complex box you are trying to wire up and tune. Even I make mistakes with it sometimes. I only learned it had bass focus and what it does like 2-3 weeks ago.

[Nangnak]

so i will set the x-overs for the midrange as you said?i'm gona wire up the components tomorrow and will tell you the results!!that's one more thing i would like to know..the bass focus..what does it do really?it seems complicated to me..do i also need to mess around with that to tune my system?one more thing, the orion amp for the midbasses do i set the filters there or do i just let it bypass(not really sure what it says on that amp). i also changed one of the phases for the midbass, it does help..i can hear it more now..but i think i still have to adjust the gain going to the midbasses..thanks!!!

[PaulD]

The bass focus will adjust the time alignment of any two speakers simultaneously

Yes, I changed the lo pass and hi pass freq numbers in my post to what I really meant it to be the first time.

Set all of the filters on all of the amps to 0 or off, the H701 is taking care of that.

[Nangnak]

havent done the mods yet..too busy with work..but will post when its done.

[PaulD]

yea, sometimes work gets in the away of the important stuff

[Nangnak]

finally done the mods..ive followed your crossover settings, but i dont know...i think i have to set up my gains again...ive got a few questions here tho..on the audison amps..on toip of the amplifier there are some settings that you can change i.e. balance IN, balance OUT, line noise supressor (on/off),Level x3(H=0.15/1.5v, L=0.5/5V), Fe filter going from 40-500hz(dunno if the bypass will effect this), He power out phase(either 180 or 0)...my midbass seems that its not thumping as much as before...im gona check the amp again later..the midrange is jumping too much...when i go to the processor page and go to speaker select, when i switch the front 2(going to midbass) off the mid range is not jumping as much and the midbass is totally off...but when i switch it back on the midrange is going crazy and my midbass is not giving any bass at all...what did i do wrong here?on my orion amp, there is not bypass or off selector for the crossover so i put it to full or should i put it to low pass?:bang head:

[PaulD]

You raise or lower the gain or level setting a bit if you started with all of them on -5. Balance should be a left/right adjustment, line noise supressor hel.ps with alternator whine (if you have it), bypass should negate the filters, leave the phase at 0 - use the H701 time correction mode for setting phase adjustments.

On the H701, go to the time correction mode and select front2 right. Change the phase to 180 and see if it helps the midbass.

After looking at your biggest complaint, make SURE you ave the crossover settings exactly right, the right amps are connected to the right speakers and the right amps are connected to the correct outputs on the H701.

Audison level - 0.15 means it will take very little output from the H701 to drive it to full power. Try setting both Audison amps to 5V, you're H701 can put out 4V.

[Nangnak]

found the problem with my lacking midbass and jumping midrange...got the wrong cables going to the 701..LoL..ive set everything up and tested it just now..sounds reasonable needs tweeking abit more...n ive blown the cover ring on my sub...i tested the sub on 20hz and full volume...but its still ok though...which would you say is better..the graphical or parametric equaliser?how do u adjust the bass focus?ive tried connecting my rear speakers to the HU but i have no idea how to control the rear speakers from the HU..tried looking but cant find it..so ive disconnected it..

[Nangnak]

PaulD: both my audison amps have HL12 Crossover Module. HL12 is an active crossover module with continuous adjustment of cut-off frequency on the following ranges: 40-500Hz/400-5000Hz and with 12 dB/Oct. slope. The module has a pre output (with balanced/unbalanced switch), cut-off frequency adjustment, phase inverter (0/180degrees. HL12
adds one ABS PRE output to the amplifier it is installed into(my cables from the 701 arent connected to this).Even when i bypass this crossover, when i tweek the cutoff frequency it still has an effect on my speakers..i dont understand what is going on here..does this mean that i have to set the xover frequnecy on the amp and also on the 701?

[PaulD]

well, I typed up a nice response, only to have it blanked by the computer .... when will I ever learn to save EVERY post more than a sentence before hitting post.

Graphic is easier than parametric unless you really know what you are doing. I think you can only use one of the other.

Bass focus - is entered thru the time correction mode. You pick wich pair of speakers and it adjust the time delay for both at the same time.

I will have to look at my W205 manual to see how to get both Ai net and headunit amp to work together.

Is there some way to remove the HL12 modules or turn them off ? I have never owned an Audison amp, so I am a little in the dark right now. Maybe you could post a pic or two on here so I could at least see the module.