h22/h23 turbocharging question...

[iceiso]

posted this in the prelude section but i guess not many ppl frequent that board...

right now, i'm saving up for a h22a engine into my accord. i want to keep all my options open for the future for potential (which is why i didn't just turbocharge my f22 for power). i have heard that h23's are better for turbocharging. what is the difference between the two engines, and why is it better for turbocharging? what are the specs of each N/A, and what kind of potential difference are we talking about here? which kind of turbo or turbo kit would be the best to get? any other related information would be very helpful. thanks for replies!

[TerryJoe]

the h22 is to high compression for the turbo, and isnt gonna be good at handling boost. how far are u wanting to go with your performance upgrades,whats your goal as to what u want out of your motor.
that readdy can determen your needs on what u do with the motor

my 2 cents

[drift]

Originally posted by TerryJoe
the h22 is to high compression for the turbo, and isnt gonna be good at handling boost. how far are u wanting to go with your performance upgrades,whats your goal as to what u want out of your motor.
that readdy can determen your needs on what u do with the motor

my 2 cents

H22A compression: 10.1:1
H23A compression: 9.8:1

not much difference, and can be evened out with a thicker headgasket.

the only reason why people praise the H23 on boost is the fact that they dont own an H22. as for competitive drag racing, the H22 is usually demodded to a non-vtec setup to support roller rockers. the VTEC design isnt required for drag racing as you dont need a shift bewteen "economy" and "performance" valve settings. this is the ONLY reason why drag racers dont "whoop" about VTEC.

so for a decent street machine, VTEC would be great for day to day driveability. for track only performance, it's not needed.

plus, starting a power build from a 200hp platform makes more power than starting with a platform of 160hp with equivalent modifications.

[crj_lll]

I kind of lost you, in the middle of your response. How would you take a VTEC and dial the VTEC engage point down to ZERO so that the car tran a more agressive profile at all times?

[drift]

Originally posted by crj_lll
I kind of lost you, in the middle of your response. How would you take a VTEC and dial the VTEC engage point down to ZERO so that the car tran a more agressive profile at all times?

no one said anything about dialing down VTEC.

it's a rocker assembly and cam swap for the Ferrea rocker system

[crj_lll]

when you swap that out, the H@@ will run the more aggressive profile the entire time? Where can I find this and how much do they run? Does this increase the overall torque and horsepower or will it crease the power band and rang of peak horsepower and torque. Please bare with me. Just learning this new technique.

[iceiso]

i'm trying to get around 300 (+/- 10)HP. what kind of boost should i be running? there's something i didn't really understand though...

i heard that when you build up your internals, your compression goes down and low compression w/o turbo=BAD. sooo, does that mean that i'll have to build up, and drop the turbo in at the same time?

could someone please verify/correct me, and explain? thanks!

[1320B4U]

You should choose Turbo or VTEC from the start. If you want to break into the 13's your gonna have to go turbo. I would buy an H23 block, blockguard it, some forged pistons(9:1 or less C/R), eagle forged rods are a good value, then you need a turbocharger and turbo manifold, full 3" exhaust, Front mount intercooler, BOV, some larger injectors(450cc+), fuel pump, ignition, various gauges(A/F, boost, egt, ...), and someway to control it all i.e. standalone, or various piggybacks. 20 lbs. of boost and you'll be gone(given you can find traction).
If you want 300 wheel horsepower the h22 isnt gonna get you there unless you do a turbo rebuild (lower C/R), so why not start with a cheaper block and not have the VTEC mess as drift stated. I think if VTEC was engaged all the time the car would run like crap down low and get horrid gas mileage. Ive heard VTEC with high boost is not good because the higher lift duration of the cams lets the boost pressure blow by or something similar to that.

My $.02

[drift]

Originally posted by 1320B4U
You should choose Turbo or VTEC from the start. If you want to break into the 13's your gonna have to go turbo. I would buy an H23 block, blockguard it, some forged pistons(9:1 or less C/R), eagle forged rods are a good value, then you need a turbocharger and turbo manifold, full 3" exhaust, Front mount intercooler, BOV, some larger injectors(450cc+), fuel pump, ignition, various gauges(A/F, boost, egt, ...), and someway to control it all i.e. standalone, or various piggybacks. 20 lbs. of boost and you'll be gone(given you can find traction).
If you want 300 wheel horsepower the h22 isnt gonna get you there unless you do a turbo rebuild (lower C/R), so why not start with a cheaper block and not have the VTEC mess as drift stated. I think if VTEC was engaged all the time the car would run like crap down low and get horrid gas mileage. Ive heard VTEC with high boost is not good because the higher lift duration of the cams lets the boost pressure blow by or something similar to that.

My $.02

H23 doesnt need a blockguard. it's a solid deck.

to handle 20+ psi, both H22 and H23 will need iron sleeves. they both come stock with FRM.

with all the shit you mentioned doing to the H23, you follow it up with, "the h22 isnt going to get you there unless you do a turbo rebuild". all the shit you listed for the H23 is what you normally do to ANY motor for turbo strengthening.

so either way, according to you, it would just as expensive for either one... but at least with the H22, you start off with 200hp instead of 160hp. 40 more hp towards a goal of 300 sounds like a deal to me.

overlap can be an issue with VTEC, but that can be dialed out with cam gears on a stock cam, or grinding of the lobes on a performance cam. and both ways will not mess with lift... just lobe degree to reduce duration, but it will increase ramp speeds, requiring a head build.

[civickiller]

theres a reason why these big name racers dont use the h22a.

i read something about the h22a having really thin cylinder sleeves

[drift]

Originally posted by civickiller
theres a reason why these big name racers dont use the h22a.

i read something about the h22a having really thin cylinder sleeves

steph papadakis doesnt use the H22?

actually, it's cuz if they drop an H22 into a civic, they're forced to run outlaw class or pro class, depending on the sanctioning body, due to certain frame and suspension requirements to work efficiently. most of them cant afford to stay in outlaw as they dont have as much financial backing as steph and the AEM/Greddy team.

the apexi Drag Integra also had a highly modified H22.


as for the cylinder sleeves, that doesnt become an issue once it's reseeved.

[iceiso]

aaaaaalright, been doing alot of research around and i've learned alot since the first post.

it's still not final, but i've shifted my interests towards a h23. slightly larger displacement, and no vtec to mess with.

i think i'm going to get a higher mileage h23 for cheaper, and build it up again. w/h22a, i would eventually need a vtec controller, more tuning...more $$$ and i would need to replace so many parts that it would seem like a waste...

alright, i have some more questions now though...

where a reputable place to buy an h23 from? hmotorsonline only has the longblock.

will hondata stage II work on both h22a and h23a? the h22a has so much more support, it seems. i looked on the prelude section and the fastest prelude there is a fully built h23, which was kinda how i decided...i can spend more of the money building, rather than tuning something i spent so much money to have (vtec).

is this incoherent? it's 3 am and i'm tired, hahaha. thanks for replies!

[grrrr]

i like this link..... http://d1profiles.tripod.com/walter.htm#turbo
i just only wish they would tell alot more about it. but 10lbs boost fully stock... i guess thats not bad.

[iceiso]

ooo, 10 pounds. that's pretty nice. has anyone found a good place to buy this motor?

also, why exactly is the h22a 40 HP more than the h23a. is it because of the higher redline and vtec? also, how much would a computer like hondata raise redline? i can probably live without vtec since i'll have a turbo, but a 6500 redline is too similar to the accord i already have! lol.

do i need to resleeve my block? what are some good choices for ignition, and fuel system upgrades?

w/forged rods, pistons, 450CC injectors, fuel pump, ignition, and proper management, around how much boost is possible? is there anything that i didn't add that would be creating a bottleneck for more boost?

[iceiso]

oh yeah, 9.0:1 compression pistons.