I won't say I told you so....

[thegladhatter]

It appears that many are wishing they'd been more intelligent in their votes of November. You can't blame the republicans.

[Strider Negro]

Then what would you do differently? For what has been seen most if not all of the republicans vote against anything Obama suggests. It's not his fault for things being the way they are, if anything the blame can be equally divided among all of us the public for even allowing Bush in to power. When Clinton was President the unemployment rate was actually at an all time low.

It's amazing that most people disapprove of Obama when all that I can see is his desire to get out of the recession as humanly possible.

[MagicRat]

Virtually ALL elected politicians, especially those with a higher profile lose popularity as they get well into their term. Journalists occasionally refer to this pattern as the end of the honeymoon.
This pattern with Obama is normal and for the most part, expected. It has little realistic bearing on his valuation.

[ExoticSpotting]

Originally Posted by Strider Negro

It's amazing that most people disapprove of Obama when all that I can see is his desire to get out of the recession as humanly possible.

The democrats are just using the recession as a cover and an excuse to shove through needless spending and pet projects.

They couldn't care less about the economy.

[thegladhatter]

It serves their Marxist ideas well.

[drunken monkey]

And yet the Dow Jones closed up 114 points from Friday and is up 1000 points since the beginning of the month.
Looks like his Marxist ways is doing a good job of saving your country's economy.
Of course, you're going to say that he has nothing to do with the rise in your country's stock.

[thegladhatter]

Its anti-American to take from those who have earned and give to those who have not.

[drunken monkey]

But it's Christian.
Isn't being Christian a good thing?



Let me get this right.
Mass capitalist growth, dumbass lending to people who shouldn't have been leant money so those with money can make more money = good.

Inevitable happens; whole thing goes bang, global economy suffers.

New President steps in, does what he thinks is right, your economy recovers = bad?

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

But it's Christian.

Umm, no.

It's Christian to give it willingly and gladly, not to have it taken from you whether you like it or not. That's called theft. Some citizens feel that taxes are a form of theft and have even gone as far to say they are unconstitutional.

However, many would say that we must "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." Many of the caesars in history were tyrannical maniacs and Rome's infrastructure became far too large and too tax hungry to support.

Whether the economy recovers remains to be seen. We watch and wait, and hope we keep our jobs.

[drunken monkey]

isn't it un-Christian to not want to help those with less than yourself?

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by drunken monkey

isn't it un-Christian to not want to help those with less than yourself?

It depends. There are passages in scripture that also say that "if a man will not work, he will not eat." That's a paraphrase, of course.

I think that it's up to the individual to decide how best to accomplish charitable activity. It's considered bad stewardship of resources to throw money down a rat hole, and many would consider wasteful government programs some of the biggest rat holes in history.

Besides, as many on this forum are quick to point out, our government is not a Christian government. I agree. Its goals and purpose for those programs are not designed to advance the cause of Christianity. Far from it. They are designed to develop dependency upon the State for one's every need.

Personally, I think Christians should want to help their neighbors, but it's not up to the State to make them do it.

[drunken monkey]

I only mentioned Christianity because of the close links between the Republican party, the right wing politics of your country in general and your country's inherent ties with being Christian.

I just found it quite interesting that a person who would call themselves a Republican (and by association a Christian?) would criticise what I see as a rather noble (and Christian) effort to aid poorer people.

But again, this isn't a new topic, nor is it one with any easy solutions.

Two things

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

It's considered bad stewardship of resources to throw money down a rat hole, and many would consider wasteful government programs some of the biggest rat holes in history.

What in particular are you talking about.
Being on the other side of the proverbial pond, we don't get much detail of proposed plans or the wider impact it would have on your country.

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Its goals and purpose for those programs are not designed to advance the cause of Christianity. Far from it. They are designed to develop dependency upon the State for one's every need.

I find this perhaps a bit cynical.
Why can't it be because he just wants to help people (and the country) in general? I really don't understand why Obama is seen by some as to be some sort of great evil scheming destroyer of the world.
And again, what programs are you talking about?


Finally:

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Personally, I think Christians should want to help their neighbors, but it's not up to the State to make them do it.

I'd agree with you here except that any government also has a responsibilty to all the people, not just the more priviledged. And isn't that what taxes are for; to pay for things that would benefit the country?

[03cavPA]

Well, the republican party may have gotten into bed with some of the more reactionary Christian groups in this country, but that's on them. This country hasn't had a government that could be called Christian for years, but that's my opinion.

I'm not a republican. I haven't been for a long time. I registered Independent in the late 70's and never looked back.

The rat holes I refer to are many government programs that suffer from serious cost over runs, wasteful spending practices, and general mismanagement. Some suffer from a decided lack of accountability to the taxpayers who pay the bills. Pork is rampant in most pieces of legislation, designed to do little more than garner votes in the next election.

Surely you have similar problems in the UK? You yourself referenced the subprime loan debacle that nearly cost us our version of civilization. There were a couple of "minor" govt. agencies affectionately known as Fannie and Freddie that had some involvement in that economic skirmish in the War on Poverty. It may be our ultimate undoing yet. I'm not a corporate apologist, either. I don't care for the mortgage industry's involvement in what could be called "money changing", to use a biblical phrase.

I make no apologies for my cynicism. Many cynics end up that way through observation of the events and people around them. History is a good teacher, especially when you've observed it first hand. It's purely a matter of personal perspective, but we've all been there.

However, I think it is our responsibility as humans and neighbors to help each other, rather than rely on the government to do it. Governments by nature exist to control, rather than help. Human beings elected to privileged positions generally succumb to the intoxicating effects of power and just can't help themselves.