Quick question cleaning EGR ports on '99

[Windywoes]

I plan to clean the EGR ports on my '99 3.8L. Do I need any replacement parts if I am just removing the upper plenum? I searched this, but could not find a definite answer for my year. Thanks in advance!

[northern piper]

If you're careful you may be able to reuse the gasket although I'm not 100% sure it's labeled as re-usable. A loose gasket here will allow tons of vac leaks which you don't want. I personally would be replacing it


P

[12Ounce]

I would consider them reusable ... tho I never have reused them that I remember. A good cleaning and lubing with Vaseline would be in order. Do not be tempted to overtighten the screws and bolts during reassembly.

The last time I did this task, I changed all those upper "screws" (14 of them?) into "studs and nuts" ... by inserting 45mm long (6x1mm) screws from underneath.

[Windywoes]

BTW, Lately I have noticed quite a bit of oil in the PCV to throttle body line. In fact, I was surprised how much oil dripped out of the throttle body nipple when I pulled the hose off. I guess I need an accumulator to catch the excess. This after getting the re-designed valve cover. Does anyone think this oil situation could cause my Windy's hiccup when going up a hill in 4th gear at low RPM?

[12Ounce]

It is "normal" for crankcase oil to be pulled into the intake air stream. Please don't do anything to hamper ... unless you prefer a dirty crankcase.

But, "yes", because of a sloppy design of the upper intake ... the oil is allowed to drip down onto the EGR jets and they plug up ... causing uneven running .... and requiring occassional cleaning.

I have "redone" my intake manifold, sealing around the six air horns ... where they connect to the intake spacer to prevent this plugging phenom. But the rework's more trouble (probably) than its worth. (But I do enjoy a great running engine!)

Of course, there are many other things that can cause a chugging engine.

[wiswind]

I added a "catch can" on my '96.
In the winter (here in Wisconsin) I get a LOT of fluid in the can.
In the summer, I don't get much.....still get oil in the intake, though maybe less.

I located the "can" up front, in between the antifreeze overflow bottle and the tall neck for the windshield washer fluid.
I have LONG hoses that slope down to the can from the firwall......going over to the PCV valve and line (which on my '96 is in the rear valve cover, driver's side).

I have seen air compressor air "separator/filter" cans used as well as a few other things.
I personally prefer the large dead air space that a large catch can provides.....

As 12ounce mentions it is VERY IMPORTANT to maintain the healthy PCV flow to pull harmful vapors out of the crankcase.
Reducing this flow will cause more problems than you solve.

[Windywoes]

Thanks for the advice on the PCV situation. I was not pleased to know that much oil could be drawn into the intake. It just didn't seem "healthy". But one problem at a time.

[bdahl385]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

<snip>

But, "yes", because of a sloppy design of the upper intake ... the oil is allowed to drip down onto the EGR jets and they plug up ... causing uneven running .... and requiring occassional cleaning.
<snip>

12ounce / Wiswind and other sages of the beast that is the Windstar machine... I have a very basic question on the whole EGR port cleaning that I've never seen answered in acceptable detail - at least for me, lol.

I followed the excellent Leckemby website last August to do the isolator bolt TSB replacement (http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html). While in there, I naturally cleaned those EGR ports as everyone advised should be done. My worst one looked about like the super close up Leckemby has on their site, about 15% blockage by area.

Here's my question - what exactly do you do to clean the port? I simply used a small pick and little vacuum cleaner attachment to loosen/suck up the soft gooey black crud around the hole. It seemed there should be more to it than just that. Do you ream something down the tube to clean the entire length or is the end the only concern?

Please let me know what you do when you clean your EGR ports. TIA.

[12Ounce]

When mine needed cleaning, I did much the same as you ... I may have use a drill bit. The jets (steel inserts) aren't very deep/long ... only 1/4" or so.

[wiswind]

I got really involved with this on my '96 3.8L......removed the EGR valve....flushed out the complete passages.....replaced the EGR valve....(was trying to track down a slight miss......which became very easy to locate once it finally got bad enough to light the CEL.....and I found that is was a simple dirty fuel injector).

So....in short.....the crud (in my case) was ONLY right at the port.....so when you do as you listed......you cleaned the problem.
Only a VERY light, dry carbon deposit was to be found elsewhere in the system.....no buildup at all.

Going back to the post about the '99 3.8L.
The isolator bolt TSB also addresses a problem with the baffel in the FRONT valve cover....at the PCV valve location.
The 1999 3.8L has a improved valve cover with the better baffel available (silver), reducing the amount of oil drawn in through the PCV valve.
The ORIGINAL (black) one from the factory had the bad one.
Again, as I stated, it is NORMAL for some oil to come in......with a properly working, updated, PCV system with the correct baffel.
However, you might want to make sure that the updated baffel is present on your 1999.
The factory replacement is silver, not black as the OEM original was.
I completely forgot about this when I was rambling on earlier.

[12Ounce]

Originally Posted by Windywoes

.... I was not pleased to know that much oil could be drawn into the intake. It just didn't seem "healthy". ....

It could well be that it is surprisingly just the opposite. A small stream of oil induced into the intake air may help with upper cylinder lubrication. So it may be quite "healthy" ... until the EGR jets get plugged.

When I remember to do it, I add a couple ounces of fresh motor oil to each fill-up of fuel. This helps with upper cyl lube and injector lube. ( Or ... I think so.)

[bdahl385]

Thanks for the info 12Ounce and Wiswind, I guess I was thinking it was more complicated than it really is.

[Windywoes]

After having to grind the heads off two bolts I finally got up the upper plenum cover off. What I found inside was a little scary: puddles of motor oil, EGR ports about 60% clogged on average (worst were on passenger side), oil puddles in all the lower plenum bolt areas, heavy accumulation of crud on butterfly valves toward passenger side, heavy accumulation of oil and crud on main throttle plate and bore.

I have been using Simple Green Max to clean up the junk. It works excellent I must say. Not as volatile and harmful as carb cleaner.

Now I am about ready to put it all back together now that lunch break is over. I will give you a run report later.

[bdahl385]

Have you verified that you have the new design valve cover installed on your Windstar? The baffle plate on the new one is supposed to suppress the amount of fluid (oil) pulled into the intake by covering a hole directly below the PCV valve.

Also I would look at the PCV valve itself. What brand / age is it? Others have posted to use only OEM on this as some after market ones (read China) allow too much air through the orifice which could allow that extra oil you are seeing. Especially if in combination with the old valve cover.

GLTY.

[Windywoes]

It is the re-designed valve cover: not painted and with a baffle plate. I am embarrassed to say it is the original PCV so it is Motorcraft. I will get a new part and also plan to install an in-line oil separator to try and pull some of the oil out of the flow stream. I guess I do not have any issues with a lack of upper cylinder lubrication, do I?

Just drove Windy and I could not get her to miss or buck plus she has much improved low RPM response. I am guardedly optimistic she is feeling better.

Thanks